LOTR Racist?

[Warbie]

Of course it is. Everything is based upon our prejudices. When Tolkien wrote the novels he could have chosen to make all the good people black and all the bad people white. Hobbits could have looked middle-eastern and asian, and the bad guys good ol' white folks. HE CHOOSE to do the reverse because he was a good ol' white boy. It is suprising that he gave women the roles he did considering the time period he wrote in. And Jackson didn't cast a single white person in any positive role. So either the entire world didn't have a single talented black actor or he felt mixing races would be bad.

What a load of shite. Tolkein choosing to make the good characters white, and Jackson not casting a black person in a positive role, is not racism.

As the orcs in the movies don't resemble black ppl at all it's worrying that a comparison has been made in the first place. 'the orcs have black skin and so do black ppl, omg LOTR is racsit' ........... idiot logic at its most depressing. (This is all a bit like that South Park episode, forget which one)

'So either the entire world didn't have a single talented black actor or he felt mixing races would be bad.'

What has that got to do with anything at all? - you're just flying off on an irrelevant tangent. Thinking like this is part of the problem, and helps keep predujices alive.

You may now suck my plumbs :thumbs:


//have learnt to quote 'properly' now - hope you're happy Maskirovka

 

[thenerdguy]

Well if he made the goodguys come from the south people would be saying something about the american civil war.
If the goodguys came from the east that would be china? hong kong? singapore?

It realy doesnt freaking matter. that guy is an ash shat (New one?)

 

[RoyalEF]

Thinking like this is part of the problem, and helps keep predujices alive.

The practice of prejudice and culture keeps prejudices alive. Most prejudices need to die out with the generation of a culture who practiced them. All the "advancement" in society is very much for show in a major part of the population.

And black being associated with evil and white good contributes to modern day problems. People are, on a whole, stupid. Much easier to paint a black person as a criminal than a white person. Why is blond considered better than every other hair color? Because your TV told you it is?

If LOTR had cast all blacks and a few whites as the bad quys it would not have been successful. In fact it never would have gotten off the ground. I know people who don't mind if a black person is in a film, but won't watch a movie/tv show that is filled with "them". The world and everything in it is innately influenced by racism, prejudices, nationalism, sexism, etc at every level. It is an unfortunate part of humanity. We are quick to believe in bad things about others not like us. Bush says Saddam has WMD and everybody cheers like morons and we spend $100s of billions to destroy a country so wealthy US corporations can be handed contracts by politicians who have received lots of soft money from them. Easy to paint any middle eastern nation as part of the "axis of evil".

Saying XYZ is racist/prejudicist is redundant. It doesn't mean actions taken were malicious. Just part of normal everyday society.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Excuse me. Saruman was white. The wildmen of the hills were white. The Uruks wore a 'White Hand'


hmmm

 

[Brian Damage]

If you ask me, it's just a bunch of fairly intelligent (but not intelligent enough) people trying to find something superficial to carry on about because they don't really want to address the really serious issues in life.

You get a lot of that these days, I've noticed. People like to distract themselves.

 

[qckbeam]

And black being associated with evil and white good contributes to modern day problems. People are, on a whole, stupid. Much easier to paint a black person as a criminal than a white person. Why is blond considered better than every other hair color? Because your TV told you it is?

Oh boy, here we go. Not to sound racist (I know people will think I am because of what I'm about to say but I assure you I am not), but black people are generally the people involved in violent crimes (I'm talking about where I live). That's just the way it is, I know this, it's not because the media has been feeding me lies because it like the rest of society is secretly racist. I know there are reasons behind this that have nothing to do with race, and I'm not make generalizations here, just stating the facts.

What the hell does blond hair have to do with anything? I didn't know that blonde hair was considered by society to be the best hair color (I prefer brown or black myself), but if it is it MUST be because the racist TV said it was. [/sarcasm]

Bush says Saddam has WMD and everybody cheers like morons and we spend $100s of billions to destroy a country so wealthy US corporations can be handed contracts by politicians who have received lots of soft money from them. Easy to paint any middle eastern nation as part of the "axis of evil".

Excuse me, but not everyone cheered like idiots when Bush spoke about the weapons of Mass Destruction. There was a hell of a lot people skeptical about his claims.

What are you trying to say with "Easy to paint any middle eastern nation as part of the 'axis of evil' "? What, Saddam was a good guy painted to look evil by the racist American media? His Iraq wasn't an evil place governed by evil people (notice I never said the inhabitants were evil)? There is NO DOUBT that he was an evil man, and there is no doubt his regime was an evil one

 

[bastard_loud]

but black people are generally the people involved in violent crimes. That's just the way it is, I know this,

You know jack shit.

