Manual or Automatic transmission?

Do you prefer to drive with manual or automatic transmission (gears)?


  • Total voters
    87
Double clutch.

Nuff said.

BTW people, there's a reason that auto-clutch systems are called SEMI-AUTOMATIC and not MANUAL...



It is, but it still isn't a manual :\

I'm going to give you a broad, popular source for you to start realizing your misconceptions between automatic and manual transmissions. From there start doing extensive research on transmissions.

F1 gearboxes, SMG's, and DSG's ARE CONVENTIONAL MANUAL GEARBOXES WITH COMPUTER CONTROLLED CLUTCHES.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequential_manual_gearbox

hell, i'll even snip to the point.

Sequential manual transmissions are true manual transmissions, and should not be confused with automatic transmissions that provide some degree of user shifting input. One commercial example of this type of automatic transmission is the Tiptronic transmission.
 
Won't enter the F1 debate, i know in my hear of hearts they are manuals with a computer controlled clutch.

For me, manual all the way. Never driven an auto, and don't want to now. Before i started driving i feared using a manual, thought i would **** up all the time, now i actually drive i couldn't imagine anything different.
 
Double clutch.

There was no clutch pedal and he was shifting normally. I doubt he had an unsynchronized gearbox. It's possible he just had an automatic with some weird rigged shift lever but there was no dash indicator.

I just did a search for "clutchless MT" and I got some results for clutchless manual transmissions so I'm not gonna try and figure it out. It seems they exist.
 
I hate driving an auto now. After driving a manual, my feet and right hand get so bored. I sometimes try to hit the clutch, but end up braking, and that's NO good :p
 
When I was in Phoenix I used to drive a coworker's car to work. It was a Mitsubishi Marage, 5 speed.

When I got my own car it was an auto with a pistol grip shifter so I liked to hold onto it.

One day I was not even paying attention and I slammed that thing into park while coming to a stop at a light. :/

All you could hear was "bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzclankclank click click click click..." and I was like "****".
The transmission went out a couple months after at about 1am when I went on a cruise to charge my new alt, but I think that's because it was sold to me without tranny oil and was already damaged. x_x

It had so many problems I pretty much just abandoned the car and it got towed away.
 
There was no clutch pedal and he was shifting normally. I doubt he had an unsynchronized gearbox. It's possible he just had an automatic with some weird rigged shift lever but there was no dash indicator.

I just did a search for "clutchless MT" and I got some results for clutchless manual transmissions so I'm not gonna try and figure it out. It seems they exist.

tip-tronics maybe?

Autos don't have a clutch

To my knowledge they do...

May very well be wrong though :p

F1 gearboxes, SMG's, and DSG's ARE CONVENTIONAL MANUAL GEARBOXES WITH COMPUTER CONTROLLED CLUTCHES.

Which makes it a semi-automatic...

Hell, you even said it yourself...

Sequential manual transmissions are true manual transmissions, and should not be confused with automatic transmissions that provide some degree of user shifting input. One commercial example of this type of automatic transmission is the Tiptronic transmission.

I can use wiki too :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_transmission

This removes the need for a clutch pedal which the driver otherwise needs to depress before making a gear change, since the clutch itself is actuated by electronic equipment which can synchronise the timing and torque required to make gear shifts quick and smooth
 
Sinkoman.....

Sequential Transmissions are Manuals. I mean lets just bold this part of that quote,
Sequential manual transmissions are true manual transmissions, and should not be confused with automatic transmissions that provide some degree of user shifting input. One commercial example of this type of automatic transmission is the Tiptronic transmission.

It does not say "Sequential manual transmissions are semi-automatic transmissions". It says "true manual transmissions".

Now lets take a look at the next part of the quote,
Sequential manual transmissions are true manual transmissions, and should not be confused with automatic transmissions that provide some degree of user shifting input. One commercial example of this type of automatic transmission is the Tiptronic transmission.
That is what you are doing.

The Tiptronic transmission is refering to...
Sequential manual transmissions are true manual transmissions, and should not be confused with automatic transmissions that provide some degree of user shifting input. One commercial example of this type of automatic transmission is the Tiptronic transmission.
 
Sinkoman.....

