John McCain no better than bush

Oh, that's just what my country needs, another warmonger
 
Anyone mind typing out a transcript?
 
I havent seen it all but from what I gather after being asked what to do with iran McCain sings "bomb bomb bomb, Iran" to the tune of a beach boys song ..ba-ba-barbara ann"
 
Meh, McCain flip-flops on everything, he's as bad as John Kerry, next he'll be saying we should act like pink fluffy bunnies and talk out our differences with Iran.

Old news, lol.
 
I saw him when he came to VMI to speak. As a somewhat conservative (not nearly as much anymore) Republican, I could never vote for the man. That, and his speech sucked.
 
I'm not a rabid McCain supporter or anything, but I don't see anything particularly bad in that first video. Thats obviously a fairly small little informal (I'm guessing "Town Hall") type meeting in the first video and McCain cracks a silly joke when someone asks him a loaded question. We don't even see what (or if) he answers because it cuts off.

And the second video isn't exactly a source I'd trust.
 
McCain lost it a while back ago. I really don't understand what happened, the Bush administration must have something on him. He used to be a lot more rational.
 
No Limit said:
McCain lost it a while back ago. I really don't understand what happened, the Bush administration must have something on him. He used to be a lot more rational.
Click to expand...

Well, he can't be seen to be too moderate or he'd have trouble getting through the primaries.
 
Personally?

I think you're all losing it. You're reading far too much into a short 40-second clip that - as far as I can tell - was just a joking response to a loaded question.

I have to say I'm starting to get quite annoyed by the "left" side of this forum. Prior to this video, he was getting a fair amount of praise and respect, despite disagreement with his views. But the moment the words "Bomb" and "Iran" show up in the same sentence, the kneejerk response is "OMG WARMONGER DOUCHE BAG ASS RIGHT-WING IDIOT". For the ****ing love of god, just calm down. And this is coming from somebody who, for the most part, identifies with liberal ideas.

As for Iran? You know, I have nothing fundamentally against going to war with them.
 
Absinthe said:
Personally?

I think you're all losing it. You're reading far too much into a short 40-second clip that - as far as I can tell - was just a joking response to a loaded question.

I have to say I'm starting to get quite annoyed by the "left" side of this forum. Prior to this video, he was getting a fair amount of praise and respect, despite disagreement with his views. But the moment the words "Bomb" and "Iran" show up in the same sentence, the kneejerk response is "OMG WARMONGER DOUCHE BAG ASS RIGHT-WING IDIOT". For the ****ing love of god, just calm down. And this is coming from somebody who, for the most part, identifies with liberal ideas.

As for Iran? You know, I have nothing fundamentally against going to war with them.
Click to expand...

Well, speaking for myself I wasnt basing my reaction on the original video - its pretty clear he's just messing around. I was more concerned with the 'ew gays' and sucking up to Jerry Falwell in the video Solaris posted.
 
Absinthe said:
Personally?

I think you're all losing it. You're reading far too much into a short 40-second clip that - as far as I can tell - was just a joking response to a loaded question.

I have to say I'm starting to get quite annoyed by the "left" side of this forum. Prior to this video, he was getting a fair amount of praise and respect, despite disagreement with his views. But the moment the words "Bomb" and "Iran" show up in the same sentence, the kneejerk response is "OMG WARMONGER DOUCHE BAG ASS RIGHT-WING IDIOT". For the ****ing love of god, just calm down. And this is coming from somebody who, for the most part, identifies with liberal ideas.

As for Iran? You know, I have nothing fundamentally against going to war with them.
Click to expand...

You know of anyone around here that respected McCain before this latest outburst? Just who might that be?

In the last month or so he has said the streets of Baghdad are safe to walk on unarmed and unprotected, he couldn't anwser a simple question about HIV prevention; the straight talk express had to answer instead "I'll get back to you on what my position in this matter is". A few months back on Hardball he first said he supported civil unions, they went to a commercial break during which he talked with his advisors. After they came back from the break he suddenly had a change of heart, suddenly he stopped the questions from Matthews to make it clear he did not support gays in any way, shape, or form.

This has been happening for well over a year now, so please, tell me. Who before this latest idiotic outbreak from him did you know that supported this asshole? I'd love to have a talk with them.

And you'd like to invade Iran? You don't ever learn a damn thing from previous mistakes, do you?
 
Absinthe said:
Personally?

I think you're all losing it. You're reading far too much into a short 40-second clip that - as far as I can tell - was just a joking response to a loaded question.

I have to say I'm starting to get quite annoyed by the "left" side of this forum. Prior to this video, he was getting a fair amount of praise and respect, despite disagreement with his views. But the moment the words "Bomb" and "Iran" show up in the same sentence, the kneejerk response is "OMG WARMONGER DOUCHE BAG ASS RIGHT-WING IDIOT". For the ****ing love of god, just calm down. And this is coming from somebody who, for the most part, identifies with liberal ideas.

