Is there a need for consoles?

[sabre0001]

I have been reading many articles lately about the Next Generation consoles and I am starting to wonder if there is a need for consoles any more...Consoles to me have always been about casual gamers and sports fans; People who like simplicity rather than dealing with some of the complications of the PC...

But lately, there has been a shift. I am reading articles about consoles with the ability to connect with friends miles away, play games against worldwide competitors, rip music, stream music and more...Isn't this what a PC has been doing for years now?! Also, consoles are starting to lose their simplicity focus with upgradable parts and Hard drives and releasing keyboards and mice to use...

So what is the point of all this...In my opinion the only console out there that is worthwhile if you don't want a PC is a Wii because at least that is innovative...

What do others think of this matter. Are consoles trying to imitate...or replace...And could this ever happen? Will we all one day be struggling with analog sticks while trying to jiggle up and left a little to get that precious headshot?!

edit: I am 1337!

 

[-Psy-]

Don't remind me of hard it is to play Halo 2 on the Xbox D:

You have a point though especially with the 360 and PS3. They are becoming to complicated for the people they are aimed at.

They should focus more on getting developers on-board then just adding random crap like HD-DVD and Blueray.

 

[Axyon]

I definitely think it's the other way round - is there a need for PCs for gaming any more? I can tell you now I'm certainly not as motivated to upgrade my graphics card or CPU for the same price of simply buying a console, and playing on that without having to endure recommended specs, CTDs, more bugs etc. These days I get far more out of my 360 than playing PC games.

 

[Hectic Glenn]

When consoles have messenger programmes, large music storage (like 360 i think?) and downloadable mods and things from a fanbase i will consider them equal, knowing the hardware's capabilities are equal on every machine. Otherwise PCs are superior.

 

[-Psy-]

I definitely think it's the other way round - is there a need for PCs for gaming any more? I can tell you now I'm certainly not as motivated to upgrade my graphics card or CPU for the same price of simply buying a console, and playing on that without having to endure recommended specs, CTDs, more bugs etc. These days I get far more out of my 360 than playing PC games.

But that's a benefit. Being able to have the option to upgrade your PC to play the latest games is a good thing. Unlike the consoles, you just can't do the same...

Also, PC's are more practical as a gaming machine.

You can play games, yes but you can also use MSN Messenger, browse the internet, post on these forums and the list goes on.

Don't forget that PC's will always be technically better then any console.

 

[sabre0001]

The one thing that PC gaming has above them though has to be the mouse...
And e-sports is growing on a scale that will only be possible on a PC.

 

[Axyon]

But that's a benefit. Being able to have the option to upgrade your PC to play the latest games is a good thing. Unlike the consoles, you just can't do the same...

Also, PC's are more practical as a gaming machine.

You can play games, yes but you can also use MSN Messenger, browse the internet, post on these forums and the list goes on.

Don't forget that PC's will always be technically better then any console.

They won't always be, there's no doubt that next generation or the generation after that will do everything you list, plus have upgrade functionality. The difference between the Xbox/PS2 and PC wasn't too huge when they first released, it only took a few months for PC games to catch up. Here we are nearly 1 year after the 360 launched and the 360's technology and games still outclass most of what the PC can offer.

 

[CptStern]

think of it this way ..consoles have always been a means of delivering gaming to the mass market

a direct comparison would be that it's like TV in the entertainment industry ..or prepared food compared to home cooked

 

[sabre0001]

Here we are nearly 1 year after the 360 launched and the 360's technology and games still outclass most of what the PC can offer.

I have to disagree there...The PC surpasses consoles for FPSs for ease of use as I mentioned above and look at some of the titles in development. Only on PC is Spore being released as it should be played. Look at some of the opportunities on offer with the likes of Portal and Prey. In addition to this PC users constantly mod games with some amazing releases!!!

The only thing lacking is sports games in which we get the short end of the deal at times and some soccer games are visibly geared towards consoles (Pro Evo soccer for example displays some of the commands in terms of the PS2 controller!)

 

[VictimOfScience]

We will always need consoles.

We will also need PCs.

That is, of course, unless MS creates a Windows-like monopoly on console development environments with XNA, in which case, eventually it won't matter if you have a PC or console--they will have the same games and the same functionality.

