Letting Go Of God

[MjM]

Hmmm, this guy tells a story, in which he plays the tape of a girl telling a story, of mormon's telling a story, of a guy writing a story on golden tablets. Wow.

What? Its radio. You have trouble with the concept?

Anyway this thread is really OT now.

 

[Cole]

Oh btw did you know I was once Catholic?

Me to, I went to CCD from K - 6.
Atheist now.

 

[spookymooky]

What? Its radio. You have trouble with the concept?

Anyway this thread is really OT now.

I dont have a problem with the concept; I found it amusing how many stories are wrapped within eachother, that the man's story, is actually of a woman's story, which is actually of the two mormons' story, which is actually of mormon's story, which is actually of that guy's story who wrote the tablets.

 

[CptStern]

Me to, I went to CCD from K - 6.
Atheist now.

CCD? K - 6?



I just thought the stories were too silly to be true ...wasnt all that hard for me to stop believing, it was pretty much overnight

 

[Raziaar]

CCD? K - 6?



I just thought the stories were too silly to be true ...wasnt all that hard for me to stop believing, it was pretty much overnight

Well then what are you complaining about? You weren't cut out for it. You're just not the type of person to have faith in anything, don't feel bad.

 

[CptStern]

Well then what are you complaining about? You weren't cut out for it. You're just not the type of person to have faith in anything, don't feel bad.

of course I'm not cut out for "faith" ...the very word gives me the heebee-jeebees. It would pretty much entail me giving up every last part of what makes me me ...no thanks

 

[Raziaar]

of course I'm not cut out for "faith" ...the very word gives me the heebee-jeebees. It would pretty much entail me giving up every last part of what makes me me ...no thanks

Seriously you should rethink that statement. Your wife would be very disheartened to know you're not cut out to be faithful. lol

Faith isn't a religious term.

 

[CptStern]

Seriously you should rethink that statement. Your wife would be very disheartened to know you're not cut out to be faithful. lol

Faith isn't a religious term.

I think you know what I mean


not cut out to be as a sheep

 

[Foxtrot]

I think you know what I mean


not cut out to be as a sheep

That was pretty ignorant.

 

[Raziaar]

That was pretty ignorant.

Yeah. No kidding. Damn, yer an ass Stern.

And yes, I'm aware of the whole Shepard and flock thing, but it doesnt have to do with your term of a sheep. Your definition of a sheep. Its derogatory.

 

[CptStern]

what's wrong with you people? it's an acceptable term ..go to mass on any sunday and you'll hear the priest call the worshippers gods sheep. All I meant was that I didnt want to be part of a flock

 

[Raziaar]

what's wrong with you people? it's an acceptable term ..go to mass on any sunday and you'll hear the priest call the worshippers gods sheep. All I meant was that I didnt want to be part of a flock

yes, I know that. But *YOU* know and *I* know that you mean it in a derogatory term. Don't pretend otherwise, man.

 

[Foxtrot]

what's wrong with you people? it's an acceptable term ..go to mass on any sunday and you'll hear the priest call the worshippers gods sheep. All I meant was that I didnt want to be part of a flock

You meant it as a synonym for follower, or conformist.

 

[CptStern]

yes, I know that. But *YOU* know and *I* know that you mean it in a derogatory term. Don't pretend otherwise, man.

wtf? when have I said something I didnt mean? ...I couldnt be more unpopular if I tried (I guess I could but I'd probably get banned) ..what makes you think that if I wanted it to be deragatory I'd disguise it ..chock it down to poor choice of words but you're not pinning that label on me


besides what does it matter what I think of christianity?

 

[Foxtrot]

wtf? when have I said something I didnt mean? ...I couldnt be more unpopular if I tried (I guess I could but I'd probably get banned) ..what makes you think that if I wanted it to be deragatory I'd disguise it ..chock it down to poor choice of words but you're not pinning that label on me


besides what does it matter what I think of christianity?

To me it looks like you were right on with your word useage and what you meant

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sheep

 

[CptStern]

To me it looks like you were right on with your word useage and what you meant

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sheep

which definition? this one?

sheep

are of different varieties. Probably the flocks of Abraham and Isaac were of the wild species found still in the mountain regions of Persia and Kurdistan. After the Exodus, and as a result of intercourse with surrounding nations, other species were no doubt introduced into the herds of the people of Israel. They are frequently mentioned in Scripture. The care of a shepherd over his flock is referred to as illustrating God's care over his people (Ps. 23:1, 2; 74:1; 77:20; Isa. 40:11; 53:6; John 10:1-5, 7-16).

