Italians Victims of US Friendly Fire Incident

[fizzlephox]

so this was deliberate?

You're a very good voice manipulator because that video is 100% fake. It must've taken you a long time to clip all the soundbytes together into coherent sentences that condemn the US's WMD accusations. You fabricated that entire video none the less. The reporter even sounds like he's from Mississippi even though it's supposed to be a British newscast... You've been caught.

 

[No Limit]

No, I said the PM had greater motive to lie, which is true

It is not true as you haven't been able to back that up when I asked you to, in my opinion you are just talking out of your ass.

I am 90% certain from the facts we have now that this was a terrible accident

What facts are making you that certain this was the faul of the driver?

 

[No Limit]

You're a very good voice manipulator because that video is 100% fake. It must've taken you a long time to clip all the soundbytes together into coherent sentences that condemn the US's WMD accusations. You fabricated that entire video none the less. The reporter even sounds like he's from Mississippi even though it's supposed to be a British newscast... You've been caught.

:upstare:

Damn, Stren, you have awesome editing skills; this should be your career.

 

[Eg.]

he said accident, both sides could be at blame. dont jump to conclusions

 

[GhostFox]

It is not true as you haven't been able to back that up when I asked you to

Back what up?

 

[GhostFox]

What facts are making you that certain this was the faul of the driver?

1) What possible reason could the US have to want to kill this guy?
2) If they did murder him, why wouldn't they kill all of them and leave no witnesses?
3) No bullets appear to have been fired deliberately into the passenger compartment.

Etc.

I'll still wait for an investigation to complete, but so far this looks like nothing more then a tragic accident.

 

[No Limit]

Back what up?

Why he would have a reason to lie. You said:

According to reports, Berlusconi was embaressed about ransoming the reporter that he did not tell US forces about the mission.

When asked for a source you didn't provide one.

I asked you why our 3rd largest ally in Italy would lie, you didn't respond.

 

[No Limit]

1) What possible reason could the US have to want to kill this guy?
2) If they did murder him, why wouldn't they kill all of them and leave no witnesses?
3) No bullets appear to have been fired deliberately into the passenger compartment.

You are going on the assumption that I think they murdered them; I never said that and I don't believe it at this time. What I said was that our policy at checkpoints is terribly wrong and people are dying because of it maybe because of trigger happy soldiers or because the checkpoints are set up in a way that makes them almost impossible to see (I am starting to dount this though as so many others went though with no problems). You then said the driver was at fault, not our military.

 

[seinfeldrules]

maybe because of trigger happy soldiers

Do you see that as a bad thing?

 

[GhostFox]

What I said was that our policy at checkpoints is terribly wrong

I agree that US policy seems to be flawed, or at least needing review and some changes. I even took the time to post an expansive article pointing that out.

You then said the driver was at fault, not our military.

From the information I have seen so far, it does seem more likely that the driver was at fault. However I am willing to admit that I could be wrong. Which is why I want to wait for an investigation before hanging someone out to dry.

 

[Bodacious]

1) What possible reason could the US have to want to kill this guy?
2) If they did murder him, why wouldn't they kill all of them and leave no witnesses?
3) No bullets appear to have been fired deliberately into the passenger compartment.

Etc.

I'll still wait for an investigation to complete, but so far this looks like nothing more then a tragic accident.

Don't Forget:

5) Sgrena has changed her story multiple times and has an undeniable bias against the US.

 

[No Limit]

Do you see that as a bad thing?

Yes. I don't really understand what you are asking. Is that not a bad thing in your eyes?

 

[Bodacious]

You are going on the assumption that I think they murdered them; I never said that and I don't believe it at this time. What I said was that our policy at checkpoints is terribly wrong and people are dying because of it maybe because of trigger happy soldiers or because the checkpoints are set up in a way that makes them almost impossible to see (I am starting to dount this though as so many others went though with no problems).

The checkpoints aren't hard to see, they are confusing like I pointed out in the article I posted. That is a problem

You then said the driver was at fault, not our military.

This is what I think, mainly because Sgrena has changed her story so many times.

 

[No Limit]

From the information I have seen so far, it does seem more likely that the driver was at fault

What have you seen that makes you 90% sure of this? Remember, I am not talking about them being murdered, I am talking about US soldiers not following their policies at checkpoints.

 

[No Limit]

This is what I think, mainly because Sgrena has changed her story so many times.

So the photo, and the fact it has only 1 bullet hole, means nothing to you?

 

[seinfeldrules]

Yes. I don't really understand what you are asking. Is that not a bad thing in your eyes?

I think it is better than them waiting for a terrorist to blow himself up in their faces.

