Left 4 Dead DLC / New Game Mode and SDK Details

[SkilledNewbie]

This man speaks the truth.

EDIT:
Also, I'd like to add that to whoever says "Well, it's free so you have no right to complain" I answer: We still have a right to criticize and voice our opinions and the DLC is NOT free, we all paid 50$ a few months ago for it, remember?

I never really got this reasoning. You bought the game with the understanding that it had 2 versus campaigns and 4 single player campaigns. You also probably had the assumption that Valve would release the other two campaigns as versus as well as an SDK for free. Now Valve is releasing these (some months after the initial game's release, but if you didn't expect this you obviously haven't been a Valve gamer for too long) for free AND a new gameplay type and you still complain. Should Valve have spent the time developing a time machine to release this content closer to the release date?

I think a more valid complaint would be if they stopped releasing content AFTER this pack.


Edit:

Actually, I agree that the Lobby system is terrible. But I think that's more a problem of using new tech Valve hasn't used before and not a problem with L4D being released incomplete.

 

[Uriel]

I'm sure Valve has good reason to hold off on the update. They do have more than 1 game out. Maybe they'll hire more staff due to the great sales they've had with L4D.

I'm sure survival mode will be a lot more technical than what we imagine. I'm hoping for boarding up doors/windows/etc and moving house to house. Valve listens to the game community, especially their own.

Just play some TF2 to pass the time

 

[chimpmunk]

I never really got this reasoning. You bought the game with the understanding that it had 2 versus campaigns and 4 single player campaigns.

Honestly, I had no Idea. I did not really follow previews of L4D before the game released (as I was midly interested in it only) and only bought it because it was made by Valve. I actually expected to have the 4 campaigns available in versus. I didn't know only 2 were available.
I guess you could say the blame rests on me, it's true. But I was still very disapointed when I got the game and realised only half the game was available in Versus (which was presented as the "meat" of the game), it didn't make sense.

Now Valve is releasing these (some months after the initial game's release, but if you didn't expect this you obviously haven't been a Valve gamer for too long) for free AND a new gameplay type and you still complain.

[B]FREE[/B],
Adjective

   2. Obtainable without payment.

          [I]All drinks are free[/I]

Unless there is a way to dowload the DLC without having L4D (cost:50$), it's hard to consider it "obtainable without payment".

I think a more valid complaint would be if they stopped releasing content AFTER this pack.

So criticizing = complaining? I'd like to know where you draw the line, what's the difference between complaining and criticism?

Actually, I agree that the Lobby system is terrible. But I think that's more a problem of using new tech Valve hasn't used before and not a problem with L4D being released incomplete.

If a part of a game/software is performing poorly, it is incomplete (in my eyes, at least) as the usual process of writing a game/software includes a part of bug crushing and functionality optimization (from which the lobby system would have benefited greatly).

 

[Jintor]

Anyone who's bitching should be slapped in the face repeatedly with a haddock.

/EDIT Orgasmface on the 'free' issue you're arguing over Semantics; you may have paid $50 for the game but the DLC is definitely free.

 

[Sheepo]

Unless there is a way to dowload the DLC without having L4D (cost:50$), it's hard to consider it "obtainable without payment".

I chuckled softly and shook my head.

 

[Fiberawptic]

I always felt TF2 was actually finished when it was released.

L4D has a broken lobby/server system and two maps that don't work with versus.

Well of course you did, TF2 also came with 2 other GREAT games, and for some, 4. It feels like a complete product because you get Portal and EPisode 2 as well, but trust me, if TF2 was completely stand alone, it would recieve harsh criticism for lack of content. Dont forget, it came out with only 5 maps, no unlockables, and only two different game modes.

That lobby looks 10x better than the current one.

Meaningless criticism FTL?




Overall, my reaction to the DLC plan is mixed. I understand some people might frown upon it when comparing it to the recent large TF2 updates, but keep in mind the first update for TF2 didnt come out until way longer after release, and even the first one (badlands) wasn't that great either. Its still unclear what this new game mode is going to be exactly so we should just wait. Mainly, just remember its inevitable Valve will release much larger updates in the time ahead which will include new campaigns, weapons, monster, more...

 

[Operational]

just be happy you get content updates at all...I know I am.