 

[Foxtrot]

which definition? this one?

sheep

are of different varieties. Probably the flocks of Abraham and Isaac were of the wild species found still in the mountain regions of Persia and Kurdistan. After the Exodus, and as a result of intercourse with surrounding nations, other species were no doubt introduced into the herds of the people of Israel. They are frequently mentioned in Scripture. The care of a shepherd over his flock is referred to as illustrating God's care over his people (Ps. 23:1, 2; 74:1; 77:20; Isa. 40:11; 53:6; John 10:1-5, 7-16).

No, one of the 4 main ones at the top of the page I linked.

# A person regarded as timid, weak, or submissive.
# One who is easily swayed or led

 

[MjM]

You guys always break out into your own little mini topics. Its quite funny.

 

[CptStern]

No, one of the 4 main ones at the top of the page I linked.

# A person regarded as timid, weak, or submissive.
# One who is easily swayed or led

yes but I meant this


sheep

are of different varieties. Probably the flocks of Abraham and Isaac were of the wild species found still in the mountain regions of Persia and Kurdistan. After the Exodus, and as a result of intercourse with surrounding nations, other species were no doubt introduced into the herds of the people of Israel. They are frequently mentioned in Scripture. The care of a shepherd over his flock is referred to as illustrating God's care over his people (Ps. 23:1, 2; 74:1; 77:20; Isa. 40:11; 53:6; John 10:1-5, 7-16).



...that is unless you can read my mind

 

[Absinthe]

"Letting go of your desire to seperate people from the things they love"

I'm about halfway through the file now and thus far no "desire" to separate people from their faith has been apparent. She has not commanded the listener to do anything. She has not insulted the faithful. She is pointing out what she sees as contradictions questionable content within the Bible and her religion.

If you can't handle it, go somewhere else.

 

[spookymooky]

I'm about halfway through the file now and thus far no "desire" to separate people from their faith has been apparent. She has not commanded the listener to do anything. She has not insulted the faithful. She is pointing out what she sees as contradictions questionable content within the Bible and her religion.

If you can't handle it, go somewhere else.

Agreed, fullheartedly.

 

[Raziaar]

I'm about halfway through the file now and thus far no "desire" to separate people from their faith has been apparent. She has not commanded the listener to do anything. She has not insulted the faithful. She is pointing out what she sees as contradictions questionable content within the Bible and her religion.

If you can't handle it, go somewhere else.

Well... maybe you didn't read the part where "I HAVEN'T HEARD IT".

I'll listen later.

 

[Absinthe]

Well... maybe you didn't read the part where "I HAVEN'T HEARD IT".

I'll listen later.

If such is the case, then why did you make such a post in the first place?

You talk about how people want to rip you away from your faith, but I think that you enjoy playing the victim.

 

[Raziaar]

If such is the case, then why did you make such a post in the first place?

You talk about how people want to rip you away from your faith, but I think that you enjoy playing the victim.

No, I most definately do not enjoy playing the victim. Its hard work! Kidding...


Anyways. I posted it, shortly after the thread was made, I didn't even have *TIME* to view the 1 hour thing. I took the title... I looked at the internet website we were on(Oh right, halflife2.net forums!), and put two and two to together figuring thats probably exactly what it was about.

 

[MjM]

Look 'thats probably exactly what its about'. Good combo. You still haven't listened to it? It's really good, you should. I can rhyme!

 

[Pressure]

Male homosexuals freak the hell out of me. They eye me like i'm some sort of steak. If they weren't gay, I would think they were cannibals. So it freaks me out.

Female homosexuals, i'm comlpetely fine with. I have lots of lesbian friends.

So you're saying homosexuality is wrong UNLESS it's between two females? Wow!

Just because it "freaks the hell out of you" doesn't mean it's wrong. There are many cultures that embrace homosexuality.

I see you guys attacking Stern but personally I think you guys are being ignorant. Why does it seem eveytime he brings up something you guys twist his words or result in a personal attack to retort his statement?

Try having an open mind and view the problem from different angles. Don't just close everything out, try being a free thinker.

Stern is right the Bible does refer to people as being sheep. In the Catholic church the priest calls people sheep. He wasn't trying to be insulting, that's just what they're called. I used to be Catholic so I know what they call people. I stopped being Catholic because I decided I wanted to think for myself.

