MGS4 has '90 minute' cut-scenes

[Asuka]

No. I laughed out loud. I think it's a testament to how clueless they are about game design and narrative.

I love your arrogance its borderline delusional.

 

[Pesmerga]

You're missing the point, I'm not talking about raw sales. Hell if we're looking at raw sales, then Titanic is one of the greatest movies of all time (it certainly isn't). To emphasize my point:

Popularity =/= Quality

Catering to the masses is fine, but if you put any of those games against most of the imdb top 250 (some notable exceptions) and it's obvious how one medium is superior over the other in terms of quality. Despite how good HL2 is, putting it into direct competition with a series like Godfather or hell, even Star Wars, and there's really no competition.

Uh, that's entirely subjective. I enjoyed HL2 and episodes far more than I have any movie. I go back and play these games, but very rarely do I watch a movie more than twice, and even rarer do I buy the DVD. It being subjective, therefore, it is perfectly legitimate to say that popularity=quality. If more people payed to watch it, and more people liked it, then I'd say that the overall consensus was that the movie was a good one.

So while you may think that the Godfather is "better" than any video game out there, that would be your opinion. Not that you even were trying to make the point you just made...

As is, games are like a minor league sports team compared to it's big brother film counterparts. Don't get me wrong, I love games, just that when you compare the two medium there's really no contest over which one holding more weight over the end user.

Games aren't like a minor league sport- they're a multi-billion dollar business. To say video games aren't a contender in the entertainment business is ludicrously stupid. Game developers put more than code and color into their game- they invest heavily into research, art, and making their games genuinely fun. And the gaming industry is relatively young- it being around for a mere 30 years while the movie industry is running with thousands of years of composition, writing, and theatrical experience under its belt. You think movie ideas today are original? Every movie I've seen is basically a twist of greek tragedy, Shakespearean play, or some classic writer.

I'd argue that classic games today put today's movies to shame. Especially considering that today's movies are lackluster, to put it lightly.

 

[ríomhaire]

I think he may speaking about media as an artform, in which case no game is really very qualified.

 

[Pesmerga]

I think you're wrong. I think developing a game is as much of an art as developing a movie or a painting.

 

[ríomhaire]

I think we have different definitions of art.

 

[Pesmerga]

I think your definition of art sucks.

 

[Gargantou]

Why are you such a troll? You're mildly annoying and I'd rather not have you speak to me anymore. You're my internet stalker. You follow me around and make poorly thought out derogatory comments. It's weird and more than a little pathetic. **** off.

Wow someone's in a bad mood today.

Also, Asuka calling Samon for arrogant = LOL.

 

[Slug Advisor]

Haha, I can already see the impending flamewar.

 

[Asknoone]

I love your arrogance its borderline delusional.

So because I think that a 90 minute cutscene (putting that into perspective: an hour and a half, and the length of an average movie), in a game - that you play - in order to understand the story, in order to really enjoy the game, is sincerely missing the point of game design narrative, I'm not just arrogant, I'm borderline delusional? Is that what you are honestly saying? And are you honestly telling me that a 90 minute cutscene being necessary to understand the story is truly good game design? That Kojima isn't clever enough to convey his narrative any other way, say, in the game world? Is that what you are telling Corporal Keyboard Basher?

Say it ain't so.

I mean, there is no 90 minute cutscene. I think you know, even Kojima wouldn't go to those lengths. I just don't see it. And I also don't see anyone sitting that long. It wouldn't happen, it really wouldn't. You would just want to play the game. I think the casual gamer plays for what, an hour, maybe more before returning to it later? He would be worn out by the time the cutscene comes to an end, maybe having played only 5 minutes of gameplay beforehand, and then he'd turn it off.

 

[Blackthorn]

Urgh, so arrogant...