Sequential Transmissions are Manuals. I mean lets just bold this part of that quote,


It does not say "Sequential manual transmissions are semi-automatic transmissions". It says "true manual transmissions".

Now lets take a look at the next part of the quote,

That is what you are doing.

The Tiptronic transmission is refering to...

I won't bother continuing the argument, as I really don't know shit about cars :\

I just knew that, to my knowledge, a semi-automatic was just a manual with a computer controlled clutch.
 
Real men don't use a clutch or tac, they match rpms by ear.
 
well i've never learned how to drive manual, but i really want to learn..and fast since i'm getting a manual car this summer.

I've only been driving for a little over a year, so how long do you think it'll take to get used a manual?
 
Autos don't have a clutch or any forced input from the driver.

All automatic gearboxes have clutches. If they didn't, they couldn't change gear. And many automatic gearboxes allow manual selection of gears - useful for controlling engine speed on windy twisty roads, or steep descents.

I've had both. Currently I drive an automatic. A Mercedes E-class with a 3 litre engine. Its lovely to drive, very relaxing, and not slow either.

It depends on what you want from a car. The Mercedes is my work car. The car I'm saving up for, another TVR, will be my play car. That will have a manual gearbox.

Oh and whoever said that automatic gearboxes are unreliable clearly has no idea of what they're talking about.
 
well i've never learned how to drive manual, but i really want to learn..and fast since i'm getting a manual car this summer.

I've only been driving for a little over a year, so how long do you think it'll take to get used a manual?

Takes about a day to be "able" to drive. Takes probably a month to have no worries about stalling on a hill.
 
All automatic gearboxes have clutches. If they didn't, they couldn't change gear.
Not all have a clutch, at least not mechanical clutch some use solely a fluid coupling.

Oh and whoever said that automatic gearboxes are unreliable clearly has no idea of what they're talking about.
That's me, they are not as reliable as a manual, ok so they are not a great amount worse but a manual driven properly will generally require less work/maintainance than an auto.

This is at least the case with european cars, where manaul is the dominant technology, the cost of the car also comes into play, a high end manufacturer usually makes more cars in automatic, thus these gearboxes are gonna be of the higher standard.
 
I won't bother continuing the argument, as I really don't know shit about cars :\

I just knew that, to my knowledge, a semi-automatic was just a manual with a computer controlled clutch.

Then why are you going around saying that semi-automatic transmissions aren't manual transmissions? They are manual transmissions.

when I mentioned semi-automatic, I never said the gearboxes(SMG and SMG II) were automatic transmissions, but, the clutches ARE AUTOMATED - they still are manual transmissions ;)

I will stand corrected if 'semi-automatic transmissions' are not manual transmissions, but, automatic transmissions. Because from my understanding, they are basically sequentials, just a different name.
 
It drives me absolutely wild when people call it 'standard.' Do you call coke/sprite/mtn dew 'pop' as well? When you order a 'pie' do you get it with pepperoni?

Standard would mean that a manual transmission was in more cars than an automatic, which isn't true. For instance from my window I can see 10 cars (counting one of my own) and 9 of them are automatics. Yes I realize there's 50 billion cars on the road, but next time you're at the grocery store parking lot take a look at the cars.

Standard doesn't even describe the gearbox or anything about it. How the hell did this word start identifying it?

Alright fine, as I said earlier you can't hold that drink you bought from Mickey-D's in your hand and have the straw constantly in your mouth while your driving in a manual.

Manual transmissions were referred to as standard in the 30's and 40's because automatic was a rare luxury. I'm guessing that it just carried through from then.

Manual all the way, I loved driving the 2002 way more than my '96 simply because of the stick.

My girlfriend likes manuals so much she gave her Trans Am's stick a BJ.
 
Just because they say manual transmissions are standard doesn't have to mean that they are the most common. They use the term 'standard' for manuals to describe the degree of requirement.

Automatics are not necessarily required to drive a car, like what wakiwaki said... automatics are considered a luxury.

That is also the reason why if you walk into the stealership to buy a new car, you won't get charged extra for buying the traditional manual... but, if you wanted an automatic, you're going to end up paying a bit more.
 