 

[Gorgon]

Yeah I had read the first post and I thought of the same think ages ago with slightly diffrent ideas.

I think the story is between Jews and Arabs over the Middle earth (Middle earth=MiddleEast). The arabs are controld by sarun and saruman (saruman =The phrophet Saloman). Arabs are the orcs, all the dark armies while Jews are men and alves. The retun of the king mean the return of King David (David =Dawod) (Dawod is a prophet which came to the jews 2000-3000 years ago and he saved them from slavory). I think the third part is on how the King David will return and capture MiddleEast to the jews again. King David = Messiah in our time.

So the three movies is about Jews trying to find the Messiah so he can save them from Arabs and give them back the MiddleEast.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Tolkein despies allegory.. so I doubt this...

 

[Gorgon]

Well Mrbadger, anything is possible.

Edit:Tolkein language is mix between Arabic, Hebrow, and English. Prove I saw in the first movie the script over the grave and it had many letters from Arabic and Hebrow with an English representation way.

 

[qckbeam]

You know jack shit.

Yeah right, I know the statistics for violent crimes in my home town alright, and I know that the vast percentage of violent crimes are commited by people who are black. I'm not saying it's because they are black, that would be a racist thing to say. Jesus Christ, I'm just stating facts here alright, don't get all pissy about it, I didn't say it to offend anyone. White people commit crimes too, lots of crimes.

Edit: Thanks for omitting the part in my quote where I stated that this was information relative to my hometown! Good job twisting my words!

 

[tommie]

I haven't read everything but what the hell, it's a god damn fantasy movie. Middle Earth isn't even based on our earth, it's another earth (from what my friend told me) and they (all of the LOTR characters) probably don't even know what racism is, if they do then my mistake, I haven't read the book. Racism is soooo 1724.

 

[Warbie]

Yeah right, I know the statistics for violent crimes in my home town alright, and I know that the vast percentage of violent crimes are commited by people who are black. I'm not saying it's because they are black, that would be a racist thing to say. Jesus Christ, I'm just stating facts here alright, don't get all pissy about it, I didn't say it to offend anyone. White people commit crimes too, lots of crimes.

Edit: Thanks for omitting the part in my quote where I stated that this was information relative to my hometown! Good job twisting my words!

I agree - last year we had similar statistics near where I live. Stating them doesn't make you a racist, anyone who believes otherwise is a moron.

 

[RoyalEF]

Yes, Saddam was the most evil man in the world, doing the worst things and... oh wait, he wasn't doing jack shit and didn't have an army or WMD worth shit. He killed 1,000s of revolters just after the gulf war because we gave them encouragement to attempt a coup and didn't back them. We also helped saddam when he was fighting against Iran (our enemy) and we didn't seem to mind when he used WMD against iranians gassing 10s of thousands to death. The world is filled with evil countries and leaders who don't do the right thing. We hae been that country--not doing the right thing. Nobody is going to f***ing invade us. Saddam wasn't doing shit when we invaded. We just used 9-11 as an excuse to invade. Absolutley nothing else to it. Just like some texas companies are involved in an Afghanistan pipeline which will proceed much smoother now that we tossed out the previous regime... but that wasn't about oil & money--that was revenge for 9-11. They were harboring Osama... oh wait...he's still in there... or somewhere else. All the damage to Afghanistan didn't do anything to reach "our objective" of getting OBL-least not yet.

Now, You see blacks as involved in crime because you were told that as was everybody else. Who steals more blacks or whites? Most would say blacks. Wrong! Add up the mountains of white collar theft and embezzelment that occurs in millions and WHite people are the biggest criminals per capita in the US. Billions of dollars in stock were liquidated due to the MCI scandal, all existing MCI stock is being invalidated--deleted from the stock market, like you never paid for it. People's pensions, savings are just vanishing... because of a bunch of white guys. How many blacks need to steal wallets to make just 1 billion dollars stolen?

It affects all of us. I worked in a department store and they used to post photos of regualr shoplifters. Mostly minorities. One day I saw a black kid shopping in underwear, as I was trained to, I "Customer Serviced" him until he left. This prevents stealing. I saw him as a theif first, customer... well not at all. I then realized that two white kids about the same age had been looking through the same underwear racks ten minutes before him. In my mind they were customers, not potential theives. I didn't bother to help them cause I was busy doing other work. I trusted two white teenagers shopping for undrwear at 8 PM at night who bought nothing and exited the store, but a black kid I stalk till he left. I realized that night I had bought into that wall of theives lie. We suspect we watch we catch minorites. We don't suspect, we don't watch, we don't catch whites. Because they are good folk. It is a lie. I know lots of white people who steal from the companies they've worked at. ANd very often they are serial theive cause they get away with it repeatedly--and not small stuff. $100.00 a night from registers, computer equipment like laptops, palm pilots.

