Murder in Iraq

[kmack]

sourcey

Pantano, 33, a former film executive from New York, has been charged with two counts of premeditated murder in the deaths of the men, whom his unit stopped during a cordon-and-search operation in Mahmudiyah. According to written charges, Pantano ordered another Marine and a sailor to remove the handcuffs from Tahab Ahmead Hanjil and Hamaady Kareem, then told other servicemen to look away and shot the two Iraqis in the back with an M-16 assault rifle.

Ok, it's war, shit happens, but it's this kind of thing that gives us a bad reputation. The man fired 40-50 rounds of ammunition (stopping once to reload) into the backs of two INNOCENT iraqis. I respect the Marines, they have a very dangerous duty, but killing innocent people is inexcusable, and to brag about it afterwards is downright foolish.

We are in this war not for the protection of the US, but for the liberation of the Iraqi people, i didn't realize liberation, freedom, and democracy consisted of being executed with 50 rounds shot into your back.

I'm sure some of you will want to defend them, feel free to do it here, but i really wanted to discuss what the punishment should be. Death would be best (what would happen in America if a black guy shot two white guys in the back 50 times?) but since it IS a warzone, it should probably be life in prisonment WITH the possibility of parole, though if it is determined to be premeditated (as per the charges) then no parole. he should not get away with this.

Premeditated murder is premeditated murder, warzone or not.

 

[CptStern]

he should get the death penalty if found guilty



which is what I would say if I was a conservative. :E

 

[kmack]

he should get the death penalty if found guilty



which is what I would say if I was a conservative. :E

haha, don't worry the republicans are jumping in to defend him.

I don't think this is excusable because its a warzone, they were previously searched, unarmed, shot in the back (50 times! he had to reload!), their deaths were bragged about, and most of all he is accused of PREMEDITATED murder. He needs life in prison, if anything as an example. the guy who killed two fellow soldiers just got the death penalty ( source ) . the iraqis were innocent, unarmed, and not even facing their murderer.

 

[CptStern]

if past court cases involving americans soldiers killing iraqis is any indication; they'll be getting off with a slap on the wrist

 

[kmack]

if past court cases involving americans soldiers killing iraqis is any indication; they'll be getting off with a slap on the wrist

this is premeditated, and 50 rounds into unarmed innocent iraqis is kinda hard to play off as self defense, we shall see.

 

[Bodacious]

See how biased and hateful you two are?

If(and when) he is found guilty he should get whateverthe jury recommends.

 

[kmack]

See how biased and hateful you two are?

If(and when) he is found guilty he should get whateverthe jury recommends.

sorry, when innocent people get shot in the back 50 times (and the only executionar has to reload half way through thte murders) i get a little irate especially when it is premeditated and the killer brags about it afterwards.

what do you think the jury will reccommend?

 

[jimbo118]

if past court cases involving americans soldiers killing iraqis is any indication; they'll be getting off with a slap on the wrist

i guess bodacious was joking in relation to your sig right? :O

did he really say that?

 

[Bodacious]

i guess bodacious was joking in relation to your sig right? :O

did he really say that?

I did really say it, but he took it the wrong way.

 

[Bodacious]

sorry, when innocent people get shot in the back 50 times (and the only executionar has to reload half way through thte murders) i get a little irate especially when it is premeditated and the killer brags about it afterwards.

what do you think the jury will reccommend?

What is worse is the guy who did it was an officer. That guy had 4 years of college and made it through officer candidate school.


I think he should get at least life, if not death. He is guilty of a lot more than premeditated murder, stuff like conduct unbecoming, disobeying orders, all kinds of crap.

 

[Korgoth]

Whats even worse than him being an officer, or even his conduct unbecoming, HE KILLED IN COLD BLOOD TWO INNOCENT MEN, HE ENDED TWO LIVES, HE DESTROYED TWO FAMILIES AND COUNTLESS FRIENDS...


