Mushroom cloud over N.Korea

[DEATH eVADER]

"In view of the danger we face in sharing the globe with an aggressor such as the United States," read Kim Jong on KCNA, "We felt we could no longer sit at the negotiating table while our enemies prepared for invasion on our soil. To prove our sincerity as well as our might, we launched this test of our nuclear arsenal. Let the world take note, and take heed."

Oh, Oh dear......

...Well you can meet up with me in my little cardboard nuclear fallout shelter in the middle of the suburbs

 

[Deadline]

Wasnt there some kind of world wide treaty to stop obove ground nuclear arms testing or something... cause he just broke it.

 

[Gunner]

Wasnt there some kind of world wide treaty to stop above ground nuclear arms testing or something... cause he just broke it.

Yes and it didn't stop France from testing their hardware either.

 

[Deadline]

France has hardware? Well at least we know they are too wussy to use em'

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

France has hardware? Well at least we know they are too wussy to use em'

LOL - You have to be a signator of a treaty before someone else can accuse you of breaking the treaty... The US & Soviet Union (Russia) signed... I don't know about France but I know NK didn't sign the treaty.

 

[Parrot of doom]

Please don't take lePobz view of the US armed forces as what everybody in the UK thinks. The British armed forces are considered very professional, and are very highly respected over here (a tradition that goes back many hundreds of years), just as US civilians respect their own armed forces.

Many people make the mistake of comparing our elite forces with the regular US marine. Its not a fair comparison.

 

[Parrot of doom]

France has hardware? Well at least we know they are too wussy to use em'

France isn't known as a country to give a **** about what its neighbours think.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

Please don't take lePobz view of the US armed forces as what everybody in the UK thinks. The British armed forces are considered very professional, and are very highly respected over here (a tradition that goes back many hundreds of years), just as US civilians respect their own armed forces.

Many people make the mistake of comparing our elite forces with the regular US marine. Its not a fair comparison.

I think the Brits are among the best in the world and I am a US soldier. Good to hear that not all of you think we're all blood thirsty reckless idiots with high tech weopons...

Civilians die in war. That's the ugly truth of it. Specially when you are fighting civilians & terrorists within their own communities. If the public doesn't like it they shouldn't have sent us there. Since they did they better support us.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

I think the regular American army needs a shape up, because it the moment its a career path, or just a job, not an efficient fighting force (Well, not as efficient as an army in that state should be. Compared to certain other armies, I suspect it is quite good) However, the special forces, Marines etc are more dedicated.

Anyway, heh....The koreans said they were blowing up a mountain eh. With an atom bomb perhaps?

 

[Gunner]

France has hardware? Well at least we know they are too wussy to use em'

Here's the small list of countries with nuclear weapons capability: Britain, China, France, India, Pakistan, Russia, United States and probably Israel if they would just admit it.

And it's not about "having the balls" to use them, nuclear weapons serve as a deterrent first.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

I think the regular American army needs a shape up, because it the moment its a career path, or just a job, not an efficient fighting force (Well, not as efficient as an army in that state should be. Compared to certain other armies, I suspect it is quite good) However, the special forces, Marines etc are more dedicated.

Anyway, heh....The koreans said they were blowing up a mountain eh. With an atom bomb perhaps?

Add Cavalry to the list and I'd agree with ya. :Wink:

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Heh...Yeah, i didn't exactly make it comprehensive, just giving examples so people know what I was talking about


Saying France doesn't have the balls to use nuclear weapons is like saying a pride of lions doesn't have the guts to jump into a volcano

 

[CptStern]

Civilians die in war. That's the ugly truth of it. Specially when you are fighting civilians & terrorists within their own communities. If the public doesn't like it they shouldn't have sent us there. Since they did they better support us.