I'm more miffed with the lack of the SDK so far. I mean it might be 6 months since release before we start seeing custom maps :\

Well of course you did, TF2 also came with 2 other GREAT games, and for some, 4. It feels like a complete product because you get Portal and EPisode 2 as well, but trust me, if TF2 was completely stand alone, it would recieve harsh criticism for lack of content. Dont forget, it came out with only 5 maps, no unlockables, and only two different game modes.

It did receive criticism for lack of content and stand alone it's significantly cheaper than L4D is.

 

[Nibwoddle]

Funny, I think this announcement is AWESOME.

 

[sam6321]

AWESOME, I've been waiting for this announcement.
So thats in only one month right?

 

[bi0_gauss]

Meaningless criticism FTL?

No, I had never seen the screenshot before. That lobby resolves at least 3 commonly complained about issues involving the current lobby (selecting new leader, 2 teams for a random first infected start, spectating mode). Not to mention more information and a larger chat area. Also looks like the individual teams could be set to public / friends-only..although I don't know about that. Just curious what happened to the current lobby..

 

[DEATHMASTER]

Until they mention it, I'm assuming the new mode isn't with real new maps, and a house from Blood Harvest on a hill doesn't count.

 

[giant384]

the DLC is NOT free, we all paid 50$ a few months ago for it, remember?

DLC (aka additions to the game) on 360 you get to pay for additions to the game on top of the 60 you already paid in for the game. so yes DLC on pc is free and another reason why valve is still one of the best software companies. apparentlly for the 360 microsoft cant afford to pay for there content servers with the billions of dollars they have in thier pockets.

 

[bbson john]

We still have a right to criticize and voice our opinions and the DLC is NOT free, we all paid 50$ a few months ago for it, remember?

You paid $50 for DLC? What a pity, it is free for me. That is why PC still has its value in game industry.

 

[eAi]

Distributing experiences, whatever next? Soon they'll be saying we can distribute emotions...

 

[perrkele]

Nice to finally hear what their plans are!

Not so nice to hear it'll still take months and months to get here.

Call me a whining idiot if you like, but frankly, those two missing maps should have been released for Versus by now. Versus is incredibly fun, there's no denying that, but the amount of scenarios to play does sort of lessen its value. To have to wait for what's probably going to be like six months (knowing Valve) for the full game to be playable in Versus is a bit much... I mean, they did say that the missing maps would be added after release and while six months after release is still "after release", I think using those words was a bit deceiving.

A new game mode? Sure, nice, fine, good, bring it on. But after they fixed most of the glaring bugs (matchmaking is still broken, though), the only thing I've been waiting for is DT and DA for Versus. A new game mode is just extra shiny goodness for which I'm of course thankful, but which is also less important than delivering the whole, fully-functioning game to their customers.

What really strikes me odd here is that the SDK is going to take that long. This is really terrible news for all the anxious modders and mappers out there, let alone the people wanting to play custom maps. Heck, didn't even Bethesda get theirs out of the door faster and I thought they were like "yeah ok, let's see, maybe" about the SDK anyway? Valve, on the other hand, have been going on about the SDK from the get-go.

No sign of the completely new campaigns that they mentioned having started working on already like six months prior to release. But I'm sure they'll get here eventually and it's not like I'd be expecting them to release them yet. I just want those missing Versus maps and I'll be reaaaaal happy. After those two, L4D would finally feel like a complete product. Anything else on top of that would just be Valve being totally awesome and way better than any other PC developer in terms of value for money.

/flees the scene...

...to play more versus.

 

[Jintor]

I just hope that they're really ****ing bugtesting the shit out of it.

 

[diluted]

AWESOME, I've been waiting for this announcement.
So thats in only one month right?

Spring = March through June

So the update(s) could come out in June for all we know.

 

[chimpmunk]

/EDIT Orgasmface on the 'free' issue you're arguing over Semantics; you may have paid $50 for the game but the DLC is definitely free.

You can get into my themepark for 50$, however the rides are free. Therefore, riding a ride in my themepark will cost you NO MONEY (free).

Does that sentence make sense?

By the way: How does saying that people who criticize "deserve to to be hit" help promote your opinion? I fail to see the logic.

 

[PimpinPenguin]

Spring = March through June

So the update(s) could come out in June for all we know.