 

[Absinthe]

**** art. Show me the gibs.

 

[smwScott]

So because I think that a 90 minute cutscene (putting that into perspective: an hour and a half, and the length of an average movie), in a game - that you play - in order to understand the story, in order to really enjoy the game, is sincerely missing the point of game design narrative, I'm not just arrogant, I'm borderline delusional? Is that what you are honestly saying? And are you honestly telling me that a 90 minute cutscene being necessary to understand the story is truly good game design? That Kojima isn't clever enough to convey his narrative any other way, say, in the game world? Is that what you are telling Corporal Keyboard Basher?

Say it ain't so.

I mean, there is no 90 minute cutscene. I think you know, even Kojima wouldn't go to those lengths. I just don't see it. And I also don't see anyone sitting that long. It wouldn't happen, it really wouldn't. You would just want to play the game. I think the casual gamer plays for what, an hour, maybe more before returning to it later? He would be worn out by the time the cutscene comes to an end, maybe having played only 5 minutes of gameplay beforehand, and then he'd turn it off.

Exactly. No one has time to sit there and watch an hour and a half of cutscene that just happens to come along during the game. You have to be prepared for such a large time investment, and even then it's ridiculous. Not to mention it would probably be full of overly long monologues and preachy bullshit that contributed very little to the overall story. Sitting through 90 minutes of that drivel in one sitting would be intolerable.

Granted this is a moot point because it just isn't true, the game doesn't have cutscenes that long. In fact if MGS3 is any indication the game will probably have a fairly balanced mix of cut scenes and gameplay. Nevertheless ... seeing some people defend an extreme like this is remarkable and just shows the lengths that gamers will go to due to some sort of blind adoration of a particular product.

 

[Tagaziel]

You're missing the point, I'm not talking about raw sales. Hell if we're looking at raw sales, then Titanic is one of the greatest movies of all time (it certainly isn't). To emphasize my point:

Popularity =/= Quality

Catering to the masses is fine, but if you put any of those games against most of the imdb top 250 (some notable exceptions) and it's obvious how one medium is superior over the other in terms of quality. Despite how good HL2 is, putting it into direct competition with a series like Godfather or hell, even Star Wars, and there's really no competition.

Why do you compare two entirely different things as if they were similiar?

 

[Kyorisu]

I think we have different definitions of art.

Art is subjective guys, Of course you're going to have different definitions or opinions.

I think he may speaking about media as an artform, in which case no game is really very qualified.

Bah bullshit. Both mediums go through similar creative processes and usually try to evoke some sort of emotion from the audience. Games are more than qualified.

 

[VirusType2]

I think what whoever was trying to say was that "the movies in games aren't nearly as well done as a movie."

But how could they have been? only 20 years ago Metal Gear on the NES was "Uh oh, the truck have started to move." after you hid in a truck. "All your base are belong to us." is another example of 20 year old video game 'cinematics'

but today, it's definitely a different case, and the movies and cutscenes in games get better all the time.

Games have overtaken movies in gross profit in the past few years for the first time, and it's only a matter of time (if not already so) before the movies and cutscenes in games match that of the cinemas.


Also, games as an artform = Yes. It is by definition - art, and by interpretation - art. How can you say otherwise is bewildering, especially for a gamer to say it.

 

[Saturos]

But how could they have been? only 20 years ago Metal Gear on the NES was "Uh oh, the truck have started to move." after you hid in a truck. "All your base are belong to us." is another example of 20 year old video game 'cinematics'

The dialogue in most NES games was laughably horrid. Anyone that complains about Oblivion's poor dialogue or lack thereof obviously hasn't been playing games since that era.

FVM/CG acting in games as well as the voice over dialogue in-game has admittedly come a long way but still, the devs need to remember what medium they are developing for. If they want to make movies, they should go join a hollywood guild tbh. 90 minutes is ridiculously long for a game, even if the FMV/CG sequences are interactive.

 

[Bad^Hat]

ITT: off-topic debating and people ranting about something that isn't going to happen.

(Including me)