 

[Bodacious]

So the photo, and the fact it has only 1 bullet hole, means nothing to you?

1. No, that might not be the vehicle. I have, since posting those pictures, have read articles that say the agent rented a truck from a local guy.

2. If that is the vehicle, it doesn't match Sgrena's description of haveing 300-400 bullets fired at it.

 

[GhostFox]

What have you seen that makes you 90% sure of this? Remember, I am not talking about them being murdered, I am talking about US soldiers not following their policies at checkpoints.

The official US report seems by far the most logical, as opposed to the long, drawn out conspiracy theory put forward as an alternative.

I think it is very likely the US was never informed, as the report states.
I think it is very possible the car did not slow down as it approached the check point. I don't know why the driver wouldn't, I can only guess he was confused. But I don't know why the soldiers would choose not to try to signal this one car.
Sgrena keeps upping the ante, which is odd. She is up to 400 rounds being fired at her now. If the US soldiers were the ones at fault, why does she feel the need to keep changing stories to make things worse?

Again, this is all supposition and only an investigation will tell the truth.

 

[No Limit]

1. No, that might not be the vehicle. I have, since posting those pictures, have read articles that say the agent rented a truck from a local guy.

Ok, so if that is not the vehicle do you admit there is a chance their vehicle was shot many times as she claimed?

2. If that is the vehicle, it doesn't match Sgrena's description of haveing 300-400 bullets fired at it.

If it is the vehicle it shows our soldiers don't follow US policy at checkpoints. So let's assume that is the vehicle and only 1 shot was fired. With that assumption do you agree that what the soldiers did was wrong?

More importantly if that is not the vehicle why is our military hiding it? With that said why do you believe the military when they are hiding things from you?

 

[No Limit]

The official US report seems by far the most logical, as opposed to the long, drawn out conspiracy theory put forward as an alternative.

I think it is very likely the US was never informed, as the report states.
I think it is very possible the car did not slow down as it approached the check point. I don't know why the driver wouldn't, I can only guess he was confused. But I don't know why the soldiers would choose not to try to signal this one car.
Sgrena keeps upping the ante, which is odd. She is up to 400 rounds being fired at her now. If the US soldiers were the ones at fault, why does she feel the need to keep changing stories to make things worse?

Again, this is all supposition and only an investigation will tell the truth.

You made all these assumptions but you have no backup for any of it. Again, and please address this as I am getting sick of it, why would Italy, one of our biggest allies, lie to us when they say they informed the US of the transport?

 

[No Limit]

I think it is better than them waiting for a terrorist to blow himself up in their faces.

So you really do believe a bunch of trigger happy soldiers at checkpoints is a good thing. I don't need to even comment on it as it speaks for itself, just wanted to make it clear.

 

[seinfeldrules]

This wasnt a normal checkpoint, it was a temporary checkpoint in anticipation of the US Ambassador. I'm sure this was a large part of the confusion.

 

[GhostFox]

why would Italy, one of our biggest allies, lie to us when they say they informed the US of the transport?

Because if they actually didn't inform the US, the embaressment will be huge. The PM will lose his job. That is a pretty big reason for him to lie.

 

[Bodacious]

Ok, so if that is not the vehicle do you admit there is a chance their vehicle was shot many times as she claimed?

It is a possibility.

If it is the vehicle it shows our soldiers don't follow US policy at checkpoints.

1. How so?

2. We can't even see the rest of the vehicle.

So let's assume that is the vehicle and only 1 shot was fired. With that assumption do you agree that what the soldiers did was wrong?

So 1 shot passed through the temple of one person and wounded 2 others.

No, I do not agree, your assumption is assinine.

More importantly if that is not the vehicle why is our military hiding it?

How do we know that the italians don't have it and are hiding it?

With that said why do you believe the military when they are hiding things from you?

Because I take the word of our military before I would take the word of an America Hating, Terrorist Sympathizing communist.

 

[seinfeldrules]

So you really do believe a bunch of trigger happy soldiers at checkpoints is a good thing.

In a situation like this it was a good thing. Do you want soldiers that sit back and call in for orders while a car is speeding at them?

 

[No Limit]

This wasnt a normal checkpoint, it was a temporary checkpoint in anticipation of the US Ambassador. I'm sure this was a large part of the confusion.

Whatever, I am just pointing out you think it is a good idea for us to have a bunch of trigger happy soldiers over there. I don't need to comment on it, it speaks for itself.

Because if they actually didn't inform the US, the embaressment will be huge. The PM will lose his job. That is a pretty big reason for him to lie.

Why would he lose his job?

How do we know that the italians don't have it and are hiding it?

