Massachusetts to decriminalise Pot

Absinthe said:
Shrooms can be more intense on your psychological state.

People who do shrooms are not likely to plan on driving a car any time soon, have no real risk of overdosing on the substance, and at worst will probably only result in a bad trip. Fatal trips involving some dude leaping off his balcony or walking into traffic - the latter being an act of idiocy more than anything - are rare, though sensationalized.
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Although the latter is an act of idiocy tht idiocy is the result of the drug and not the person. For anyone arguing that shrooms (or any hallucinogen for that matter) are safer than alcohol I personally don't think you know what you are talking about. The way the drug affects some people it can turn them in to total psychopaths. Add guns in to the equation (which every home in this country has) and it becomes way more dangerous than what alcohol could ever do. I don't think a lot of people fully understand the risks of this and the way hallucinogens are glorified makes me a little sick.
 
No Limit said:
Although the latter is an act of idiocy tht idiocy is the result of the drug and not the person.
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If you're taking shrooms and you are anywhere near traffic, it's your fault. There are many simple precautions a person can take, ranging from cleaning your area of potentially dangerous objects to having a sitter with you. I know people who have locked themselves in their homes just to stay safe. Most of the danger with shrooms comes from how a person goes about using them. If you die or get injured in a situation you could have avoided through some preparation, that is the fault of the person.
 
Mr. Love looooooves pot as much as you.
He hates you.
So I hate pot.
 
Absinthe said:
If you're taking shrooms and you are anywhere near traffic, it's your fault. There are many simple precautions a person can take, ranging from cleaning your area of potentially dangerous objects to having a sitter with you. I know people who have locked themselves in their homes just to stay safe. Most of the danger with shrooms comes from how a person goes about using them. If you die or get injured in a situation you could have avoided through some preparation, that is the fault of the person.
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That's really easy to say with a clear mind. The problem is once you lose your mind 2 hours in to the 8 hour trip there are many things that could go very wrong. I don't see how locking yourself in a house is an effective safety precaution, doors aren't very hard to unlock even when tripping balls. Sitters aren't always very effective, especially if you are capable of kicking the sitters ass. There is nothing you can do to prepare yourself for a reaction where you totally lose your mind, and that reaction is far more dangerous than anything alcohol could ever produce. It doesn't happen to everyone, but when it does happen to someone it can turn in to a really ****ed up situation.
 
So the lesson here, as with most things in life, is that something can go wrong.

Point taken. Still, most potential problems can be done away with if people take necessary precautions. They are further reduced if you are familiar with the substance and have an idea of what to expect and what amount is good for you. Finally, most bad trips are, at their worst, heavily discomforting and not necessarily prone to freaking out and doing something drastic (and dangerous).

This is not to say that there is no risk. But in comparison to alcohol, which is what this was originally about, I'd argue that its potential for harm both to yourself and to others is vastly overshadowed. For every person who takes a few too many shrooms and has a shitty night, there are more people drinking themselves to death or incurring long-term illnesses from it. And I'd say alcohol is more dangerous because of its comparatively subtler manipulation of perception. Shrooms may convince you of some pretty fantastical things, but it's not the same as the kind of drunken confidence that puts you behind the wheel of a car thinking you're cool to drive.
 
I am the last person to aruge against personal freedom. But I don't think you ever experianced or been around someone that has completely lost their mind off shrooms. I think your comparison to alcohol is flawed because as someone already pointed out there are very few people on this planet that don't drink whereas most people have never tried shrooms. If you made them freely available I think the amount of people dying from them would drastically increase.

