Izzies storm aid ship headed for Gaza

No Limit said:
So none of the people here that were quick to give Israel a nice juicy blow job have anything to say about Israel tampering with evidence? Or does it still boil down to Israel = good / everyone that questions that = bad?
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Well, at least we weren't called a Nazi or Anti-Semetic. Over at www.thatguywiththeglasses.com I use to post there and anytime I was critical of Israel I was called a Nazi and anti-semetic constantly.

Here's another interesting article, "IDF admits doctoring audio of raid on Gaza flotilla":

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0606/idf-admits-doctoring-audio-gaza-flotilla/

And people actually believe the IDF is truthful and honest?!
 
While this was a horrendous blunder by IDF forces, the crew of the Marvi Marve is at fault here. You guys just don't get it. Amazing media spin on this: "Fired on the ship","Executioners","Murderers.","Illegal Blockade","Illegal Piracy","State sponsored Terror", etc.

The blockade of Gaza by Israel and Egypt is legal as an act of war. Hamas and Israel are at war.

Israel and Egypt are legally obligated to list all items which are contraband so that other items (like aid) may pass through to Gaza - and they have done so.

The Marvi Marve is obligated to take this aid through the proper channels (the proper port) to be inspected and distributed to the people of Gaza. They did not. They were belligerent and refused to comply.

International waters or not makes no difference, there is no dispute of the fact that this ship "Marvi Marve" was attempting to break the blockade. "Negative, negative. We are going to Gaza."

The Israeli elite commandos deployed onto the ship with riot guns (paintball guns), and a sidearm "to be used as a last resort". Upon landing on the ship in the attempted commandeering, the IDF soldiers were ambushed, beaten, disarmed, and held hostage.

Although it's unfortunate for everyone, it's no wonder then, that IDF soldiers opened fire to reclaim their captive soldiers and to take command of the ship. Quite a few of the passengers on the Marvi Marve decided to resist and fight.
 
You keep talking about all this other stuff that doesn't matter. The reason it doesn't matter is you because don't know anything about what happened. For all we know everything you just said about what happened on that boat could be a lie (and I would say it's likely that its a lie). Israel is tampering with the evidance. They seized all videos taken on that ship, hours of it. They then edited it down to about a minute which made them look good. So any assumptions you are making off highly edited tapes released by a side with a very obvious agenda are just that, assumptions. You keep ignoring me when I point this out to you.

So I ask you again, why is Israel tampering with evidance if they have nothing to hide? Release the videos and let the world decide what happened. But they won't do that, that means they are hiding something. 9 people died, 30 total were hit (2 of them american citizens), this isn't a minor thing, it's pretty ****ing serious. Those videos do not belong to them, yet they won't give them back. And we already saw in this thread how Israel was releasing misleading photos taken totally out of context.

Knowing all this why are you so quick to lie for them? This is something I would like your answer on as this reminds me a lot of religion. People will defend their religion no matter how much evidance exists to the contrary, you are doing the exact same thing with this issue.
 
No Limit said:
You keep talking about all this other stuff that doesn't matter. The reason it doesn't matter is you because don't know anything about what happened. For all we know everything you just said about what happened on that boat could be a lie (and I would say it's likely that its a lie).
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No Limit, I made that comment in response to the breaking news and stories and videos that you guys posted -- the Irish Palestinian who says he captured and disarmed two IDF soldiers. Also, the recovered ~10 minute video recorded by the Pro-Palestinians as the IDF helicopter was circling and attempting to board the ship. You can clearly hear paintball guns being fired. You guys posted this.

No Limit said:
Israel is tampering with the evidance. They seized all videos taken on that ship, hours of it. They then edited it down to about a minute which made them look good. So any assumptions you are making off highly edited tapes released by a side with a very obvious agenda are just that, assumptions.

Knowing all this why are you so quick to lie for them? This is something I would like your answer on as this reminds me a lot of religion. People will defend their religion no matter how much evidance exists to the contrary, you are doing the exact same thing with this issue. You keep ignoring me when I point this out to you.

So I ask you again, why is Israel tampering with evidance if they have nothing to hide? Release the videos and let the world decide what happened. But they won't do that, that means they are hiding something. 9 people died, 30 total were hit (2 of them american citizens), this isn't a minor thing, it's pretty ****ing serious. Those videos do not belong to them, yet they won't give them back. And we already saw in this thread how Israel was releasing misleading photos taken totally out of context.
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No Limit, you have been putting words in my mouth, making assumptions about my intentions, calling anyone who doesn't believe verbatim the holy gospel of the Pro-Palestinians "Israel dick suckers" and calling me a liar.

Honestly, what makes you think that deserves a response? Take what people say at face value. And think with your brain and not with your heart.

I've been "ignoring you" for a number of reasons. I've got things to do outside of arguing. I don't have the answers, what do I look like? I don't have time to read through pages of walls of text to argue everything here, either. Many of the things you say are just as made up and assumed as you claim mine are. I'm not "attempting to cover everything up". I call it like I see it. It's true I don't believe that Israel is just some evil Terminators like yourself - I don't think that makes me misguided, on the contrary. Israel is not a bunch of angels, I never said as much. I did say "there are no good guys here." There is no innocent country in all of this world. Not even close.

