Leader of Human Genome Project "finds God"

Geogaddi

Geogaddi

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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article673663.ece

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Collins_(geneticist)

THE scientist who led the team that cracked the human genome is to publish a book explaining why he now believes in the existence of God and is convinced that miracles are real.

Francis Collins, the director of the US National Human Genome Research Institute, claims there is a rational basis for a creator and that scientific discoveries bring man ?closer to God?.
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?When you make a breakthrough it is a moment of scientific exhilaration because you have been on this search and seem to have found it,? he said. ?But it is also a moment where I at least feel closeness to the creator in the sense of having now perceived something that no human knew before but God knew all along."
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Looks like someone is ready to cash in on that Templeton prize.

EDIT: The article makes this sound like it's something new, it's not.

From the Collins wiki page:
During a debate with Richard Dawkins, Collins stated that God is the object of the unanswered questions about the universe that science does not ask, and that God himself does not need an explanation since he is beyond the universe. Dawkins called this "the mother and father of all cop-outs" and "an incredible evasion of the responsibility to explain."
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...or fail at the JREF prize. Is this similar to the 'sunset' argument?
 
Dawkins is right, collins was simply unable to find an explanation, and so just made up the usual shit. Its just like when christians say "God existed forever".

-10 respect for Collins.
 
At least based on what's quoted, none of that seems to really be mutually exclusive. You don't have to be an atheist to be a scientist, you just have to be level headed about it.
Edit: From the Wikipedia article:
His own belief system is Theistic Evolution (TE) which he prefers to term BioLogos. BioLogos rests on the following premises: (1) The universe came into being out of nothingness, approximately 14 billion years ago, (2) Despite massive improbabilities, the properties of the universe appear to have been precisely tuned for life, (3) While the precise mechanism of the origin of life on earth remains unknown, once life arose, the process of evolution and natural selection permitted the development of biological diversity and complexity over very long periods of time, (4) Once evolution got under way no special supernatural intervention was required, (5) Humans are part of this process, sharing a common ancestor with the great apes, (6) But humans are also unique in ways that defy evolutionary explanation and point to our spiritual nature. This includes the existence of the Moral Law (the knowledge of right and wrong) and the search for God that characterizes all human cultures throughout history.
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I don't believe in that, especially the bit about being "tuned for life," but on the 1 to 10 crazy religious scale that comes in at maybe a 2.
 
Shock horror, not all scientists think like Dawkins. ;)
 
I always wondered what would happen if one day Dawkins started believing in God for some reason. What would happen to his fans.
 
I'm not happy about his views and about his public statements during Human Genome Projects and later but he rejected creationism and Intelligent Design (arguably) and I hope he will not become a hero of the anti-evolution crowd only for his belief in God. I read interview with him in National Geographic, it was quite boring stuff.
I should mentoin that leader of rival private human genome mapping project, Craig Venter think almost exactly like Dawkins.
 
Polaris said:
I should mentoin that leader of rival private human genome mapping project, Craig Venter think almost exactly like Dawkins.
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why does it matter ? , as long as they remain objective and follow the scientific method what real difference do their personal beliefs make ? .
 
Of course it doesn't matter. It was only response to Eejit (I know how much he hate Venter).
I'm very glad for fantastic research results of both teams.
 
That some Scientists believe in God doesn't mean they are idiots. Just that the other Scientists aren't doing their job properly.
-Sam Harris
 
Um, and what is wrong with the Venter fellow (I heard about him, but just a bit, and see no good reason to hate him, as of yet)
 
Venter helped patent genes. Which basically means research and drug treatment has been dramatically reduced in capabilities in interests of profit.

It's utterly disgusting and shameful.
 
Craig Venter is an infidel and capitalist! He is playing God and he will destory world with his artificial lifeforms.
 
Yeah basically he patents everything he researches, or tries to.
He even wanted to patent sequencing done by the international team working on the Human Genome Project at the same time who were releasing it into public domain. I think Clinton made some kind of proclamation and made it illegal to do so however.

He's like those assholes who run the major drugs companies. Only concerned with their own bottom line, screw humanity.
 
Eejit said:
Yeah basically he patents everything he researches, or tries to.
He even wanted to patent sequencing done by the international team working on the Human Genome Project at the same time who were releasing it into public domain. I think Clinton made some kind of proclamation and made it illegal to do so however.