As for Iran? You know, I have nothing fundamentally against going to war with them.
Click to expand...


i've never liked McCain

and look, McCain was on a CAMPAIGN stop and was fielding questions from the audience ..the fact that he even answered that deranged question is enough to call into question his true opinion when it comes to iran

who in their right mind would joke after hearing this question:

'How many times do we have to prove that these people are blowing up people now, nevermind if they get a nuclear weapon, when do we send 'em an airmail message to Tehran?''

personally I would have asked security to remove the crazy and have him beaten in the alley


it is just appalling that people would push for another war based on what exactly? WMD? obviously americans havent learned a goddam thing from the invasion of iraq which to this day has produced nothing except a huge body count

what possible reasoning could you have for supporting a war with Iran?
 
NoLimit, just go. This forum was better off without your harping at everything.
 
Absinthe said:
NoLimit, just go. This forum was better off without your harping at everything.
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What, are you offended at what I said? You can't take some slight criticism thrown at what you say? You are the one that said you are getting sick of the "left" around here. I expected more from you, I honestly did. Oh well, not the first time I was disappointed by a member here.
 
It's not the criticism. It's that you automatically talk like anybody who disagrees with you is a ****ing idiot. I have no inclination to engage in discourse at this point with people who are so quick to assume I must be retarded. It's too exhausting.
 
Absinthe said:
It's not the criticism. It's that you automatically talk like anybody who disagrees with you is a ****ing idiot. I have no inclination to engage in discourse at this point with people who are so quick to assume I must be retarded. It's too exhausting.
Click to expand...

I never assumed such thing and didn't mean it to come out that way. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I think you're an idiot. It just kind of dissapointed me that you would respond in such a way.
 
I don't think No Limits out of order in the slightest here.

/Neutral observer
 
Solaris said:
I don't think No Limits out of order in the slightest here.

/Neutral observer
Click to expand...

To be fair I have this conversation with people every time I come back. The reason for this is I do tend to get a little heated in these types of conversations. hasn't happened yet, I don't think, but it will probably happen sooner or later.
 
CptStern said:
what possible reasoning could you have for supporting a war with Iran?
Click to expand...

Time for regime change bitch!

But seriously though, they should invade. They should've invaded Iran instead of Iraq.
 
Gunner said:
Time for regime change bitch!
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so iran who poses no real danger to anybody except it's own people should be plunged into all out war just because a few hotheads decide specific indivduals are worth casualties in the 10's of thousands ...life is indeed cheap for some of you ..hopefully no one in your lifetime will think the same way about you

oh and after Iran's regime change it's off to Ethiopia to get rid of the murderous warlords right? after that it's off to somalia to remove the government as they're aiding in the massacres ...followed by removal of Putin for oppressing chechnyans, removal of Chirac because he's oppressing muslim youth who want to wear headbands ...Bush for oppressing gays, evolutionists, the sane etc etc

oh btw regime change is illegal ..Iran is a sovereign nation

Gunner said:
But seriously though, they should invade. They should've invaded Iran instead of Iraq.
Click to expand...



you people really havent learned a thing for iraq/9/11 ..if you do invade iraq over WMD you deserve everything you get ...if there's a series of 9/11 style retaliatory attacks now or in the future you'll only have yourselves to blame for inviting them to your doorstep ...the victems might not deserve what they get however america as a whole does for starting wars without justification ..mark my words, this wont be a cake walk ..many iranians dont like Ahmadinejad however to a man they will die for their country ..you're opening up a pandora's box which you have no control over. you cant control an Iraq that was already reeling after 2 wars and crippling sanctions what makes you think you'd succeed in iran? regime change will just lead to someone worse holding the reigns of power ..you'd think after Mossadeq you'd have learned that particular lesson when it comes to iran, obviously not
 
CptStern said:
oh btw regime change is illegal ..Iran is a sovereign nation
Click to expand...

Well it's not like it stopped them before from meddling in Iran.

you cant control an Iraq that was already reeling after 2 wars and crippling sanctions what makes you think you'd succeed in iran?
Click to expand...

Because they would be greeted as liberators?
 
just like they were greeted as liberators in Iraq? that didnt turn out all that well now did it?
 
Gunner said:
Well it's not like it stopped them before from meddling in Iran.



Because they would be greeted as liberators?
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You really think that?

It's a democratic country, why would they greet an army that removes their government as liberators?
 
No I don't really think that. You people only understand jokes when there's a smiley or an animated gif of a monkey or something.

And no Solaris, it's not a democratic country.

I'd just like to see all the mollahs and ayatollahs and their families die.
 
I'd just like to see all the mollahs and ayatollahs and their families die.
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Their families? You heartless biggot.
 
Solaris said:
Their families? You heartless biggot.
Click to expand...