This scenario sucks imho because I am partial to getting a specific gaming fix from consoles like the NES, SNES, PS2, etc and a different gaming fix from my PCs. Plus, PCs make it so much easier to create your own games and applications and share them with the rest of the world at the drop of a hat. When coding (productivity) apps and games on consoles becomes the norm, then maybe the end of PCs as we know them will be nigh. Until then, there should always be a distinction between consoles and PCs, but unfortunately, that does not appear to be the road down which we are heading...:|

 

[sabre0001]

So you think that the new service that Microsoft are planning to release ("The Developers Club") is the beginning of the end...The only saving grace is that the games created are supposedly cross-platform and could run on both PC and X-Box.

 

[Solver]

Eh, the eternal debate. Personally, I now have no desire to own a console - I'd much rather spend extra money on PC upgrades, which I in fact recently did. There's undeniably demand for consoles, but they're certainly not what I need/like because:

- Consoles are supposed to be hooked up to a TV for better image quality, etc. I barely ever watch TV, and don't have a HDTV or indeed any really good TV - my monitor is way better.

- Consoles can't and will never properly run my favorite games. I'm a strategy game fan, Civilization in particular. These games usually don't get console versions, or get them years later - and playing them with a controller, even when possible, is way awkward.

- Vice versa, consoles don't have any games I want that don't exist for the PC. This is a matter of personal gaming preference.

- I can't stand playing a game if I can't poke around its files. Consoles don't let you do that. With a console, you can't look at the data files, you can't change the configuration files, etc. You can just play. I understand that this is what many people want, but that's unacceptable to me.

- Another big one for me, consoles don't have the power of user-created mods. These days, there are more and more games that have modding features of some kind. I'm not willing to give up on those - indeed, there are games for which mods greatly increase their lifespan. HL games included.

I always try my best to be objective, but I am having a hard time thinking of a reason why consoles are better. Although I imagine they're better for people who want to play a game, no ends attached, nothing else required. Again, there's probably a good reason why console sales are good.

 

[ríomhaire]

I think of consoles (mainly) for games that you play with other people in the same room but there are of course benfits to joypad > keyboard + mouse for some types of games.

 

[sabre0001]

There is one thing that bothers me about PC games and that is that split screen is often overlooked! Therefore some of our multiplayer ability is shortened even though racing games work just as well split screen as consoles do...

And as ríomhaire pointed out, PCs do have the capacity for extra controllers too! We have missed out on light guns and plastic guitars for no reason!

 

[Lucid]

Consoles to me were always about having something to play with a friend.
It's usually a pain in the ass to play on the computer with more than one person.

Yet with a console, you just pick up controllers and have a ball.

 

[Solver]

Well, that makes the rather interesting assumption that you have a friend .

 

[Beerdude26]

The console will always be a derivative from computers.

 

[-Psy-]

They won't always be, there's no doubt that next generation or the generation after that will do everything you list, plus have upgrade functionality. The difference between the Xbox/PS2 and PC wasn't too huge when they first released, it only took a few months for PC games to catch up. Here we are nearly 1 year after the 360 launched and the 360's technology and games still outclass most of what the PC can offer.

Yes, but you have to take in consideration the fact that each generation lasts around 5 years. By then, technology for PC's will have advanced by far.

 

[Cole]

I definitely think it's the other way round - is there a need for PCs for gaming any more? I can tell you now I'm certainly not as motivated to upgrade my graphics card or CPU for the same price of simply buying a console, and playing on that without having to endure recommended specs, CTDs, more bugs etc. These days I get far more out of my 360 than playing PC games.

Yes but as time rolls i'm sure eventually there will be upgradeable parts for consoles. Eventually becoming a personal computer.

 

[-Psy-]

But that would destroy the whole point of consoles.

Your supposed to get a console with the knowledge that they will play all the games that are released for it.

Adding upgrades would be completely stupid.

 

[Warbie]

Is there a need for consoles?

*takes a look at the majority of the greatest games around*

Of course there is.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

I don't understand why poeple hate PC/console so much. I have a 360, had a PS2, am intending to get a Wii, yet I still love PC. WTF is the big deal?

Is there a need for consoles?

*takes a look at the majority of the greatest games around*

Of course there is.

QFT

 

[Stigmata]

This is like asking if Volkswagens are necessary in an age where Ferraris can be purchased.

Of course they are. PCs are awesome, sure, but to get comparable performance, you usually have to triple the price over the newest console system. And that's if you're building the PC yourself. PCs have great games (Half-life, System Shock, Starcraft), sure, but so do consoles (Halo, Super Smash Bros. Melee, Legend of Zelda). Consoles aren't always for "casual" gamers, or whatever you care to call people who play consoles. I just bought myself a high-end PC, but I still play Xbox360, Gamecube, and even SNES from time to time.

