mindtwisters

[hunter-killer25]

ok heres teh game (most times it is) i'm gonna post a well thought out theory (always one that i've thought of myself) and you people try to prove me wrong, or you could just enjoy. ok.

There is no way to change the future except by knowing HOW something will happen from a outside demension (or whatever). why? say something (who knew it would happen) told you you would die in november. Since you are not told how you die then there is no way to avoid it because whatever told you that was supposed to tell you that, it was already your future. it won't matter if you run away, fly to the other side of the world, move to another town, or do absolutly nothing in november, you will die because thats what the future predicted you would do, thus you would die somehow when you were doing it. although if he (it) tells you you will die from choking on an apple, just avoid apples. (those were examples, you get the point)

try to prove this wrong. (confusing? not really)

yea yea, i'm just a lil bored waiting for the nextgen games to come out.

 

[RadiuS]

have you seen minority report? if you're bored watch that movie, looks to suit your mood.

 

[qckbeam]

The only way to change the future is through the choices one makes in the present. Therefore to alter the outcome of a situation to ones liking one must be removed from time, and able to see the consequences of all possible choices that could be made in that situation.

 

[king John I]

if say someones going to shoot you deos that stop it happening? if i say your mum is going to shoot you deos that stop it happening? if i say your mum will shoot you after a night out on monday 13th december at 11 o clock deos that stop it happening?

the future is the future for a reason, its the future.

p.s. these questions are pretty pointless because how can you see something that hasn't happend yet? we can see into the past everytome we see anything, example the stars (although it applies for everything).

 

[NSPIRE]

I'll try and prove it wrong later, when I'm at home... I'm at school right now and my fuggin' head hurts enough as it is from Algebra II.

 

[king John I]

Yay! Algebra! Whahoo! I love you Algebra!

 

[hunter-killer25]

Originally posted by qckbeam
The only way to change the future is through the choices one makes in the present. Therefore to alter the outcome of a situation to ones liking one must be removed from time, and able to see the consequences of all possible choices that could be made in that situation.

the choices one makes in present are useless, the future is the future, the choices have already been made, the only way to change the furture would be to know how and when to change thew future. Next.

 

[hunter-killer25]

Originally posted by king John I
if say someones going to shoot you deos that stop it happening? if i say your mum is going to shoot you deos that stop it happening? if i say your mum will shoot you after a night out on monday 13th december at 11 o clock deos that stop it happening?

the future is the future for a reason, its the future.

p.s. these questions are pretty pointless because how can you see something that hasn't happend yet? we can see into the past everytome we see anything, example the stars (although it applies for everything).

the point is something out of wrold (yea i know but this is speaking for just saying it happned) thats a specific question and could use multiple courses of action. shoot her before she shoots you or get as far away from her as possible and hire bodyguards etc the possibilitys are endless therefore the information given was how something would happen, futher proving my theory. Next

 

[king John I]

there is no such thing as the future, the future is what you make it.


everyone raise your right arm now, wahoo i changed the future!

 

[qckbeam]

the choices one makes in present are useless, the future is the future, the choices have already been made, the only way to change the furture would be to know how and when to change thew future. Next.

You didn't understand me. The choices we make in the present are what determine the future, so they are very relavent. The only way to change the future, as I said, would be to remove yourself from time (seeing the past, present and future as one) and examine all the choices you could possibly make. Then reinsert yourself into the present and make whatever choice you had decided on, therefore carving out the future the way you want it.

 

[Dedalus]

let's assume that the person telling you that you're going to die is telling the truth. they only say 'you're going to die before the year is out'. so potentially you have until 23:59:59 31st december 2003 to live. at any point from now until then your death will come. so how can you avoid it?

at that very point in time that you're told you're going to die, you've already made the choice that will lead up to your death, so choices in the present have no affect on the outcome. you will die no matter what. the only way to avoid it is to change the choices in the past, which is impossible unless we delve into the world of science fiction. so the only way to avoid something like this is to have foreknowledge that someone was going to tell you that you are going to die. so you could make your decision accordingly. or just be careful who you make enemies with

 

[hunter-killer25]

ded, it wouldn't matter, if something is bound to happen in the future, it will happen, period. anyway, i guess you could be right about taking yourself out of time, but then again, if an object with mass can reach lightspeed, not only will it's mass become infinite (THEORY THEORY) but it will also travel into the past (or is it the future.) therefore making my theory possible.