Really, damn though we would be getting them this month. We have to wait all that time for that pathetic update, the amount of time they've been working on it i kinda expected more or atleast sooner.

 

[Sheepo]

You can get into my themepark for 50$, however the rides are free. Therefore, riding a ride in my themepark will cost you NO MONEY (free).

Does that sentence make sense?

...
Yes?

 

[chimpmunk]

...
Yes?

So, you are standing just outside of said themepark, how do you get your free ride?

 

[Sheepo]

Left 4 Dead costs $50.
The DLC is then free.

I could tell you your logic is retarded or that what you're arguing is pointless.

 

[CombineHunter]

You can get into my themepark for 50$, however the rides are free. Therefore, riding a ride in my themepark will cost you NO MONEY (free).

Does that sentence make sense?

By the way: How does saying that people who criticize "deserve to to be hit" help promote your opinion? I fail to see the logic.

They arent free though because youve just payed $50 to get in.

 

[Afnopo]

I want the ****ing old survivors back Valve.

 

[PimpinPenguin]

I want the ****ing old survivors back Valve.

Why? I find the new survivors a lot nicer than the old ones. The old ones were crap for facial animations so they will never see the light of day.

 

[knut]

Looking back at some of the old designers, I realised why I quite liked the old Loius concept - he looks like Chris from Season 3 onwards of The Wire. I quite liked the hoodies and rag-tag look they had, though I recall Zoey looked pretty rubbish.

 

[Sheepo]

They all looked bland and identical. They weren't much to look at and did nothing from a gameplay perspective.

 

[Reginald]

This is the most pointless argument in the world. Some companies make you pay for DLC. You don't have to pay for this one. This one is free.

 

[knut]

They all looked bland and identical. They weren't much to look at and did nothing from a gameplay perspective.

I feel sorry for you not understanding the awesomeness of Chris Partlow.

For shame.

 

[iZ94]

I have the 360 version, therefore i'll have to pay for the new stuff.

Im abit jarred off because the 2 Versus maps should of been in the game from the start. And now to get the 'complete game', i'll have to pay even more money. I'm perfectly fine with paying for the new mode, as its fresh content.

Does anyone know why the game didnt ship with all 4 Versus maps?

 

[chimpmunk]

Left 4 Dead costs $50.
The DLC is then free.

I could tell you your logic is retarded or that what you're arguing is pointless.

I see, great argumentation skills you got there.

 

[Jintor]

They arent free though because youve just payed $50 to get in.

No, the rides are free, entry to the theme park is $50.

If you are standing outside the theme park, you have to pay the $50 to get in. Yes. So if you don't own it, DLC isn't free. But if you don't own it, you wouldn't be getting DLC in the first place, because YOU DON'T HAVE THE GODDAMN GAME.

So semantically, technically speaking, DLC costs $50. But because you wouldn't be getting DLC unless you had already paid the $50 for L4D, it's free.

 

[perrkele]

Does anyone know why the game didnt ship with all 4 Versus maps?

I'm assuming it's because they ran out of time. Near the release they started saying the other two maps will be out "after release" with unfortunately no mention of exactly how long after release. And then they took a vacation of a month or so after the game's release (according to Chet) so they didn't even start working on bringing DT and DA out for Versus until the beginning of this year.

And yes, although DA and DT are somewhat playable in Versus atm using a glitch, it's still quite a lot of work to transform the Coop maps into fully-functioning Versus maps. I don't know how long this work will take, or if it's already basically done, but I am really saddened if we have to wait until the bigger DLC pack to get our hands on real versions of these two campaigns. Like you said, we haven't got the full, whole, complete game yet and if the Xbox guys have to pay for the DLC (probably because of Microsoft), I'd say you got screwed over.

EDIT: Oh and to the guy who wanted the old survivors back: no way, man. They were even harder to separate from the hordes of zombies rushing towards you than the current ones. The skins were changed for a reason - a very good reason, I might add. I suppose, though, it might work with the old head models with the new body models. Bring on the SDK, eh?

 

[Eejit]

You can get into my themepark for 50$, however the rides are free. Therefore, riding a ride in my themepark will cost you NO MONEY (free).

Does that sentence make sense?

By the way: How does saying that people who criticize "deserve to to be hit" help promote your opinion? I fail to see the logic.