The fact of the matter is, one game is not necessarily inferior to another simply because it's played with a gamepad on a machine without Internet Explorer on it. Each platform has its pros and cons, and each has its own distinct legacy of great games, and a plethora of shitty games to go along with each. If the PC were truly "better" than consoles, consoles would be dead in the water, and all the good games would be on PC.

For the record, I own PC, Xbox, Xbox360, Gamecube, N64, SNES, Gameboy, Nintendo DS, and I plan on getting a Wii as soon as possible.

 

[Axyon]

Yes, but you have to take in consideration the fact that each generation lasts around 5 years. By then, technology for PC's will have advanced by far.

Like what? 5 years ago, we had XP just releasing, older video cards, processsors, memory. I must have missed this revolutionary feature that seems to pop up for the PC every 5 years.

 

[-Psy-]

Heh. Compare a PC back then to Today. Is the performance a hell of a lot better? Yesh.

 

[lePobz]

PCs and consoles are merging anyway - The media centre PC and the Media HUB features of next gen consoles are one and the same. Consoles are a lot easier and better value than having a PC, specially if you only want it for gaming.

Price up a tri-core 3.2ghz gaming PC with an ATI X1900XTX or whatever the equivalent of the 360 gfx chipset is - I guarantee it'll be a bit more expensive than the £210 you can get a 360 for.

Some people don't like PCs. They'd rather sit on a sofa than at a desk. Consoles are simple and easy - and I think they'll always serve a purpose.

 

[Solver]

Like what? 5 years ago, we had XP just releasing, older video cards, processsors, memory. I must have missed this revolutionary feature that seems to pop up for the PC every 5 years.

Transform and lighting? Pixel shaders? Vertex shaders?

 

[Axyon]

Heh. Compare a PC back then to Today. Is the performance a hell of a lot better? Yesh.

Heh. So, in my post where I said that consoles will eventually be upgradeable, you counter that by saying PCs will have the advantage because they are upgradeable. Well done.

Transform and lighting? Pixel shaders? Vertex shaders?

All of which an Xbox can do right now.

 

[Cole]

Like what? 5 years ago, we had XP just releasing, older video cards, processsors, memory. I must have missed this revolutionary feature that seems to pop up for the PC every 5 years.

Well with PC's we got .Net really rising. .Net will allow for much more stable programs and allowing them to be created much faster with the same speed as current day programs.

We are moving onto a Unifed Pixel and Vertex shader system. There have been many major impacts in Graphic Cards. Way to many to list. We have a upcoming Geometry shader in Dx10 allowing for much faster peformance especially with new Texture Arrays(Also DX10).

USB has really taken off. This has made a MAJOR impact from personal to business.

We will soon, with Vista, be able to use this and flash memory, through USB, as a cache system to get files very quickly into the ram. This allows for VERY quick load times and alt-tabbing to desktop.

CPU's have massively improved. I mean 5 years ago we had how fast of processors? Now we have processors that are not only many times faster but also many times more efficent. In another five years who knows where we will be at? Who can even imagine how much faster they will be.

CPU's have opened up Physics and Physics have and look promising to change gameplay for the better.

OpenGL and Direct3D have easily taken over as the main graphic API's and have vastly improved from 5 years ago.

Creative has pushed the EAX API and allowed for a very immersive sound experince.

I mean minus the Wii the only thing that has really changed with Consoles would be speed and data storing and price. Consoles are costing higher and higher every generation. PC's have been costing less and less.


Now Consoles do serve a purpose. They serve a purpose as an affordable game machine. The PC serves as a Game machine, Game Development System, communication system, and information system. The main problem PC's have is price. Because the PC is also a game development system this allows for free mods and level content. If the PC went on a sudden decline as a Game Machine, it would probably have a sudden decline in mod\level content. If the PC looses that then there wont be anymore people to hire for games because there will be a bigger lack in skills. Now who will write games for Pc's and Consoles's?

Not only that but without Pc Gaming, Console Gaming wouldn't be able to push graphics nearly as much as they can. Because the PC is a birthplace of technology and ideas in Software and Hardware. So if you have no one to buy your new high end processors and graphic cards that utilize new ideas and technology...then you wont be making them. If those aren't made then the ideas and technology are lost. Consoles then can't use these new ideas and technology and thus there will be a much less of an impact every console generation.

