Karl Rove is the source

[seinfeldrules]

Tsk tsk gh0st, its democraticunderground.com, not cnn.

 

[gh0st]

Tsk tsk gh0st, its democraticunderground.com, not cnn.

du.com = communist news network

 

[Pesmerga]

I agree.

 

[gh0st]

I agree.

I agree more

 

[No Limit]

If he is guilty of being a traitor then he deserves to be fired. If not, then he broke no rule and doesnt deserve to be punished just because Democrats say he should be. That is NOT the way things work.

Why is it so hard for you to simply say yes or no. Do you dispute Rove talked to reporters about Plame's identity. Ignore everything else, I just want to know this. If you don't dispute it we can take this a step at a time so I can show you how he knew she was undercover. And I don't know all the facts yet but I want you to admit to everything we know; that way when the grand jury investigation is complete in October we can take it from there and you wont be able to spin their findings; you right wingers are really good at doing that.

 

[No Limit]

lol @ no limit comparing the rove non-issue to OJ simpson's fiasco.

you dont give a shit what the law says? so you base george bush's press secretary above the courts? you've already made your mind up no limit. no matter how wrong it is just CLING to those talking points like one of those talking heads on cnn.. you are very good at it. especially ironic given that the courts are the only way to inject your idiotic thoughts into the american mainstream. yay for institutionalized liberalism!!

You keep saying this stuff but you haven't been able to disprove that Rove talked to reporters about the identity of Plame. You also haven't been able to disprove that Bush lied when he said he would fire anyone in his administration that did this.

And only in the right wingers mind would disclosing an undercover agent's identity to reporters and compromise intelligence gathering on WMDs be a non-issue (but only if the agent is a democrat, all other public servents are heros).

 

[CptStern]

No Limit, I think you've more than exposed the right's hypocrisy ...had it been a democrat these same people would be screaming for his execution

good job :thumbs:

 

[No Limit]

No Limit, I think you've more than exposed the right's hypocrisy ...had it been a democrat these same people would be screaming for his execution

good job :thumbs:

I think I need to stop responding to everything, they just keep spinning their wheels in circles and it takes away from my main point, that they are a bunch of hypocrites that will defend a traitor as long as that traitor is a Republican. Let them wait for their investigation to complete, only about 15% of Americans actually believe their bullshit about Rove according to the latest polls. I just can't stand the fact that they would support something like this.

 

[CptStern]

I agree ...sometimes it's hard to detach yourself from the plague of hypocrisy ...I mean how anyone could possibly still support the war/bush is beyond me ...those same people think having an affair is far worse then lying to invade a nation

there's no converting the inconvertible

 

[Raziaar]

I agree ...sometimes it's hard to detach yourself from the plague of hypocrisy

I've detached it from myself long ago. Are you still having trouble Stern? I can help you out.

 

[No Limit]

I agree ...sometimes it's hard to detach yourself from the plague of hypocrisy ...I mean how anyone could possibly still support the war/bush is beyond me ...those same people think having an affair is far worse then lying to invade a nation

there's no converting the inconvertible

The reason I'm so passionate about it though is they know how to get their lies out there. The American people don't care about issues, they are swayed by catch phrases. Have you ever heard a right winger try to get the truth out? Where was the right wing when 80% (I think it was 80, I need to double check) of Fox News viewers believed Saddam was directly tied to 9/11. Where was the right wing when the RNC released a bunch of absolute lies on the Plame affair as I pointed out on this board. Where was the right wing when their leaders were saying Schiavo was responding to visual stimuli based on an internet video they saw, as we now know, and what everyone else knew then, this would not have been possible as she was blind. Where is the right wing when Bush says he will fire someone involved in a leak and then he flips his position as the person is too important to him.

It's a sad country we live in. How are you guys doing in Canada? According to the right wing this country would be taken over by a bunch of freedom-hating communists if the left wing became the majorty; just want to make sure you guys are okay.

 

[CptStern]

The reason I'm so passionate about it though is they know how to get their lies out there.

heheh I'm the wrong person to be saying this too cuz I agree with you 200% :thumbs:

The American people don't care about issues, they are swayed by catch phrases. Have you ever heard a right winger try to get the truth out? Where was the right wing when 80% (I think it was 80, I need to double check) of Fox News viewers believed Saddam was directly tied to 9/11. Where was the right wing when the RNC released a bunch of absolute lies on the Plame affair as I pointed out on this board. Where was the right wing when their leaders were saying Schiavo was responding to visual stimuli based on an internet video they saw, as we now know, and what everyone else knew then, this would not have been possible as she was blind. Where is the right wing when Bush says he will fire someone involved in a leak and then he flips his position as the person is too important to him.