Then why are you going around saying that semi-automatic transmissions aren't manual transmissions? They are manual transmissions.

when I mentioned semi-automatic, I never said the gearboxes(SMG and SMG II) were automatic transmissions, but, the clutches ARE AUTOMATED - they still are manual transmissions ;)

I will stand corrected if 'semi-automatic transmissions' are not manual transmissions, but, automatic transmissions. Because from my understanding, they are basically sequentials, just a different name.

I was just under the impression that things like the F1 transmissions were neither manual, nor automatic, yet somewhere in between :\
 
I guess the analogy I can use to help differentiate between manual and automatic is this: would you call a drill where you press a button and electronics turn the bit a manual drill or a power (aka automatic) drill?

Won't enter the F1 debate, i know in my hear of hearts they are manuals with a computer controlled clutch.

It really really really bothers me that people here are calling paddle shifters a manual transmission. A manual transmission is just that, a transmission controlled MANUALLY by the driver. Pressing a button is NOT changing gears. When you press the button you are asking a computer to change the gear for you. That's like walking into a toy factory, flipping the "on" switch and saying you just manually built 20,000 toys that day. No you didn't! You made a system to do it for you. Sure the system couldn't have done it without you, but with that logic then nothing on a car is automatic.

The car can't start without you turning the key so it's a manual start car, the AC can't turn on without you turning the knob so now you're manually cooling the cabin, the spark plug would never fire if you didn't turn the key either so now you're manually igniting each spark plug while manually injecting fuel into each cylinder, if it's raining outside then you're manually cleaning your windows because you turned the knob to make it happen. I'm manually sending each bit of data to everywhere on the internet right now because my computer would never be able to do it if I didn't press the power button, I manually wash the dishes each night when I press press the "super cycle" button on the dish washer, and I manually wash my clothes at the same time when I turn the knob to "60 minutes."

Just because you MANUALLY request that the computer change the gears for you, it does not make it a manual transmission. When you press the button to shift you did not physically change the gear, when you push your shifter into third you physically did.


Automatics are not necessarily required to drive a car, like what wakiwaki said... automatics are considered a luxury.

So if we call a manual 'standard' because it's standard equipment, then why don't we call automatics 'optional'? As in "Hey is your mom's car an optional?" or "Is that car optioned?"
 
I drive a manual, tought to drive on a manual. I find driving an auto fairly boring. I downshift to slow down and once you get used to it it's easy.
 
So if we call a manual 'standard' because it's standard equipment, then why don't we call automatics 'optional'? As in "Hey is your mom's car an optional?" or "Is that car optioned?"

The same reason you don't call a burger a meat paddy with bread, or a jerry can a gasoline container.
 
I guess the analogy I can use to help differentiate between manual and automatic is this: would you call a drill where you press a button and electronics turn the bit a manual drill or a power (aka automatic) drill?



It really really really bothers me that people here are calling paddle shifters a manual transmission. A manual transmission is just that, a transmission controlled MANUALLY by the driver. Pressing a button is NOT changing gears. When you press the button you are asking a computer to change the gear for you. That's like walking into a toy factory, flipping the "on" switch and saying you just manually built 20,000 toys that day. No you didn't! You made a system to do it for you. Sure the system couldn't have done it without you, but with that logic then nothing on a car is automatic.

The car can't start without you turning the key so it's a manual start car, the AC can't turn on without you turning the knob so now you're manually cooling the cabin, the spark plug would never fire if you didn't turn the key either so now you're manually igniting each spark plug while manually injecting fuel into each cylinder, if it's raining outside then you're manually cleaning your windows because you turned the knob to make it happen. I'm manually sending each bit of data to everywhere on the internet right now because my computer would never be able to do it if I didn't press the power button, I manually wash the dishes each night when I press press the "super cycle" button on the dish washer, and I manually wash my clothes at the same time when I turn the knob to "60 minutes."

Just because you MANUALLY request that the computer change the gears for you, it does not make it a manual transmission. When you press the button to shift you did not physically change the gear, when you push your shifter into third you physically did.




So if we call a manual 'standard' because it's standard equipment, then why don't we call automatics 'optional'? As in "Hey is your mom's car an optional?" or "Is that car optioned?"