But your life, your society, has convinced you that the bad people who steal only live in that poor section of town that is ignored and under funded in everyway imaginable. You know... where minorities live and all good white folk have deserted cause the neighborhood had "gotten bad"... gotten dark. It is those people in that poor section of town that don't know how to live properly and resort to immoral acts.

I am White, but I spent the first 25 years of my life living in all minority projects. Those places that most people lock their car doors when *driving by*. When a friend drove back to my house he wouldn't park in the parking lot of the projects. He parked across a busy street. I'm sure he had visions of coming out and finding his car up on blocks and gutted. Funny things is in 25 years I don't recall any stolen cars. And the only damaged ones were revenge slashing of tires stuff that were targetted at one vehicle. WHen I told someone where I grew up she was shocked. She said "I seemed like such a gentle, nice person" How could I have grown up in a minority neighborhood, only violent criminals are there.

I had friends in a nice white neighborhood. They always talked about how they hated their neighbors. They were always doing things to them. I never saw their neighbors. Never heard loud music, never knew what was so wrong with them. Then one day saw one of their kids come out. Black...that explained it. That's what made them bad neighbors. Had another friend bitterly complain about a visiting nurse. I made a mental bet she was black. I won. She was incredibly nice to them that day and they complained about her being TOO NICE. She stayed too long, she shouldn't have talked so much. This is how prejudices erode even the best of circumstances. It is very sad, but I've seen it my entire life. And it doesn't stop. And it isn't just races, its countries, sex, nationalities, classes. Any aspect that differentiaties us is used against people.

 

[Mr.Reak]

Now, You see blacks as involved in crime because you were told that as was everybody else. Who steals more blacks or whites? Most would say blacks. Wrong! Add up the mountains of white collar theft and embezzelment that occurs in millions and WHite people are the biggest criminals per capita in the US. Billions of dollars in stock were liquidated due to the MCI scandal, all existing MCI stock is being invalidated--deleted from the stock market, like you never paid for it. People's pensions, savings are just vanishing... because of a bunch of white guys. How many blacks need to steal wallets to make just 1 billion dollars stolen?

Uh, you do know that there is different % of white people living in this country, this why they are called majority. For being a minority, they sure have a big crime rate, but that’s not because they are black, they are poor.

 

[SubKamran]

Bunch of BS. LOTR kicks ass.

 

[Top Secret]

Most of you are being complete idiots. LOTR is not racist. Maybe the movies were, but the books (The originals) were not. I've read them countless times and I never remembered a character being described as 'black' or 'middle eastern'. God damnit people, listen to your selves! It's like looking around in a 'perfect' looking world. If you look hard enough, you WILL find a flaw. Same thing with racism, you WILL find it if you look hard enough. But that doesn't mean it was intentionally put there. Look at pool or bowling. OOOOHHHH NOO!!! Racism! Black ball knocking down all the white pins!!! Ohhh No! Jesus people, get the **** over it. I have so much respect for color blind people it's not even funny.

 

[ComradeBadger]

My friend is colourblind, he sees green as orange or something.

And Top Secret, most of us are protesting that this argument that LotR is racist is stupid

 

[niddhoggr]

How can it be racist? everybody is white! Look at all the extras, even the elephant riders were white!

Middle earth isn't a planet, it's a continent.

 

[Chris D]

This was probably already mentioned, but does anyone remember the fuss caused (and online petitions :: put simmo's avatar here:: ) when LOTR: The Two Towers was announced? A lot of people thought the name should change out of respect for 9/11.

 

[Dedalus]

that's so hilarious, did they seriously think they could get LOTR renamed? seriously, my sides are hurting. but it's a good example of what's happening here, people reading too much into things.

 

[Chris D]

Well I believe an online petiton was posted here to stop Valve from migrating to Steam.

I wasn't a mod at the time - I remember thinking though - "If I was a moderator, I would SO ban him!!!".

Online petition's are something I really really hate. In fact, petitions and protesting as a whole is pretty pointless in my eyes.

 

[Maskirovka]

Uh, you do know that there is different % of white people living in this country, this why they are called majority. For being a minority, they sure have a big crime rate, but that’s not because they are black, they are poor.

yes...you shouldn't trust statistics. poor whites commit just as many violent crimes as poor blacks...most violent crime and petty thefts come from poor communities...regardless of race.

and when's the last time you heard of a non-white non-hispanic serial killer in the US??? (before the serial snipers, i can't think of ANY off the top of my head...and they just shot people, they didn't rape them and bury them or anything weird like that) white people are just as ****ed up as everyone else.