 

[dfc05]

Originally posted by RadiuS
have you seen minority report? if you're bored watch that movie, looks to suit your mood.

going a little bit away from the topic:
or read oedipus rex... j/k unless you're really bored
what annoys me about minority report and oedipus rex is that the only reason the character fulfills the prediction for his future is because he heard the prediction therefore if he hadn't known about his prediction then the prediction wouldn't have come true. so the prediction of the future is in fact what determined the future instead of... the future determining the future.
like in minority report if he hadn't learned the future he would never have gotten into the situation that he needed to be in in order to fulfill the prediction.
same thing for oedipus rex; if nobody told him his destiny he would've stayed where he was and wouldn't have ended up where he could fulfill it.

 

[poseyjmac]

if the person didn't tell you were going to die in november,then you would have, but since he told you. ODDS are you aren't going to die, because you are going to be extra careful.

 

[SLH]

Originally posted by poseyjmac
if the person didn't tell you were going to die in november,then you would have, but since he told you. ODDS are you aren't going to die, because you are going to be extra careful.

Perhaps sometime in the past he saw that he was going to tell you about your death in November, causing something to happen; killing you.



Couldn't help thinking about that Red Dwarf series 8, where there is a machine that can tell the future, someone askes it when they die and this is it's response (or something like it):

"You are going to die in approximatly 10 seconds from a heart-attack caused by you hearing the news that you are going do die from a heart-attack."

 

[The DemonWithin]

Originally posted by hunter-killer25
although if he (it) tells you you will die from choking on an apple, just avoid apples. (those were examples, you get the point)

try to prove this wrong. (confusing? not really)

yea yea, i'm just a lil bored waiting for the nextgen games to come out.

what if an apple randomly falls from someones window, gets cut up on a random ledge, then a piece goes into your mouth and you choke?

 

[Dedalus]

not everyone needs their apples cut into bitesize pieces for them to eat.

 

[The Terminator]

As soon as the guy came back in time or whatever and told you that you were going to die he set off a chain of events that would lead you to do whatever it is that you die from. But what if he had never come?

And if what I said frist was true, then why did he tell you if coming and telling you started the end of you, becuase before he told you it hasnt happened....?

This stuff is mind boggling, way too much thought.

 

[dfc05]

Originally posted by The Terminator
As soon as the guy came back in time or whatever and told you that you were going to die he set off a chain of events that would lead you to do whatever it is that you die from. But what if he had never come?

And if what I said frist was true, then why did he tell you if coming and telling you started the end of you, becuase before he told you it hasnt happened....?

This stuff is mind boggling, way too much thought.

yeah, that's kinda what i was thinking. if the guy tells you you're gonna die but not how you'll die, then if you changed your normal habits to try to avoid death but then actually did end up dying, then you could always blame the prediction of your death for causing you to end up in a situation where you would die. like i was saying about minority report, it was kinda annoying how they gave the prediction of what would happen, but it only happened since they gave the prediction of it in the first place.

 

[hunter-killer25]

exatcly, unless you know how and when to change he future, natuarlly you'll do something out of the ordinary, and it will get you killed, or you could do nothing, and it will get you killed or the possibilitys are infinite, unless you know what to avoid or how you will die. and yea minority report was a great movie.

 

[king John I]

if you could see the future then you would blow up.

ok, say you got tomorrows paper and in it it sayed that a factory blew up killing loads of women and men. You went and evacuated the factorys so noone died. so the newspaper wouldbe false, so it wouldnt be tomorrows newspaper, so the factory wouldn't of blown up, so how could you of rescued those people?

