Link to rules?

[Varg|Hund]

Wouldn't it make more sense for the moderators to quote the forum rules when closing a thread, instead of just saying "Closed", or worse, nothing at all?

Just provide a link to the the rules, and maybe include the relevant segment in the closing post. Something like this:

---
Closed
Please read the forum rules at [link]

A user shall not, at any time, insult Vargs fingernails
---

You see where I'm coming from?

 

[CrazyHarij]

I agree whole-heartedly. The moderators need to prove they even have the right to lock a specific thread.

 

[CyberSh33p]

Indeed, the closing of topics seems to have grown more and more arbitrary recently, and aren't you mods instructed to give a link or quote from the rules?

 

[Axyon]

Munro's been harping on at us to do this for ages now, but when you put it in perspective, it really turns into hard work. You've seen how many threads we have to close a day, and having to open another page, go to the rules, paste the link as well as the rule broken really adds up. Usually we'll say why it's been closed, anyway.

 

[Brian Damage]

Seems a reasonable idea.

Maybe you guys should keep the rules page open in your browsers at all times, for quick copy-pasting...

 

[CyberSh33p]

Munro's been harping on at us to do this for ages now, but when you put it in perspective, it really turns into hard work. You've seen how many threads we have to close a day, and having to open another page, go to the rules, paste the link as well as the rule broken really adds up. Usually we'll say why it's been closed, anyway.

I can understand its work, but honestly, last time I've seen you guys even give a reason has been, well, long ago. Some threads aren't even given a post along with the close.

And "its obvious" isn't an excuse, you folks should really start doing this. This would also prevent closes that aren't deserved, since I assume you guys have to follow the rules also.

 

[Axyon]

I can understand its work, but honestly, last time I've seen you guys even give a reason has been, well, long ago. Some threads aren't even given a post along with the close.

And "its obvious" isn't an excuse, you folks should really start doing this. This would also prevent closes that aren't deserved, since I assume you guys have to follow the rules also.

Sorry to go back on what you said, but it is obvious. Maybe you should all get a firm understanding of the rules yourselves, then we wouldn't have to close threads so much. Most of the moderators on this site have been working here for around a year and have studied the rules, so they know what breaks the rules and what doesn't. With this in mind, I don't see why you should be questioning why they've closed a thread, or asking to see a list of the rules that were broken. Contrary to popular thought, we actually know what we're doing.

Added: What really needs to be done here is to make the rules much more obvious in the first place. Having them idle in this little-visited forum section is helping nothing. We need to put them on the screen before someone agrees to sign up an account to the forum, or somthing similar to that.

 

[CyberSh33p]

Sorry to go back on what you said, but it is obvious. Maybe you should all get a firm understanding of the rules yourselves, then we wouldn't have to close threads so much. Most of the moderators on this site have been working here for around a year and have studied the rules, so they know what breaks the rules and what doesn't. With this in mind, I don't see why you should be questioning why they've closed a thread, or asking to see a list of the rules that were broken. Contrary to popular thought, we actually know what we're doing.

As I've said, it seems that lately threads are more and more arbitrarily closed, which leads one to wonder if they were indeed deserving. A quote from the rules wuold clarify that, and justify its closing.

The two examples I gave may have not been the best, but nevertheless.

You say we should familiarize ourselves with the rules, and indeed most of us have. But when a thread is closed and the reason it was was not even given, it leads one to believe it was not justified. Many not "obvious" closings aren't given reason, and thats really what bugs me. Many closing comments nowadays are just snide remarks or a simple "Closed."
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?p=614180#post614180
I'd say this thread did not deserve closing as such, but would you care to clarify, perhaps with a quote from the rules?

 

[Axyon]

As I've said, it seems that lately threads are more and more arbitrarily closed, which leads one to wonder if they were indeed deserving. A quote from the rules wuold clarify that, and justify its closing.

The two examples I gave may have not been the best, but nevertheless.