You can get into my themepark for a one-off price of 50$, however the rides are free for perpetuity. Therefore when we build and open additional new rides they cost you NO MONEY.


Logic and reason mother****er, do you speak it?

 

[chimpmunk]

You can get into my themepark for a one-off price of 50$, however the rides are free for perpetuity. Therefore when we build and open additional new rides they cost you NO MONEY.


Logic and reason mother****er, do you speak it?

"a one-off price of 50$" does not equal "FREE". You still have shelled a 50$ in the past and your enjoyment of "free" rides is conditional to you having paid the money in the past. Hardly qualifies as free.

I see this as a little like that deal most Apple stores have: "Buy a macbook or whatever and get a FREE Ipod". The Ipod isn't really free, it's just covered up for in the price of your macbook. Just because you do not directly give money for something doesn't make it "free" (especially if said "free" item is conditinal to actually spending money).
Anyways, I do not see why we are arguing so much about this, do you people want the update to be "free" that bad?

Oh yeah, and great job, you called a mother****er, really convincing.
But I'm used to your "I MUST ALWAYS BE RIGHT ATTITUDE" so I won't waste too much time with you.

 

[Sheepo]

"a one-off price of 50$" does not equal "FREE". You still have shelled a 50$ in the past and your enjoyment of "free" rides is conditional to you having paid the money in the past. Hardly qualifies as free.

I see this as a little like that deal most Apple stores have: "Buy a macbook or whatever and get a FREE Ipod". The Ipod isn't really free, it's just covered up for in the price of your macbook. Just because you do not directly give money for something doesn't make it "free" (especially if said "free" item is conditinal to actually spending money).
Anyways, I do not see why we are arguing so much about this, do you people want the update to be "free" that bad?

Oh yeah, and great job, you called a mother****er, really convincing.
But I'm used to your "I MUST ALWAYS BE RIGHT ATTITUDE" so I won't waste too much time with you.

For christ sakes, if you're going to use a straw man argument could you atleast make it sound less appealing than the thing you're comparing it to? $50 and ride every ride free for the rest of your life sounds like a childhood ****ing wet dream.

And I'm not quite sure what your purpose is with this. Here's how this shit's going down.

1) I bought something
2) I get more stuff then I thought I would with no extra charge

You can argue that it's not free all you want. But it's still sweet as hell.

 

[Tagaziel]

Wait, somebody's arguing that content you don't have to pay for isn't free?

WTF.

You pay 50$ for L4D and any additional PC content is given to you automatically, free of charge. Is it that hard to comprehend?

Compare to Bethesda's Fallout 3, where you pay 50$ for the game and then 30 $ more to get the additional content (3 DLCs, 10$ each).

 

[diluted]

I have the 360 version, therefore i'll have to pay for the new stuff.

Im abit jarred off because the 2 Versus maps should of been in the game from the start. And now to get the 'complete game', i'll have to pay even more money. I'm perfectly fine with paying for the new mode, as its fresh content.

Does anyone know why the game didnt ship with all 4 Versus maps?

I agree, sucks for X360 owners. They should have at least priced that version 10 bucks lower or something since you were going to have to pay more to get the rest of the game that should've been in there in the first place.

 

[Eejit]

I see this as a little like that deal most Apple stores have: "Buy a macbook or whatever and get a FREE Ipod". The Ipod isn't really free, it's just covered up for in the price of your macbook. Just because you do not directly give money for something doesn't make it "free" (especially if said "free" item is conditinal to actually spending money).
Anyways, I do not see why we are arguing so much about this, do you people want the update to be "free" that bad?

What do you mean, "you people"?


Anyway your opinion is not that endorsed by law. Companies are allowed to advertise things as "Buy 1 get 1 free", "X free with purchase of Y" etc. yet by your 'logic' none of those things can ever be advertised as being free.
Once you're done ranting at Valve I guess you're gonna have a lot of class action suits on your hands.

 

[CombineHunter]

What do you mean, "you people"?


Anyway your opinion is not that endorsed by law. Companies are allowed to advertise things as "Buy 1 get 1 free", "X free with purchase of Y" etc. yet by your 'logic' none of those things can ever be advertised as being free.
Once you're done ranting at Valve I guess you're gonna have a lot of class action suits on your hands.

Which they shouldnt be really.