I guess they dont want to examine the facts because that would mean that their entire world would crumble around them ...they NEED to believe that their government is doing the right thing ...to admit otherwise would be tantamount to admitting their whole ideology is out of sorts

It's a sad country we live in. How are you guys doing in Canada? According to the right wing this country would be taken over by a bunch of freedom-hating communists if the left wing became the majorty; just want to make sure you guys are okay.

well, we did have a protest against same sex marriage in June that was attended by 15,000 religious fanatics ...and Alberta is a lost cause cuz of their stanch conservatism ...but for the most part canadians are not as political motivated as americans ..we usually dont vote based on party affiliations ...it's quite common for people to vote conservative in one election and liberal in another. much like the US their isnt all that much difference between the liberals (liberal PARTY) and conservatives (conservative PARTY) in canada ....although our conservatives are nowhere near as extreme as in the US

 

[seinfeldrules]

No Limit, I think you've more than exposed the right's hypocrisy ...had it been a democrat these same people would be screaming for his execution

good job

And if this was a certain Democrat, ohhhh say Sandy Berger, you would be saying the same things we are.

According to the right wing this country would be taken over by a bunch of freedom-hating communists if the left wing became the majorty; just want to make sure you guys are okay.

And according to the left, the right wing is merely a group of people who have never made an honest living. We are also a pretty monolithic party. We all behave the same. We all look the same. It's pretty much a white Christian party."

Get off the high horse bud.

they NEED to believe that their government is doing the right thing ...to admit otherwise would be tantamount to admitting their whole ideology is out of sorts

Just as you NEED to believe our government is never doing the right thing ...to admit otherwise would be tantamount to admitting their whole ideology is out of sorts

 

[No Limit]

And if this was a certain Democrat, ohhhh say Sandy Berger, you would be saying the same things we are.

No, I already disproved this. I think what Berger did was wrong; stop repeating it. And I am speaking for myself here but I also doubt Stern is going to defend an advisor to a american president.

And according to the left, the right wing is merely a group of people who have never made an honest living. We are also a pretty monolithic party. We all behave the same. We all look the same. It's pretty much a white Christian party."

Outside of the honest living part you are dead on. You don't have a single black member in congress. Congress is what represents your party. Democrats have many blacks.

Just as you NEED to believe our government is never doing the right thing ...to admit otherwise would be tantamount to admitting their whole ideology is out of sorts

Not this "you hate america" bullshit again. I posted mountains of lies from the right wing, you didn't condamn any of it. Lets try this, do you support what Frist said about Schiavo?

 

[Raziaar]

Outside of the honest living part you are dead on. You don't have a single black member in congress. Congress is what represents your party. Democrats have many blacks.

Many many many african american neighborhoods and families are rather religious, whether it be catholic, or christian.

I'm happy to say we cater much more to these groups than the democratic/liberal side... which just 'screams' anti-religious rhetoric. You'd think people so big on civil rights would be in support of the practice of religion... but most I talk to don't respect religion at all and speak out against it.

 

[No Limit]

Many many many african american neighborhoods and families are rather religious, whether it be catholic, or christian.

I'm happy to say we cater much more to these groups than the democratic/liberal side... which just 'screams' anti-religious rhetoric. You'd think people so big on civil rights would be in support of the practice of religion... but most I talk to don't respect religion at all and speak out against it.

I don't know what religion has to do with blacks, like I said, Republicans don't have a single elected black official in congress, both house and senate and I'm not even sure if there are any other black elected (not appointed) officials that are republican.

Second, your classification of liberals being anti-religious is a bunch of bullshit. Sure, there are some on the liberal side that hate religion as there are some on the conservative side that bomb abortion clinics. But mostly liberals don't have a problem with religion, we simply don't whore the bible for political gains. How many times does Jesus talk about paying taxes and helping the poor? Why do Republicans only listen to the anti-gay stuff (which is disputed between scholars) and not listen to that? Why do Republicans get divorced (I think they have a higher divorce rate than Democrats but I will have to double check that) when that is clearly a sin that will send you to hell?

 

[seinfeldrules]

I think what Berger did was wrong

Did you think so during the investigation?

