Italy issues 6 more arrest warrents for CIA members accused of kidnapping

[CptStern]

"An Italian court has issued six new arrest warrants for people involved in the alleged kidnapping of an Egyptian terrorism suspect by the CIA, a prosecuting magistrate said on Monday.

The new warrants bring to 19 the number of suspects -- all believed to be U.S. citizens -- being sought under suspicion of abducting imam Hassan Mustafa Osama Nasr, also known as Abu Omar, from Milan in February 2003.

The prosecutors say the U.S. secret services took Nasr to Egypt for interrogation, a process known as "rendition."


he was tortured by egyptian officials


source



Italy is the first country to charge the US of kidnapping citizens and sending them to either american run prisons or to be tortured in other countries


CIA Flying Suspects To Torture

 

[Gray Fox]

The CIA doesn't do that stuff in western countries, without the knowledge and approval of that countries intelligence agencies. Italy should also issue warrent arrests against it's own people.

 

[The Monkey]

Yeah, the same thing happened here. American agents kidnaped two Swedish citizens and transfered them to Egypt, and they haven't been heard of since. But unlike the Italians, we are too cowardly to put up a warrent or anything like that.. Our deceased forein minister, Anna Lindh, allowed it, even though our constitution says that no Swedish citizen can to be expeled from the country. If she hadn't been murdered she probaly would've been forced to resign.

 

[CptStern]

The CIA doesn't do that stuff in western countries, without the knowledge and approval of that countries intelligence agencies. Italy should also issue warrent arrests it's own people.

yup. I agree ..happened in canada and our secret service is being investigated

 

[Icarusintel]

19 American CIA agents all involved personally in kidnapping this one guy? sounds a littl suspect... i could understand a number like 10 or so, but putting 19 agents on one guy is a little extreme and sounds fishy on the Italian end of things

 

[CptStern]

oh come on . ..they obviously know who the suspects are or else they couldnt write up an arrest warrent


another lie in a LONG list of lies:


"President Bush, in a January interview with the New York Times, said: "Torture is never acceptable." He added, "nor do we hand over people to countries that do torture."


lies, lies, lies

 

[Icarusintel]

is food/sleep deprivation considered torture?

 

[The Monkey]

is food/sleep deprivation considered torture?

It is torture. Torture is much more that the usual whip and stretching bench.

 

[Icarusintel]

It is torture. Torture is much more that the usual whip and stretching bench.

ahhh... i miss the good ol days of torture when they had all those cool tools and machines...

 

[CptStern]

is food/sleep deprivation considered torture?

how about electrical shock?


"America security agents just took over," says Tomas Hammarberg, a former Swedish diplomat who pressed for and got an investigation into how the Egyptians disappeared.

"That they had been treated brutally in general, had been beaten up several times, that they had been threatened," says Hammarberg. "But probably the worst phase of torture came after that first visit by the ambassador. ... They were under electric torture."


"Michael Scheuer, who until three months ago was a senior CIA official in the counterterrorist center. Scheuer created the CIA's Osama bin Laden unit and helped set up the rendition program during the Clinton administration.

So the CIA started taking suspects to Egypt and Jordan. Scheuer says renditions were authorized by Clinton's National Security Council and officials in Congress - and all understood what it meant to send suspects to those countries.

"They don't have the same legal system we have. But we know that going into it," says Scheuer. "And so the idea that we're gonna suddenly throw our hands up like Claude Raines in 'Casablanca' and say, 'I'm shocked that justice in Egypt isn't like it is in Milwaukee,' there's a certain disingenuousness to that."

 

[Icarusintel]

hmmm... done under Clinton;s administration... now that is interesting
this is nothing new though

 

[Adidajs]

oh come on . ..they obviously know who the suspects are or else they couldnt write up an arrest warrent


another lie in a LONG list of lies:


"President Bush, in a January interview with the New York Times, said: "Torture is never acceptable." He added, "nor do we hand over people to countries that do torture."


lies, lies, lies

The Justice Dept spent awhile determining a new definition of "torture" allowing more extreme interrogation techniques. So Bush's response was true to an extent. I believe that the CIA doesn't exactly tell everything they do like rendition to Bush. They don't need approval from him on everything, but i realize it's easier to just blame him. Personally I suspect the Italian govt on some level knew about the kidnapping and are now denying their involvement. Nothing will happen to the CIA agents. If the CIA did this without any permission by the Italian govt, they need to be reigned in.

