More Intelligent: HL1 Grunts or HL2 Combine?

Wilsonator

Wilsonator

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I actually find the grunts smarter because they use a wide range of tactics, flush you out of cover and communicate with each other.

The Combine just stand there and shoot, occasionally moving to a better position and very rarely, throw a grenade with can easily be gotten rid of with the Gravity Gun.

Your Opinions?
 
This is a silly question. It's not even a poll.

Combine.

Also, we've done this before. At least 3 times.
 
I sort of agree there, but i think the terrain and the complication of the maps in HL2 make the HL1 grunts seem to have better AI. Put the combine on a HL1 map, and they'll out shine the AI of the grunts.
 
I heard it should be much better on hard, but i only played it on medium so that id have something to look forward to for next time i played it. Did u play it on hard? But yeah on medium they didnt come anything close to the enemies in far cry, but I think abit better than hl1 (i just played that through again for the 10th time or so)
 
The HL2 AI certainly isn't as impressive as the HL1 AI, but it does it's job. Nothing fancy IMO.
 
HL2 AI. If you think HL1 AI: take your head out of your arse. Honestly. It defies all logic and common sense.

Wilsonator, I don't know what HL2 you played, but Combine certainly communicate with eachother, they give hand signals and will count down when they throw a grenade and will move up ("5..4..3..2..1 Flush") and there are 235 radio sounds they use. They will inform their teammates when they spotted, they do not magically know one of them saw you. They will take turns attacking you when you're hidden/camping, or flank you.
 
PvtRyan said:
HL2 AI. If you think HL1 AI: take your head out of your arse. Honestly. It defies all logic and common sense.

Wilsonator, I don't know what HL2 you played, but Combine certainly communicate with eachother, they give hand signals and will count down when they throw a grenade and will move up ("5..4..3..2..1 Flush") and there are 235 radio sounds they use. They will inform their teammates when they spotted, they do not magically know one of them saw you. They will take turns attacking you when you're hidden/camping, or flank you.
Click to expand...

The problem is that they don't do it very often; most of the time, I found them simply standing and shooting, or running at me and shooting, occasionally getting behind cover. Whether this is the fault of the level design or the AI itself, I wouldn't know, but I always found the marines offered more thrilling firefights, ducking around boxes and flanking me, running away when hurt. I personally can't remember the combine ever trying to out-flank me, or even running away (except at the crane bit, trying to dodge the boxes :) ).
 
i was dissapointed by the hl2 ai, id say that the hl1 ai is pretty much the same as the hl2 ai gameplay wise.
 
i would have to sgree that there are alot of shortcomings with the hl2 combine ai
having played hl2 i was impressed but not as much as i would have liked
then played hl source and was amazed at the simplicity and effectiveness of their ai
ducking running nading booting and working as a team
the best level for the combine ai is outside the train station when alyx is trying to open the gate
the combine did come from both sides at me simply because of the way they entered the level
they stood in the open where i could actually kill them from distance with the hugely inaccurate combine pulse rifle
they never used grenades and i just shotgunned them because they wlked up to a 1m away to shoot me
no team work to speak of at all

even earlier in the same level in a room full of furniture and cover they stood and opened fire

the combine rarely beat me on hard whereas the marines and the alien grunts in hl wiped the floor with me time and time again
 
I've just started replaying HL2 on Hard (after completing it in Medium). I've just got to Route Canal, and I've already noticed that the Metrocops are more intelligent than they were first time round. I'm looking forward to my first encounters with Combine military to see how different they are.
 
I guess its hard to compare. Half Lifes AI was more revolutionary and the basic level layouts helped the AI, whilst Half Life 2s AI, whilst more than adequate, was not revolutionary (imo), and the complex maps and physics objects didnt really help. There was a tutorial on Interlopers.net that showed how to make Combine AI, and the example map used looks like itd show off the AI, but I cant be bothered making one like it.
 
combine are...there was a release where you are in an apartment block and the combines go room to room to find you, kicking in doors and everything...

I mean, the grunts couldnt even shoot while moving.Just Valve did very well to cover this up...
 
Buveed said:
I sort of agree there, but i think the terrain and the complication of the maps in HL2 make the HL1 grunts seem to have better AI. Put the combine on a HL1 map, and they'll out shine the AI of the grunts.
Click to expand...
That's the conclusion I came to - The maps in HL were much more regular (Right angled walls, squarely positioned obsticles etc) so maybe the A.I. appeared smarter in this environment?