Outside of the honest living part you are dead on. You don't have a single black member in congress. Congress is what represents your party. Democrats have many blacks.

You disgust me. With people like you supporting the Dems you will never win again.

Not this "you hate america" bullshit again. I posted mountains of lies from the right wing, you didn't condamn any of it. Lets try this, do you support what Frist said about Schiavo?

I dont give a rat's ass about Schiavo. That whole thing was pointless. You are merely out there to bash everything and anything Bush does. Dont try to place that blame on me.

 

[Raziaar]

A sin that can send you to hell? <chuckles> Even a killer can be forgiven by god.

And as for what religion has to do with black people... nothing too much. Except for the fact that african history is full of religion, just like most places in the world, and how the right side is far more accepting of religion.

And I agree, i'm sure most liberals are tolerant of religion... but there is a big mouth on your side that is giving voice to their extreme hatred of religion. What with people saying religion should be abolished, etc etc etc.


Ohhh, and you know, on top of that all... Lets stop classifying 'blacks' as a means for political gains. "We have more blacks than you!" They're people... they are deserving of that status.

 

[CptStern]

Just as you NEED to believe our government is never doing the right thing ...to admit otherwise would be tantamount to admitting their whole ideology is out of sorts

prove me wrong

 

[seinfeldrules]

prove me wrong

America is the leading contributor of charity across the globe (under any administration). We help provide billions of dollars to fight AIDs and natural disasters. We also stick up for our allies (Kuwait as an example). A main priority of administrations is to put an end to the fighting between Israel and Palestine. Those are just a few of the great things the United States does. Whether or not you can accept that is up to you. Again, you choose to focus on the negative, and ONLY the negative. If you focused on the positives your ideology would be proven wrong. You are clearly anti-American in nature, and I'm not saying that because you're a liberal. I have plenty of liberal friends who are great Americans that respect this country. I've debated/argued/conversed with you enough to know that it takes a miracle for you to say anything kind about this country. Even minutes after the London bombings you couldnt help but bash America. In the same post you expressed your sorrow, you attacked this country. You cannot help yourself.

 

[No Limit]

Did you think so during the investigation?

Yes, I did. I might have even posted my postition here, search around.

You disgust me. With people like you supporting the Dems you will never win again.

The truth disgusts you? Face it, blacks don't like your party and they never have. I don't know what you don't understand about this. If you want their support change your policies so they will find your positions appealing; if you don't want to do that dont sit there and cry when someone calls you the party of white christians; which you are.

I dont give a rat's ass about Schiavo. That whole thing was pointless. You are merely out there to bash everything and anything Bush does. Dont try to place that blame on me.

Bullshit. The Schiavo thing had nothing to do with Bush until he put himself in that position as he figured it would score him some political points. I was against the parents from the start; your party's politicians got in to themselves. And I could careless if you care or not, what you should care about is that people you defend were lying their asses off for political gain; my beef is mostly with Frist on that one.

You really seem to think that I will defend anyone that's a democrat which tells me you never pay attention to my posts. I am never going to vote for Hilary Clinton in the primaries, I didn't vote for Kerry in the primaries and think he is a political pussy as I said here, I had a stood up to democrats that bashed the pope when he died eventhough I was in the large minority there, and I will speak out when I think a democrat does wrong. I just wish you would do the same.

 

[CptStern]

America is the leading contributor of charity across the globe (under any administration). We help provide billions of dollars to fight AIDs and natural disasters.

cuz no one else does

We also stick up for our allies (Kuwait as an example).

not because saddam had turned on the US at that point, nope no self serving motives here

A main priority of administrations is to put an end to the fighting between Israel and Palestine.

by supplying israel with weapons ...ya I can see how you think it's one sided :upstare:

Those are just a few of the great things the United States does. Whether or not you can accept that is up to you. Again, you choose to focus on the negative, and ONLY the negative. If you focused on the positives your ideology would be proven wrong. You are clearly anti-American in nature, and I'm not saying that because you're a liberal. I have plenty of liberal friends who are great Americans that respect this country. I've debated/argued/conversed with you enough to know that it takes a miracle for you to say anything kind about this country. Even minutes after the London bombings you couldnt help but bash America. In the same post you expressed your sorrow, you attacked this country. You cannot help yourself.

shall I list the negative things the US has done? I bet they far out weigh the positive ...but no I'll let you fuill in the gaps ...so tell me ..how many south/central american countries benefited from american benelovance ...hmmm lets see....big fat zero?