He's like those assholes who run the major drugs companies. Only concerned with their own bottom line, screw humanity.
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They're not assholes. They are a natural consequence of capitalism. These drug companies are corporations, whose only goal is to make as much profit as possible. Absolutely everything they do is to make profit, they are legally obliged to do so.

So the CEO's do not do it out of greed, it's their job to **** everyone out of money to make profits for the share holders. If they didn't do it, they'd get fired.
 
Solaris said:
They're not assholes. They are a natural consequence of capitalism. These drug companies are cooperation, whose only goal is to make as much profit as possible. Absolutely everything they do is to make profit, they are legally obliged to do so.

So the CEO's do not do it out of greed, it's their job to **** everyone out of money to make profits for the share holders. If they didn't do it, they'd get fired.
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i mostly agree with you on this. if anything is wrong with capitalism it's definitely the pharmaceutical corporations.
 
*looks at thread* I've read my share of theist bashing threads this week. HL2.net knows how to beat a dead horse. *leaves thread*
 
Ahhh, so Vent is exactly the kind of evil we all love to hate and hate to love.
 
Another atheist circlejerk/superiority complex thread?
 
I don't see the big deal.

So a scientist believes in God. This should come as no surprise considering theists make up the planet's majority by and far. Chances are that your doctor, your lawyer, or your surgeon believes in a supreme being. They might even occasionally say dumb shit like:

“If one is willing to accept the existence of God or some supernatural force outside nature then it is not a logical problem to admit that, occasionally, a supernatural force might stage an invasion,” he says.
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But I'm not going to think of them as stupid or incompetent as people because of that. Do you seriously respect people less for being theists? Do you trust them less? Regardless of how irrational I consider religious faith to be and how dangerous its potential is, the man did help crack the human genome, and he didn't kill anybody in the process as far as I'm aware. You may see it as a glimpse into nature while he sees a glimpse at God, but the bottom line is that he did his f*cking job and his personal spiritual beliefs never factored into it in any way. So why should anybody care?
 
I never thought Absinthe would say it, but he did, and he said it well.
 
Btw: I wasn't bashing the guy. He's contributed far more to human kind than any of us have (or probably ever will). I just wanted to see what some of your opinions were. I wonder if there's a gene that makes one more likely to seek belief in a higher power... that would be some powerful irony.
 
Since when did theist mockery spread from the political forum to the lounge? I guess I just don't see where the need arises to judge people based on their personal beliefs. This is going to sound quite cliche, but haven't any of you heard of not judging a book by the cover? It seems that as soon as anyone converts to theism or is a theist they're are automatically stupid/unintelligent. It's clear that intelligence and importance goes much deeper than just the simple, "Do you believe in God or not?" I think in all honesty we know that no one will ever know if there is a god or not until they die, so for the most part peoples' religious believes are not based on intelligence anyways.
I don't know if all this jeering is all a big joke between the atheist on the forum or if your all serious, but I think that it's rather ignorant and uncalled for to declare someone as incompetent because they believe in a superior being. Just a thought.
 
FieryGoose said:
Since when did theist mockery spread from the political forum to the lounge? I guess I just don't see where the need arises to judge people based on their personal beliefs. This is going to sound quite cliche, but haven't any of you heard of not judging a book by the cover? It seems that as soon as anyone converts to theism or is a theist they're are automatically stupid/unintelligent. It's clear that intelligence and importance goes much deeper than just the simple, "Do you believe in God or not?" I think in all honesty we know that no one will ever know if there is a god or not until they die, so for the most part peoples' religious believes are not based on intelligence anyways.
I don't know if all this jeering is all a big joke between the atheist on the forum or if your all serious, but I think that it's rather ignorant and uncalled for to declare someone as incompetent because they believe in a superior being. Just a thought.
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http://youtube.com/watch?v=w4fQA9mt-Mg
 
Mikael Grizzly said:
Another atheist circlejerk/superiority complex thread?
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Nobody has bashed theists actually. Geogaddi simply posted news that a respected scientist has become a theist for shitty reasons, and then everyone started talking about Venter.

FieryGoose said:
Since when did theist mockery spread from the political forum to the lounge? I guess I just don't see where the need arises to judge people based on their personal beliefs. This is going to sound quite cliche, but haven't any of you heard of not judging a book by the cover? It seems that as soon as anyone converts to theism or is a theist they're are automatically stupid/unintelligent. It's clear that intelligence and importance goes much deeper than just the simple, "Do you believe in God or not?" I think in all honesty we know that no one will ever know if there is a god or not until they die, so for the most part peoples' religious believes are not based on intelligence anyways.
I don't know if all this jeering is all a big joke between the atheist on the forum or if your all serious, but I think that it's rather ignorant and uncalled for to declare someone as incompetent because they believe in a superior being. Just a thought.
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WTF, no-one has declared him unintelligent. Chances are he is smarter than anyone else on this forum.

