Is this a case of ideology going too far?

[15357]

Inspired by "Is this a case of religion going to far?"


A few months ago, the Teachers' Union in Busan wrote and taught pro-northern "Reunification Textbooks". A passage in the books said: "The great general Kim Il-sung fought japanese forces patriotically." and even described the Korean War as a honorable reunification attempt by the Northerners. They were very-pro north Korea in general.


Of course, they're all under investigation by the KNPA SECPOL division for suspected violations of the national security law(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Act_(South_Korea)).


But anyway, I think this is worse than religion. Damn bastards are trying to brainwash and turn the students into commies. :flame:

 

[Raziaar]

I am the great Razidamus. I predict much flaming in the future of this thread.




On topic... Brainwashing for any ideology is bad.


A healthy, clean, fresh smelling mind is one which is washed with one part of all ideologies, and rinsed thoroughly.

 

[15357]

Yes.... just like religion.

 

[Absinthe]

No.

 

[15357]

I'd say issuing communist propaganda is just as bad as singing songs about religion.

Religious people need to be put in correctional institutions, the same as every other person with dangerous delusions.

The same with communists.

 

[bbson john]

I'd say issuing communist propaganda is just as bad as singing songs about religion.

What?

 

[15357]

Or worse.

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=113739

 

[PvtRyan]

I'm honestly beginning to think Numbers is just trolling here.

 

[15357]

???

How the hell am I trolling here? What about the other thread, is that trolling too?

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Protip:

You're the personification of the point at which ideology has gone too far.

 

[JNightshade]

Exactly. Brainwashing is bad. From what little you said, I gather that the teachers were trying to spread different ideas among students. That's not ideology- it's freedom of thought. However, you support a government repressing this.

So yes, it is a case of ideology going to far. However, that teachers' union isn't at fault here.

 

[PvtRyan]

???

How the hell am I trolling here? What about the other thread, is that trolling too?

No, it's about how every single one of your threads is either about the greatness of South-Korea or the evilness of communism. And I can't believe someone is genuinely that obsessed with it.

 

[hasan]

Don't Americans teach their kids that .. you know .. 400 years ago our fathers built a nation on this land with the idea of freedom and equality .. bla bla bla? When infact, this nation was built on top of the bodies of 50 million native indians?

Now that is brainwashing.

Actually, they do the same thing in just about every country in the world.

 

[PvtRyan]

My country invented colonial slavery \o/

 

[Solaris]

Unbreakable Union of freeborn Republics,Great Russia has welded forever to stand.Created in struggle by will of the people,United and mighty, our Soviet land! Sing to the Motherland, home of the free,Bulwark of peoples in brotherhood strong.O Party of Lenin, the strength of the people,To Communism's triumph lead us on!LENIN NEEDS YOU

 

[Mechagodzilla]

^ Exhibit B of ideology becoming absolutely retarded.

 

[Raziaar]

^ Exhibit B of ideology becoming absolutely retarded.

LMAO!

:cheers:

 

[Solaris]

Solaris Is Right

 

[Raziaar]

Solaris Is Right

I like how the signature is inflated enough that powerful alien telescopes from a far away galaxy can see it.

 

[PvtRyan]

Solaris Is Right

Which was said by Cherry. Which should make you think.

 

[15357]

Exactly. Brainwashing is bad. From what little you said, I gather that the teachers were trying to spread different ideas among students. That's not ideology- it's freedom of thought. However, you support a government repressing this.

So yes, it is a case of ideology going to far. However, that teachers' union isn't at fault here.

There is a major awesome difference between spreading different ideas, and calling Kim Il-Sung, who killed 4 million with war, executed several hundred thousand civillians for not being communist, and has one of the world's biggest political prisoner facilities that torture people 'honorable'. Simply put, it's propaganda.

What is worse; singing songs to convert people, or issuing NK propaganda?

No, it's about how every single one of your threads is either about the greatness of South-Korea or the evilness of communism. And I can't believe someone is genuinely that obsessed with it.

My last 8 threads in order:

"Death Penalty, when?"

"US Blackhawk crashes...."

"Military Day!"

"Is this a case of ideology going too far?"

"Time to gtfo."

"One Question."

"I am now wanted in 16 provinces."

"A contemporary history of Korea, and why I love the military."

Let's see.... Hmmm. Death penalty is related to the greatness of South Korea? Or a US blackhawk crashing? Military Day is a thread asking for advice, Time to gtfo is a news thread on al-queda, One question is about EP1.... Hmm... yeah... so many communist related threads, huh?

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Four out of eight is not a good track record.
"I only praise the government half the times I speak."

