Living with faith.

[Krynn72]

Darkside wanted a religious debate, well this is as close as he will get.

What do you think of faith? I don't mean necessarily a faith in God, though thats likely the largest application of faith, but i'm talking in general. Do you think its good/bad/alright to live with faith in something? To believe in something that has no proof its existence, or may even have evidence against it?

In most of the arguments I get into over religion and the existence of a God, it often comes down to them simply saying that they "have faith" that he exists. I say that I can't see any rational reason to believe, and see no traces or evidence of a supreme being, and they tell me that it isn't something that can be rationalized. Do you think its ok to have this sort of mindset?

Discuss.

 

[MJ12]

Depends if it's popular/cool or not.

If the kids at school are doing faith, I'm totally in.

 

[Sheepo]

You have no rational proof of the world around you. The only thing you can be definitively sure of is your own consiousness. You have faith if you believe the world you live in and the people you know are real and not fabrications of your own mind.

 

[Krynn72]

You have no rational proof of the world around you. The only thing you can be definitively sure of is your own consiousness. You have faith if you believe the world you live in and the people you know are real and not fabrications of your own mind.

Thats semantics in regard to the definition of proof or evidence. I am obviously speaking of proof in the scientific and factual sense that has quantifiable and consistent data rather than the philosophical idea of what it means to be real.

 

[Darkside55]

I didn't want a debate! I wanted an argument! This is a distinct perversion of what Darkside wants!


And faith is foolishness. By definition it's believing in something you have no proof of! Why would you even want to do that? Are you dumb?

 

[PimpinPenguin]

I find it hard to believe. There was one debate i had with a Religious Education teacher when i asked her about Evolution and how fossils and DNA evidence all support the theory. Her comeback was a religious scientist found that god put them their to fool us and to test our faith. If someone has faith then good on them perhaps they have faith in flying spaghetti monster. Unless Religion can come up with substantial evidence to prove Gods existence then i'll find it very hard to have even the slightest bit of faith.

 

[MJ12]

The only thing you can be definitively sure of is your own consiousness. You have faith if you believe the world you live in and the people you know are real and not fabrications of your own mind.

But like, what if we're all in like this giant program... and like, Robots are harvesting our body heat for energy, and none of this is real..... and like we can actually do anything, like bends spoons with our mind..


Whoa.

 

[Hectic Glenn]

What if the fabrications in your mind provides you with hope, strength and security. Sure it may not be real or make perfect sense, but if it helps the individual is it a bad thing? It might seem like a weakness of mind to everyone else but those with faith face the world with as much vigour at the next person.

I'm happy to debate this nicely without ripping the shit out of religion. For the record I'm atheist so I'm just throwing the above view as something to think about...

 

[kineaesth]

The only thing you can be definitively sure of is your own consiousness.

Nope.

I think someone with true faith is hard to come by.

In a way, it impresses me. I'm moderately cynical, and someone who truly believes in something intangible seems alien to me.

 

[Krynn72]

What if the fabrications in your mind provides you with hope, strength and security. Sure it may not be real or make perfect sense, but if it helps the individual is it a bad thing? It might seem like a weakness of mind to everyone else but those with faith face the world with as much vigour at the next person.

Do you think that faith promotes ignorance? If someone is keen on believing something that is wholly unsubstantiated, and therefore perpetuates the idea that it is OK to believe without evidence, dont you think that could be harmful to us?

 

[Diesel_Power]

Small minds are easily filled with faith.

 

[Darkside55]

What if the fabrications in your mind provides you with hope, strength and security. Sure it may not be real or make perfect sense, but if it helps the individual is it a bad thing? It might seem like a weakness of mind to everyone else but those with faith face the world with as much vigour at the next person.

For me, at least, I have a real problem with people believing in nonexistant things to ease their lives. It's a crutch for those who have no real handicap.

 

[Diesel_Power]

For me, at least, I have a real problem with people believing in nonexistant things to ease their lives. It's a crutch for those who have no real handicap.