Someone mentioned the A.I. is better on Hard? I don't think this is the case at all. Hard is harder (Not much though) because your take more damage, The enenmies take less & Man hacks start popping up in places they didn't before. That's the only difference I noticed.
 
I was far more impressed by the combine AI than marine ai. All teh marines did was throw grenades to certain places and turn his back on you and run. Not much of a intelligent supersoldier when you are running after him, shooting him with a shotgun and he just doesnt care at all.

Combine instead circled around buildings and throw grenades to smoke me out of my positions and so on. Only thing I was dissappointed was that if you would block a door with a table or something, they just open the door like nothing was there. It would´ve been cool if they have tried kicking the door inside or shot through the windows, like in that Traptown vid.
 
Cukel said:
I was far more impressed by the combine AI than marine ai. All teh marines did was throw grenades to certain places and turn his back on you and run. Not much of a intelligent supersoldier when you are running after him, shooting him with a shotgun and he just doesnt care at all.
Click to expand...
I guess A.I. is quite fickle at the end of the day because it's a lot to do with how it is perceived by the player. For one thing if the A.I. was really clever many players might consider the game to difficult as it would be hard to beat & seem unfair. It's more important that it ne believable which is probably more difficult in HL2's environments.

Combine instead circled around buildings and throw grenades to smoke me out of my positions and so on. Only thing I was dissappointed was that if you would block a door with a table or something, they just open the door like nothing was there. It would´ve been cool if they have tried kicking the door inside or shot through the windows, like in that Traptown vid.
Click to expand...
Apparently those door opening parts are scipted even in the final game (Traptown was obviously all scripted). Someone posted saying they had entered a building, Closed the door & then killed al lthe Combine as they ran past the window. Apparently the door still flew open as if it had been kicked open but there was no Combine there! Not sure of this is true. Not tried it myself.
 
Wilsonator said:
and very rarely, throw a grenade with can easily be gotten rid of with the Gravity Gun.
Click to expand...
This is a good example of why people think HL2's AI sucks. The player has more options in this game - how can your ability to throw grenades back have anything to do with the quality of the AI? HL2's AI is excellent - it's the gameplay that masks this fact. I mean, I could watch 5 soldiers do wonderful flanking movements, or I could run out and offload both barrels into their chests and stop them from showing off.

The HL1 grunts were a little too good at blowing themselves up with Grenades, too confused about the use of mounted guns and suffering from a complete inability to shoot back at you if you're above or below them (At Nova Prospekt, Soldiers shoot through floors). Combine soldiers were far more intelligent. Far easier to kill though.
 
Ever notice how in HL1, the Grunts couldn't move and shoot? The Combine can. That's why they won the 7hr war.

-Angry Lawyer
 
dogboy73 said:
Apparently those door opening parts are scipted even in the final game (Traptown was obviously all scripted). Someone posted saying they had entered a building, Closed the door & then killed al lthe Combine as they ran past the window. Apparently the door still flew open as if it had been kicked open but there was no Combine there! Not sure of this is true. Not tried it myself.
Click to expand...

This isn't really relevant to thread much, as I'm sure it's scripted, but it really amazed me. In Ravenholm, when you first see the fastzombies, right after Grigori tosses you the shotgun, and you jump in that water tub thing, and climb the ladder, you have to go in a building, and take an elevator down to the ground (well, you are supposed to). When you go into the room usually the fastzombies will run right in after you, but i decided to run like hell, and shut the door before they came, then i grav gunned the box in front of the door, and waited a second. All of a second, all 5 of the zombies CRASHED through the glass ceiling and started gnawing at me. Now this was my second play through, they will in fact just come through the door if you leave it open, but i thought it was awesome that they drop through the glass.
 
i turned on godmode to give the combine time to organise and flank my ass or use tactics or even just coordinate as a team
nothing happened - they charged individually like something out of quake 1 or stood still


The pros and cons


+combine will remain suppressed where possible under fire
+understand complex and fluid level design
+communicate with one another
+radio chatter is cool
+hand signals
+look cool, coolest looking humanoid enemies in a game to date
+passable combat ai does the job but nothing else
+sniper laser beam
+better and more complex than hl1 ai

