Keep or remove shield in CS:S?

[Daveh]

Ok stripping the shield down for you guys here is why it's bad.

From a Competetive Play perspective...
It gives a MASSIVE advantage to CTs. Imgine 5 players with shields. Unhittable with any gun. Pro gamers or decent gamers that have pistol aim that is second to none. They just have to sit there and stop the Ts coming close, and if they see an oppertunity, easy kill followed by instant protection from anyone trying to shoot back at you. Silly? I'd say so.

From a Public Play / Fun Play perspective...
Again same reasons as above, you can be almost un-killable, and combined shielders will always win provided its not a 24 man game or anything silly.

Think about new players, why give them an easy option to save themselves from getting killed over and over? They'll get bored faster as they're not exploring the game to it's fullest.

If you want CS:S to be a success you need to remove the shield because the games public play will flop. Competetive players (which are actually the backbone of your community, moreso in Europe i think though) will play public a lot when the game is released. If you have people running around with shields they'll soon get bored with the game and it'll cause a chain reaction causing the game to die.

Oh and to those who say they've never had a problem killing someone with a shield...
Try killing 5 people with shields who wont make a mistake and leave an opening. sorry but people saying that are trying to sound like they're "so good" and hold an invalid opinion.


If you MUSThave the shield... haver a server command to allow or disallow it being bought. This'll at least give a mix of public servers, and i'm actually willing to beat money that the No-Shield servers will outway the Shield servers. And no... people don't want to decrease the performance of their servers by running 3rd party server mods such as AMX to restrict weapons.


Note to VALVe: Forum posters on sites like this DO NOT represent your community mostly. Why do you keep basing what people want on peoples oppinions on such forums? That's not a good way to get in touch with your community. Be more selective.

On a side note to finish of my rant... VALVe charges cyber cafes licence fees (which very vey few other companies do) for it's Steam platform games. The players playing there are 99% of the time competetive players. yet VALVe still makes changes to the game that go against these players wishes, but dare continue to charge stupid license fees? Wake up please you're killing your own game!

People who disagree say what you will... As far as I care you're opinions are based on nothing. Thnx.

GL with HL2/CS:S/DOD:S VALVe and HF.

 

[redngd]