 

[Wraithen]

You get told that you're going to die in november after being shot by your mother. It's February. You decide to stop this from happening by shooting your mother first. She's shocked but can react in time to defend herself, and in the struggle the gun goes off and you're injured. You lose a lot of blood and fall into a coma for several months until you die... in November.

 

[The Terminator]

That was on back to the future. Good steal though.

 

[Wraithen]

It was? I have to watch those films again some time. Or go back in time and change my post. But then I'd have to go home, design a time machine, build it, charge it, go back in time... it's too much work so I'll watch the films instead.

I have a feeling I stole that one too... damn my lack of imagination

 

[Element Alpha]

2 points:

1)If you go back in time and change the thing that made you take the trip, you'll turn out not to take the trip in the past, because the reason for you to take that trip was never there. So you either A: cause a time-space paradox and cause the whole universe to collapse or B: create a parallel universe, where you are stuck in the past, while a second version of yourself never had a problem wich required to travel back in time and lives happily ever after, in a parallel universe in wich you'll never meet him.

2)It is arguable wether choice is a real issue in determing the future. Let me elaborate a little: let's say you put a cat in a room, and let a mouse loose near it. We - as "superior beings" - know that the cat will jump for the mouse. But for the cat, it's a decision he makes at that particular moment. We know almost 100% sure that "a cat that sees a mouse will jump at it", but the cat doesn't realise he's a victim of his own "nature". So we can "predict" that the cat will make the jump, while for the cat, it feels like a choice. Of course, you can apply this to human nature too.
So the question is: Is your choice dictated by your nature? If so, you're actions are predictable.

 

[Dedalus]

so in other words if i expressed your life/personality in a formula, i could eventually work out what you'd do and say and i could accurately predict when you'd die. with this resultant calculation i'd present it to you. but, the formula would also have taken into account your reactions to this information.

getting a little confusing here. anyone know what i'm on about.

 

[Element Alpha]

so in other words if i expressed your life/personality in a formula, i could eventually work out what you'd do and say and i could accurately predict when you'd die.

-->Precisly what this theory says.

But you would also have to know ALL the parameters surrounding this person.

The bit about the cat, I read it in my 1st year's psychological antropology manual. A read like that manual is something I recommend to all of you. It talks about the study of human/animal behavior.
When you read about things like these (I'm not talking about cheap books, I mean real studies that have been tested on a lot of subjects with valid test environments), you understand what happens around you a lot better, you are calmer, and more "aware". You can spot little details and draw information out of them.

It's a fascinating world, really.

 

[Dedalus]

i can do that just from having witnessed mankind droop into the commercial age and experiencing human stupidity first hand. i've been scarred for life, as such i'm a bitter old fart and i'm only 20. it's like learning Java or something: you learn everything there is to know on your own, but you still need a book to place everything in logical and sequential order and give everything you've learned a name and meaning.

writing a formula to govern someone's actions would have to be extremely large and complex. not only for the person's characteristics but for the variable like you mention. variables would have to be every single thing that person could feasibly come into contact with. imagine that for a second. that would mean every single thing in the room you're in right now. that would also mean every single thing in the room next to you, and the room after that, and the blades of grass outside, and the pieces of dog shit lying on the pavement outside, EVERYTHING. so we'd have to go about it like scientists and theorists do, and find formulae that govern other things first. then use those breakdowns to combine them together to make a unified formula to govern everything a person could touch. then combine that with the personality aspects of the formula and hey presto we've got a rudimentary version of your brain.

my brain has started dribbling out of my nose i think i should stop.

 

[MrD]

Originally posted by The Terminator
That was on back to the future. Good steal though.

Back to the future is cool, I have those on DVD

How do we know that there is even a future? Maybe everything that has happened, and everything that will happen, have all occurred in a single instant, and it is just our view of the world that makes everthing seem like it happens in a sequence?!

Oops, there goes my brain aswell.

