Kramer racial comments

[Bad^Hat]

African Americans were treated badly, yes; but I personally think the Jewish were treated worse. The Jews' were exterminated & faced extreme form of genocide, let us not forget that.

Oh ****, I almost forgot! Quick, jam another fifteen WWII movies down my throat, before it's too late!

 

[Keane]

and again I dont know why I cant seem to drive this point in ...gays using the word "fag" is taking a hateful word used exclusively by homophobes (in the 70's ..fag doesnt have the same meaning any more) and reclaiming for gays and at the same time deflating some it's hateful meaning ...same thing applies to blacks and the word ******

Let me get this straight... you're saying that gays calling each other f*gs and blacks throwing the N-word around, is somehow going to decrease homophobia and racism? If not, please explain...

 

[CptStern]

how you misunderstood that I dont know ..that's not at all what I said ..all I'm saying is that those particular groups take what was once a hateful word and reappropriate for their use, thereby lessening the effect of the particular word

 

[Tyguy]

how you misunderstood that I dont know ..that's not at all what I said ..all I'm saying is that those particular groups take what was once a hateful word and reappropriate for their use, thereby lessening the effect of the particular word

I was just about to say that...thanks alot jerk....

But ya, basically they took the word turned it into something else, at the same time making it more socially unnacceptable.

 

[smwScott]

Whatever the original intentions may have been, you'll find that the majority of people who go around saying "nigga" (or any variation thereof) are very stupid, ignorant people ... no matter what color they are (well ... whites who say it are generally more ignorant than blacks who say it, but you still get my point).

As far as what happened to Kramer, it's obvious there was just some repressed racism he kept inside and it came out when a few people who happened to be black heckled his "comedy" act. Seeing as he's a washed up has-been, I'm pretty amazed this has gotten so much attention.

 

[Danimal]

i still don't see why ni**** is to be filtered but cracker will not... it's a double standard! Jesse Jackson is now saying that the N word shouldn't be used in movies or music, yet (ironically) i'd say over 60% of rappers who are using the term are BLACK! in a turn to oppose racism, I would ban all artists, white or black, who use the N word in their lyrics. Hopefully no limit and shady labels will still thrive without their artists....

Cracker isn't going to be filtered because:

- The word itself has other meanings.

- The degatory term is very, very rarely used on the forums.

 

[Zephos]

Oh ****, I almost forgot! Quick, jam another fifteen WWII movies down my throat, before it's too late!

Yeah, Schindler's List was such a shit movie.

>_>

 

[Jintor]

Yeah, Schindler's List was such a shit movie.

>_>

If I say "It was a great movie!" people will accuse me of missing the sarcasm.

If i say "Yeah, it was, wasn't it?" people will accuse me of being a neonazi.

Ah, the internet...

 

[W4E]

Imo i dont think he did anything wrong. It wasn't funny but it wasn't supposed to be.

How is it racist saying the "N word"? I'm sure they often refer to themselves with this term.

He does go abit over the top, but it shouldn't offend anyone..

 

[B.Calhoun]

But it is just very wierd that blacks call other blacks Nigga's. Do they realise they are putting down themselves?

wtf, you need to get out more.

 

[Raziaar]

Oh ****, I almost forgot! Quick, jam another fifteen WWII movies down my throat, before it's too late!

Heh. Jews have been persecuted for thousands of years before WWII.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Yeah, and still are. Just saying, WWII alone is more than enough for people to be very aware of their plight, and I don't see anyone forgetting it anytime soon (and so they shouldn't).

 

[K e r b e r o s]

So everybody has a heart-attack because kramer said ni**er, but nobody even cares that the black dude called him a "cracker-a** mother***ker"???

Let's divide and conquer this situation like a Grade K-9 principle would; "Here's how I understand the situation that both of you are in trouble for. Tommy, called Jim something that was'nt appropriate or nice. Jim, also said something that was inappropriate to Tommy. Tommy, you were wrong for calling Jim a [expletive] with a [expletive] fork up his [expletive]. Jim, you were'nt any better. I know you were hurt by what Tommy said. However, the situation became worse and had'nt solved your hurt when you returned the favor and called Tommy an, [expletive-expletive expletive-expletive]. The resulting consequences are two young boys, in my office, who fought and argued over a situation that could've been resolved through an adult. And it also ended with two phone calls to each of your parents. I'am also placing you both under a weeks worth of In School Suspension. You have lost your privledge for recess during this week and you'll also be under the supervision of both me and the school Counselor after your lunch breaks. You will not have them in the cafeteria but Mrs. Gates Classroom. When your lunches are finished you will come up to the main offices and we will discuss with the both of you what happened. Derogatory remarks and insults to one another is not how we solve stressful problems for ourselves or altercations with other students, Tommy. Jim, being hurt does not give you any right to hurt someone back or more in return. You were'nt defending yourself but attacking someone else which is just like what Tommy did. Nethire of you sought an adult for these problems hence the furthering of this situation and the punishment which we will readdress when your parents arrive. Until your parents both are here, one of you will wait in office while the other keeps in this room. I'll be waiting at the front."