Some of my viewpoint

:cheers: " the shield can impede completely the positive gunning of any weapon in addition to hand thunder;From but make own a square( is usually CT square) of the shield can make use of the shield covers to push forward forward courageously but need not worry to suffer the disservice".This is the main reason that large player in now request cancel the shield.
The emergence of the shield broke originally possessed of aggression with equilibrium that defend, whether reserved the shield in CS1.6 with will soon the HL2 of a life time to arise in large player warmly of discussion, is to go to is to keep in mind to see different.
I have played in our country admission use the server of the shield for a period of time, met 3 persons on the usage in shield:
Category 1 is in spite of to all use at any time the shield is pure" shield fan", certainly this share the minority only;Category 2 casts aside the person of the shield completely, this type of person occupies the majority;Category 3 is that kind of speculation numerator, picked up the shield protection the oneself at the time of having no money, once the opportunity appear to throw down right away the shield makes change the rifle —— Among them more connect the shield to all loathe to give up to buy but picked up the shield to the person who wait for an opportunity.-_-......
From this, the shield is not very popular but too not has no market completely;How to make the esse of the shield broken the match a key problem for last equilibrium large player considering not to the extent of;Pass by with the other player a period of time of exchanges plus realize ownly, I want to follow the related design say my own viewpoint.
Request the noise of shouting that cancel the shield recently first gradually high, cancel the shield doubtless is tournament mode that a kind of choice, this also will be made at the same time the CS maintains the tradition.
If reserve the shield, I want to put forward below what time opinion:
Aim at the shield oneself first, should be further to increase the price of the shield can't make main tool for it to be used as square ECO in CT;
The protection of the shield should change from original completely resist to the part resists, making its at have the weapon that wear deeply the function shoots the bottom can still produce result but an effect for can resisting first part of disservice, this making shield can useding for defering the other party taking the offensive with prolonging user existing time, weakenning its conduct and actions bunker.Although the most people call the " flameproof shield" to it in reality the flameproof ability of the shield is very bad but the bullet-proof ability is top-grade, the total meaning is a suggestion design enhance its flameproof function but lower the bullet-proof function.Let again us say the person who take the shield, shield the oneself is to has no a feet of, join a" flameproof mode" in here me thought only of to took it everywhere ask for is person to living not made a little stipulation, at enter CS empress of purchase column, this mode can allow to enter that appearance at money player of attaining the flameproof mode request and spend him a part of moneys, enter the player a Human body for can purchasing revolver, shield with related and subsidiary product, other gun all prohibitting purchasing, and holding shield top of that mode can't hold the revolver unless he throw the shield away;Player that own the " flameproof mode" will own automatically 100 ammor without helmet , under the situation of hasing no gun can ten rise shield;
The shield of the relief protection appearance holds will be similar to suffer the whole disservice;That mode two squares all have.
Enter the " flameproof mode" for the common personnel who do not choose he won't can purchase the shield, and under any appearance can't ten rise shield;As if similar in merchandise in " flameproof mode" can at purchase the area choice enter, fore a the bureau chooses member of team of the " flameproof mode" if sacrifice, when the next bureau starts return to the common appearance;Own the " flameproof mode" continuously in the next bureau if its survive,,, this time he can choose to own that mode continuously to also can purchase at this square the area choice relief" flameproof mode" returns to the common appearance, the process of the relief since do not increase the money and also does not deduct the money.
If if this bureau breaks, the owner returns to the common appearance.
The organizer of the game can limit member of team who attend the game according to the concrete circumstance whether can use the " flameproof mode".
Say so much in fact is to added into a" flameproof mode".
Opposite in complete cancel shield this how much seem to be to have a little the complicacy, ising not have so a famous saying:" exsit of is reasonable".
I think that the design of HL that shield is also a crystallize strenuous efforts, do since an it does not let why it live of a little bit better.
This be worker who my individual's a little viewpoint for shield design project, hope for anything of help in HL with inspire,thanks very much for let me speaking!

 

[b0sH]

The shield in itself is to open for abuse, people are able to back themselves into impenetrable corners where the only method of reaching them is to boost one man on top of anothers head and while thats happening it is far too easy to pistol them down.

If your of the opinion that the shield should be a server controlled option then why not have a similar option for the awp quick switch, another change that has had much criticism and has taken much of the skill away from the weapon. No longer shall we see the likes of shaGuar + walle unzooming that last man in a desperate last ditch attempt at glory, sad that something like that has been taken away, one of the more exciting aspects of watching CS.

 

[Gunner]

You people are from CSN right? welcome

 

[Mayhem]

Keep the shield, I'm sure the new engine will be able to sort out the bugs and surely with the new engine people will be able to shoot any limbs that are on show, feet, arms etc which will mean that they can still take damage.

Just as long as snipers can't still get a kill by shooting a shielder in the foot with an AWM :/
That would be stupid.

I think people need to realise that we're talking about CS:Source and not 1.6. It makes a huge difference. Maybe we should take a look at the NEW version of game and use the shields for a while before we just dismiss it.

I've never had a problem killing shielders and I've also used shields in situations like running through the house in Italy only to see a sniper waiting for you as you come out the other side. Is it really fair to die from one shot like that?

Valve could still remove it in the future if the community still can't learn to adapt.

 

[RNENATOR]

Keep the shield but make it penetratable by the higher powered guns. Also allow hits on unprotected parts (sides, the feet) to cause damage.

If the source engine is so good that the shield doesn't cover unprotected parts (as it does now!) they could keep it. But in my personal opinion please remove, its such a lame projectile. I mean why do you think none of the competetive players ever use the shield?

 

[TeeJay]

You people are from CSN right? welcome

I recognise 3 or 4 of the newcomers in this thread from UKT and probably their first and last posts here, so not quite right.

I think the shield should be kept in since leagues/cups/tourneys won't allow it fixed or not. So let the current cs community enjoy the shield.