7000 died during the war, 3000-4000 during the occupation

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

I fail to see the relevance of that CptStern, to Shellbacks remark.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

France has hardware? Well at least we know they are too wussy to use em'

Faced with an attitude like that from an ally, maybe they should. :dozey:

 

[CptStern]

I fail to see the relevance of that CptStern, to Shellbacks remark.

it's relevant because Shellback mentions:

"Specially when you are fighting civilians & terrorists within their own communities. "

implying that the bulk of the deaths were due to terrorist acts, when in fact it's not true; the majority died during the bombing campaigns of the first days of the war

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

it's relevant because Shellback mentions:

"Specially when you are fighting civilians & terrorists within their own communities. "

implying that the bulk of the deaths were due to terrorist acts, when in fact it's not true; the majority died during the bombing campaigns of the first days of the war

It would have been nice had the combatents kept their uniforms on and moved out to open desert where they could have been finished off surgically.

A friend of mine is with a unit that was among the first to find a large stash of weapons inside a school. I read of it in an EMAIL from him before I heard it on AP or Reuters.

 

[CptStern]

It would have been nice had the combatents kept their uniforms on and moved out to open desert where they could have been finished off surgically.

A friend of mine is with a unit that was among the first to find a large stash of weapons inside a school. I read of it in an EMAIL from him before I heard it on AP or Reuters.

I dont want to get into a debate about semantics but my point was your numbers were off.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

I dont want to get into a debate about semantics but my point was your numbers were off.

I re-read my posts and didn't see anywhere that I stated numbers???

 

[CptStern]

implied numbers

"Specially when you are fighting civilians & terrorists within their own communities"

this statement implies the time period during the occupation and after the invasion

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

implied numbers

I would like to see an objective third party point out in any of my text an area where I implied numbers... I didn't...

I like to debate with you Skipper but I can't figure out where go with this one.

 

[CptStern]

ffs, it's plain as day:

you said:

"Civilians die in war. That's the ugly truth of it. Specially when you are fighting civilians & terrorists within their own communities."


fact: before the invasion the US was fighting the iraqi military

post invasion the US army is fighting terrorists and insurgents

you said:

when you are fighting civilians & terrorists within their own communities."



your implication is quite clear:

"civilians die in war especially when terrorists are situated amongst civilains" - which implies the current timeframe

my point was/is that more civilains died during the war than during the occupation

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

Well I'm a bit disappointed. Usually your jabs at me are better grounded than this. You feeling ok today?

This should suffice to clear up my statement for you...

Civilians die in war. That's the ugly truth of it. Specially when you are fighting soldiers, civilians & terrorists within their own communities.

 

[CptStern]

look, there have been 11,000 civilian deaths (conservatively ...some estimates are as high as 30,000) ...if we take 11,000 as a fair estimate than we can further break it down to

11,000 civilian deaths
7,350 of those were during the war

therefore 7,350 died prior to May 1st 2003 (before the occupation)


oh and it wasnt a jab, just clarifying something you said

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Im sorry.

...and what would you say is the 'best'? America?

...and what would you say is the 'best'? Britain?

Whats crazier than your nationalism, is the country your living in lossed twice to us. :rolling: Ho-hum!

Don't make me (and the rest of the world)

Since when has the rest of the world laughed with Britain? Last time I checked, Britain was laughing at the rest of the world. For varied reasons, which 1% of it contains possibly less then 4/5ths of your opinion.

you guys must have the highest number of blue-on-blue and civilian casualties ever

So...you support your case on hearsay. Great, and whats this blue-on-blue rheotoric? Civilian casualties? From what, Obesity?

the US army consists of 90% unemployed hicks and triggerhappy kids.

Well, you dont know the people in armed services, so this opinion derived out of thin air suites no constructive presentation that its said figures are correct. Therefore, in an arguement, we must disclose this as writer opinion, and not historical fact.

I'd say the British army are amongst the best in the world.

Who cares if "its" or "theirs", are the best? You might, but for reasons to barter your countries importance and participation in "Iraqi Freedom" less than a shadow of the United States.

The United States is not a primary figure in this coalition, and nethire is any "one" country. All of us volunteered to this situation, therefore it is a shared guilt that crimes or "bad soldiers" are commited to.