In the real world we tend to fill ourselves with too much self gratification and wind up throwing insults like they're going out of style. It's just, hence the pun, principle. We feel words can change us and our image -- being called fat, fag, ******, cracker reinforces in our minds the glowing insecurity we might or might not naturally have about ourselves. If we know ourselves enough to see that we are infact opposite to what that persons trying to hurt us with we might not be so careless as to return words of hurt. But we feel pride and adrenaline in the sheer idea of besting the guy or girl that just taunted us and not in the solution which would be walking away. When they'res no control to institute or monitor a balance of both wrong and right we tend to mature 'stupidly', believing our new found 'freedom' from such control the value that bestows upon us the power to be wrong and right at the sametime.

People would'nt want to handle it like the principle because the one attacked they feel is more or less 'them', or somebody they can relate to because in they're lifetimes they've also been in a situation were they're hurt and confused. What they're not relating to is the person who was 'doing' the attacking, but the two examples are exactly one in the same. Made the same way, ended the same way. No beginning or end.

Tyguy: You cant really thinkthat Cracker is as socially unacceptable as the N bomb, can you?

Absinthe: I personally couldn't care. Granted, "cracker" is still an insult. But trying to compare it to the connotations of "ni**er" is inane.

Now, wether or not you two realize it yet, but determining which form of hurt is not as bad or worse is a quagmire and which responsibility has not be owed to either of you.

You, might not be as emotionally hurt when someone calls you a, "Cracker or N*****", but that doesn't mean the guy accross from you or down the street might be. And telling him that, he should'nt be hurt by those derogatory terms or should even have the right to be upset by they're use. It's also in a lot of ways telling him your someone who, would not only use those words, but probably doesn't care that those words have been used to hurt him anyway. It makes you appear insensitive and it frusterates these people when they're hurt to have you tell them that they should have no right or reason to be as hurt as they are now.

And why should'nt they be frusterated? They see someone who see's those words for not only what they are but what they also cause in people and themselves for that matter. And then they see that same someone passively aggressively suggest that they're emotionally weak for not, being the same as you perhaps, or maybe even naive, for not having the same answer as you have concluded for yourself. And by not giving them that answer, it would almost seem like your attempting to hold the cards of power and abuse the potential your solution might have had if it were given. But thats not the real issue here, is it? Your trying to tell them that a derogatory remark, any remark for that matter, should not be as hurtful to them as the other or maybe, is'int as important. You could'nt be more wrong.

People will be hurt by different things and technically through your efforts you just insulted either them or somebody else out there by attempting to determine their worth.

Now, we might be personally confused. You might say to yourself, "Okay, but I'm not trying to insult them." Well, if your not trying to insult them then what are you doing? Your attempting to convince or manipulate them through humilative surmising into believing something thats not true to they're own feelings. Your also attempting to decide the worth of they're feelings by choosing the worth of words and which one of them, hurt them. Looking at your questions and statements I can see it and its not solved anything.

Whats important for us to realize is, 'that choice of making, choosing and destroying feelings' is not up to 'us'. And 'that choice' is, 'who gets hurt and by what'. It's unrealistic and doesn't effectively work at solving our day to day problems. It just makes them worse.

Now, what you can do is maybe tell someone later on who appears to be emotionally hurt, to analyze what it is thats hurting them and ask themselves to decide if its absolutely important at that or this very moment in their lives to take it personally or just on the shoulder. Think of your life -- was returning an insult ever really worth it? Yes? Then I can't say your of a healthy enough mindset to give advice or take it. No? Then your someone willing to find a solution and take it upon yourself to fix, 'the you part of it'. And thats all you can fix, because technically, what did I just say? Someone can either take or leave your advice. You can't fix that, but again, the only thing 'you' can fix IS 'you.

Realize now that I was'nt trying to insult you -- more or less, offer a critique on your methods. From what I've seen thus far of the debate it has'nt worked on solving your problem, hence were I decided to step in. Then again, your problem is your own and I can't fix that for you. And it might not be a problem to you but thats why I'm asking you to recheck your statements and see if its either feesible or a quagmire to determine hurt or worth for somebody else. Besides that, there's nothing I else I can do without an query of help.

 

[HL2addict]

anyone seen the "bullshit" episode by penn and teller on being white? now that show makes some VERY interesting points....