You also keep repeating that you can be faimiliar with the substance. There is no way you can ever predict how a hallucinogen will affect you. You might have done a hallucinogen such as shrooms 20 times before but you have no way of knowing what will happen on the 21st. Your physcological mood and your enviroment will greatly affect how your trip ends up. But what I'm actually more worried about is people that have never done them doing it, because they have absolutely no idea as to what they are getting in to. And we don't only have to talk about instant death from these, these drugs can have a permenant mental effect on you. I've had more than enough experiance in this to know that this drug can be extremely dangerous, a lot more dangerous than alcohol ever will be. I am trying to find some stats on the amount of deaths from shrooms and I am coming up empty, if anyone has information like this I'd love to see it.
 
I personally have never been against the idea of taking marijuana. If you want to take it, go ahead, its your right to do what you want, I only want to stick my foot in the door and have something done about it when people take too much or go too far.

Against alcohol? Hah, marijuana has nothing on how deadly alcohol is.

Whats pissing me off is that the government doesnt want you to use your drugs, they want you to use their drugs. Chris Rock said something like 'if coke and weed were legal, there'd be a coke and weed shop on every ***king corner'.

And its so true, until the government gets money off you each time you use it, itll always been seen as illegal.

And ***k what the government thinks when they say theyre doing it for our safety. For our safety eh? Then why the ***k do you let us get prescriptions where they give you like 20 pills to be taken every 4 hours for x amount of days, when if you wanted to you could just down all of them in one and kill yourself.

Thats where the problem truly lies, not the drug itself, just the people that take too much of it and do something dangerous/deadly/anything else society would wave their judgmental sticks at.

Like 'guns dont kill people. idiots with guns kill people.'
 
Yes, the two drugs are treated differently, and I frame my argument within their common usage. I'd be more concerned if people took shrooms as often as they drink beer and wine. But this is not the case. If they were made freely available, it still wouldn't be a drug you'd use/abuse regularly.

And while your trips can still vary significantly no matter how experienced you are with them, an experienced user is nonetheless more prepared than somebody who has never done them before, and it can make all the difference between between a pleasant experience and a trip gone bad. Somebody who has done shrooms before has a better idea of what to expect and how it will affect him, he can dose appropriately, and he's better equipped to differentiate between a hallucination and reality. Mileage obviously varies and there's still the chance of things turning the south, but it's something more within your control than if you were totally green. You mention mood and environment - both things you have the power to exert control over - and if neither are right for the occasion, you can always not do the drugs.

I'm quickly searching for any information on long-term effects, but so far I've seen very little. People with a predisposition towards mental illness may be negatively affected and there are cases of persistent flashbacks. Can't say I'm surprised or feel that it weakens my stance on the matter. The point remains that most people are still not going to be doing shrooms regularly enough to have it make any significant effect on their lives were it to be legalized. And if you wanna play it safe, there's always the safety and comfort of a trip in your living room. Most shrooms-related deaths I've heard of have been due to two factors: bad trip, poor environment to be tripping in.
 
You make a fair point that people won't take shrooms as often as they might drink. But where alcohol most deaths result because of DUI in the case of shrooms most deaths result from the fact that the person went completely crazy and did something stupid, such as jump off a bridge. If you release this drug to the masses examples of this happening will be a lot more common, I don't think you'd argue with that.

I was watching a show on history channel yesterday about the brain, they claim 1 in 100 people on this planet are psychopaths but most go on through their life without any sort of incident. Common sense would tell me that these people would do something, well, psychotic under the influance of shrooms and if more people are taking them you have more of a chance that psychopaths will take them.

We can argue about this all day and probably never agree, I just wish there were some statistics out there we could use. If I find anything I'll let you know.

Also, there might not be a lot of research on the long term effects but I have no doubt in my mind that it does cause long term effects on certain people.
 
No Limit said:
Although the latter is an act of idiocy tht idiocy is the result of the drug and not the person. For anyone arguing that shrooms (or any hallucinogen for that matter) are safer than alcohol I personally don't think you know what you are talking about. The way the drug affects some people it can turn them in to total psychopaths. Add guns in to the equation (which every home in this country has) and it becomes way more dangerous than what alcohol could ever do. I don't think a lot of people fully understand the risks of this and the way hallucinogens are glorified makes me a little sick.
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If you jump out of a window while tripping, only you are hurt. If you are drunk and you get into a fight or drive, other people will get hurt, not just you. Plus, shrooms are way less toxic than booze.