Religion is for people who have trouble accepting themselves or people can't accept that nothing happens when you die. They think believing in a higher power will make everything go away and they can start over again.

Sorry religious folks! But no one ever starts over. You'll always remember your past. The good and the bad. Mental scars last forever.

 

[Barnz]

Faith is sexy.

 

[Emporius]

I have no problems with people having faith in a higher power, it's just when they begin to encroach on the views and practices of others. Most of you seem to be irrationally hating on these people because they choose to believe something, while you yourself are doing the exact same thing.

 

[Escaep]

Small minds are easily filled with faith.

God was nailed to a cross?


Interesting.

I have no problems with people having faith in a higher power, it's just when they begin to encroach on the views and practices of others. Most of you seem to be irrationally hating on these people because they choose to believe something, while you yourself are doing the exact same thing.

This is exactly what I feel. I honestly have no problem if you are Muslim, Buddhist, Athiest, Zorostrian or whatever you believe in. As long as you don't try and press your religious views on me or slam my religious views I have no problem with you. I do have a problem with Athiests (and other religions) who don't like it when believers slander them for not believing but in turn slam believers for believing. I see that a lot of people here automatically associate Christians and religious people in general as being "small minded," "ignorant," "stupid--" I could go on. I don't automatically associate Atheists for those same things so I don't view it as being fair to do the same thing for believers.

 

[The Brick]

Faith, by definition, is a belief without (or in spite of) rational proof. Saying that you 'have no reason to have faith' is beside the point of faith. As far as I see it, faith is a bad thing in all forms and at all times. Faith in a god is deceiving yourself. "But so many good things have been done in the name of religion", is an argument you hear a lot. All good deeds came from the goodness of the people, not from the faith. In my opinion, it's demeaning to say that faith is responsible for the good deeds.

I don't really see much people with faith around me, so I don't really live with it at all. Yay!

 

[FireStarter]

What about Nihilism?

All that exists is human psyche, and everything else is bullshit CREATED by the human psyche.

That's the closest thing I'll get to a religion. There's no way to prove it since I can't tell what you're thinking or if you think at all, but there's no way to prove it wrong because you don't know what I'm thinking or if I think at all.

It's a fun cycle of madness!

EDIT: Also, it's not technically believeing in someONE, but someTHING.

 

[Darkside55]

God was nailed to a cross?

Technically yes. Jesus is the son of God, but also God himself, in human form.

 

[Escaep]

Technically yes. Jesus is the son of God, but also God himself, in human form.

edit: nvm.

 

[FireStarter]

According to the bible itself at some points, it also says that everyone has a little bit of God in every bite, not just people related to him and/or important characters.

 

[Diesel_Power]

A lot of fellow atheists argue "I have no problem with religion as long as they don't try to push their beliefs on me."

What if it's the government or the judicial system (courts) are using religion to govern society? Is that pushing their beliefs on to you? When is it too much? When will you say enough is enough, religion needs to go away!

 

[Escaep]

A lot of fellow atheists argue "I have no problem with religion as long as they don't try to push their beliefs on me."

What if it's the government or the judicial system (courts) are using religion to govern society? Is that pushing their beliefs on to you? When is it too much? When will you say enough is enough, religion needs to go away!

Explain why religion needs to "go away."

 

[Krynn72]

I have no problems with people having faith in a higher power, it's just when they begin to encroach on the views and practices of others. Most of you seem to be irrationally hating on these people because they choose to believe something, while you yourself are doing the exact same thing.

Thats ignoring a very important difference though. I don't mean to presume on the part of the other people on this forum, but a lot of Atheists believe there is no god for reasons that are rational and quantifiable. A lot of Theists believe there is a god for reasons that are faith-based, meaning that they have no supporting evidence to support their belief, and in fact, in spite of evidence saying otherwise.

 

[The Brick]

Explain why religion needs to "go away."

It's impeding on moral and scientific progress of society.