Also, when trying to push your points try not to be so hypocritical. Saying homosexuality is wrong but then saying it's right if it's females doesn't sit well in my book.

I can see how religions see homosexuality as a threat since it's considered a sin but they just need to let go. One thing religions need to realise is that they do not rule the world. Times are changing and so are the people. You cannot deny gay people the right to marry because some religion doesn't like it.

I think the control religion has right now over the government in the US right now is unhealthy and something needs to be done about it.

 

[Raziaar]

So you're saying homosexuality is wrong UNLESS it's between two females? Wow!

Just because it "freaks the hell out of you" doesn't mean it's wrong. There are many cultures that embrace homosexuality.

I didn't say its wrong. I said male homosexuals disturb me in the fact that they eye me as a potential mate. I don't have to like that, do I?

Stern is right the Bible does refer to people as being sheep. In the Catholic church the priest calls people sheep. He wasn't trying to be insulting, that's just what they're called. I used to be Catholic so I know what they call people. I stopped being Catholic because I decided I wanted to think for myself.

Trust me... i've been reading these boards long enough, to know Stern's hidden agendas that he pushes elsewhere all the time. One of them being that christians are somehow awful for their faith. I mean... I never hear anything GOOD come out of his mouth about the religion, just bad, negative stuff.

Also, when trying to push your points try not to be so hypocritical. Saying homosexuality is wrong but then saying it's right if it's females doesn't sit well in my book.

Please point out where I said it is wrong? Please read all my posts in this thread regarding it, and post again. I'm sure you'll see that I didn't say homosexual is wrong, its just that male homosexuals make me very uncomfortable. Why is that so HARD for you to understand?

I can see how religions see homosexuality as a threat since it's considered a sin but they just need to let go. One thing religions need to realise is that they do not rule the world. Times are changing and so are the people. You cannot deny gay people the right to marry because some religion doesn't like it.

I think the control religion has right now over the government in the US right now is unhealthy and something needs to be done about it.

Well... not really part of the subject, but religions do rule the world, at the time being. The power they have, albeit fragmented because they are many... is still there. Most of the world's population is a member of one religion or another.



Once again... think before you post, read before you accuse. I didn't post homosexuality was wrong in this thread. I said male homosexuality is disturbing to me, on a purely physical level. You trying to FORCE me to enjoy it? I don't have a problem enjoying female homosexuality... but why must you try to force me, or guilt me for not enjoying the male homosexuality on a sexual level? Thats all i'm talking about here... the sexual level.

Learn to see things how they are, buddy.

 

[Pressure]

I didn't say its wrong. I said male homosexuals disturb me in the fact that they eye me as a potential mate. I don't have to like that, do I?

Never said you have to like it but it seems like you have a double standard here.

Trust me... i've been reading these boards long enough, to know Stern's hidden agendas that he pushes elsewhere all the time. One of them being that christians are somehow awful for their faith. I mean... I never hear anything GOOD come out of his mouth about the religion, just bad, negative stuff.

Well, I can't say I've read everything of his but right now we're talking about what's happening in this thread. What he said is right. It may come off as negative but I don't think he was trying to be.

Please point out where I said it is wrong? Please read all my posts in this thread regarding it, and post again. I'm sure you'll see that I didn't say homosexual is wrong, its just that male homosexuals make me very uncomfortable. Why is that so HARD for you to understand?

You strongly imply that you think it's wrong even though you don't come out and say. I am not one to tell you what you're opinion is. I can only go on impressions and what you imply when you don't clearly state your opinions.

As for it being "wrong", atleast that's the way you're coming off. As for the question at the end, this is my first reply don't talk like we've been arguing about this for a long time. I'm not having a hard time understanding that it distrubs you.

Well... not really part of the subject, but religions do rule the world, at the time being. The power they have, albeit fragmented because they are many... is still there. Most of the world's population is a member of one religion or another.

Yeah, I got mixed up there. They do rule the world and it is a sad thing. Religions have been exploited for the longest time to gain power for all the wrong reasons. It truely is a sad cycle.

Once again... think before you post, read before you accuse. I didn't post homosexuality was wrong in this thread. I said male homosexuality is disturbing to me, on a purely physical level. You trying to FORCE me to enjoy it? I don't have a problem enjoying female homosexuality... but why must you try to force me, or guilt me for not enjoying the male homosexuality on a sexual level? Thats all i'm talking about here... the sexual level.