You say we should familiarize ourselves with the rules, and indeed most of us have. But when a thread is closed and the reason it was was not even given, it leads one to believe it was not justified. Many not "obvious" closings aren't given reason, and thats really what bugs me. Many closing comments nowadays are just snide remarks or a simple "Closed."
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?p=614180#post614180
I'd say this thread did not deserve closing as such, but would you care to clarify, perhaps with a quote from the rules?

Well, firstly I'd like you to realise that I wasn't the one that actually closed it. Secondly, allow me to refer you to this section of the rules:

"These issues are left to the discretion of the individual moderators"

We're not chain-bound to the rules, we are allowed to make decisions on closing threads that don't necessarily fall into any category of the rules.

 

[Onions]

we get tired of people saying "thats it, i'm quitting the forums!" then coming back a few days later, i'd have closed the thread if i noticed it too. #wecare tbh

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

How about forcing new members to read the rules and memorise them, and then make them take a test to ensure that they know them fully before granting them forum access?

That way, we wouldn't need to close anywhere near as many threads as we do now.

Also, if we closed every thread with a snippet of the rule breached, you'd get a thousand smartarses arguing that it didn't break the rules at all.

 

[Onions]

good plan! trickery do something similar - new members can't post anywhere but the newbies forum until they get to know people and know how to behave etc

 

[Axyon]

good plan! trickery do something similar - new members can't post anywhere but the newbies forum until they get to know people and know how to behave etc

That's a dictatorship! The mods at hl2.net are unfair, I'm leaving!

 

[Brian Damage]

Ooh, the newbie forums would be a hellish place to visit, then...

 

[Onions]

of course its a dictatorship! welcome to the internet

 

[CyberSh33p]

Abom: Didn't mean to make it sound like you closed that thread, but anyway, shouldn't closing based of your own discretion be based within reasonable bounds? Some of the threads closed seem a bit too whimsical tbh.

Onions: 1. Who has quit the forums and come back in a few days? And how often is this happening that you are getting 'tired of it'
2. Last time I checked, aren't you supposed to care? as a mod, you're here to serve the forum, not the other way around.

Pi: Actually, I'm all for that test. That'd be great. The impatient wouldn't join, and the ones that make it in would probably be more likely to follow such rules.

 

[Axyon]

Abom: Didn't mean to make it sound like you closed that thread, but anyway, shouldn't closing based of your own discretion be based within reasonable bounds? Some of the threads closed seem a bit too whimsical tbh.

Well, as Onions already said, we've become tired of the plethora of 'I'm leaving' threads. People could easily add to a previous one, but they of course want to make their own to get all that attention... it's less about the actual leaving, more about the 'look at me, I'm being bold!' aspect. Maybe we should make one big leaving thread sticky.

 

[CyberSh33p]

Well, as Onions already said, we've become tired of the plethora of 'I'm leaving' threads. People could easily add to a previous one, but they of course want to make their own to get all that attention... it's less about the actual leaving, more about the 'look at me, I'm being bold!' aspect. Maybe we should make one big leaving thread sticky.

Oh yeah, that'd be a wonderful idea.
"Leaving? POST HERE!"
somehow I don't think that'd be nice for the image.

And, once again, I fail to see this plethora. Want to point it out? is there a stash somewhere?

 

[Maxi]

I like this idea too, maybe starmonkey could make a script, that when you close a thread you can choose a rule from a drop down menu or something?

 

[Axyon]

Oh yeah, that'd be a wonderful idea.
"Leaving? POST HERE!"
somehow I don't think that'd be nice for the image.

And, once again, I fail to see this plethora. Want to point it out? is there a stash somewhere?

One designated thread is a better 'image' than a number of them sticking out on the actual forum.

It's a plethora when compared to the total lifetime of the forum. In the recent months, there's been more than just a few leaving threads, which is much higher than normal.

 

[CyberSh33p]

One designated thread is a better 'image' than a number of them sticking out on the actual forum.

It's a plethora when compared to the total lifetime of the forum. In the recent months, there's been more than just a few leaving threads, which is much higher than normal.

Ever consider there may be a reason for that?

MaxiKana's idea is the best thing I have heard so far though. That would solve some problems, no?