I also think that jumping should be removed from cs:s, after all italy has been remade with steps where jumps once were, may as well continue the trend with other maps and finish the 'bunnyhopping fix'.

 

[Raxxman]

I'd like to see shielders move slower

Right now they just burn around like rampent bunnies. If you could actually get past them 1 on 1 then it would be worth while.

 

[cireland]

I voted for remove the shield and I will explain why here.

Shields are never or very rarely used in Clan Wars, or PCW's, and on the occasions you find people with them on a public server they get abuse for using it.

Who mainly uses shields,

Simply people that are not good at CS, the "nubs" the "n00bs" and in all fairness why do you use one, cos you keep dying cos your crap eh ?
So if you don't have the shield in the game it may make some of the people that actually cannot play CS to save there life go back and find a beginners server and make all our CS life's a lot better


So I say GET RID OF IT!!!!!

Thanks :angel:

 

[-JeZ-]

Right, I've got to get something off my chest to start off with. NOT ALL CS PLAYERS PLAY COMPETITVELY!! IMO it's the height of arrogance to think that the competitve niche should delegate to the rest of the community.

Ok, rant over I used to play competitively and one thing to remeber is this: The CT's have to defuse the bomb / rescue the hostages. A shielder is invulnerable if he's in a corner but once they have to move to defuse the bomb / rescue the hossies then it's an entirely different story.

Think about it. With DE maps currently all you have to do is look at the bomb and click and hold the use key, then you can look away and turn to face elsewhere while you are defusing, this way the sheidlers have the advantage of being invincible as they can move the shield to block while they defuse. If they adjust the game in CS:S so that you have to look at the display to defuse it takes away that advantage and makes the shielder vulnerable.

I've never had a problem with shielders (apart from the vent campers in Assault but that's not often used as a match map) since if you use your brain you can always counter the use of the shield with good tactics and a few nades.

DISCLAIMER: I understand that playing against an entire team of shielders becomes very defficult / neigh on impossible.

 

[b0sH]

Nothing to do with arrogance about competitive CS. Fact is that without competitive cs you would take away all sponsers, famous teams and possibility of making it into more than just a game. Therefore you could also take away the reason for CS being made better. Without the likes of the CPL and the various websites that report on CS there's not a chance in hell that it would be as succesful as we see it today.

Also why shouldn't the best players who by description know how to play the game better than any1 else help to decide what should be changed. As long as they act in a manner that isnt just self preserving it can only push the game fwd.

People dont complain about all changes, allowing the choice of X Hair, improving the auto snipers and things like the friends system are all improvements to CS as a whole. the shield however is to open to abuse and should be weakened considerably, made far more expensive or removed all together to avoid adding annoyance to CS.

 

[cireland]

-JeZ-

In reply to your post,


I have never seen this happen on a server I have been on because generally they have the shield still cack themsevles and normally back away into a corner of the map, like i said it is mainly the people that cannot play CS that use it.

IMO I would rather have another player watching over me while defusing the bomb , than using a lame shield with so many bugs in , it might as well not be there.

 

[^Thomas^]

I think it should be like this :
1) Keep shield and make it more balanced
2) Remove shield and make some 1.5 fans happy

I agree.

Better balance!

 

[Tr0n]

OR take it out and make 90% of CS players happy.

 

[cireland]

As I cannot edit my post for some reason ?!?!? I will say b0sH hit the nail on the head

 

[Maxi]

As I cannot edit my post for some reason ?!?!? I will say b0sH hit the nail on the head

15min editing limit.

And I say keep the sheild, it's not that hard to take it off a server. That way everyones happy.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Nothing to do with arrogance about competitive CS. Fact is that without competitive cs you would take away all sponsers, famous teams and possibility of making it into more than just a game. Therefore you could also take away the reason for CS being made better. Without the likes of the CPL and the various websites that report on CS there's not a chance in hell that it would be as succesful as we see it today.

Take away CPL, CAL and every other professional league and i guarantee CS will still be the most played FPS on the planet. Games generate their own popularity, not outside sources.

First comes the game, then it becomes popular, then comes the sponges. Then the sponges claim the game would be nothing without them. False.