How would Italians get a hold of a vehicle that was in control of the US forces at the checkpoint? Lets use a little logic here. Yes, I'm sure, I bunch of Italians sneaked in right in front of the American forces and drove the vehicle away without being noticed. :dozey:

Because I take the word of our military before I would take the word of an America Hating, Terrorist Sympathizing communist.

LOL, no you are taking the word of our military over the word of our 3rd largest ally which has no reason to lie. Tells me a lot about you especially when you know they are hiding the vehicle from us.

 

[GhostFox]

Why would he lose his job?

The italian people are already against the war. If the PM got a guy, who is a national hero now, killed because of his incompatence, he will be gone in a week. Do you really think he has any chance of surviving this if it comes out that he deliberately did not inform the US as they claim?

 

[Bodacious]

How would Italians get a hold of a vehicle that was in control of the US forces at the checkpoint? Lets use a little logic here. Yes, I'm sure, I bunch of Italians sneaked in right in front of the American forces and drove the vehicle away without being noticed. :dozey:

Let me find the source, I'll get back to your. I read somethign that said the italians were bringing it to italy for investigation.

LOL, no you are taking the word of our military over the word of our 3rd largest ally which has no reason to lie. Tells me a lot about you especially when you know they are hiding the vehicle from us.

Where is your proof that says they are hiding the car?

Sgrena isn't an ally of the US. She is a terrorist sympathizing communist. I woundn't be surprised if her whole hostage scheme was a hoax to give the terrorsits millions of dollars.

 

[No Limit]

Where is your proof that says they are hiding the car?

I already showed you a source that said they didn't know where it was. If they don't know where it was what happened to it? Did it beam up to the mother ship?

 

[GhostFox]

I already showed you a source that said they didn't know where it was. If they don't know where it was what happened to it?

Why is it that you feel that every Italian statement is 100% true, and every US statement is 100% false.

Your only defense so far is that "Italy said this". How is that any greater then "Well the US said this"?

 

[No Limit]

Why is it that you feel that every Italian statement is 100% true, and every US statement is 100% false.

Your only defense so far is that "Italy said this". How is that any greater then "Well the US said this"?

No that is not my only defense, maybe you should reread the thread. I also already said that I think her claim that she was targeted was false. Do a little fact checking before you try to bad mouth me. The reason I think Italy is telling the truth is because they have no reason to lie. America on the other hand has all the reasons to lie and the fact they don't know where the car is makes my suspicions deepers.

 

[GhostFox]

The reason I think Italy is telling the truth is because they have no reason to lie.

You've already been shown that Italy has a much greater reason to lie. You have just chosen to ignore it.

 

[No Limit]

You've already been shown that Italy has a much greater reason to lie. You have just chosen to ignore it.

No, you chose to ignore my reply when I asked you for a source or when I pointed out how your assumption was wrong. Let me make this simple for you, why does our government not know where the car is if they have nothing to hide?

 

[Bodacious]

Finally found it:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20050308-121240-1847r.htm

Italian magistrates have opened an inquiry into the killing and are arranging for the truck to be flown to Italy for examination by ballistic experts, judicial sources said. The magistrates also have obtained from the U.S. military the cellular phone that Mr. Calipari was carrying when he was shot.

There goes your theory that the vehicle is being hidden by the US military.

Now that I have shown you that fact, what is your reason for taking Iraly's word over the US's?

 

[bliink]

Sgrena isn't an ally of the US. She is a terrorist sympathizing communist. I woundn't be surprised if her whole hostage scheme was a hoax to give the terrorsits millions of dollars.

Lets stay in reality

 

[CptStern]

Finally found it:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20050308-121240-1847r.htm

"....Italian magistrates have opened an inquiry into the killing and are arranging for the truck to be flown to Italy.... "

There goes your theory that the vehicle is being hidden by the US military.

Now that I have shown you that fact, what is your reason for taking Iraly's word over the US's?

now it's a truck?

 

[Bodacious]

Lets stay in reality

There is plenty of evidence to suport that idea, mainly from words from her own mouth.

Would you like some resources?

 

[CptStern]

yes I would ...I want a direct "I sympathize with terrorism" quote

 

[Bodacious]

The below links have all the information you need.

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/070198.php
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/070366.php

 

[mabufo]

I am starting to think there is more to this than we think... 300-400 bullets, as I read in the above link... would have torn the car to peices... the picture that we have been looking at on the yahoo news site - clearly doesn't have that many holes...

My point is that there are very large holes in the story of the italian woman... I'm not assuming anything - just an observation... But wth the links posted above - I have to say that well, you know what I'm thinking.