...especially when you've frequently failed to provide any real argumentative content besides saying "I love fascism" and "I don't love communists".

Even in this thread, where you actually have what would normally be a valid complaint about a lack of objectivity in the classroom, it's greatly diminished by the fact that you're an active supporter and participant in identically retarded actions.
A fairly recent thread about your school career spent confiscating "demonic" playing cards from children, in the name of the government, comes to mind.

I'm not just comparing you to the much-loathed communists for no reason.
Were it not for your economic position and right-wing terminology, you could unquestionably pass for a stalinist.
Your arguments have all the intellectual depth of a billboard.
A billboard drawn by Solaris, in crayon.
Did you really think we all find you both insipid by some freak chance of luck?
You're the same persons, indistinguisable both by your collective inability to put forwards anything compelling beyond slogans and misplaced teenage furiousness.

It's about time, perhaps, to progress onwards into expressing one's thoughts with full paragraphs of logical argumentation, don't you think?
Cheerleaders are for sporting events and singalongs are for gradeschools and sermons.
Try to transcend that.

 

[15357]

Four out of eight is not a good track record.
"I only praise the government half the times I speak."

...especially when you've frequently failed to provide any real argumentative content besides saying "I love fascism" and "I don't love communists".

Even in this thread, where you actually have what would normally be a valid complaint about a lack of objectivity in the classroom, it's greatly diminished by the fact that you're an active supporter and participant in identically retarded actions.
A fairly recent thread about your school career spent confiscating "demonic" playing cards from children, in the name of the government, comes to mind.

I'm not just comparing you to the much-loathed communists for no reason.
Were it not for your economic position and right-wing terminology, you could unquestionably pass for a stalinist.
Your arguments have all the intellectual depth of a billboard.
A billboard drawn by Solaris, in crayon.
Did you really think we all find you both insipid by some freak chance of luck?
You're the same persons, indistinguisable both by your collective inability to put forwards anything compelling beyond slogans and misplaced teenage furiousness.

It's about time, perhaps, to progress onwards into expressing one's thoughts with full paragraphs of logical argumentation, don't you think?
Cheerleaders are for sporting events and singalongs are for gradeschools and sermons.
Try to transcend that.

Well, thanks for the input.....

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I tend to dislike and even hate communism, obviously because of Mr. Psychopath in the north. Perhaps it's because I've read and heard about in countlesss numbers of executions, massacres, brutal killings of unarmed civillians as well as the kidnapping and torture of our citizens by communists. What communism has brought in countless nations, societies, and even families can best be described as horrible. I ask you to tell me one country, which has tried to put communism into work, and did not fall down shatttering into a pile of broken human beings, broken by the inhuman system of forcibly taking everyone's money, and redistributing it among everyone else, killing uncooperative persons in teh progress.

You may say that it was not true communism, not the ideal version. Let me tell you, that there are no ideal things in this world. Even democracy and freedom we all hold dear to in times of unrest and just normal times is not ideal. Achieving something overtly utopian is impossible, and failure of this killed tens of millions in the Soviet Union, China, and other countries as well. There will never be an ideal democracy, and there will never, not in a million years, not until the human race is replaced by robots, that communist will become ideal.

As for my support of the goverment and a centrallized establishment, I will first point out that most of you don't explain your support for a liberal State but somehow that works, because others agree with it. Goverment centrallization can bring massive amounts of effectivness to the system, and everything from crime prevention to healthcare could be done easily with effectivness. That is what you want, is it not? A goverment that actually works.

Of course, there are other reasons that I favor a somewhat authoritarian central power system. In order to protect our freedoms and Democracy itself, we must be able to sacrifice something for it. There are no gains, without giving something. Equal exchange is needed for everything in this world. A good goverment, an effective goverment, will be able to destroy and neutralize our enemies, and take what is rightfully ours, with the payment of minor civil liberties. Also, I have seen the so-called liberal organizations, which are simply mobs of retards who hit cops with iron pipes, and sometimes even use flamethrowers at police. My hatred of those leftist liberal unions and the communists of the north as well as inside, combined, and turned me into an economically-right person, perhaps even fascist. As for my authoritarianism, it can be traced back to the days of Confucious. Loyalty and piety is an extremely important virtue of our society, and I ve learned it to be a moral thing. Respect of elders, the authority, was what my parents taught me, and loyalty to the fatherland, was what my teachers and ethics textbooks taught me, since the age of 5. I suspect that many of my fellow Koreans are like this. This certainly explains why Pres. Park Chung Hee, who is described as a military dictator in the BBC, is widely thought to be the greatest president in Korea.