 

[No Limit]

A sin that can send you to hell? <chuckles> Even a killer can be forgiven by god.

If you repent I guess maybe. This is the part that really doesn't make sense to me with the christian religion.

And as for what religion has to do with black people... nothing too much. Except for the fact that african history is full of religion, just like most places in the world, and how the right side is far more accepting of religion.

Lots of blacks are very passionate about religion, but they are smarter than most white christians because they can tell when someone is whoring the bible for their political gain. They are more concerned with real issues; they could careless about which politician claims God speaks to him.

And I agree, i'm sure most liberals are tolerant of religion... but there is a big mouth on your side that is giving voice to their extreme hatred of religion. What with people saying religion should be abolished, etc etc etc.

And as I pointed out above I have condamned those Democrats. I have no problem with people saying religion doesn't make sense to them but I do not support someone insulting another person because they are religious. By the same token I don't support white christians telling muslims they are all going to hell.

Ohhh, and you know, on top of that all... Lets stop classifying 'blacks' as a means for political gains. "We have more blacks than you!" They're people... they are deserving of that status.

It has nothing to do with using them for political gain. Dean was speaking a fact, that Republicans are mostly white christians and don't appeal to most people. He was not saying that Republicans are racists but if Republicans have a problem with this they need to change their policies.

 

[seinfeldrules]

cuz no one else does

I wonder if Canada even donates 5% of what we do.

not because saddam had turned on the US at that point, nope no self serving motives here

With you in charge Kuwait is still ruled by Saddam. Disgusting.

by supplying israel with weapons ...ya I can see how you think it's one sided

We supply Israel with weapons because they have been attacked since their birth. We attempt to create equal dialog between both sides.

shall I list the negative things the US has done?

I have no need for you to continue your anti-American rhetoric. We are not a perfect nation, nobody is. I, nor anyone else, will claim we are. You on the other hand throw us in the same category as nations such as NK. I view us as equals with nations like France, GB, Canada, and many others.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Dean was speaking a fact, that Republicans are mostly white christians and don't appeal to most people.

Did Republicans not get 40% of the hispanic vote? That may be right, may be wrong.

Bullshit. The Schiavo thing had nothing to do with Bush until he put himself in that position as he figured it would score him some political points. I was against the parents from the start; your party's politicians got in to themselves. And I could careless if you care or not, what you should care about is that people you defend were lying their asses off for political gain; my beef is mostly with Frist on that one.

Do you agree with anything Bush has done?

 

[No Limit]

America is the leading contributor of charity across the globe (under any administration). We help provide billions of dollars to fight AIDs and natural disasters. We also stick up for our allies (Kuwait as an example). A main priority of administrations is to put an end to the fighting between Israel and Palestine. Those are just a few of the great things the United States does. Whether or not you can accept that is up to you. Again, you choose to focus on the negative, and ONLY the negative. If you focused on the positives your ideology would be proven wrong. You are clearly anti-American in nature, and I'm not saying that because you're a liberal. I have plenty of liberal friends who are great Americans that respect this country. I've debated/argued/conversed with you enough to know that it takes a miracle for you to say anything kind about this country. Even minutes after the London bombings you couldnt help but bash America. In the same post you expressed your sorrow, you attacked this country. You cannot help yourself.

Stern has a point. I love this country and as I stated many times I would not live anywhere else in this world. But if you don't understand why so many people in other countries have a huge problem with us then there is no hope for you. And this is not only about Republicans eventhough the Iraq war didn't score us many points. Lets just leave Iraq out of it. Of all the things we have done we cater way too much to our selfish needs. You say we donated the most money, no we haven't, not even close. You have to look by GDP, not total. Our conflicts always seem self-centered and the American people as a whole have this tendency to believe we are the baddest mother ****ers on the planet. And yes, I am guilty of this too at times. What we need to do is get off our high horse and be part of the world community, not go out on our own. You can start by putting pressure on Bush and your Republican friends to support the UN and I'll be sure to codamn any Democrat that says killing half a million children in Iraq was worth it. Deal?

 

[No Limit]

Did Republicans not get 40% of the hispanic vote? That may be right, may be wrong.

Bush got 35% of hispanic vote in 2000 and 45% in the last election, you are pretty much dead on. But you are missing my point. Voters don't represent your party, your elected officals do. Show me how many black and hispanic elected officals are Republican; its a very low number. You can start by going to the senate site and looking at members; I can do this later when I get some time.