Why? Why does that make me a bigot? These people are preaching intolerance day and night, telling people how to live, what to do, what not to, what rights they have, what rights they don't have. Yet they're living it large. With mansions across Iran, summer houses in Canada, Switzerland, South America, and other places. They send their kids to private schools and prestigious universities abroad, while the rest of the country is either unemployed or in poverty.

You don't know these people. They've been stealing from the state ever since the revolution. They've been stuffing their pockets with oil money for decades now. Most of them have dual citizenships, mostly Canadian passports. You see, they're smart too, they're ready to pack up and leave if the shit hits the fan.
 
Gunner said:
No I don't really think that. You people only understand jokes when there's a smiley or an animated gif of a monkey or something.
Click to expand...

are you not originally from Iran? hard to see it as a joke when you're talking about your own people
 
CptStern said:
are you not originally from Iran? hard to see it as a joke when you're talking about your own people
Click to expand...

The joke was "greeted as liberators" thing, I wasn't joking when I said they should invade Iran. Because waiting for something to "happen from the inside" will never happen.
 
the last coup was disastrous ..it paved the way for death squads (Savak) and the islamic revolution ...all for retaining a stranglehold on one of the worlds most prosperous oil producing nations


are you willing for 10's of thosands of Iranians to die just to get rid of a handful of people? you must not love your place of origin all that much
 
When I said I had no fundamental opposition to a war with Iran, I did not say I'd necessarily support one. Such a thing depends on the context. But I do not trust oppressive theocracies, and in all honesty I think everybody should be very leery of any nation that so heavily embraces fundamentalist Islam acquiring nuclear technology. We can wax on and on about the equality of sovereign states, but that will sound very hollow if there's one day a mushroom cloud or two somewhere in the world.

If anybody thinks I'm setting a double standard for the United States, let me be clear. I think it's very disturbing that the most powerful, advanced, and nuclear-armed nation in the world is being run by fundamentalist Christians. If research polls and surveys are to be believed, half of the nation believes in the Apocalypse and the second coming of Christ. If we are to assume these beliefs are sincere, then global nuclear warfare would be seen as a great thing by many Americans, and that includes those in government/military positions. I don't want anybody with even the slightest itchy trigger finger having the power to authorize the use of nuclear arms. While I do believe that the USA has more capacity to resist such a temptation today than Iran does, these are still very dangerous sentiments to be having in the world, especially with how far we've come in terms of our ability to destroy.

However, we cannot unmake the nuclear bomb. It is here with us to stay, or at least until something better comes along. I see no point in exacerbating the problem by allowing the proliferation of nuclear weapons under some naive notion of fairness. You don't **** around with weapons of mass destruction like they're toys. These are devices with the potential to kill thousands or millions of people with the ease of a phone call. To operate under the idea that all nations have entitlement is just a disaster waiting to happen. Nations need to prove that they are able to handle such weapons maturely, and I do not believe that Iran qualifies in that regard.

If history shows in time that Iran had no intention of developing and using nuclear weapons, so be it. But if their nuclear program does indeed go towards the production of WMDs, and they even begin hinting at using them as leverage or as some coercive method, then it's time to take off the kid gloves. I really couldn't care about regime change, as I'm more concerned with the threat posed to the international community. MAD worked well in the Cold War because on both sides of the fence there were rational players that didn't want to see such massive destruction. But that entire philosophy goes out the window when you get players who are all too willing to call your bluff, even if does come at their own destructive expense. Before one can even consider granting a nation the right to develop nuclear weapons, we need to have a very serious and very honest discussion about intent.

Sam Harris' hypothetical of "the perfect weapon" is an excellent way of looking into this. Let's say there is a weapon that has the ability to completely avoid collateral damage. It has the ability to take out targets cleanly and with unnecessary casualties. As screwed up as the United States is, we can say with reasonable certainty that it would not be used indiscriminately. Our blundering military foreign policy aside, it is ridiculous to think that the USA enjoys killing non-combatants and wasting money. We'd be all for a more efficient method.

But in the hands of a fundamentalist Islamic state? That's quite troublesome. When blasphemy is still considered a crime in a nation, you need to realize that these people are serious about whatever fantasy ideologies they have. If such a weapon were put in the hands of such a person, what are the chances that he wouldn't just target military or government leaders, but also "infidels", those he considers morally bankrupt, other religious figureheads, and so forth? It may not be a certainty, but I can guarantee you that the chances of it happening are far greater than that of the United States. When your entire region has a track record of utilizing methods aimed at maximizing non-combatant deaths, I do not think it is wise to have nuclear technology bestowed on you, unless you're some grand, shining exception.

No Limit, I apologize for my reply to you. The Politics section just makes me very snappy frequently.
 
Iran has no capability ..not in the foreseeable future ..and the war on terror increased the likelihood of nuclear wepons program ..if you're in the crosshairs what better way to give yourself some bargaining room then a nuclear weapon? notice how NK has been relatively unscathed despite the fact that they are working on nuclear weapons
 
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