I never said you had to enjoy it. It just seems that you're having a problem accepting that fact that it's here to stay and it's only going to get larger. The great thing is, you don't have to accept it.

If you want to be disgusted then fine, I have no right to say what you can think about it. I'm not saying you have to love them or as you put it "enjoy male homosexuality on a sexual level," please don't put words in my mouth.

I was just saying try having an open mind about it. You don't have to though, it's great having free will and being able to think freely huh?

Learn to see things how they are, buddy.

Oh, I'm well aware of how things are. Thank you buddy.

 

[Raziaar]

Okay... let me be PERFECTLY honest here, and straightforward. No games.

I find the thought of two guys having sex, revolting... its disgusting to me! The image of it is not a pretty picture in my mind.

Having said that, on a purely relationship level? Hey... i'll fight for their right to be together. I know I wasn't entirely for it in the past, but i've never been completely against homosexual relationships either. I know its there, I know its going to happen... I have friends who are gay. I don't go out and say its wrong.

But sexually... I find two guys having sex disgusting. Being in love with each other? Hey, its a beautiful thing. Just not the sex. Thats an ugly thing. And thats a personal thing, and it has nothing to do with gay people... it has to do with the fact that I just don't find men attractive! Great friend material, lousy eye candy.

Get my drift?

 

[Pressure]

I do now.

There's nothing wrong with being weirded out by it. Hell, even I get weirded out. I grew up in a culture where it was taboo to do such a thing years ago but all of a sudden that's changed. That's why it's weird to me.

I agree, I wouldn't like watching it either. The thing is, I'll never see it so I really don't think about it.

The problem with most people is that they confuse the actual realationship with the sexual acts behind it. If most people stopped doing that I think it would be more accepted today. Sexuality is something that should be left private and not be part of an arguement on whether or not someone can have a realationship.

It's great that you think it's okay for them to have a realationship. A lot of people can't even accept that. You just came off wrong at some points, try to be more clear and it will avoid confusion like this in the future .

 

[Adabiviak]

I love NPR - This American Life usually doesn't disappoint. I think of homosexual males as really ugly women - if they grab my ass, same difference: "No, thanks". I've never met one who was an a$$ though, and I can't say that about heterosexuals.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

I didn't say its wrong. I said male homosexuals disturb me in the fact that they eye me as a potential mate. I don't have to like that, do I?

I think you're flattering yourself way too much.

 

[jondy]

I think you're flattering yourself way too much.

But... he's so hawt! For a dancing cow, that is.

 

[Absinthe]

It's ridiculous that some people are disturbed by homosexuals simply because they have the paranoid delusions that every gay wants a piece of their ass.

Come on, people. Do you want to bang every female you come across? No. Chances are that most homosexuals you meet do not find you attractive. And if they do, it's not like they're going to act on it and attempt to "convert" you.

 

[Raziaar]

It's ridiculous that some people are disturbed by homosexuals simply because they have the paranoid delusions that every gay wants a piece of their ass.

Come on, people. Do you want to bang every female you come across? No. Chances are that most homosexuals you meet do not find you attractive. And if they do, it's not like they're going to act on it and attempt to "convert" you.

The ones that do eye me. There are plenty that do not... and for all I know, they're straight because they are showing no interest in me.

I don't have some sort of gaydar... but I 'do' notice when i'm being looked at in a way other than a glance.

 

[Absinthe]

And why should you care? It's not like they're going to push you into an alley and commit rape.

People are attracted to other people, be they of the same or opposite sex. Gay people have eyed me the same way unattractive (and attractive) women have. And the only time such attraction becomes a factor in my life is when... y'know. Something happens.

I can understand your discomfort if a homosexual starts directly hitting on you. I would feel the same. After all, we do not have the same orientation as they do. But until that happens, why care at all? You don't have to like or dislike what they think of you, so long as they keep it in their heads.

 

[MjM]

To get you away from the homosexuality theme.

From the Author/creator of the audio piece i posted first up.

Julia Sweeney
June 05, 2005
Thank you so much for your e-mails


Note: this is written hastily as my daughter tugs at my shirt sleeve and I don't know how to use spell check, so keep this in mind.

I really wasn't prepared for the This American Life show to have such a big impact. I have so much to say back to each and every one of you who has written. I almost hesitate to write this because I don't want anyone NOT to write to me. I read each and every one and today has been such a grand day. I wish I could respond to everyone tonight but I can't!