Ummm, we actually do call automatic an option and it really is. :LOL: So get with the industry standard when it comes to car. :LOL:
 
The same reason you don't call a burger a meat paddy with bread, or a jerry can a gasoline container.

that doesn't make sense though, because people do call a manual "standard" because it is.

Ummm, we actually do call automatic an option and it really is. :LOL: So get with the industry standard when it comes to car. :LOL:

I have never heard anybody in my entire life say, "Dude my car's an option." or "Yea my mom drives an optioned car." or "How much extra is the option transmission?" or "Hey my option transmission is having trouble are there any mechanics that can repair my option?"

Just typing it out sounds retarded.

"1994 option, non-turbo supra for sale" no...
 
that doesn't make sense though, because people do call a manual "standard" because it is.



I have never heard anybody in my entire life say, "Dude my car's an option." or "Yea my mom drives an optioned car."

i'm referring to the transmission.

More like "Dude, my car has options" :)

along with the optional power windows, sunroof, navigation, leather seats etc etc

You don't have to be so literal with it, calm down.


and please do note: you're most likely going to drive your car out of the lot with some sort of option.
 
It really really really bothers me that people here are calling paddle shifters a manual transmission. A manual transmission is just that, a transmission controlled MANUALLY by the driver. Pressing a button is NOT changing gears. When you press the button you are asking a computer to change the gear for you. That's like walking into a toy factory, flipping the "on" switch and saying you just manually built 20,000 toys that day. No you didn't! You made a system to do it for you. Sure the system couldn't have done it without you, but with that logic then nothing on a car is automatic.

You are manually selecting the gear with a paddle, rather than relying on centrifugal force or whatever.

If you are manually deleting files from your computer doesn't mean, "im inside ur computer, deletin ur files" :imu:


Like if you can't find the remote to the TV, you might have to get up and change the channel manually. That doesn't mean you are in there, hot-wiring circuit boards.

Even if you are using the traditional manual transmission, did you put your hands inside the transmission and push the clutch plate either? So then no. No, no, no. cute, but no.

It's a manual with an automatic clutch.
 
Even if you are using the traditional manual transmission, did you put your hands inside the transmission and push the clutch plate either? So then no. No, no, no. cute, but no.

Right but when I shift the gears in my gti, I pull a lever which pulls a knob, which turns on a pivot point, and pulls another rod, and turns a connection and my gear changes. That's a direct physical link between my shifter and the gears in the transmission. The clutch pedal in my car connects to a cable that connects to a lever that operates the clutch.

When I blip the left paddle in a new GTi I ask a computer if it will change the gear down for me, and if it says it's okay then the computer down shifts. That is not a direct physical connection, because not only is it electrical, but you have to pass through some electronic overlord that in the end does the work for you if it says it's okay. The clutch in a GTi with DSG is operated by a computer and I have no control over what it does, I can only tell it when to do it...if the overlord lets me.

What you're saying is that there's no such thing as an automatic transmission since I'm not taking my hands and moving gears. However we both know that's impossible on a moving vehicle so the next best thing is a direct, mechanical connection between driver and machine. Any computer intervention BREAKS this connection.

I mean, am I ****ing taking crazy pills here?! Paddle shifters are a manual, a manual is a manual, tiptronic is a manual (since the driver can select gears), my mom's maxima is a manual because I can select 1, 2, and 'D', even if the transmission only had 'D' on it IT WOULD BE STILL MANUAL because I can select what gear the transmission is on by how hard I accelerate and what speed I drive! If all of those things are ****ing manual transmission then WHAT THE **** IS AN AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION?!
 
that doesn't make sense though, because people do call a manual "standard" because it is.

My point was that that's just how people have always said it and that's how they keep doing it. Like your stupid imperial measurement system.
 
Right but when I shift the gears in my gti, I pull a lever which pulls a knob, which turns on a pivot point, and pulls another rod, and turns a connection and my gear changes. That's a direct physical link between my shifter and the gears in the transmission. The clutch pedal in my car connects to a cable that connects to a lever that operates the clutch.

When I blip the left paddle in a new GTi I ask a computer if it will change the gear down for me, and if it says it's okay then the computer down shifts. That is not a direct physical connection, because not only is it electrical, but you have to pass through some electronic overlord that in the end does the work for you if it says it's okay. The clutch in a GTi with DSG is operated by a computer and I have no control over what it does, I can only tell it when to do it...if the overlord lets me.