BTW, if you look at this reasons for deconverting, its apperantly because he spoke to dying people. Basically, hes scared of death.
 
I thought the Human Genome Project was a made up group in the movie Children of Men.
 
Atomic_Piggy said:
Nobody has bashed theists actually. Geogaddi simply posted news that a respected scientist has become a theist for shitty reasons, and then everyone started talking about Venter.
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I obviously have nothing against theists as long as they are not radical. But I am curious, what exactly is a non-shitty reason to become a theist?

I just don't understand what would be a legitimate or non-legitimate reason to become a theist through the eyes of an atheist or anti-theist?
 
FieryGoose said:
Since when did theist mockery spread from the political forum to the lounge? I guess I just don't see where the need arises to judge people based on their personal beliefs. This is going to sound quite cliche, but haven't any of you heard of not judging a book by the cover? It seems that as soon as anyone converts to theism or is a theist they're are automatically stupid/unintelligent. It's clear that intelligence and importance goes much deeper than just the simple, "Do you believe in God or not?" I think in all honesty we know that no one will ever know if there is a god or not until they die, so for the most part peoples' religious believes are not based on intelligence anyways.
I don't know if all this jeering is all a big joke between the atheist on the forum or if your all serious, but I think that it's rather ignorant and uncalled for to declare someone as incompetent because they believe in a superior being. Just a thought.
Click to expand...

give me a break ..it is you who are overgeneralising ..criticism is usually aimed at the extremists or those who take their religion literally despite evidence to the contrary..this thread is actually far more tolerent than most religious discussions because it doesnt feature a loon who says that bananas are proof of god

however ..if a person is a creationist there is no if and or buts: they are stupid ..or to put it less harshly: they are ignorant: that is self evident
 
zombieturtle01 said:
I obviously have nothing against theists as long as they are not radical. But I am curious, what exactly is a non-shitty reason to become a theist?

I just don't understand what would be a legitimate or non-legitimate reason to become a theist through the eyes of an atheist or anti-theist?
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It's shitty because he's trying to explain it using science when really it's still the same baseless conjecture we've come to know and love theists for. I give the guy credit for trying, but the idea that humans are "beyond" evolution because of moral law and our constant search for God is insultingly stupid for someone of his knowledge (not that I'm claiming to know more than him). These arguments have been brought up countless times before, and not once have they found any foothold in reality.

Honestly, if it makes the guy happy, I really don't give a shit either way. I have nothing against theists until they open their mouths and try to say something intelligent about God. :)

Also...

what exactly is a non-shitty reason to become a theist?
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Dunno lol.
 
Thankfully science exists apart fro the personal illogical false beliefs of individuals. The human genome has always existed, free from th taint of religion, all h did was help humanity know what that genome was.

His personal beliefs don't invalidate or prove anything but that sadly for some reason he has jumped to erroneous conclusions that are completely outside scientific method.
 
Bad^Hat said:
It's shitty because he's trying to explain it using science when really it's still the same baseless conjecture we've come to know and love theists for. I give the guy credit for trying, but the idea that humans are "beyond" evolution because of moral law and our constant search for God is insultingly stupid for someone of his knowledge (not that I'm claiming to know more than him). These arguments have been brought up countless times before, and not once have they found any foothold in reality.

Honestly, if it makes the guy happy, I really don't give a shit either way. I have nothing against theists until they open their mouths and try to say something intelligent about God. :).
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Well it just seems that people here are suggesting that in order to be a non-shitty theist they have to have some logical explanation, and we know the likelyhood of that as being incredibly slim.
If they don't have an explanation, they are deemed stupid. If they do have an explanation, they are deemed stupid. Lose/Lose? Seems a bit unfair.

I just think for a people who claim to believe in open-thinking, they often do quite the opposite. I'd say nothing is wrong with theism until it harms or is forced upon someone. To assume that all theists are stupid, close minded, and harmful is silly and if anything "closed-thinking".
 
ITT: interesting discussion about patenting genes derailed when usual apologist (I kid) crowd respond to antitheist circle-jerking that hasn't actually begun yet, thus imaginary.

lol wut?
 
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