Without PC Gaming, Console Gaming would die.

Heh. So, in my post where I said that consoles will eventually be upgradeable, you counter that by saying PCs will have the advantage because they are upgradeable. Well done.

And if a console is eventually upgradeable, you will probably be able to write your own applications for it to.
Then it is a PC. A PC = Personal Computer. A console is a form of a computer. By allowing itself to be upgradeable and allowing people to write there own applications they will become a Personal Computer.

All of which an Xbox can do right now.

And the Xbox can do those because they were invented for the PC. If they were never invented, it would not have them!

 

[Solver]

All of which an Xbox can do right now.

You could say so, but an Xbox won't do DX9-shaders, and it has less pixel pipelines than any modern video card. Shaders on PC may not have been new by themselves, but the actual capability of PCs to do shading exceeded that of the Xbox soon enough.

 

[DeusExMachina]

I like my consoles. When I get a job and can pay for upgrades and parts, I'll like my PC as well.

 

[Axyon]

We are moving onto a Unifed Pixel and Vertex shader system. There have been many major impacts in Graphic Cards. Way to many to list. We have a upcoming Geometry shader in Dx10 allowing for much faster peformance especially with new Texture Arrays(Also DX10).
CPU's have massively improved. I mean 5 years ago we had how fast of processors? Now we have processors that are not only many times faster but also many times more efficent. In another five years who knows where we will be at? Who can even imagine how much faster they will be.

CPU's have opened up Physics and Physics have and look promising to change gameplay for the better.

I took the liberty of removing everything that was completely and utterly unrelated to the matter at hand. Barring the point in hand that new-generation consoles have the functionality listed above (yes, the 360 does have limited DX10 support), you've missed the point that I was trying to make (upgrade functionality in future generations), yet attempted to address it later on.

I mean minus the Wii the only thing that has really changed with Consoles would be speed and data storing and price. Consoles are costing higher and higher every generation. PC's have been costing less and less.

Completely wrong. The Playstation, Playstation 2 and Xbox all cost more than the Xbox 360 core at release. It still costs the same amount to buy a brand new top-of-the-line graphics card and to pick up a brand new console.

Now Consoles do serve a purpose. They serve a purpose as an affordable game machine. The PC serves as a Game machine, Game Development System, communication system, and information system. The main problem PC's have is price. Because the PC is also a game development system this allows for free mods and level content. If the PC went on a sudden decline as a Game Machine, it would probably have a sudden decline in mod\level content. If the PC looses that then there wont be anymore people to hire for games because there will be a bigger lack in skills. Now who will write games for Pc's and Consoles's?

This is absolute guff, you're just mindlessly rambling here. Although you do bring up the point that because consoles are so much more of an affordable gaming machine, they serve only to rise and rise in popularity.

And if a console is eventually upgradeable, you will probably be able to write your own applications for it to.
Then it is a PC. A PC = Personal Computer. A console is a form of a computer. By allowing itself to be upgradeable and allowing people to write there own applications they will become a Personal Computer.

Since when did I mention that people would write their own applications on it?

 

[Cole]

I took the liberty of removing everything that was completely and utterly unrelated to the matter at hand. Barring the point in hand that new-generation consoles have the functionality listed above (yes, the 360 does have limited DX10 support), you've missed the point that I was trying to make (upgrade functionality in future generations), yet attempted to address it later on.

I did not realize the only point you were trying to make was upgrade functionality. However in terms of DirectX10 and other features,

Why do consoles have a lot of the functionality listed above? Why are consoles able to improve in graphics every generation? Where do they draw there technology from?

They draw a lot the technology from top of the line Pc technologies and ideas. Without the PC there would be a lot less technology improvements with Consoles. They wouldn't have all the features they have today. So if Intel and AMD one day see people don't need top of the line chips anymore because PC Gaming is unneeded... A lot of next generation technology is going to be lost. Why pay $400 for a console that has a slight improvement in graphics?

Completely wrong. The Playstation, Playstation 2 and Xbox all cost more than the Xbox 360 core at release.

Removed out a useless point in that paragraph.
Xbox costed $299 on release. Xbox 360 costed $299 or $399 depending on package. It did not cost less and there was a package that costed more.

Playstation 2 costed $299 on release. PS3 costs more, and Xbox 360 costed same or more depending on package.