What you're saying is that there's no such thing as an automatic transmission since I'm not taking my hands and moving gears. However we both know that's impossible on a moving vehicle so the next best thing is a direct, mechanical connection between driver and machine. Any computer intervention BREAKS this connection.

I mean, am I ****ing taking crazy pills here?! Paddle shifters are a manual, a manual is a manual, tiptronic is a manual (since the driver can select gears), my mom's maxima is a manual because I can select 1, 2, and 'D', even if the transmission only had 'D' on it IT WOULD BE STILL MANUAL because I can select what gear the transmission is on by how hard I accelerate and what speed I drive! If all of those things are ****ing manual transmission then WHAT THE **** IS AN AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION?!


oh my god. It's the difference between manual trannies and automatic trannies. Automatic trannies have torque converters and manuals don't. F1 gearboxes, SMG I and II DONT HAVE TORQUE CONVERTERS. What we were trying to tell you was, these systems are manuals because of the core basic way they are built and operate in itself. A manual isn't a manual because the driver is yanking on the shift lever while stepping on a clutch.

and btw tiptronics are automatic transmissions from porsche
 
Right but when I shift the gears in my gti, I pull a lever which pulls a knob, which turns on a pivot point, and pulls another rod, and turns a connection and my gear changes. That's a direct physical link between my shifter and the gears in the transmission. The clutch pedal in my car connects to a cable that connects to a lever that operates the clutch.

When I blip the left paddle in a new GTi I ask a computer if it will change the gear down for me, and if it says it's okay then the computer down shifts. That is not a direct physical connection, because not only is it electrical, but you have to pass through some electronic overlord that in the end does the work for you if it says it's okay. The clutch in a GTi with DSG is operated by a computer and I have no control over what it does, I can only tell it when to do it...if the overlord lets me.

What you're saying is that there's no such thing as an automatic transmission since I'm not taking my hands and moving gears. However we both know that's impossible on a moving vehicle so the next best thing is a direct, mechanical connection between driver and machine. Any computer intervention BREAKS this connection.

I mean, am I ****ing taking crazy pills here?! Paddle shifters are a manual, a manual is a manual, tiptronic is a manual (since the driver can select gears), my mom's maxima is a manual because I can select 1, 2, and 'D', even if the transmission only had 'D' on it IT WOULD BE STILL MANUAL because I can select what gear the transmission is on by how hard I accelerate and what speed I drive! If all of those things are ****ing manual transmission then WHAT THE **** IS AN AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION?!


Whats the difference between pulling levers and push rods, and sending current through wires then? Either way, you are indirectly doing it.


The overlord.. the computer...that 'gives you permission to shift'. It just makes sure your RPM's are OK so you don't break anything.

There is the same thing on your 'true' manual transmission that won't let you shift into the wrong gears. Syncronizer or something. Try putting it in 1st gear at 50 MPH, and the underlord won't let you. It's only if the mechanical mechanism says it's OK that you will be able to.

See how there is really no difference?


The only thing that used to bug me is the automatic clutch. Why don't they just call a paddle shifter a semi-auto, and get it over with?


I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about it. Call it what you want, but I wouldn't get upset at people for what they call it, because they are only sheep, going with the best known naming convention. If you go against the grain and call it what you think it should be called, no one will know what you are talking about, so that's pretty pointless.

There are many things in life that didn't get an appropriate name. Hamburgers aren't even made of ham.
 
Whats the difference between pulling levers and push rods, and sending current through wires then? Either way, you are indirectly doing it.


The overlord.. the computer...that 'gives you permission to shift'. It just makes sure your RPM's are OK so you don't break anything.

There is the same thing on your 'true' manual transmission that won't let you shift into the wrong gears. Syncronizer or something. Try putting it in 1st gear at 50 MPH, and the underlord won't let you. It's only if the mechanical mechanism says it's OK that you will be able to.

See how there is really no difference?


The only thing that used to bug me is the automatic clutch. Why don't they just call a paddle shifter a semi-auto, and get it over with?