On the Day of Defeat message forums, we discussed that some people in the Uk and US were trading photographs of beatings and kills as if they were baseball cards. Its a true story, and your countries "finest" participated in it one way or the other. You cant change that with either number or ideal.

You ARE apart of this coalition--and it is, guilt by association.

Truth hurts?

Why not prompt a question that gives people a chance to opinion? I also surely dont see your message all over the UK as the countries official stance.

I dont even know people here in America, that even posted or even worded statements as you have. We're grateful of the help, and were not protruding, "We are the best." Only, thank god we got some help on this.

Was referring to the skill, not the size ... to be the best, you need the skill too.

The best have fallen to the worst before. Your countries finest for the first Revolutionary War, and then the War of 1812, our first true war against an Invasion, were defeated on field and hill.

Your best, were defeated by partisans understrengthed and underarmed. We fought without rules, you played by the rules. Your rules. And you lost.

Sorry, but you brought your country into discussion, and prompted their entry as being rude and insulting to other nations. You provide that behavior, and I will equally dish it out. I do apologize to anyone else in the UK, it was not my intent to slander or hurt you, but it was my intent to post my opinions just as ironical and blunt as Pobz statement.

A million monkeys next to 20 royal marine elite commandos - which would you say is the best?

Well, I dunno. Seemed like in 28 Days later, the million monkeys caused your Royal Marines to go bonko.

Not mentioning the many british soldiers and vehicles KIA by american blue-on-blues ... like I say, triggerhappy kids.

Nee-ner Nee-ner Neeeee-NER! You cant find any sources!

Ignorance and stupidity in the same line

Oh yea, look below!

I'm stating facts in this thread, you seem to be the one ignoring facts and trying to make fun.

Wait...it gets better!

A million monkeys next to 20 royal marine elite commandos - which would you say is the best?

you seem to be the one ignoring facts and trying to make fun

and what would you say is the 'best'? America? Don't make me (and the rest of the world) laugh ...

It is quiet the opposite, really. :dozey:

Huh, too bad. I dont see a single source from you, but only from one other member.

Icarus why warn me?

So you know why:

1. and what would you say is the 'best'? America? Don't make me (and the rest of the world) laugh ...

   
   

   A million monkeys next to 20 royal marine elite commandos - which would you say is the best?

That and your insulting of other opinions:

Ignorance and stupidity in the same line

So now we come to this...

Next time could you PM me my warnings so I know i've been warned?

"yeh, plz admin dont ban me or embarass meh cuz i was on teh roll and felt so rite omg blushblush

I'm off to bed, can't be arsed arguing with people that have their country stuck so far up their own arses that they can't digest any evidence that conflicts with their own corrupt beliefs.

Quick! LOOK BELOW!

I'd say the British army are amongst the best in the world.

Believe me, your country is not all you think it to be.

Ho-hum!

back on topic

Agreed.

=====================

Don't vote for corrupt politicians then. The people running the government don't make the government itself different.

I always viewed the President of the United States as just an image. All politicians seem to me an image, much rather than a figure of physical changes.

Corrupt Politicians are easy to spot out, as most of the time, they are openly corrupt. Corrupt, does'nt always mean "works with the mafia", it could also mean their views are extreme or dont cater to one group purposely. It also could easily mean their sold out to other groups, or are just someone elses puppet.

My only beef with the Iraq war was that the US's rushed attack plan has led to a ton of crap for everyone involved, and they gained support by exaggerating really weak 'evidence' of WMDs.

Through which, im not suprised they did'nt find them.

I think their only merit where the captured Patriot Missle systems left behind from the first Gulf War, and the SCUD missles that had "unknown yet dangerous payloads" -The New York Times, Page 16A, January 1st, 2004, Washington releases WMD Statements

I'am not sure if the Iraqi's had even installed chemical or biological warheads into their own missles.

For whatever the case, I think the only dangerous WMD, where perhaps the Abrams tanks with their DU./sarcasm

I mean, Korea could've been better proofed over with the information we already had. Im pretty sure the country would've agreed more on that then the Iraq situation.