Thats ignoring a very important difference though. I don't mean to presume on the part of the other people on this forum, but a lot of Atheists believe there is no god for reasons that are rational and quantifiable. A lot of Theists believe there is a god for reasons that are faith-based, meaning that they have no supporting evidence to support their belief, and in fact, in spite of evidence saying otherwise.

Atheism isn't a belief. It's when someone who doesn't buy the magic man story. As Richard Dawkins nicely put; "I don't call myself an afairist, just because I don't believe in fairies."

 

[Diesel_Power]

Explain why religion needs to "go away."

Equal rights for everyone

Stem cell research

Freedom to choose

Jews and Islam fighting in the middle east

I'm not just talking about christianity and catholism. i'm also talking about Islam where people's human rights are under attack.

 

[kineaesth]

Equal rights for everyone

Haha, what?

 

[Escaep]

Equal rights for everyone

Stem cell research

Freedom to choose

Care to elaborate?

 

[Emporius]

Equal rights for everyone

Freedom to choose

Rights to religion?

Freedom to choose beliefs

 

[FireStarter]

Religion needs to go away because it has caused nothing but conflict since the beginning of recorded time.

Everyone feels the need to dispute it, but nobody wants to step forward and say it's a dumb argument with no proof of anything much.

EDIT: Holy shit, four people posted at once.

 

[Krynn72]

Get off religion, and back onto faith guys. Glenn already said he will close the thread if you guys go into this discussion.

 

[Escaep]

Religion needs to go away because it has caused nothing but conflict since the beginning of recorded time.

Everyone feels the need to dispute it, but nobody wants to step forward and say it's a dumb argument with no proof of anything much.

Land and money have caused conflict since the beginning of recorded time. Should we take money and the desire for wealth away?

 

[Diesel_Power]

Care to elaborate?

Homosexuals

George Bush baning stem cell research because it's morally wrong in the bible. Steam Cell research could be the answer to so many disease's plaguing us today.

Abortion.

 

[kineaesth]

Uh. You're getting pretty hazy here. Religion doesn't create inequality for gay people, people using religion as a tool of oppression do. Same as Bush banning stem cells.

Also, Emporius is all sorts of awesome for calling that hypocrisy.

 

[Escaep]

Homosexuals

George Bush baning stem cell research because it's morally wrong in the bible. Steam Cell research could be the answer to so many disease's plaguing us today.

Abortion.

In your first post you said "equal rights for everyone." If you believe in equal rights for everyone shouldn't everyone have an equal right to choose what they believe in?

Again, as with "freedom to choose." Shouldn't humankind have the freedom to choose what they believe in?

 

[Diesel_Power]

Uh. You're getting pretty hazy here. Religion doesn't create inequality for gay people, people using religion as a tool of oppression do. Same as Bush banning stem cells.

Also, Emporius is all sorts of awesome for calling that hypocrisy.

So by getting rid of religion we get rid of their only remaining tool to oppress.

Less people who believe in god and less people who fear god makes religion a useless tool for them to use. Isn't that a good thing?

 

[Diesel_Power]

People can go on and continue to be religious. It's not so much as I don't want them to push their beliefs onto me but I also want them to respect the separation of church and state. Don't make laws based on what the bible says.

 

[Krynn72]

Atheism isn't a belief. It's when someone who doesn't buy the magic man story. As Richard Dawkins nicely put; "I don't call myself an afairist, just because I don't believe in fairies."

Seems like more semantics to me. I dont see how "believing he doesnt exist" and "not believing he exists" differs in any substantial manner.

 

[Diesel_Power]

Seems like more semantics to me. I dont see how "believing he doesnt exist" and "not believing he exists" differs in any substantial manner.

So by not believing in unicorns means were all part on the "Unicorns don't exist" religion?

 

[Emporius]

So by getting rid of religion we get rid of their only remaining tool to oppress.

OPPRESSION:
"the exercise of authority or power in a burdensome, cruel, or unjust manner."

"inequality of bargaining power resulting in one party's lack of ability to negotiate or exercise meaningful choice"

Oh lol