And I would like to add, shrooms have been legal in Holland for years, and yet very few people have hurt themselves, and fewer still died (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_psilocybin_mushrooms#The_Netherlands - I will try to find a better source later).
 
Atomic_Piggy said:
If you jump out of a window while tripping, only you are hurt. If you are drunk and you get into a fight or drive, other people will get hurt, not just you. Plus, shrooms are way less toxic than booze.
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That's a simple example. I can totally see some guy tripping balls thinking that the world is after him taking his guns and doing something about it. Actually it wouldn't shock me if this has already happened.
 
If you release this drug to the masses examples of this happening will be a lot more common, I don't think you'd argue with that.
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Uhh.. I do argue with that.

They are available to the masses here and 92% of incidents with them are from tourists. Often under influence of other drugs or used by people with existing mental conditions. What does that tell you? They have a restrictive drug policy and they fuck up like this.

Legality ensures proper education on their use and shrooms with a known and reliable potency.

Also, I think you are confusing hallucinogenic mushrooms with the mushroom cloud that turned Bruce Banner into the Hulk. You won't unhinge doors and throw people around like ragdolls.
 
From what I understand dried shrooms are not legal in your country. I don't have any experiance with fresh shrooms but I would guess they aren't nearly as extreme as dried ones.
 
No Limit said:
From what I understand dried shrooms are not legal in your country. I don't have any experiance with fresh shrooms but I would guess they aren't nearly as extreme as dried ones.
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They were.
 
No Limit said:
How long ago? I find the netherlands an awesome place because it lets us test the effect drugs actually have on a society.
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Dried shrooms were banned in 2007, fresh shrooms will be banned by the 1st of december.

The reason? A series of dubious incidents with tourists.

- 17 year old French girl commits suicide by jumping off a bridge, claiming to be on shrooms, but there was no autopsy so we can't be sure of that. She had a history of suicide attemps and obviously not a stable person.

- Tourist eats spacecake, shrooms and drinks beer. When he feels no effect of the shrooms he takes some more. Trashes hotel and himself.

- French man kills dog while claiming to be high on shrooms and pot. No trace of psilocybin mushrooms were found in his blood.

Seeing a pattern here?

And these really are the reasons they are now banning shrooms, mostly the first one. Utterly retarded.
 
No Limit said:
From what I understand dried shrooms are not legal in your country. I don't have any experiance with fresh shrooms but I would guess they aren't nearly as extreme as dried ones.
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you don't seem to know too much about mushrooms...have you ever tried them?
 
No Limit said:
From what I understand dried shrooms are not legal in your country. I don't have any experiance with fresh shrooms but I would guess they aren't nearly as extreme as dried ones.
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No difference whatsoever. By volume they have the same effect - fresh mushrooms actually are slightly more potent because the psilocin has not all disappeared (dry shrooms only contain psilocybin generally). By weight they're obviously different but that's because one is dry and one is wet. If you eat 3 dried shrooms you'd be tripping the same as eating the same 3 shrooms wet/fresh.
 
I want some shrooms now. But like, on a pizza. Not to trip out.
 
Tyguy said:
you don't seem to know too much about mushrooms...have you ever tried them?
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Im not the type of person that gets on the internet and talks about past drug experiances. But I try not to talk out of my ass, so if I didn't know what I was talking about then I wouldn't be having this discussion right now.

If I am wrong on the fresh vs dried part then sue me, sorry I'm not a scientist in the area.

The reason? A series of dubious incidents with tourists
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Do you have a source that there were no texology tests done on that 17 year old girl? These incidents are not dubious, they do happen. And I'll bet they happen often, I just can't find any stats on it.
 
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