 

[The Dark Elf]

CyberSh33p, that thread was closed and given the reason why.

Think about it for a minute. You post a leaving thread, why do you need it open if your leaving? So you can stay and see how missed you are. That defeats the point of leaving and its simply looking for attention. Hence that, and any others like it will be deleted or locked from now on.

I mean really, surely even you can understand that can't you? Posting a leaving thread, then hanging around to see all the posts, then not leaving is a bit dumb. Really I don't see where you guys are having the problem, we make it obvious why its being closed, and if we say "its obvious" then its obvious, and if you still can't understand why its been closed, perhaps you shouldn't be posting in the company of other, more intelligent people?

Besides, users know, and have always known, if they paid attention. That they can at any time PM the member of staff who closed the thread and ask why. They can also go read the rules. Posting whiner threads like this, or tagging on and using it as an excuse to complain isn't a good way to go about it.

 

[Varg|Hund]

Yup, MaxiKanas on to something.
Starmonkey, would it be possible?

EDIT: Whining thread, Fenric? I would not call this a whine. Civil question, yes. Whine, no.
Oh, and keep it civil. None of this "and if you still can't understand why its been closed, perhaps you shouldn't be posting in the company of other, more intelligent people?". Seriously, I expected better from a moderator. :|

 

[Axyon]

Ever consider there may be a reason for that?

MaxiKana's idea is the best thing I have heard so far though. That would solve some problems, no?

You think people are leaving because we sometimes close threads without giving a reason? I find that ridiculous. If you leave because of something like that, then I say good riddance.

As I say, once one person leaves for legit reasons, others just have to have a piece of that action as well - by leaving, they're showing that they're so brave and bold. No-one can touch them, they go where they like. Again, I say good riddance.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Not really, no.

People wouldn't suddenly accept that their threads would be closed. They'd get all pedantic and try pointing out that they weren't breaking that particular rule etc

 

[CyberSh33p]

You think people are leaving because we sometimes close threads without giving a reason? I find that ridiculous. If you leave because of something like that, then I say good riddance.

As I say, once one person leaves for legit reasons, others just have to have a piece of that action as well - by leaving, they're showing that they're so brave and bold. No-one can touch them, they go where they like. Again, I say good riddance.

You think people are leaving because they show how brave and bold they are? I find that ridiculous. If you leave because of something like that, then I say good riddance.

I think, and am indeed fairly sure of it, having talked to some of my felllow forumites, that its a fair combination of the moderation degrading, the problems that stem from it, and the problems inflicted by hl2 being close(newbs, noobs, flaming of such, etc).

Fenric, though I congratulate you on your subtle insult to me there, and can see your point about leaving threads and closing them, I don't think insulting the person leaving is generally "acceptable moderator behavior", as it were.

 

[Axyon]

You think people are leaving because they show how brave and bold they are? I find that ridiculous. If you leave because of something like that, then I say good riddance.

Heh, it's true, and people who perpetuate it by adding little 'RIP' marks to their avatar aren't helping the issue at all. It just encourages people so that they too can find their name on your avatar, a martyr of our forum society.

 

[CyberSh33p]

Heh, it's true, and people who perpetuate it by adding little 'RIP' marks to their avatar aren't helping the issue at all. It just encourages people so that they too can find their name on your avatar, a martyr of our forum society.

you surely don't believe that rubbish you just said do you?

I R GONG 2 LEEV SO I KAN B ON SHIPZ AVA OLOL

don't try to blame people leaving on anything but the conditions, people don't leave forums to look cool.

 

[Axyon]

you surely don't believe that rubbish you just said do you?

I R GONG 2 LEEV SO I KAN B ON SHIPZ AVA OLOL

don't try to blame people leaving on anything but the conditions, people don't leave forums to look cool.

Believe what you want.

 

[Maxi]

Believe what you want.

I'm sure that there are a few idiots who leave forums just to be cool, but most people leave forums for other reasons then to be cool.

 

[CrazyHarij]

I agree on the part that "leaving" threads are propostrous.