 

[Rupertvdb]

i played cs for years from old old beta days and always wondered what a sheild would do to the game. Since then i stopped playing for a couple of years, now i'm getting back into it. The shield is a good idea as an option, if people want to include it on their servers then that should be fine, it's a valid addition and you might as well have it as an option.

However i believe the majority of servers should have it turned off as an option because (mainly in pub servers) you can't stop jackasses from abusing the help it can give.

This post sucked, i sound like i'm foreign, anyways, keep the shield it is good for LAN or private servers where people can be reasonable with such things.

 

[-JeZ-]

Nothing to do with arrogance about competitive CS. Fact is that without competitive cs you would take away all sponsers, famous teams and possibility of making it into more than just a game. Therefore you could also take away the reason for CS being made better. Without the likes of the CPL and the various websites that report on CS there's not a chance in hell that it would be as succesful as we see it today.

Also why shouldn't the best players who by description know how to play the game better than any1 else help to decide what should be changed. As long as they act in a manner that isnt just self preserving it can only push the game fwd.

People dont complain about all changes, allowing the choice of X Hair, improving the auto snipers and things like the friends system are all improvements to CS as a whole. the shield however is to open to abuse and should be weakened considerably, made far more expensive or removed all together to avoid adding annoyance to CS.

Thanks for not flaming m8 :thumbs: While I agree that the competitive scene in CS has done a lot to take us closer to the day when gaming becomes a viable profession I do think that letting one group (admittedly the biggest) of players change the game for everyone is wrong. Making the game more accessable to the nubs would be one of VALVe's first priorities simply becuase it makes them more money. Think about it from a nub point of view. When they are cowering behind their shields they are learning the game and will eventually throw the thing away when they get more experiance.

 

[cireland]

Think about it from a nub point of view. When they are cowering behind their shields they are learning the game and will eventually throw the thing away when they get more experiance.

See I disagree with that comment, They will not learn a thing hiding behind a shield in the corner of a map. how they will learn is by when they die watching over players, and by going to find a server were A the talent is not as good or B Going to find a beginners servers to learn the basics
If they are using the Shield it is because they are getting killed to many times, it is really as simple as that, and as that would be the case then they should move on to another server like i said above.

 

[b0sH]

"Take away CPL, CAL and every other professional league and i guarantee CS will still be the most played FPS on the planet. Games generate their own popularity, not outside sources."

Your probably right but without these "sponges" I doubt CS would be with us still in the manner it is today. You cannott continue to make it easier for new players to pick it up and dominate it or you take away the healthy competition that exists today. The shield in general is not a skilled weapon, it simply requires a small ammount of aim and timing. The awp also has been made so that the better players can no longer dominate an area with it like in previous versions, watching the really skilled awpers was great to view and many of the maps have been made and designed with the old awp in mind.
If people want a CS that is a public only game and that organisations like the CPL and ESWC stop supporting then continue making the changes to make the game easier to pick up. However the people who make money from playing it, the likes of SK, NoA + others will simply move to the next game, just look back at where the players came from in the first place, people like Xenon, DarK, fisker etc are all old skool Quake players. A CS community with a spectator friendly and healthy competitive scene will develop in a far more positive way than a scene that is based on public play. Would hate to see it take the same kind of road as Quake 3.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

The addition of the shield added another layer of depth to enemy encounters.

Being the most popular FPS on the planet, did CS really need this addition? In short, no. I'm certain new players who join a server and get smacked around would find a certain level of satisfaction in being able to repel all oncoming bullet attacks using the shield.

Does the shield benefit gameplay? Like i said, it adds another layer to the gameplay, not neccesarily a benefit.

Example:
2 players face eachother. A very skilled player and a less skilled player. The very skilled player will win 8 times out of 10.

When the encounter changes from a skilled player with a rifle vs a less skilled player with a shield. Suddenly the less skilled player is given a pseudo-advantage. The skilled player feels cheated and robbed that they are denied the kill by this invincible shield. It becomes a symbol of frustration and annoyance as the skilled player just wants to bring about the inevitable, their victory.

