London and Birmingham Riots

I read something not long ago that rioters quickly forget why they are rioting and most can't really tell you the initial reasons that started things off, though they typically still feel justified. Within short order, the riot is the motive to continue the riot.
 
Raziaar said:
Within short order, the riot is the motive to continue the riot.
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This is literally the only reasoning behind riots breaking out in other cities hundreds of miles away from London. Go back to my video about the kid in Manchester; it says it all.

Also lol @ all of this semantics squabbling.
 
Solaris said:
It should also be obvious that Cameron's policies are at fault here and had his Police cuts been allowed to take further effect this would be a much more difficult situation.
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More to do with long standing policies on Riot Control in the UK mainland - the mainland police forces are badly underequipped and undertrained for dealing with civil unrest compared with the PSNI - they lack water cannon, armoured vehicles, tear gas and more importantly the political will to use what equipment they do have (or at least no one in the chain of command willing to make the call, especially after that business with the G20 protests and not wanting to have anyone shout racist - don't want another Brixton Riot style PR disaster. They've just ended up with a different one.). If these riots had happened in NI they would have been crushed quickly and efficently, which is rather racist in its own way - for some reason its OK to break out the tear gas and baton rounds on the Irish but not the English.
 
Personally I think this is a classic example of the perpetual struggle between the chavs and the chav-nots.

Thanks what a great audience.
 
_54519217_philipwinder-salford.jpg


come at our shop, bro.
 
Stylo said:
Yes, purposefully spreading terror. I'd call burning down shops and destroying property, pretty much terrorism.
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Not to mention burning people out of their homes. Its a miracle that nobody died during the fires, I think the oldest escapee was a 70 years old
 
Aw thats a shame. The problem is, if someone did that in the UK they would probably go to prison for assault rather then getting a pat on the back for doing the right thing.
 
DEATH eVADER said:
Not to mention burning people out of their homes. Its a miracle that nobody died during the fires, I think the oldest escapee was a 70 years old
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A guy I know's Aunt just had her house burnt down which had her entire life in it basically. Glad to know she got out but that's her home just snuffed out in an instant.

Following on from Ren's post, it seems 3 men have indeed been killed in Birmingham during rioting - http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/10/uk-riots-birmingham-asians-killed-car

Disgusted, to say the least.
 
Stylo said:
Following on from Ren's post, it seems 3 men have indeed been killed in Birmingham during rioting - http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/10/uk-riots-birmingham-asians-killed-car

Disgusted, to say the least.
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The question now is whether the attacker was racially motivated, taking the already deteriorating situation to his advantage, or whether it was a due to the culmination of several days of mindless violence

Aw thats a shame. The problem is, if someone did that in the UK they would probably go to prison for assault rather then getting a pat on the back for doing the right thing.
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What if the police turned a blind eye

Can't wait for the 2012 End of Days riots
 
i travelled through london and birmingham today and had no trouble, but that was because i was being routed through trains. i was a bit worried i might be trapped down in kent at my girlfriends and not able to get home (wolverhampton), but the trains are still running which is something. apparently the violence has even spread to wolves but you wouldn't know anything was ever any difference in this bomb site of a city!

absolutely dreadful behavior from our country this last week. horrendous nonsense. i've cannot tear my eyes away from the news right now because i'm dreading the inevitable horrible news that someone is going to get gunned down in a confusing situation, or even seeing people i know from the cities trapped in the middle of it.

it's really quite scary just how uncanny some of this footage is from something like the intro montage of 28 days later, or shakey cam footage from crowds and police vehicles in cloverfield (minus the creature, of course!)
 
Just hearing how one man James Best, 39 of London Rd, Croydon has been charged with stealing cakes and biscuits during riots from bakery. He has pleaded guilty to burglary of Munchies bakers on London Rd. He saw the shop had been broken into and decided to steal cakes. Defence lawyer asked judge to separate him from events of last few days but the judge said in the current climate he would not grant bail. Best was committed to crown court for sentence.
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More ...
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14481036

Fella has stolen two T-Shirts and was given 1 day in prison... what an utter waste of time. I guess thats why these kids dont give a crap. A slap on the wrist and let out back into the world.
 