(BTW bodacious, this post isn't meant to be smug towards you, i'm just pointing this out to eveyone, so don't get all defensive on me)

 

[Bodacious]

Whats even worse than him being an officer, or even his conduct unbecoming, HE KILLED IN COLD BLOOD TWO INNOCENT MEN, HE ENDED TWO LIVES, HE DESTROYED TWO FAMILIES AND COUNTLESS FRIENDS...


(BTW bodacious, this post isn't meant to be smug towards you, i'm just pointing this out to eveyone, so don't get all defensive on me)

Ok, thanks.

 

[Foxtrot]

Shit happens.

 

[kmack]

Shit happens.

get out of here, dont post again in this thread you flame baiting assclown. but i will humor you, shit happens, but when premeditated shit that kills 2 innocent men happens, what should the consequences be?

(waits for foxtrot to drag this off topic :dozey: )

 

[Foxtrot]

get out of here, dont post again in this thread you flame baiting assclown. but i will humor you, shit happens, but when premeditated shit that kills 2 innocent men happens, what should the consequences be?

(waits for foxtrot to drag this off topic :dozey: )

Lol, me dragging this off topic? You are the one who insulted me, which had nothing to do with this. Shit happens, it is always going to happens and it always has happened.

 

[kmack]

Shit happens, it is always going to happens and it always has happened.

this contributes absolutely nothing to the topic. you have now posted it twice. im trying to help you along but you ignore my please to say something useful, but i will try again:

shit happens, i agree, but premeditated murder of 2 innocent people whose country we are invading is some SERIOUS shit.

Do you have any opinon on his actions? do you have any opinion on what the consequences should be?

 

[Foxtrot]

this contributes absolutely nothing to the topic. you have now posted it twice. im trying to help you along but you ignore my please to say something useful, but i will try again:

shit happens, i agree, but premeditated murder of 2 innocent people whose country we are invading is some SERIOUS shit.

Do you have any opinon on his actions? do you have any opinion on what the consequences should be?

You are making too big of a deal about this, shit happens and it always will. He will be convicted if he is guilty (maybe even if he isn't) and there is nothing to worry about.

 

[kmack]

Shit happens.

Lol, me dragging this off topic? You are the one who insulted me, which had nothing to do with this. Shit happens, it is always going to happens and it always has happened.

You are making too big of a deal about this, shit happens and it always will. He will be convicted if he is guilty (maybe even if he isn't) and there is nothing to worry about.

3 posts and you have said nothing but the same thing. just stop repeating yourself.

 

[Foxtrot]

3 posts and you have said nothing but the same thing. just stop repeating yourself.

Do you want this thread to stay on topic or do you just want to bitch about me? You can bitch about me in PMs.

 

[GiaOmerta]

If I was present I would of probaly shot Pantano and disposed of his body.
(Many holes in the desert, problems fill those holes mentality.)

 

[CptStern]

I did really say it, but he took it the wrong way.

what other possible interpretation could there have been? ...on second thought dont post your response, pm me if you'd like .. for the sake of staying on topic

See how biased and hateful you two are?

point to where I make a hateful or biased statement


foxtrot: you would be saying that if it was terrorists beheading americans ...there really is no difference between the victems except the color of their skin

 

[Foxtrot]

what other possible interpretation could there have been? ...on second thought dont post your response, pm me if you'd like .. for the sake of staying on topic



point to where I make a hateful or biased statement


foxtrot: you would be saying that if it was terrorists beheading americans ...there really is no difference between the victems except the color of their skin

I didn't really care too much about the terrorist beheadings either, not that big of a deal and it should have been expected. Did you expect better from them?

 

[kmack]

I didn't really care too much about the terrorist beheadings either, not that big of a deal and it should have been expected. Did you expect better from them?

umm, those were terrorists beheading innocent civilians

this is a US soldier killing innocent civilians.

there is quite a large difference, i like to think our troops are a step above terrorists. good job making a really shitty analogy though.