-less effective than hl1 ai
-do not use cover enough
-do not shoot from cover
-do not duck and move while shooting
-do not find better fields of fire
-rarely attempt to flank
-charge the player like in primitive shooters
-do not use numbers to their advantage
-rarely coordinate as a team ie one suppresses, one nades, one runs > never happens
-do not use grenades effectively
-stand still while taking hits
-run blindly to prescripted hidding places
-are not tough enough
-do not retreat
-never a real challenge in combat
-not aggressive enough, they charge u bu tthen stop 1 m away to fire at u, also do not try to overwhelm u with firepower...grenades and 20mm ammo is rarely rarely used in open combat
-elites seemed identical to regulars just different uniform
-pulse rifle is crap, inaccurate , boring where was real firepower?
-do not react to the demise of a colleague except the last guy shouting outbreak
-no idle animations
-not badasses, do not instill pant wetting fear like they should
-fake immobile snipers
-do not coordinate with artillery, striders, gunships etc.
-poor damage and death animations
-get simple stuff like avoiding and dodging the players fire wrong

couldn't think of any others - other contributions welcome
 
The reason the AI seems worse, like someone said, is that the combine are much easier to shoot down than the marines were. It takes only a few crowbarrings, compared to like twenty, and a single magnum headshot instead of two.

So the combine seem dumber simply because they aren't super supermen like the grunts were. Make a mod where three combine have 1000 health, put them in a complicated map, and see how difficult it is to avoid them. A combine is more dangerous than a marine of equal health.

Also, I've found that the AI is very reactive to what you are doing. If you just stand still, and get a sniper's vantage of every possible entrance, the AI has no choice but to head pretty much straight at you. If you try to hide, or dodge, or any other tactical maneuver and get in close, you're much more likely to have a shotgun dude sneak up behind you, or flush you out.

Like if the combine are in a house, and you go through the front door, two will shoot you while one escapes through the back to ambush you.
But if you stand in a field and snipe the house, their only option is to run towards you to get in range.
 
i agree, the hl2 AI is better, at least they don't kill themselfs with the grenades every time they can (that's why they don't throw grenades very often, they're afraid to blow themself up :rolling: ) and plus they can fire while running :p , but i really don't like the fact that they almost never look for cover while in a firefight... but lets face it, that doesn't make them stupider just braver hehe :bounce:
 
sry for the double post

Apparently those door opening parts are scipted even in the final game (Traptown was obviously all scripted). Someone posted saying they had entered a building, Closed the door & then killed al lthe Combine as they ran past the window. Apparently the door still flew open as if it had been kicked open but there was no Combine there! Not sure of this is true. Not tried it myself.



This isn't really relevant to thread much, as I'm sure it's scripted, but it really amazed me. In Ravenholm, when you first see the fastzombies, right after Grigori tosses you the shotgun, and you jump in that water tub thing, and climb the ladder, you have to go in a building, and take an elevator down to the ground (well, you are supposed to). When you go into the room usually the fastzombies will run right in after you, but i decided to run like hell, and shut the door before they came, then i grav gunned the box in front of the door, and waited a second. All of a second, all 5 of the zombies CRASHED through the glass ceiling and started gnawing at me. Now this was my second play through, they will in fact just come through the door if you leave it open, but i thought it was awesome that they drop through the glass.
Click to expand...


Yeah that happened to me today in Ravenholm very unexpected and very cool

In more than a few levels i blocked doors and stairs etc and while yes the doors swung open the wrong way when the combine came a knocking defeating the purpose of blocking the door shut, the barricade prevented them from entering the building which i thought was a nice touch.
allowed me to fight them on my terms
although would have been cool if they had tried to get in windows or used grenades to clear the barricade
 
Kinda thought hl1 guys were harder, but I am more used to them(play hl2 on hard too).

I would guess there isn't a huge difference over all though. Probably a lot of similar code.
 
Angry Lawyer said:
Ever notice how in HL1, the Grunts couldn't move and shoot? The Combine can. That's why they won the 7hr war.

-Angry Lawyer
Click to expand...

LOL, the marines were in awe at there moving and shooting skills all seven hours.

It would be awsome if we could make a mod to compare hl1 and hl2 ai, see who wins.