Many people said they knew I was going to get a lot of e-mails from people who were appalled and angry. This is true. But I would say those e-mails represent a very small minority. I also thought that is what would happen. But, for the recond, what I have found out today is that there are lots and lots and lots of people out there who feel just like I do, have gone through the same things I have. What an amazing thing! I got e-mails from people from all over the United States, I mean all over the place. And I am soooo appreciative. Thank you so much.

But really, this isn't so much about me. What thrills me is that I am finding that there are so many of us who have gone through the same experience or are going through the same experience. I mean, in some ways, because of Bush, he has pushed this whole issue to the forefront, for good or bad, you just can't dismiss your views on religion anymore as being a small matter.

And of course, not everyone has jettisoned God the way I have. And I have so much to say in return.

But I will say this here: many people wrote to say that they didn't think I should have gone from rejecting the Bible to giving up on God. The truth is that I didn't do that. It was a long long journey with many other variations on God and if you could see the whole show, you would see that it wasn't just straight from not-Catholic to non-believer. (my show is two hours and fifteen minutes long and the This American Life excerpt was less than thirty minutes) It took years to explore everything and I hung on until I realized that the only God I could believe in was made up of hydrogen and helium. And then...anyway. I am so re-inspired to write the book and get the CD out and the film done. Really, everyone who has written, thank you soooo much.

Also, YES, my newsletter sign up asks for birthdates and the person's gender and that is really wrong. I don't know how I allowed that. It was a suggestion by the person who designed my website and I'm going to change that immediately. Don't feel you have to put that information in. I have never even looked at that stuff and I won't.

And also, for the Christians who wrote about what those passages mean in the Bible. Yes, I know that the passages I site have all kinds of theories and complicated layers of meaning. I know the theories. I know the ways that people explain those passages. I looked into it. But now, it doesn't really matter because when I, after a long learning curve, really understood how the Bible was put together, which stories were kept and which weren't, what political situations were in place and what was useful to emphasise and so forth, then the Bible became a really interesting historical religious document to me -- inspiring but not sacred. Very much the work of ancient man and not the inspired word of God. So, you see, telling me all about the meanings behind those stories is sort of beside the point at this point.

I am in Hawaii right now, and I am so lucky to be here. My mother is with me and she just had a knee replacement surgery six weeks ago and my daughter is here too and it's a little like having two kids to look after while I'm on a work retreat. Not that I'm complaining, believe me I am not. But my time to resond to e-mail is limited. I will try to, I really will. Because people have the most amazing stories. Everyone's story of how they woke up and saw through the workings of their religion and their faith is interesting, even if they don't give it up in the end.

Also, I got many letters from priests and pastors who told me that they too, don't believe anymore, but what can they do? They are in a profession and they have been at it a long time. This is so heartbreaking to me.

Soooo... no spell check and I'm not even going to read this over, but I felt I had to put something up on the site.

 

[Raziaar]

And why should you care? It's not like they're going to push you into an alley and commit rape.

People are attracted to other people, be they of the same or opposite sex. Gay people have eyed me the same way unattractive (and attractive) women have. And the only time such attraction becomes a factor in my life is when... y'know. Something happens.

I can understand your discomfort if a homosexual starts directly hitting on you. I would feel the same. After all, we do not have the same orientation as they do. But until that happens, why care at all? You don't have to like or dislike what they think of you, so long as they keep it in their heads.

Why are you so uptight Absinthe? I mean... the fact that I am fine with homosexual relationships. I just don't like thinking of guys in a sexual manner, much less two guys making love. Thats all.

Read the previous page, and i'm sure you'll understand my position. It seems to be fine for the others! I don't care if they are gay, I would just rather keep my sexual mind focused on women. That's where I'm comfortable.

 

[Absinthe]

Why are you so uptight Absinthe? I mean... the fact that I am fine with homosexual relationships. I just don't like thinking of guys in a sexual manner, much less two guys making love. Thats all.

Read the previous page, and i'm sure you'll understand my position. It seems to be fine for the others! I don't care if they are gay, I would just rather keep my sexual mind focused on women. That's where I'm comfortable.

I'm not addressing the fact that you're turned off by the idea of two guys bangin'. I can relate to that.

I'm addressing your prejudicial nature against homosexuals that *gasp* might possibly find you attractive (and even then I'm willing to bet that it's paranoia telling you such a thing).

 

[clarky003]

wtf happened to this thread.. how does talking about peoples faiths nearly always somehow end up turning into homosexual flame bait.