 

[Sgt. Nate]

Yeah except that the majority of black people are middle class, not "po' ghetto black foke", and yet they still make up a high percentage of crime. I grew up in east oakland, and yes the neighborhoods ARE bad, my car DID get messed up, and almost all the crimes are caused by black and mexican people. But this isn't just on the east side, it's all over, and there's a crapload of white people in oakland too. See a trend? Call me racist, I don't really care. I'm half beaner and half cracker. I just call it how I see it. You can use that "it's because they are all poor" line till your face turns blue, but it's just false. 65 percent of black people are middle class. The percentage of upper class is about equal. All the minorities I've met, including my family, committ crimes or say they would if the opportunity arose. Maybe this is just california but that seems to be where a lot of them are anyway.

White people seem to have the craziest crimes because they have a sense of style other races lack, hehe. If you're gonna kill somebody and get locked up or fried, then go out with a bang.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

yes...you shouldn't trust statistics. poor whites commit just as many violent crimes as poor blacks...most violent crime and petty thefts come from poor communities...regardless of race.

and when's the last time you heard of a non-white non-hispanic serial killer in the US??? (before the serial snipers, i can't think of ANY off the top of my head...and they just shot people, they didn't rape them and bury them or anything weird like that) white people are just as ****ed up as everyone else.

Im quoting you because you are one of the last people to speak.

Its not the skin colour the really affects a persons actions. its the conditioning they go through in life. One part of that conditioning does however related to colour. Its sad but true that a lot of black people in america have a mindset we are poor and thats holding them down. Im not saying its entirely their fault, after all, white people brought thme over as slaves so thats what sparked it, but black people ar continuing the cycle. Same with indians. They live on the reservations in poverty, and yes, the white people put them there but they dont get try and i mean really try to escape. In fact, that sounds wrong. They native americans had one serious downfall that was a major facor in their "losing" to the whites. Alcohol. That really brought them to their knees and they couldnt get up again. Have you ever drivin past some of the reservations? The road side is just covered with beer bottles up until you actually get to the entrance anyway.
In reality, racism is sucha small issue, but there are certain people that blow it all out of proportion. On the one hand, you get the white anti racists who continually bash everything. You cannont describe a people group as "they" because its segragating them. Its all crazy. They go at Christmas, because its offensive. They even have a go at great works of art because they were painted by white middle class men and they depict scenes of Christianity or male domination i.e. a battlefield (yes...i read it in the paper a while back. In fact, Private eye makes a good aprody of it all). They say everything is offensive to different people groups. Now then, on another side, you get black people and such who have a go at white people...but its ok because its retribution (Since when has retribution been ok?! How does that make them any better than a slave trader?)


Anyway..im tired of typing now, so back on topic.

As far as racist lord of the rings goes....they made a mistake

 

[Maskirovka]

Its not the skin colour the really affects a persons actions. its the conditioning they go through in life. One part of that conditioning does however related to colour.

...

a huge percentage of voilent, domestic abuse, and theft-type crimes are comitted by poor people...white or black...that was my point. the donditioning people go through in life is different depending on their parents, their community, and their social status (usually determined by how much money people have)...it really has nothing to do with race in most cases.

and saying "black people lack the style white people have" is just retarded. please...there's some other reason other than "lack of style" that black people don't become serial killers...

 

[Brian Damage]

The temperature in this thread is riiiiissssssiiiinnnnng...

I really hate it when people start chucking statistics around. Most seem to contradict each other anyway.

I don't really believe that skin colour has anything to do genetically or biologically with what actions a person will end up performing. I'll leave it at that, I suppose.

And I think this thread is getting just a leetle off-topic...

 

[Maskirovka]

The temperature in this thread is riiiiissssssiiiinnnnng...

I really hate it when people start chucking statistics around. Most seem to contradict each other anyway.

I don't really believe that skin colour has anything to do genetically or biologically with what actions a person will end up performing. I'll leave it at that, I suppose.

And I think this thread is getting just a leetle off-topic...

yeah but we all agree that LOTR isn't racist, so ppl were just discussing something else that's related instead of making a completely new thread

 

[Brian Damage]

Okie dokie :thumbs:.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Threads like this also seem to turn into huge pointless debates which cant be ressolved because we all have different opinions and different views of whats right and wrong....Ah well, soon you will all have to bow before me an- wait, i shouldnt say that yet.

 

[thenerdguy]

OK sparrow. Kill the thread.
I got more from this thread than I thought was possible.

My two cents.
Every race has jackarses! White. Black. it does not really matter. Every one is equal. exept for wackos like jacko. (He doesn't really know what he is eather)
Its the stupid people that think because they are white or black or tan or yellow, they are better. Thay are not!
Ok my rant is over.
Kill the thread mods please.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Killed.