Due to North Koreas extremely poor logistical system it is unlikely that a form of Guerilla warfare would work. Although their commandos are very effective, there is only a small area for them to operate, with fairly obselete equipment.

I also think the influences involved would place a control over North Korea with much better effects than in Iraq. I think people in North Korea are interested in the SK's way of life. It would'nt suprise that the only forces resisting, were political hardbodies and general soldiers representing the face of the NK nation.

I dont entirely think, as a side note, North Korea has the largest Army amungst the world. I know for certain, China has around 1.6 million soldiers, since it was forced to go with Cut-downs to support better equipment and training.

Tactically the US never lost and in the Jungle the US forces did better than when fighting occured in the cities... (Tet)

Tactically it never did. Public support was just lost, and in 1973, our President basically ordered a pullout. Im not sure if by 1975 or '76 if we were all pulled out.

It just a case of "morale loss", that caused our pulling out. Victories, were generally ours. The North Korean generals were well educated, but not prepared with enough supply or trained/well equiped troops to face us down.

I think we just generally survied preserverance through our training and equipment.

I think the regular American army needs a shape up, because it the moment its a career path, or just a job, not an efficient fighting force

Its very disciplined for what it is, but im unsure about the percentages of US Sects operating in Iraq. Sect=Marines, Army etc.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

look, there have been 11,000 civilian deaths (conservatively ...some estimates are as high as 30,000) ...if we take 11,000 as a fair estimate than we can further break it down to

11,000 civilian deaths
7,350 of those were during the war

therefore 7,350 died prior to May 1st 2003 (before the occupation)


oh and it wasnt a jab, just clarifying something you said

So you're saying that after the Iraqi army was defeated and no longer acting as a cohesive fighting unit the number of civilian casualties lessened... Ok

 

[Maxi]

So anyone know WTH this is yet?

 

[K e r b e r o s]

The Bomb detonation? Lots of people have placed at three items:

"...reports indicate that the cloud over the Province, may have been a forest fire..." -Raleigh Times, Mushroom Cloud over North Korea September 12th, 2004

"...whats being speculated is that North Korea could possibly be testing Nuclear, Or Atomic Materials. This could foreclude, a jump in progress for the North Korean Weapons Programme."

-Some show on TV...forgot where it was...

"...the explosion may have been a Nuclear detonation, but it could also be a new weapon sensitive in the same ways a Fuel Air Bomb..."

-Some...other...place...

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

So anyone know WTH this is yet?

A Dam... They're blasting rock out to build a dam. That's all.

You guys should seriously get your news from AP or Reuters..

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Wheres the Dam going to be? Heh, what kinda Dam explosives were used for this damn dam?

Dammit, I thought I had the right damn news!

/endpuns /endzellmillar

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

Wheres the Dam going to be? Heh, what kinda Dam explosives were used for this damn dam?

Dammit, I thought I had the right damn news!

/endpuns /endzellmillar

You need to get your dam facts straight! LOL

 

[CptStern]

So you're saying that after the Iraqi army was defeated and no longer acting as a cohesive fighting unit the number of civilian casualties lessened... Ok

no I'm saying when the bombing campaigns ended the number of civilians killed lessened

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Lets get back on topic now, its gone off too long

 

[spinkitten]

In the ITV news tonight, the Korean government have invited a Foreign Minister to inspect the progress on the dam, and where the explosion took place. This is at least promising in that NK are being open about there developments, as opposed to hiding fortress like. The news reporter went on a guided tour, it showed a country falling apart, the majority of services like the tube are old russian machines, touring the city it was just crumbling concrete buildings. Most notable on the skyline was this half-built skyscraper, when the interviewer asked the guide, she said it had started construction over 12 years ago, but the US cut funding and since the construction had practically stopped. The interviewer's narrative went on to conclude that it is most Koreans view that their country is in this state from the US, they're fed propaganda on how they're country has had a rightous past, often fuelled by warfare - was quite an eye-opening interview, but at least we can conclude that if they're offering ministers to inspect areas, that it's far from any worst-case scenario.