Military: Gamers less "inhibited"

[CptStern]

"Using videogames to train today's U.S. military recruits, who grew up with XBoxes and PlayStations, is necessary and natural, a report said Tuesday.

"There's been a huge change in the way we prepare for war, and the soldiers we're training now are the children of the digital age who grew up with Game Boys

With videogame shooting experience before and after entering the military, today's recruits "probably feel less inhibited, down in their primal level, pointing their weapons at somebody,

That "provides a better foundation for us to work with"

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060214-094722-7410r

pretty disturbing that they're using our love of games to their advantage ...hmmm I wonder why Jack Thompson hasnt jumped on the "the military is training children with murder simulators" bandwagon

 

[kirovman]

Can't the Bush administration get their priorities right? Jack Thompson needs invading, liberating and democracy installed.



Jack Thompson vs. the military.


Interesting.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Of course, Thompson will very likely take this 'probably' scenario as a concrete scientific report.

 

[short recoil]

It's needed these days looking at how pathetic men have become.

 

[CptStern]

are you complaining about the lack of quality men?

hehe ...oh there's so many ways to interpret that short recoil

 

[clarky003]

The military are disgusting, from one mans viewpoint they are for glory and there to defend the country.. from another mans viewpoint they are an idustrialised buisness that is bent on expansion and profiteering at the expense of moral's or ethic's.

Which viewpoint you take up usually depends on the perecentage amount your brain has been jellified.

 

[CptStern]

or whether or not you're about to enlist

 

[Bob_Marley]

Is anyone really surprised? It's common knowledge that the US military used a version of doom to train troops and the British military had its own special mod for half-life made to train its troops.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

In that case, alcohol would be used as a way of recruiting D:

-Angry Lawyer

 

[DeusExMachina]

What doesn't use videogames to train people to do things. There's a mod for Half-Life to help with the fear of spiders with arachnophobics.

 

[Icarusintel]

I always like it when people rag on the military, because, some day, you just might need them, so keep hating, and hopefully they don;t save you.

Anyway, this has been going on for years. This is nowhere near new. They were using Doom back in the day for this kind of thing. It's a damn good idea, personally.

 

[Raeven0]

I always like it when people rag on the military, because, some day, you just might need them, so keep hating, and hopefully they don;t save you.

You're guilty of the logical fallacy of false dichotomy. You lose. ("Either you support the military entirely, or you're 100% opposed to it.")

 

[OvA]

Now is an ideal time to post timecube. Come to think of it, it's always a good time to post timecube.

 

[dys4iK]

Of course, Thompson will very likely take this 'probably' scenario as a concrete scientific report.

I was wondering who would catch the 'probably' first.

 

[Flyingdebris]

this is a fallacy.

A friend of mine went to westpoint, they had a class where they pretty much played lots of FPS and RTS games. However it was not anything as over the top as trying to desensitize the cadets to violence. It was to train the cadets in formulating strategies, teamwork, and tactics to outthink and outclass their opponents. Which is essential in a combat environment.

The teacher of that class also happened to be some sort of CS champion who would pwn his students on a regular basis. In one case he used a shotgun with no reloads. And killed all 6 of his opponents. In another case using only a pistol he managed to kill almost an entire team that had all their weapons pointed down the only entrance to an alley. The very last person at the back of the alley managed to kill him and had only the barest bit of life left. That was to my understanding the only time he died in CS while teaching that class of students.

 

[VictimOfScience]

Uh, this isn't a real surprise given America's Army and every other virtual training program they might endure.

The extremely political (and kick-ass) punk band from Canada, Propagandhi, has a song about it. Here's the lyrics, both intelligent and thought-provoking:

Die Jugend Marschiert

Die Jugend marschiert mit frohem Gesang
bei Sonnenschein und Regen;
die Jugend marschiert mit sieghaftem Drang
dem großen Ziel entgegen.
Wir stürmen die Welt, geh'n fest unser'n Schritt
wer jung ist der fügt sich freilich mit,
die Jugend marschiert, kein Pfad ist zu steil,
dem Siege entgegen zu eil'n.
Sieg Heil!

"Welcome to the offices of Economic and Manpower Analyses here at our historic and sprawling West Point Academy campus! My name is Mindy! It is my distinct pleasure to introduce you to a loving father of three (and a champion of the sanctioned use of armed force in pursuit of policy objectives). Ladies and gentlemen, put your hands together for the project director of our newest recruitment strategy; our mission to staff future combat systems through current technologies. Without any further ado, I give to you Colonel Casey Wardynski!"

"Thank you! Let me begin with some sentimental appeals to our national myths; assorted clichés coined by the state; the ideological shorthand meant to sweep your private doubts [away] of this virtual training course. This portal; this Trojan Horse that you living idiots paid for and actually rolled into your own kids’ rooms."