I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about it. Call it what you want, but I wouldn't get upset at people for what they call it, because they are only sheep, going with the best known naming convention. If you go against the grain and call it what you think it should be called, no one will know what you are talking about, so that's pretty pointless.

There are many things in life that didn't get an appropriate name. Hamburgers aren't even made of ham. Go ahead and shoot this one down, and I can come up with more, so don't waste our time.


exactly.

we ended up arguing over semantics... there are norms in the automobile world, make it easier for everyone and follow/learn these norms... because they are widely accepted that way. And yes, it is sheepish, but, hell... a lot of shit in society is. It's how we get by :)
 
oh my god. Automatic trannies have torque converters and manuals don't.

but "manual" and "automatic" describe the way it shifts gears! Do you manually shift the gears or will the car automatically shift them for you?

On the mercedes website the 2007 E350 is described as having a "5-speed automatic transmission" and I know for a fact the mercedes system does not have a torque converter.

And again, "AMG-enhanced 7-speed automatic with AMG SPEEDSHIFT?. Electronically controlled shifting. Driver-adaptive programming adjusts shift points to the driver's current driving style. Touch Shift permits the driver to manually downshift and allows upshifts by nudging the shift lever left or right of the Drive position."

So even mercedes says it's an automatic transmission and the driver has the option to manually change gears on the AUTOMATIC transmission.

On the VW site it describes DSG as a, "6-speed automatic" and that you can also get a "6-speed manual."

So how do you explain that, a mercedes declared automatic transmission that does not have a torque converter and a VW declared automatic transmissions with two clutches are still being considered to be a manual?


Whats the difference between pulling levers and push rods, and sending current through wires then? Either way, you are indirectly doing it.
You really do not see a difference between mechanical and electrical systems?
 
You really do not see a difference between mechanical and electrical systems?

There is a difference, but for the point of this argument there isn't one. Whats the difference between pulling a lever and pulling a switch? Electrical or mechanical, it's still indirect, that's all.

If anything is inappropriately named, it's just to avoid confusion with people that don't study engineering, but just want to buy a car.
 
That's it, you're all on notice.
colbertpingly9.png
 
Manual. Engine braking, fuel efficiency and that manly feeling of gear changing.

*cannot be arsed reading whole thread*
 
Parrot of doom: All automatic gearboxes have clutches. If they didn't, they couldn't change gear.

Sorry but I need to fix this one up, autos don't always have clutches. Thats the ingenious thing about them. They use torque converters (look it up) hence autos have been around since the forty's. Long before computers could control clutches for us.
Anyway this has been done to death, let's let it go.
 
Sorry but I need to fix this one up, autos don't always have clutches. Thats the ingenious thing about them. They use torque converters (look it up) hence autos have been around since the forty's. Long before computers could control clutches for us.

Sorry but I need to fix this one up, all autos ALWAYS have a clutch or clutch pack, because friction discs are what transfers the energy from the torque converter to a driveline, differential, planetary gears, whatever.

In fact, an auto tranny has multiple clutches. Torque converter clutch, high clutch drum, reverse clutch, forward clutch..

Autos that don't use the clutch pack/friction disc design use bands but they still have a clutch housing.

I guess what I'm saying is you should be specific about which clutch autos don't have. ;)
 
Sorry but I need to fix this one up, autos don't always have clutches. Thats the ingenious thing about them. They use torque converters (look it up) hence autos have been around since the forty's. Long before computers could control clutches for us.
Anyway this has been done to death, let's let it go.

I guess you haven't 'looked it up' since a torque convertor is not the device that changes the gear being used. It is a fluid coupling, nothing more.
 
I won't bother continuing the argument, as I really don't know shit about cars :\

I just knew that, to my knowledge, a semi-automatic was just a manual with a computer controlled clutch.
I believe it goes into the actual mechanics of the car.
A semi-automatic transmission is mechanically similiar to an automatic.

A sequential transmission is mechanically similiar to a manual.

but "manual" and "automatic" describe the way it shifts gears! Do you manually shift the gears or will the car automatically shift them for you?
It describes the mechanics inside the car, not the way it shifts gears. Another type of transmission is called "semi-automatic", does that mean it only shifts the gear half way and you have to manually shift it the rest?. Of course not!
 
Back
Top