And I find the combine ai much better, allie ai is lacking sometime though. It fun to go to the lighthouse battle and just watch the combine and alllies fight.
 
Like most people are saying, the HL2 AI is better but not more difficult to beat.

Some cool things I've noticed:
- Combine know how to use/unuse mounted guns, which HL1 grunts couldn't
- Not really AI, but if a combine (probably others too) is on a nonlevel surface his legs and feet will adjust so it looks right. One time I saw one with one leg up on a couch seat and it looked pretty cool.
- They will make an effort to avoid being run over by the buggy, but they're too slow so it never works.

Also, anyone who has played HL:Source, have you noticed how fast the grunts shoot in it compared to the original?
 
I say the marines, but i'd say the combine if their grenades blew up faster, and if there were places where their "intelligence" could be optimised. In half life, there were boxes the grunts could go around and they also set up bunkers. The combine didn't have to many bunkers and they weren't protected overhead. Also, the combine didn't have many good options for cover. I say grunts though.
 
Marines only had more variety, you would have two marines with grenades, another with a grenade launcher, and a fourth with a shotgun, that grenade launcher makes a ton of a difference, which is the only thing that the combine are missing, and I believe they would be a much bigger problem for rambo players if they cant just hide behind a couple barrels while they reload.

(And I mean impact explosive grenades, none of that time bomb crap.)
 
HL1 AI was terrible.

-I would rush a guy who was throwing a grenade, so instead of throwing it he would put it on the ground, turn around and stand still. (Gibs, anyone?)

- When they tried welding down a door (in Blue Shift) I would put 2 or so satchels on the ground, so when they welded through and rushed they all went boom. Tripmines worked too, they seemed to ignore the big blue laser.

- Maybe it was a bug from my non updated version but if a guy was facing away from you and you got his attention, he would SLOWLY turn the farthest way (way with more degrees) until he would fire at you. So if I attacked 4 guys from their left shoulder they would be dead by the time they turned to face me.
 
HunterSeeker said:
HL 1 grunts where harder, HL 2 combine are smarter.
Click to expand...

the grunts were hard because they had so much HP. you could empty a whole MP5 clip into them and they wouldnt die. Thats the only thing that pissed me off about them, it was sort of unrealistic. Combine, as you said, are smarter, but easier to kill because it's more realistic (head shots, nade damage, etc).
 
Combine are smarter. Grunts are tougher. The first couple of levels where crap, but AI Demonstrated in chapters 8-14 were amazing. Especially the bridge... i was getting so freaking wasted there.
Nova Prospekt really showed the bastards off though. They would flank the antlions, grenade them contineously, duck behind cover to reload, all that stuff. This came to naught when one single antlion came up to them and - *POW* - the soldiers died in one hit.
 
I would smarter but easier to kill would be an accurate description of the Combine AI.
 
They don't appear to do anything fancy, usually because they don't get the chance ;)
 
The HL1 grunts AI seems much more impressive AND effective, i dont think changing the maps to HL2 maps would make a difference.

i think the combine operate less effectively because i think they were designed to be dosile AI by valve, becasue the combine are dosile and so they gave this effect to them in the game.
good at stand shoot duck, in/out, but not lively like a grunt team. :hmph:
 
One of the best examples I've seen of HL2's enemies AI was this time I was playing sandtraps. Not having time to place the three "toasters" into the slots and open that gate, combine troops came through. Falling back to the ther side of the outpost, I watched as they spread out, running towards me from different directions, using terrain as cover. Because of this, I couldn't concentrate my fire on more than one, so I got shot back at from several directions. Wow...
 
In HL2 the AI doesn't have many chances to hide beyond boxes and such and all that, because think about the storyline...


The combine are dominating earth, so thus they have tons of resources and such, and thus they have no need really for fear... Also map design doesn't give the HL2 AI lots of chance to show itself off such as in the buggy they are just standing in the open firing down on you... Plus you usually kill them before you give them a chance to truly show off...

HL2 > HL1.... Maybe it doesn't show too much at times but it is indeed improved :)
 
In hiway 17, theres one house you can take preety good cover in, but if you do that the combine will just seige you. The Guy with the shotgun will charge in and normaly knock down your health, meanwhile the smg guys guard the perimeter while the ar guy snipes through the windows.
 
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