Does it slow down the game? I don't think it slows down the game nearly as much as guys camping at T spawn on de_dust with AWPs. Those kind of campers are far more detrimental to the gameplay on that specific map. But it definitely can bring the pace down a little.

So there's my view on it. Should it be removed? I think it should be nerfed so it requires a lot more skill to use. It shouldn't be a refuge for the new player like it is today. Give the shield health once the health is 0 , bullets can penetrate but don't do as much damage as on raw flesh, or make it so you can shoot their feet when standing up, or make smoke grenades fog up their eye slot for 20 seconds, or just remove it completely.....

 

[b0sH]

^^ Very nice explanation.

 

[Mur]

If it really has improved hitboxes, so you can shoot the feet etc, keep it!

If it still has the same crappy hitboxes, please remove it

 

[simps-chan]

It will be much better for the whole gameplay idea to remove it imo, the shield is a newbie tool, and is just annoying... plz remove it, give skill a chance. Lately Valve has made changes to the game to be more newbie simpathetic, so they can attract new buyers I belive, It's just not fair for us (players since 1.3 or so) to encounter newbies with shields, just annoying. This is a golden opportunity for us to get rid of those annoying things, and to make our opinion count.

Besides, if they've improved the shield as they say, it's a possibility that major championships (such as CPL) approve the use of it, and that would change the whole concept of the game, even for the pro playing.
The game was really addictive at first, and the shield came just to bother us, it is not a fair equipment.

 

[Smittins]

For the love of christ remove the shield

 

[GraFF]

if theres a option in the server config to turn on/off ?

remove shield or allow to switch :]

 

[Cole]

Make the window shootable through. That way u can just shoot through the window ^_^.

 

[Charru]

I think it should be removed. It's quite useless since many servers block it and anyway it makes the gamespeed lower and that's why it isn't really a good part of COUNTER-STRIKE which has in my opinion a quite fast gamespeed.

 

[recky987]

He asked if it should be removed or kept but he didn't say what he was going to do to make it acceptable. Can't vote until i see that

 

[Icehat]

keep it, but make it better...

 

[-JeZ-]

If they keep it, then that should make the higher powerd guns cause cracks in the window, making it useless.

 

[Gunner]

Make the window shootable through. That way u can just shoot through the window ^_^.

A trained monkey could shoot through that visor.

 

[IchI]

The sheild problem is simple.

1. Get rid of the sheild compeltely.

2. When you have the sheild you can not buy armor, also when u reload or put your sheild back when its not up infront of you give make the sheild = 0. Basiclly bullets hit the character as stand when they have the sheild. And none of the dodge reg bullshite.

 

[Th00mz]

The shield is my only chance against the AWM :upstare:

 

[Gorgon]

I love shield Its so funny.

 

[NeW-DeAl]

h8 shield

i think shield dont have any meaning in cs. you cant use it in any competitions and i dont think its good to keep it, only for the shake of some noobs on public who wants to make the T's crazy. -sry 4 my English, im noob ^^, but hope u understood it-

 

[InE]

Valve,you have better and better ideas.The modifications with the awp,the crosshair color,size,and now you ask us about the shield.I think shield is totally bad to the game and to the community too.If somebody buy a shield, everybody shout with him.Shield makes many problems.Shield have a big and unacceptable advantage to the CT team.The game is slower and unrealistic with shield.Move it out from CS:S.And I like the idea,that you ask the whole CS community about removing shield and everyone can vote.I think it is the most correct way.You can do it with every new idea.And I would be happier

InE

 

[flo_Orian]

The shield should be restricted to cs_ maps. Fine solution imo :]

 

[Edcrab]

Like everyone else I've played with and against the shield, so I'm pretty ambivalent. I've heard so many glib explanations regarding tactics, and I'd argue that a lone shielder is fodder but a shield-wielding player escorted by other team members is a very potent, perhaps even overpowered force, especially in de_ maps; as said, the defensive role is far too magnified.

I've always wondered if we could help fix the AWM/shield divide by allowing the so-called "noob cannon" to penetrate the shield to some extent.