"Oops, did I just say that out loud? Oh, well, it’s not like it’s something new. It’s just the logical extension of the decades of bilge water that you’ve let us pump into your homes. The pink noise that hums away in the background while you run the gauntlet we force on you everyday. The billowing candy floss that helps to soften the blow. Deep down you’ve always known that your children already belong to us, so why don’t you cut the outraged parent routine, shut your mouth and get back in your seat. Your children already belong to us. What are you? You will pass on. And they won’t know a ****ing thing but this 'community,' this real life Ender’s Game. Forget what you think you know."

EDIT: What a nice way to celebrate my 1,000th post!

 

[willyd]

im gonna throw this one out there, you can take it or leave it:
if you dont love games you obviously dont love america.

 

[CptStern]

this is a fallacy.

A friend of mine went to westpoint, they had a class where they pretty much played lots of FPS and RTS games. However it was not anything as over the top as trying to desensitize the cadets to violence. It was to train the cadets in formulating strategies, teamwork, and tactics to outthink and outclass their opponents. Which is essential in a combat environment.

The teacher of that class also happened to be some sort of CS champion who would pwn his students on a regular basis. In one case he used a shotgun with no reloads. And killed all 6 of his opponents. In another case using only a pistol he managed to kill almost an entire team that had all their weapons pointed down the only entrance to an alley. The very last person at the back of the alley managed to kill him and had only the barest bit of life left. That was to my understanding the only time he died in CS while teaching that class of students.

I always like it when people rag on the military, because, some day, you just might need them, so keep hating, and hopefully they don;t save you.

Anyway, this has been going on for years. This is nowhere near new. They were using Doom back in the day for this kind of thing. It's a damn good idea, personally.

Is anyone really surprised? It's common knowledge that the US military used a version of doom to train troops and the British military had its own special mod for half-life made to train its troops

I think you guys are missing the point here ..the military guy isnt talking about training while in the military ..he's saying that they use video games to recruit because gamers have less qualms of shooting someone than a lay person and are ideal candiadates ..in other words ..they dont want people that will question the "why"s but rather they want people who will shoot without question. He's supporting the idea the video games are murder simulators

 

[Fliko]

I always find it funny.
Just because we don't respond the same as other humans, if, well, if we don't respond the same. I doubt we would respond different about pointing a gun at someone, but anyways.
Just because we are different, young people call gamer's Nerds. Older people say Gamers are the next-gen's killers, and fear us. It is like we are a new species.

 

[DeusExMachina]

I can guarentee you 80% of gamers couldn't (and probably wouldn't) kill someone if their life depended on it.

 

[Cooper]

How exactly does this hurt Jack Thompson? Isn't this what he is saying? That violent video games = more violence? If anything I would say now he actually has some credible information for once. If he is smart enough to use it.

 

[CptStern]

I can guarentee you 80% of gamers couldn't (and probably wouldn't) kill someone if their life depended on it.

tell that to drill sgt hartman

 

[DeusExMachina]

Full Metal Jacket .

 

[VictimOfScience]

He's supporting the idea the video games are murder simulators

Exactly. What else do you think they are using them for? Of course they are murder simulators that desensitize the player. The more virtual limbs you blow off or hack off or shoot off with blood and bits flying everywhere, the less it shocks you, no matter who you are or what your values are. Its vile what they are doing, but it makes sense.

 

[gick]

Uh, this isn't a real surprise given America's Army and every other virtual training program they might endure.

The extremely political (and kick-ass) punk band from Canada, Propagandhi, has a song about it. Here's the lyrics, both intelligent and thought-provoking:

I was waiting for you to come out with that.

Best. Song. Ever.

 

[VictimOfScience]

I was waiting for you to come out with that.

Best. Song. Ever.

LOL! I am so pleased that I could whip it out! It was only a matter of time in the Politics forum!

Propagandhi ftw!

 

[CptStern]

Exactly. What else do you think they are using them for? Of course they are murder simulators that desensitize the player. The more virtual limbs you blow off or hack off or shoot off with blood and bits flying everywhere, the less it shocks you, no matter who you are or what your values are. Its vile what they are doing, but it makes sense.

yes but I can virtually decapitate video game characters till I'm blue in the face but that wont change the fact that I couldnt/wouldnt do it in real life

it's like saying that people who like watching racing on tv would make better drivers than people who dont.

 

[Solaris]

yes but I can virtually decapitate video game characters till I'm blue in the face but that wont change the fact that I couldnt/wouldnt do it in real life

it's like saying that people who like watching racing on tv would make better drivers than people who dont.