 

[Foxtrot]

umm, those were terrorists beheading innocent civilians

this is a US soldier killing innocent civilians.

there is quite a large difference, i like to think our troops are a step above terrorists. good job making a really shitty analogy though.

You missed the difference, they are both "soldiers" in a way, but the terrorists all support the beheadings, our military doesn't and is punishing this person for doing it.

 

[kmack]

You missed the difference, they are both "soldiers" in a way, but the terrorists all support the beheadings, our military doesn't and is punishing this person for doing it.

that is not entirely true, the republicans are trying to get involved, and he hasnt been tried and sentenced yet.

 

[ComradeBadger]

The the man should be tried as any other murderer, or perhaps by a war crimes tribunal.

 

[Foxtrot]

that is not entirely true, the republicans are trying to get involved, and he hasnt been tried and sentenced yet.

It is arguable I suppose, the war could have put him under extreme stress etc.

 

[kmack]

The the man should be tried as any other murderer, or perhaps by a war crimes tribunal.

what you think about consequences (if guilty) if its premeditated i gotta say death, if not, maybe life in prison

 

[Foxtrot]

what you think about consequences (if guilty) if its premeditated i gotta say death, if not, maybe life in prison

Death, just like that last guy.

 

[GiaOmerta]

Hopefully death. This guy screwed up. Committed a war crime. You can't go around killing civilians. It's their country. If I was an Iraqi and I heard about this I'd be cutting heads off too.

 

[gh0st]

Innocent until proven guilty. If he's guilty, life or death.

 

[kmack]

Innocent until proven guilty. If he's guilty, life or death.

ya, and at this moment, i think the only thing up for dispute is if it was premeditated.

 

[baxter]

Soldier or not he should be tried for premeditated murder and punished accordingly.

 

[ComradeBadger]

what you think about consequences (if guilty) if its premeditated i gotta say death, if not, maybe life in prison

I disagree with the death penalty, so I'd say life if it was proven to be pre-meditated murder.

I dislike media involvement in criminal cases - it's too easy to alter judgements. However, based on the evidence so far - it seems he is guilty.

 

[CptStern]

anyone know if there will even be a jury? wont he be tried in a military court? ...he really should stand trial in the International War Crimes Tribunal but since the US refused to become a signatory member, there's no chance in hell ...probably cuz under the same rules they could charge Bush and other higher ups ...just like they did in the first gulf war

 

[Kebean PFC]

Death.

This is what soldiers are trained NOT TO DO. Shooting the enemy is one thing, but shooting innocents takes it to a whole new level. That said, did these men have any links to the Iraqi insurgency, or was he just a guy? I find it hard to believe that a US marine could kill an innocent man whithout some form of provocation. Weather that is true or not is up to the Court, but if they find him guilty, he should be shot in the back, just like the men he killed.

Originally posted by CptStern
anyone know if there will even be a jury? wont he be tried in a military court? ...he really should stand trial in the International War Crimes Tribunal but since the US refused to become a signatory member, there's no chance in hell ...probably cuz under the same rules they could charge Bush and other higher ups

Yes there is a jury. Yes he will probably be tried in Military court. No he shouldn't stand in the International War Crimes court becuase there is no "International" help here.

 

[CptStern]

Yes there is a jury. Yes he will probably be tried in Military court. No he shouldn't stand in the International War Crimes court becuase there is no "International" help here.

it doesnt matter ..the crimes covered under the IWCT includes those commited by troops on foreigners. Example: saddam who killed his own but he also killed iranians and turkish kurds ..one court tries all 3 cases

 

[gh0st]

I dont care what IWCT thinks. He should be punished under American law.

 

[Sparta]

Why dont you care what the IWCT think? What does it matter if he's tried under international law or american? They both work the same way

 

[gh0st]

Why dont you care what the IWCT think? What does it matter if he's tried under international law or american? They both work the same way

Probably. But not in principle. I dont want some frenchman or canuck judging American soldiers.