This Alexis Bailey fellow partly disproves what that Darcus Howe said. These are just bored 20- and 30-somethings with nothing better to do. Poor my ass.
 
Darcus Howe is hugely biased, though. Nobody got their heads blown off, he was being over-dramatic because he was live on the news.

According to most recent information, Mark Duggan got 1 single bullet to the chest after pointing a gun at armed Police. That's what killed him.

Darcus Howe is just one of many people making out like a completely innocent young black gentleman was shot in a racist attack by the Police.

The actual story is that Duggan was linked to violent gangs and drug dealing and suspected to be armed, which is why he was met by armed Police who stopped the vehicle he was in (because as we all know, British Police Officers don't just carry guns around, they are only armed with guns when it's deemed absolutely necessary).

It's not like America were some over zealous cop might pull his pistol out and kill a guy and spark outrage. The squad was specifically sent because they specialise in gun crime. Duggan pulls a gun on them and gets shot. What do you expect by pointing a gun at armed Officers, really?

On a slightly different note, here's some footage showing that the Manchester Police are putting their newly given powers to beat the shit out of any rioters they catch into effect:

 
If local communities want to protect their areas all the power to them I say.
 
I'm sick of people making jokes saying 'Why is there riots here, I mean we're not in Northern Ireland'. F*cks me right off.
But still I'd say people don't even care about the shooting, it's all about free things, who wouldn't want that?
 
Stylo said:
into effect:

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that video will certainly help bridge the gap between the community and the police. I have no problem with cops upholding the law but beating on people who offer up no resistance isnt upholding the law regardless if they're chav scum or not
 
This looks familiar...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots

It does looks like the police involved in the Rdoney King beating were guilty and so the outrage (at least the peaceful protests) were understandable. In the London case, the police appear to be in the right.

Just as with the LA riots the London riots have become nothing more than an excuse for violence and destructive behavior.
 
It's such a relief to know the BNP will never come to power. Racist idiots.
 
CptStern said:
that video will certainly help bridge the gap between the community and the police. I have no problem with cops upholding the law but beating on people who offer up no resistance isnt upholding the law regardless if they're chav scum or not
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Actually, the British public have shown great support for the Police during this time. The Chief of The Met expressed relief that the people wanted to give the Police more offensive power because he was worried it would be frowned upon.

Literally, this is what the communities want. The whole reason Cameron gave the go ahead to use Rubber Bullet firearms is because the British public pushed for it.

Basically, this is what the majority of local business owners and people living in areas affected by riots called for, so I doubt there will be much backlash towards the Police for battering the looters in. Now, if you are seen looting/vandalising/committing violent acts and run away, the Police will chase you down and beat you to the ground.
 
Stylo said:
Actually, the British public have shown great support for the Police during this time. The Chief of The Met expressed relief that the people wanted to give the Police more offensive power because he was worried it would be frowned upon.

Literally, this is what the communities want. The whole reason Cameron gave the go ahead to use Rubber Bullet firearms is because the British public pushed for it.

Basically, this is what the majority of local business owners and people living in areas affected by riots called for, so I doubt there will be much backlash towards the Police for battering the looters in. Now, if you are seen looting/vandalising/committing violent acts and run away, the Police will chase you down and beat you to the ground.
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This.

If you're out on the streets at stupid o' clock, faces hidden and riding in a gang you deserve a truncheon to the skull. There will be no end to it otherwise.
 
Stylo said:
Actually, the British public have shown great support for the Police during this time. The Chief of The Met expressed relief that the people wanted to give the Police more offensive power because he was worried it would be frowned upon.

Literally, this is what the communities want. The whole reason Cameron gave the go ahead to use Rubber Bullet firearms is because the British public pushed for it.