I'm not to sure, I wouldn't shoot someone - without reason anyway.
But the more you rehearse something, the easier it becomes to do. And the better the rehearsal, the easier it becomes.

I wouldn't be surprised if people who play violent video games (especially from a younger age) find it easier to shoot people.

 

[CptStern]

I'm not to sure, I wouldn't shoot someone - without reason anyway.
But the more you rehearse something, the easier it becomes to do. And the better the rehearsal, the easier it becomes.

I wouldn't be surprised if people who play violent video games (especially from a younger age) find it easier to shoot people.

yes but that's like saying you know how to sing from watching American idol ..you can practice all you want want but it's not the same thing as singing in front of an audience. The point they're trying to get across is that gamers are lacking a moral centre and as result would make better soldiers than say a university student who may question why he's about to shoot someone

I think it's pretty sad that they can compare virtual killing with the real thing

 

[Solaris]

yes but that's like saying you know how to sing from watching American idol ..you can practice all you want want but it's not the same thing as singing in front of an audience. The point they're trying to get across is that gamers are lacking a moral centre and as result would make better soldiers than say a university student who may question why he's about to shoot someone

I think it's pretty sad that they can compare virtual killing with the real thing

No, Singing is something you can't really learn to do. Anyone can fire a gun, it just takes the moral willingness to do it. If you rehearse enough with enough goryness and desenatise yourself to doing it, when your CO tells you to shoot that women, I think you'd be more likely to do if you'd already done so in games.

They would have to be specifically designed games though, and be very gory, I don't think such games exist atm.

 

[CptStern]

No, Singing is something you can't really learn to do. Anyone can fire a gun, it just takes the moral willingness to do it. If you rehearse enough with enough goryness and desenatise yourself to doing it, when your CO tells you to shoot that women, I think you'd be more likely to do if you'd already done so in games.

They would have to be specifically designed games though, and be very gory, I don't think such games exist atm.

I could be wrong but I remember reading that military simulators used for training are devoid of blood or gore because the goal isnt to desensitise


also I agree that anyone can fire a gun ..but not everyone can fire a gun at a live target

 

[Solaris]

-I could be wrong but I remember reading that military simulators used for training are devoid of blood or gore because the goal isnt to desensitise.

If it was, they could do it very effectively.

 

[CptStern]

wouldnt it be easier to watch documentaries? I mean game graphics are nice and look somewhat realistic but I've never been disturbed by something I've seen in a video game ..we just arent there yet

I remember watching a documentary soon after the invasion of iraq ..it featured protestors protesting a military parade in a major US city (might have been ny) ..I remember one of the soldiers turning to the crowd and scremaing "you ****ing traitors we're going to iraq to get those responsible for 9/11" ....I think the military has other ways of desensitising soldiers

 

[K e r b e r o s]

So, let me get this straight. If I join the military, they'll let me play Halo 2, Half-Life 2, and anything else on my own leisure?

Jesus! I can't even do that at home!

 

[DeusExMachina]

wouldnt it be easier to watch documentaries? I mean game graphics are nice and look somewhat realistic but I've never been disturbed by something I've seen in a video game ..we just arent there yet

I remember watching a documentary soon after the invasion of iraq ..it featured protestors protesting a military parade in a major US city (might have been ny) ..I remember one of the soldiers turning to the crowd and scremaing "you ****ing traitors we're going to iraq to get those responsible for 9/11" ....I think the military has other ways of desensitising soldiers

The soldier probably held those beliefs before he joined the military. I know quite a few left wing atheists in the military who don't agree with the war and haven't changed.

 

[Solaris]

The soldier probably held those beliefs before he joined the military. I know quite a few left wing atheists in the military who don't agree with the war and haven't changed.

Begs the question why did they sell their morals.

 

[CptStern]

The soldier probably held those beliefs before he joined the military. I know quite a few left wing atheists in the military who don't agree with the war and haven't changed.

? ..atheists? I didnt mention religion. But imho they're even worse than the people who believed saddam was behind 9/11 because at least they thought they had a valid reason ..those that were against the war and still fought for their country did themselves and their country a disservice

I think my point was that a majority of soldiers being shipped to iraq at the time believed saddam was behind 9/11 ..surely you'd think the powers that be would have straightened them out ...but it's not in their best interests to do so. In fact the majority of americans believed saddam had something to do with 9/11

 

[DeusExMachina]

They were in the military before all this nonsense. And once you enlist, you can't just quit.

 

[CptStern]

sure you can ...many did during vietnam because they disagreed with the war ..but I see your point ..personally I dont think I could live with that decision knowing full well it was based on lies and that thousands died as a result

 

[DeusExMachina]

People will believe a convincing lie.