Other than that, this topic is about trying to make the forum a better place, and if you can post a good enough reason to close a thread, then people won't bitch about whether they did or didn't break a certain rule.
If you can't post a solid reason to lock a thread, why lock it?

Warn people when they step over the line too many times, show them links to the rules and if they keep breaking them, you should know what to do.

Who said being a moderator was easy? You're here to protect and serve, and try to keep the forum at a high standard, this includes your own posts.

 

[Maxi]

Really I don't see where you guys are having the problem, we make it obvious why its being closed, and if we say "its obvious" then its obvious, and if you still can't understand why its been closed, perhaps you shouldn't be posting in the company of other, more intelligent people?

Wow, can't belive you would ever post something like that Fenric. Belitteling CyberSheep like that, mods like you shouldn't do that.

 

[The Dark Elf]

Yeah well I'm tired of acceptable moderator behavior, you people insult us, complain about us, try get us fired, generally treat us like shit, disrupt IRC channels, post inappropriate links, flame people and then blame us, make useless reports, cry to munro whenever you get warned about something, post lame leaving threads and you expect us to be nice to you all the time? Maybe if you deserved it. Those users here who respect the rules and bring something useful to the site are well respected by staff and other users alike.

Babyheadcrab attempted to get one of us fired and has had countless of his threads locked, deleted, been warned, posting things he shouldn't. He jumped before he was pushed and would have been banned soon enough.

Varg, you made this thread after I'd explained things to you in a PM, hence I don't appreciate you making this thread atall, it just comes across as attempting to cause trouble between staff and users. You used to be an ok chap and a mate of Brian's and I had time for you, but each day you seem to be trying to push things more and more.

 

[Maxi]

But fen, you are a super moderator, you're supposed to be a role model for forum members and other moderators, seeing a moderator posting that other people are less intelligent then what he is is not good. If you're too stressed out or are tired from closing threads all the time then take some time out to cool down.

 

[CrazyHarij]

You obviously don't have a very serious look upon moderation, and the way you generalize this entire forum into a few members and blame us for trying to get you in trouble isn't something I would have expected from you. :|

Do you honestly have any experience in moderating apart from this forum? I doubt that, after seeing how you and other moderators react in cases when your competence is put to test.

I'd like to know why these kind of moderators are allowed in a forum with about 14,000 members.

 

[Axyon]

I'm still angered that babyheadcrab was allowed to make another account and come back, he should have stayed banned as alb1221. But no, he returns, and eventually complains that HE is leaving because of US. I find that very hypocritical, considering the trouble he's caused us since he signed up as alb1221, and left as BHC.

 

[CitrusC]

I personally think suppling the said rule broken is an excellent idea. The mods have already scared off a large amount of decent people from the community, but with the amount of tards they have to deal with, it's understandable why they get a bit stressed towards the rest of the community (having to use a constant negative mindset to keep things under control). I believe this is the reason why Hl2.net has became less friendly.

Bigger community = Less personal = More assholic arguments and confrontation between regulars and staff.

Not much either side can do about that.

 

[CrazyHarij]

I'm still angered that babyheadcrab was allowed to make another account and come back, he should have stayed banned as alb1221. But no, he returns, and eventually complains that HE is leaving because of US. I find that very hypocritical, considering the trouble he's caused us since he signed up as alb1221, and left as BHC.

I agree.. BHC has been acting like a complete asshat for quite a while now, he has no right in complaining like that either. Multiple accounts are as much of a ridicolous thing to do as a serious felony on a forum.

 

[The Dark Elf]

But fen, you are a super moderator, you're supposed to be a role model for forum members and other moderators, seeing a moderator posting that other people are less intelligent then what he is is not good. If you're too stressed out or are tired from closing threads all the time then take some time out to cool down.

Dont twist my words Maxi

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

I think you'll find that the majority of the problem is caused by the continued influx of new members. They come here, post something that's been discussed before, and get flamed to death by the members. Then we step in to close threads, and get it in the neck for that.

How many people does it take to say "this has been posted before - you can find the link here"? About 30, apparently.