Do you agree with anything Bush has done?

Yes, I have in the past and I made some of those views public around here; Lebanon being one of them. But you have to understand, with the Republican party moving so far to the extreme right its hard to look past the bad things your party is doing and look at the good. Around 9/11 I supported our president like most people did, he could have used that political power to bring this country together; instead he decided he would divide us like we've never been divided before. Face it, Clinton had around 70%+ approval when he left, Bush will be lucky to have 50% (my guess it will be in the low 40s) in 08 when a new president comes in. As much as you like to deny it this doesn't have much to do with Democrats just being out to get him, he does share a lot of the blame. Sending Bolton to the UN despite not getting senate approval is a good example of this (and it is not the only example).

 

[seinfeldrules]

You can start by putting pressure on Bush and your Republican friends to support the UN and I'll be sure to codamn any Democrat that says killing half a million children in Iraq was worth it. Deal?

I put pressure on Bush by voting for who I want. I wont carry an agenda for 8 years because I lost. He hasnt done anything to deserve impeachment. Presidents get NO breathing room anymore from either side. That is a hinderance to this country. If the Dems win in '08 I wont ride that President's balls every two seconds. I'll make the best out of his/her decisions as long as that person is truly trying to help this country.

But if you don't understand why so many people in other countries have a huge problem with us then there is no hope for you.

I understand some of the hatred, but you need to understand that some of it is unjustified and merely a 'fad'.

You have to look by GDP, not total.

You also need to look at the citizen donations. I checked last year and we donated more to fighting AIDs in Africa than all of Europe combined.

Face it, Clinton had around 70%+ approval when he left, Bush will be lucky to have 50% (my guess it will be in the low 40s) in 08 when a new president comes in. As much as you like to deny it this doesn't have much to do with Democrats just being out to get him, he does share a lot of the blame. Sending Bolton to the UN despite not getting senate approval is a good example of this (and it is not the only example).

If I remember correctly Truman left with around a 40% rating and it turns out he was one of the most underrated Presidents in this century

 

[CptStern]

I understand some of the hatred, but you need to understand that some of it is unjustified and merely a 'fad'.

that comment more than any other comment you've made since I've been a member here illustrates how little you know about american foreign policy of the last 50 years ....reminds me why I've stopped debating you

 

[No Limit]

I put pressure on Bush by voting for who I want. I wont carry an agenda for 8 years because I lost. He hasnt done anything to deserve impeachment. Presidents get NO breathing room anymore from either side. That is a hinderance to this country. If the Dems win in '08 I wont ride that President's balls every two seconds. I'll make the best out of his/her decisions as long as that person is truly trying to help this country.

OKay, but Clinton certainly didn't deserve to be impeached but your party is still proud of that. I dont know what your position on it is but I wouldn't be suprised if you don't have a problem with what the Republicans did to Clinton. And I dont support impeaching Bush right now, what I want is simple answers to why he lied to go to Iraq. But the problem is Republicans wont admit Bush lied if their life depended on it. You can say you support the war but many lies were obvious, I can not understand why you won't admit it. And please, lets not get in to an Iraq debate here.

I understand some of the hatred, but you need to understand that some of it is unjustified and merely a 'fad'.

And I will agree. But we do the same thing. A lot of your dislike for Democrats is unjustified as probably a lot of my dislike for Republicans is. But most of the hate they have for us is fully justified and if you actually cared to pay attention you can hear why instead of just saying its a fad.

You also need to look at the citizen donations. I checked last year and we donated more to fighting AIDs in Africa than all of Europe combined.

That might be true, I honestly don't know as I only looked at government spending. But can you tell me when any of our government officials gave 'props' to any other country for helping out? I know that most American people think that we are the only ones in the world that help, infact I just had this discussion with my roomate who doesn't care about politics and she told me flat out that she thinks we are the only ones helping and she said other countries need to do their part. I hate to say it but she represents most of this country.

 

[seinfeldrules]

OKay, but Clinton certainly didn't deserve to be impeached but your party is still proud of that. I dont know what your position on it is but I wouldn't be suprised if you don't have a problem with what the Republicans did to Clinton.

I dont think it was right to attack him in the fashion that Republicans did. I think the Monica situation should have stayed out of it. However, he certainly shouldnt have lied under oath, but none of that would have happened if his private life were kept private. Its a huge circle.

From Clinton on I feel that the government has turned into WWI ( I wasnt around much before then) . So much effort is exerted to make every decision a battleground.