Playstation costed $299 on release, PS3 costs more and Xbox 360 costed same or more depending on package.

Wikipedia for prices.

And the quote was not completely wrong since you did not respond to the first sentence.

This is absolute guff, you're just mindlessly rambling here. Although you do bring up the point that because consoles are so much more of an affordable gaming machine, they serve only to rise and rise in popularity.

No none of that is mindless rambling here. Far from that. Did you even read the point of the paragraph?
People make content on a PC. They learn how to code in C++, C#. They learn how to use modeling tools like Maya or XSI. They learn how to make detailed levels that utilize many performance techniques.

Now what if PC's fail at gaming? What if very few games do come out on the PC eventually. Now who are going to use the modding tools, modeling tools, and level tools? These are many the people who go on in the industry and get hired. Development teams are getting bigger and bigger.

So if there are no mods being created on the PC you loose a big chunk of the people who are going to make games for both PC and Console in the future.

Since when did I mention that people would write their own applications on it?

You didn't but I DID. I'm simplying saying that eventually there will be that option. Probably before consoles become upgradeable to a PC-level.

 

[Axyon]

Removed out a useless point in that paragraph.
Xbox costed $299 on release. Xbox 360 costed $299 or $399 depending on package. It did not cost less and there was a package that costed more.

Playstation 2 costed $299 on release. PS3 costs more, and Xbox 360 costed same or more depending on package.

Playstation costed $299 on release, PS3 costs more and Xbox 360 costed same or more depending on package.

Wikipedia for prices.

I don't have time to address your other 'points', but ever heard of a little thing called inflation?

 

[ríomhaire]

I wonder will there ever be multiple versions of consoles released with different power. IE you can play games on both of them but the graphics are better on this one.

 

[Cole]

I don't have time to address your other 'points', but ever heard of a little thing called inflation?

I don't see this bugging Nintendo to much.. The main rise of prices are with Sony and Microsoft.

I mean gamecube launched at a price of $200. Wii is looking at a price of $200. N64 had a price of $200. SNES had a price of $200. On the worldwide release of the NES there were 2 different packages.
$249(R.O.B., the NES Zapper, two game controllers, and two games (Duck Hunt, and Gyromite))
$200(Super Mario Bros. GamePak.)

 

[DEATHMASTER]

"Is there a need for consoles?"
Yes, general public are too...lets just say 'dumb' to utlize pc gaming to its extent; but I wouldn't be surprised if consoles do become pc-ish or replace them in some homes.

 

[Asus]

Consoles are nice as a game system because they are a closed platform computer to the end user. There is less change and everything is made exactly for the same specs for that console.

But it's more freedom for the maker. They can choose whatever parts they want and code the software/OS to run on it when designing the console. That's why MS can use an IBM PowerPC and Sony can use a Cell CPU for their newest console. Dell would not be able to just throw in a Cell CPU on their latest Desktop PC and expect the same benefits most PC users enjoy (X86 CPU, Software compatibility). End users have more freedom on a PC though.

If I had to choose between them I would pick a PC. But consoles are nice too.

FYI the Playstation 3's graphics chip is similar to Nvidia's 7900 series cards. Shaders, pipelines, and features etc. So the DX10 cards coming out this Fall for the PC will be a generation ahead. Before the PS3 even launches probably. lol
The Xbox360 I'm not sure on, I know it has unified pixel/vertex shaders though.

And the Xbox had only a GeForce 3 card in it. The Geforce 3 for the PC came out a year before it and the GeForce 4 only a few months after the Xbox was launched.

 

[Axyon]

I don't see this bugging Nintendo to much.. The main rise of prices are with Sony and Microsoft.

I mean gamecube launched at a price of $200. Wii is looking at a price of $200. N64 had a price of $200. SNES had a price of $200. On the worldwide release of the NES there were 2 different packages.
$249(R.O.B., the NES Zapper, two game controllers, and two games (Duck Hunt, and Gyromite))
$200(Super Mario Bros. GamePak.)

I mean inflation in the sense that if they were released today, the Playstation would be $400 and the Playstation 2 would be $350.

 

[Cole]

I mean inflation in the sense that if they were released today, the Playstation would be $400 and the Playstation 2 would be $350.

Ah, well I see what you mean.

[Anti-PS3 Ramble]Ps3 still has got them in price! OMGZ!!!![/Anti-PS3 Ramble]