 

[CptStern]

who cares what admin initiated it? partisan poltics is just an excuse to play the blame game in order to invalidate an issue ...despite whatever evidence may be at hand

 

[CptStern]

The Justice Dept spent awhile determining a new definition of "torture" allowing more extreme interrogation techniques. So Bush's response was true to an extent. I believe that the CIA doesn't exactly tell everything they do like rendition to Bush. They don't need approval from him on everything, but i realize it's easier to just blame him. Personally I suspect the Italian govt on some level knew about the kidnapping and are now denying their involvement. Nothing will happen to the CIA agents. If the CIA did this without any permission by the Italian govt, they need to be reigned in.

no rendition is well documented ...in fact it was initiated by Bush's pappy:


"Experts warn that bringing persons residing abroad to U.S. justice by means other than extradition or mutual agreement with the host country, i.e., by abduction and their surreptitious transportation, can vastly complicate U.S. foreign relations, sometimes jeopardizing interests far more important than “justice,” deterrence, and the prosecution of a single individual. For example, the abduction of a Mexican national in 1990 to stand trial in Los Angeles on charges relating to torture and death of a DEA agent led to vehement protests from the government of Mexico, a government subsequently plagued with evidence of high level drug related corruption. Subsequently, in November 1994, the two countries signed a Treaty to Prohibit Transborder Abductions. Notwithstanding the unpopularity of
such abductions in nations that fail to apprehend and prosecute those accused, the “rendering” of such wanted criminals to U.S. courts is permitted under limited circumstances by a January 1993 Presidential Decision Directive issued under the first Bush Administration, and reaffirmed by former President Clinton. Such conduct, however, raises prospects of other nations using similar tactics against U.S. citizens.


source

 

[Top Secret]

who cares what admin initiated it?

I do. And 99% of the time, you seem to aswell.

 

[CptStern]

:upstare: if the democrats were behind the invasion of iraq instead of the neo-cons I'd be just as critical


oh and saying "I do" means squat ...unless you care to explain how partisan politics has anything to do with the topic at hand

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Stole my egyptian terrorist suspect!

 

[Icarusintel]

who cares what admin initiated it? partisan poltics is just an excuse to play the blame game in order to invalidate an issue ...despite whatever evidence may be at hand

actually, the administration is important because it means there is precedent for it, which isn;t really an excuse but can be used to explain why it is happening,
besides, i know you'd love to just lay this all in Bush's lap

Stole my egyptian terrorist suspect!

Quoted for Hilarity... not Hillary

 

[CptStern]

actually, the administration is important because it means there is precedent for it, which isn;t really an excuse but can be used to explain why it is happening,
besides, i know you'd love to just lay this all in Bush's lap

ok lets examine that then:


"the “rendering” of such wanted criminals to U.S. courts is permitted under limited circumstances by a January 1993 Presidential Decision Directive issued under the first Bush Administration"


so it's not a clinton thing, he just reaffirmed it

 

[Icarusintel]

ok lets examine that then:


"the “rendering” of such wanted criminals to U.S. courts is permitted under limited circumstances by a January 1993 Presidential Decision Directive issued under the first Bush Administration"


so it's not a clinton thing, he just reaffirmed it

alright... but that still means that the precedent has been there for a while before these recent events

 

[CptStern]

alright... but that still means that the precedent has been there for a while before these recent events

and so have the ramifications of such a policy:


"Experts warn that bringing persons residing abroad to U.S. justice by means other than extradition or mutual agreement with the host country, i.e., by abduction and their surreptitious transportation, can vastly complicate U.S. foreign relations, sometimes jeopardizing interests far more important than “justice,” deterrence, and the prosecution of a single individual. "

...Such conduct, however, raises prospects of other nations using similar tactics against U.S. citizens."

 

[Icarusintel]

and so have the ramifications of such a policy

point taken... it is a dangerous game and the US gov't is gambling with a lot when they do it, but i think if there was a good reason (not really in this case) like Osama bin Laden was found in one country but their gov't wouldn;t hand him over I would be willing to condone such actions

 

[CptStern]

point taken... it is a dangerous game and the US gov't is gambling with a lot when they do it, but i think if there was a good reason (not really in this case) like Osama bin Laden was found in one country but their gov't wouldn;t hand him over I would be willing to condone such actions

ya but the point is that they are purposefully rendering prisoners to countries where they'll knowingly be tortured ...it's like they're sub-contracting interrogations to countries with less than stellar human rights track records because there's too much to gain: non-complicity (false asumption) to torture, and a means of circumventing international law