 

[JonTheCanuck]

i disagree. If someone told u that u would die, u would now be aware and make alternate choices. u would try to avoid doing something u figured might be a bad idea. Because they told u, (using yur example of flying across the world), u would be in a different location with different situations and no longer in the situation where u were killed. The sooner u make an alternate decision, the bigger a difference it will make. Its like a chain reaction. U make 1 decision differently because of yur new knowledge of the future, and the next decision u make might be something that wasn't even a possibility if u had taken your original course. Its a hard concept to understand and who's to say i'm right or your right. I dont think there'll ever be a way to tell.

 

[king John I]

this thread messes with my head, you cant see or hear or whatever the fiture so thats it! period! final! poin! word!

 

[Dedalus]

my prediction is that king john will make hydra before me. that's the future. i just predicted it. it came to me in a vision. you will spam beyond belief and reach hydra very soon, i can't say the exact date as it's still unclear to me.

why do you say we can't see into the future? it's quite feasible someday that we could be able to accuractley predict what will happen in the future.

 

[MrD]

Originally posted by JonTheCanuck
i disagree. If someone told u that u would die, u would now be aware and make alternate choices. u would try to avoid doing something u figured might be a bad idea. Because they told u, (using yur example of flying across the world), u would be in a different location with different situations and no longer in the situation where u were killed. The sooner u make an alternate decision, the bigger a difference it will make. Its like a chain reaction. U make 1 decision differently because of yur new knowledge of the future, and the next decision u make might be something that wasn't even a possibility if u had taken your original course. Its a hard concept to understand and who's to say i'm right or your right. I dont think there'll ever be a way to tell.

Um, but if you saw the actual real future, and assuming there is only one, then you cannot make an alternate choice since to do so would mean you hadn't actually seen the future.

A PARADOX!!!!

 

[king John I]

my prediction is that king john will make hydra before me. that's the future. i just predicted it. it came to me in a vision. you will spam beyond belief and reach hydra very soon, i can't say the exact date as it's still unclear to me.

hahaha

you damn right par'ner.

hehe i'm already a prowler and your still an ant lion *blows rasberry*

 

[JonTheCanuck]

Originally posted by MrD
Um, but if you saw the actual real future, and assuming there is only one, then you cannot make an alternate choice since to do so would mean you hadn't actually seen the future.

A PARADOX!!!!

lol oh really, but whose to say theres only one future? seeing the future and being aware of it would make it possible for u to change it, meaning that the future u saw is no longer real.

 

[The Terminator]

My theory on time/space is that there is infinite loops of time. This is the only way anyone could ever go back and forth thourgh time. There are infinite loops for everything and every possible decision that had ever/will be made. The number is uncountable, infinite like the universe. Its hard for me to explain but I know it make sense, youll just have to trust me.

 

[MrD]

Originally posted by The Terminator
My theory on time/space is that there is infinite loops of time. This is the only way anyone could ever go back and forth thourgh time. There are infinite loops for everything and every possible decision that had ever/will be made. The number is uncountable, infinite like the universe. Its hard for me to explain but I know it make sense, youll just have to trust me.

I understand what you mean, I have thought about it too

I think either :

a) there is only one possible time-line and that everything is already worked out (ie. you can't go back in time and kill yourself because you would then not exist, but you could go back in time and kill your neighbour if your neighbour mysteriously vanished when you were a kid type of thing)

b) there are infinite number of timelines as The Terminator says. Every possible decision can exist (ie. I can go back and kill myself and thus branch off onto another timeline where I die in my youth, but I still exist because the other possible future which I actually came from also exists)

 

[The Terminator]

exactly.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Oooh an interesting topic, not seen one of these in a while.

 

[Wraithen]

An equation for a person would only work on probabilities,for example, Mr X doesn't like Chocolate ice cream, so you could say with 99% accuracy that if you offered him some he would refuse. But when you do he accepts it because he likes you even less and doesn't think you should have so much ice cream.

(now someone's going to say that this all encompassing equation would have variables for his dislike of the person giving and whether he had a drink that morning. And it would say that when a butterfly flaps it's wings in france, a bird will siht on my head )