Basically, this is what the majority of local business owners and people living in areas affected by riots called for, so I doubt there will be much backlash towards the Police for battering the looters in. Now, if you are seen looting/vandalising/committing violent acts and run away, the Police will chase you down and beat you to the ground.
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people are ignorant of the law. what they want is immaterial to upholding the law. I'm all for arresting the rioters if caught in the act or with solid evidence otherwise it's just a vigilante mob with badges. the world is watching. dont become toronto; the public quickly turned on them and we're up to our noses in public inquireys, lawsuits and a police force that has lost it's credibility

http://www.thestar.com/news/toronto...ist-witnessed-police-brutality-at-toronto-g20
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/a...lty-verdict-for-cops-in-police-brutality-case
 
CptStern said:
people are ignorant of the law. what they want is immaterial to upholding the law. I'm all for arresting the rioters if caught in the act or with solid evidence otherwise it's just a vigilante mob with badges. the world is watching. dont become toronto; the public quickly turned on them and we're up to our noses in public inquireys, lawsuits and a police force that has lost it's credibility

http://www.thestar.com/news/toronto...ist-witnessed-police-brutality-at-toronto-g20
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/a...lty-verdict-for-cops-in-police-brutality-case
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I think due to cirscunstances anyone near rioters is a suspect,since who will be near people rioting that is robbing store for sure?

that someone will complaint at the police for using excesive force? boo hoo,look at the video of the injured kid being mugged,thats the kind of people behind this riots,you just will keep your anti police agenda no matter what
 
CptStern said:
people are ignorant of the law. what they want is immaterial to upholding the law. I'm all for arresting the rioters if caught in the act or with solid evidence otherwise it's just a vigilante mob with badges.
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Lol what? I dunno where you got the idea they're just hitting anybody. They're getting the people who are making off with stolen goods, not just random people in the street who are near rioting. They're only allowed to use their offensive power if threatened or if they actually witness a crime.

You don't honestly think they're just running around the city centres hitting everyone in sight do you?
 
over 1100 people were arrested during the riots in toronto and 60% of those that were charged had their charges dropped or dismissed before the weekend was out. only 24 out of 300+ who were charged were convicted of anything. 24 out of 1100

queenstarrestspic.jpg


most of these people were innocent bystanders or lived in the area just trying to get home



Stylo, were the people in your video looters caught in the act or suspected looters?


the rioters are out of control; simply disgusting!

 
Stylo said:
It's not like America were some over zealous cop might pull his pistol out and kill a guy and spark outrage.
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Errr...

Ok, so the 'climate' was completely different, but still. Ask any random person last Thursday whether they thought that the Police in the UK were prone to disproportionate violence, and I bet they would have pointed you to the above, or to Ian Tomlinson, or even something like the kettle tactics during the student protests. Now public opinion is firmly behind them, and I don't even disagree. It's an unenviable job in many ways. Duggan was undoubtedly not an especially great person, but I wouldn't be too quick to assume that the Police didn't overstep the line slightly...
 
I dont think the british people would have wanted the kind of force used in that video. The kid got off his bike and stood there waiting for the police to come talk to him. Instead they charged him, clubbed him on the head and bashed him with a shield, then kicked him a few times for good measure, and walked away, not even arresting the person. I don't care if you're out at stupid o'clock, if you aren't committing any crime you have a right to not be beaten by officers of the law. Even if you did commit a crime, but were surrendering yourself to the police you shouldn't be beaten. The only time force should be employed, and I think the "british public" would agree, is when it is needed to stop an in-progress crime from proceeding.
 
Krynn72 said:
I dont think the british people would have wanted the kind of force used in that video. The kid got off his bike and stood there waiting for the police to come talk to him. Instead they charged him, clubbed him on the head and bashed him with a shield, then kicked him a few times for good measure, and walked away, not even arresting the person. I don't care if you're out at stupid o'clock, if you aren't committing any crime you have a right to not be beaten by officers of the law. Even if you did commit a crime, but were surrendering yourself to the police you shouldn't be beaten. The only time force should be employed, and I think the "british public" would agree, is when it is needed to stop an in-progress crime from proceeding.
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As a British person I can safely say I applaud their efforts.
 
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