 

[SpotEnemyBoats]

STALINISTS LAWL

But a world without communism/socialism & contries with dictators/ absolute kings is a much better world

 

[Solaris]

Numbers, I share your hatred of thoose in the North. These people are not communists, just as becuase they call themselves the 'peoples democratic peoples republic of korea' does not make them democratic.

Communism is not about centralised power at the top. I don't want to disgus communism as a theory, but I would like for you to accept that you do not hate communism, you just disagree with it.

North Korea is not capitalist, it's a state capitalist autocratic dictatorship, in it the workers have no say. If you still hold that the soviet union is communist, we have a dissagreement that is purely semantic.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Well, thanks for the input.....

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I tend to dislike and even hate communism, obviously because of Mr. Psychopath in the north. Perhaps it's because I've read and heard about in countlesss numbers of executions, massacres, brutal killings of unarmed civillians as well as the kidnapping and torture of our citizens by communists. What communism has brought in countless nations, societies, and even families can best be described as horrible. I ask you to tell me one country, which has tried to put communism into work, and did not fall down shatttering into a pile of broken human beings, broken by the inhuman system of forcibly taking everyone's money, and redistributing it among everyone else, killing uncooperative persons in teh progress.

You may say that it was not true communism, not the ideal version. Let me tell you, that there are no ideal things in this world. Even democracy and freedom we all hold dear to in times of unrest and just normal times is not ideal. Achieving something overtly utopian is impossible, and failure of this killed tens of millions in the Soviet Union, China, and other countries as well. There will never be an ideal democracy, and there will never, not in a million years, not until the human race is replaced by robots, that communist will become ideal.

As for my support of the goverment and a centrallized establishment, I will first point out that most of you don't explain your support for a liberal State but somehow that works, because others agree with it. Goverment centrallization can bring massive amounts of effectivness to the system, and everything from crime prevention to healthcare could be done easily with effectivness. That is what you want, is it not? A goverment that actually works.

Of course, there are other reasons that I favor a somewhat authoritarian central power system. In order to protect our freedoms and Democracy itself, we must be able to sacrifice something for it. There are no gains, without giving something. Equal exchange is needed for everything in this world. A good goverment, an effective goverment, will be able to destroy and neutralize our enemies, and take what is rightfully ours, with the payment of minor civil liberties. Also, I have seen the so-called liberal organizations, which are simply mobs of retards who hit cops with iron pipes, and sometimes even use flamethrowers at police. My hatred of those leftist liberal unions and the communists of the north as well as inside, combined, and turned me into an economically-right person, perhaps even fascist. As for my authoritarianism, it can be traced back to the days of Confucious. Loyalty and piety is an extremely important virtue of our society, and I ve learned it to be a moral thing. Respect of elders, the authority, was what my parents taught me, and loyalty to the fatherland, was what my teachers and ethics textbooks taught me, since the age of 5. I suspect that many of my fellow Koreans are like this. This certainly explains why Pres. Park Chung Hee, who is described as a military dictator in the BBC, is widely thought to be the greatest president in Korea.

Holy crap, that's well thought out.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Solaris]

Yes. Put me in charge and everything will be fine, I guarantee it. But for the dictator who follows, for his actions I cannot account.

 

[Raziaar]

Yes. Put me in charge and everything will be fine, I guarantee it. But for the dictator who follows, for his actions I cannot account.

You'll be supportive of violent revolution though, when the people don't like your government, right? You'll encourage them to rise up and unite against yourself, using violent means... for the good of the nation?

 

[Solaris]

You'll be supportive of violent revolution though, when the people don't like your government, right? You'll encourage them to rise up and unite against yourself, using violent means... for the good of the nation?

That wasn't the point I was trying to make. Sure strong authoritarian governments can be more efficient, but also more evil.

Power Corrupts
Absolute Power corrupts absolutely.

 

[repiV]

Numbers, I share your hatred of thoose in the North. These people are not communists, just as becuase they call themselves the 'peoples democratic peoples republic of korea' does not make them democratic.

Communism is not about centralised power at the top. I don't want to disgus communism as a theory, but I would like for you to accept that you do not hate communism, you just disagree with it.

North Korea is not capitalist, it's a state capitalist autocratic dictatorship, in it the workers have no say. If you still hold that the soviet union is communist, we have a dissagreement that is purely semantic.

Yes it is. That's exactly what it's about. In communism, even your "ideal" version, by your very own words, power over everything is held in the hands of the few and there is no such thing as self-sufficiency.

 

[Solaris]

Yes it is. That's exactly what it's about. In communism, even your "ideal" version, by your very own words, power over everything is held in the hands of the few and there is no such thing as self-sufficiency.