I posted breaking news that some photos were recovered that show the beat up soldier and you claim I'm trying to mislead everything, but I posted no information of my own there. And, I mean honestly, do you think he beat himself up and laid down on the floor? So at least you believe that much right - you can clearly see he had been stripped of his armor and weapons and he was injured. You can infer some things from such a photo. Again, I didn't say anything but quoted the article - the only one available at the time.

I know as little or as much as any of you. I happen to believe that the Pro Palestinians are stretching the truth just as much. Two sides to the story are both full of shit.

And it surprises me that you expect Israel to release confiscated media that is currently under investigation. It seems standard procedure, but what do I know. Should they release it to Youtube, etc.? I'm not sure that's the proper way to deal with it. I think the international community should push for an international investigation. That has the best chance for an unbiased result. We can agree on that, so stop automatically assuming the worst of me. They may be planning to release it after investigating it (or tampering with it, unfortunately). Keep in mind it took like 3 years to get the US government to release 9/11 media that was under investigation, as an example.

You want to know my intentions? I want peace and stability in the Middle East. My only vested interest in this conflict is a preference for peace in the region. I personally don't care who possesses which plot of land or what religion someone worships or any of that. I'm an atheist from America.

What I see is the all the pieces in place for World War 3 ... or peace. It's up to all the people. But for peace, something has to give. If nations keep retaliating for the past, the fighting will continue indefinitely. And it's really tragic, because this is what it looks to do.
 
Don't bullshit and try to excuse this by saying you don't have time to discuss the main issue here, you seem to have plenty of time to talk about things that fit your agenda.

How is it standard procedure to tamper with evidance right after 9 people were killed and 30 injured? Your statement that they don't want to release video part of an investigation is simply not true, they did release some of it (parts that fit their agenda). You keep insisting that Israel is not the one to blame. But you are basing this on nothing more than on evidance that was heavily edited (aka tampered with) by a side that clearly has an agenda. Why would you believe someone that is hiding evidance? You say Palestine supporters are full of shit when you have nothing to back that up. We have very consistent eye-witness testimony from people on board that said Israel fired on people unprovoked, but the video that could prove or disprove these accounts is being hidden from us. You think if Israel had video disproving these accounts they wouldn't quickly release it to show what liars these people were?

You keep talking about an international investigation. That won't happen because Israel doesn't want an international investigation. Again, why? Because they know they ****ed up. And they are releasing propaganda in place of actual evidance because of the fact that they ****ed up.

I want peace and stability in the middle east too. I also want to win a million dollars and get head from a different super model each night. But life is more complicated than that, so is the world. Peace and stability in the middle east won't come for a long time. And many sides share the blame for that, but you seem to want to dismiss the fact that Israel shares a lot of that responsibility. When they board a ship in international waters killing 9 innocent people then covering up the evidance they are a big part of the problem. Same when they bomb cities because of a huge overreaction killing thousands, including memebers of the UN then covering up evidance that shows they were in the wrong (see a pattern here?).

I despise what Hezbollah does, just as I despise what the Israeli government does. Yet you seem to want to excuse everything Israel does while pointing all the blame at people that want Palestinians treated fairly.

I edited this post a bit after rereading it to make my point a bit clearer and to make sure I addressed all your points. Sorry
 
Only thing I want to add is that saying "there are no good guys" does not excuse any actions and is a statement without any substance. Of course there is no "entirely good" country, but there sure us shit are countries (or governments, which would be a more applicable term) that are a lot worse than others. For example, killing people is generally recognised as a bad thing to do, which the Israeli government is responsible for on a very large scale with justifications largely based upon religious principles.

I recommend you take a look at Likud's official platform.
The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values.
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There will never be a compromise because they believe it is their God-given right to settle that land. This is the fanaticism that the country is currently being run under.
 
I think we should close this thread since it makes people that usually get along fight,This makes me a sad panda :(
 
I don't recall Israel using religious justification for the blockade of Gaza etc?

If anything, they try to use political justifications for it, claiming they're only protecting their borders and defending their citizens and do not mean to harm civilian Gazans in any way.
 
Gargantou said:
I don't recall Israel using religious justification for the blockade of Gaza etc?

If anything, they try to use political justifications for it, claiming they're only protecting their borders and defending their citizens and do not mean to harm civilian Gazans in any way.
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The whole Idea behind a "Jewish state of Israel" is religiously motivated bro....and I doubt this will ever get better.
 
unozero said:
The whole Idea behind a "Jewish state of Israel" is religiously motivated bro....and I doubt this will ever get better.
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Yes, I was just saying I don't recall them outright stating they have religious excuses for doing the blockade etc?

But yes, Israel is a quite crazy nation(if we look past human rights violations), did you know the whole "automatic Jewish citizenship into Israel" law only applies if you're a Jew who haven't renounced your faith?

I.e., even if you're ethnically Jewish(since the term jew applies to an ethnic group as well as a religious one), you are not granted automatic citizenship unless you adhere to some form of the Jewish faith.

That's what I recall anyway.
 
They haven't outright stated the blockage is religiously motivated, but their reasons for settlinging in Gaza in the first place are. I repeat:
The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting.
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