Workers councils would hold most power.
Please read some marxist theory and then tell me what communism is.

 

[repiV]

Workers councils would hold most power.
Please read some marxist theory and then tell me what communism is.

And, what would these workers councils do exactly? Vote for a payrise?

 

[Solaris]

And, what would these workers councils do exactly? Vote for a payrise?

Run the factories and control the tools of production.

 

[repiV]

Run the factories and control the tools of production.

So, they do exactly the same job as people that are in charge of factories now.
How does that give them "the most power" or make anybody self-sufficient?
Moreover, what the hell is your obsession with factories? We barely have any factories left in this country. They're all in Asia. You always resort to the poor guy who has to work 8 hours a day in a factory (one of the easiest jobs on the planet, natch), yet there are barely any factories here. You also miss the point that someone has a choice of whether or not to work in a factory.
Whereas, under Communism, they have no choice where they work. Yeah, that really sounds like freedom.

 

[Solaris]

So, they do exactly the same job as people that are in charge of factories now.
How does that give them "the most power" or make anybody self-sufficient?
Moreover, what the hell is your obsession with factories? We barely have any factories left in this country. They're all in Asia. You always resort to the poor guy who has to work 8 hours a day in a factory (one of the easiest jobs on the planet, natch), yet there are barely any factories here. You also miss the point that someone has a choice of whether or not to work in a factory.
Whereas, under Communism, they have no choice where they work. Yeah, that really sounds like freedom.

No choice where they work? Jesus that sounds like hell, I must be an idiot for saying that. Oh wait, I didn't. Neither did Lenin or Marx or Trostsky. So where did you get this bullshit idea that you have no choice where you work?

And the fact that their are 'no' factories in the UK shows just how little work we need to do. When you think about it, about 80% of the jobs people do are crap and do **** all. Who needs a marketing department when theres only one brand? No-body thats who. Who needs a stockbroker when theres no private enterprise nor capital investiment? No-body, thats who.

 

[repiV]

No choice where they work? Jesus that sounds like hell, I must be an idiot for saying that. Oh wait, I didn't. Neither did Lenin or Marx or Trostsky. So where did you get this bullshit idea that you have no choice where you work?

According to you, people are given jobs that suit their abilities.

And the fact that their are 'no' factories in the UK shows just how little work we need to do. When you think about it, about 80% of the jobs people do are crap and do **** all. Who needs a marketing department when theres only one brand? No-body thats who. Who needs a stockbroker when theres no private enterprise nor capital investiment? No-body, thats who.

No private enterprise, individual vision or capital investment. No interesting jobs. Now that sounds like hell. Your problem is that you see everyone as a victim. You think everyone is entitled to a handout without doing anything to earn it, and that people more successful than you can ever dream of being deserve to be punished for their success.
Your warped views are driven by one thing, and one thing only - envy.

 

[Solaris]

According to you, people are given jobs that suit their abilities.



No private enterprise, individual vision or capital investment. No interesting jobs. Now that sounds like hell. Your problem is that you see everyone as a victim. You think everyone is entitled to a handout without doing anything to earn it, and that people more successful than you can ever dream of being deserve to be punished for their success.
Your warped views are driven by one thing, and one thing only - envy.

Envy? I'm going to do well undercapitalism, I'm sure of it. Actually I'm pretty sure I'd be worse off under socialism.

 

[repiV]

Envy? I'm going to do well undercapitalism, I'm sure of it. Actually I'm pretty sure I'd be worse off under socialism.

Not with that victim mentality, you won't.

 

[kirovman]

Envy? I'm going to do well undercapitalism, I'm sure of it. Actually I'm pretty sure I'd be worse off under socialism.

Why, you rotten bourgeoisie fatcat!

Getting one over on your fellow man so you can fuel your capitalist spending addictions!

FAT CAT GO HOME!

 

[repiV]

Why, you rotten bourgeoisie fatcat!

Getting one over on your fellow man so you can fuel your capitalist spending addictions!

FAT CAT GO HOME!

Dude, you can only say that to actual fat cats. Not fantasy ones.
Solaris' first job interview...
"Tell me why we should hire you."
"Well...I don't think you should hire me. I think everyone deserves this job equally, and I think you should give all the applicants the job for one hour a week - so it's fair."
"But you're hoping I'll just hire you for your revolutionary insights."
"Well...I guess I am."
"And your complete and utter lack of business acumen makes you an asset to my organisation because?"
"You can help me. You can overthrow your capitalist oppressors and let everyone have it all!"
"Get the **** out of my office."