My Physics Department has become a front for creationists.

Solaris

Solaris

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I was this morning forwarded the following email by my physics department:

Is Evolution the consensus among scientists?

Often we think it is but James Clerk Maxwell, Lord Kelvin, James Joule and Michael Faraday are just a few from a long list of great physicists who were not convinced by it.

Will we ever get to the bottom of it? Will our minds ever understand origin of species or how this beautiful world came about?

In an attempt to answer some of these questions:

'INTELLIGENT DESIGN OR AMAZING COINCIDENCE?'

Wednesday 25th March
Lecture with Dr R Beckett
7-8pm MBC Lecture Theatre 1
Cost :: Free

Come along and feed your thinking on these issues or raise your own ideas/questions in the question-and-answer session at the end.

This event has been organised as part of the QUBCU Events week, 'Where's Your Head at?'

Hope to see you there,

Rachel Montgomery


More information on 'Where's your head at?' can be found on ....
Click to expand...

This was my reply:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am absolutely dismayed, angry and upset that the physics department have forwarded me this email.

I am a first year student in the physics department. I aspire to be a scientist and enjoy learning in the department which is always alive with scientific activity. Up till now I have had nothing but the greatest respect for the department. I have occasionally been slightly annoyed by lecturers expressing their religious views at the start of course, however it is usually brief and I try and ignore it. However, a rational person cannot help but lose a little respect for somebody who believes that there once was a person who could defy the laws of physics, walk on water, come back from the dead and feed hundreds of people with just a few fish. When the person who believes this is themselves a scientist the effect is multiplied.

However I thought the physics department as an institution was immune from this. It is surely one of the centre points for scientific endeavour and rational thinking in all of Northern Ireland. This being so, it is genuinely upsetting when the department advertises a talk that perpetuates ignorance and is an insult to the great scientist Charles Darwin. Describing his wonderful theory of Evolution by Natural Selection as just "An Amazing Coincidence" does no justice whatsoever to the theory and is a clear indicator that the organiser of the talk has no clue what they are talking about. Suggesting that "intelligent design" is a reasonable alternative to the theory of evolution is total nonsense, it has no scientific support and no serious scientific institutions endorse it.

The physics department should have absolutely nothing to do with this talk. It should stand by its fellow scientists in denouncing superstition and completely irrational beliefs. However by advertising it, you have endorsed it. My passion for learning in the physics department has been seriously hurt. I am taught in lectures some of the physical laws of the universe, but now the physics department says that perhaps maybe these laws are not absolute after all and in fact their is a god in the clouds who make everything work? This talk undermines everything I have been taught. By endorsing this event the physics department has absolutely compromised its integrity.

What really makes me angry however is the claim that James Clerk Maxwell, Lord Kelvin, James Joule and Michael Faraday did not believe in evolution. Some of them were dead before the theory had started and in the case of Lord Kelvin, it is a pure lie. Whoever wrote that should be ashamed.

I pay a lot of money every year to study here because I love physics; I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in Christian propaganda. I'm unsure as to what action I would like to request the department to take, so I will instead just reaffirm my anger and disappointment in what I thought was such a wonderful institution for science and reason.

Yours Sincerely

[my name]
Click to expand...

I am very angry right now.
 
haha good for you. i agree. i cant see how some people can still believe evolution is not real nowadays.

you've got to remeber to respect peoples views however, and i shouldn't take it any further.
 
That's a lot of hostility of over something silly. Don't go to the lecture.

Who cares what they believe, it doesn't hinder your physics learning. Maybe if it was Biology it would be different but Physics has nothing to do with origins so who cares.
 
If you get a reply, please show it us :p

I havn't heard any mention of religion in my Engineering department, other than an old grumpy lecturer mumbling about it being a "load of old codswallop".
 
This is just like my Science lessons all over again where we had to learn about Intelligent Design yet were forbidden to learn about Evolution. Then to top it off Religious Eduaction was compulserary and we had to learn why Science is a lie, and that Evolution was a trick by God to test our faith.
And it wasn't even a bloody faith school. It's a shame where religion can simply lie and try to use supposed scientific facts to help their cause, and the scientific community sits back and welcomes them.

I's like to see them reply back to that.
 
cleverendeavouR said:
That's a lot of hostility of over something silly. Don't go to the lecture.

Who cares what they believe, it doesn't hinder your physics learning. Maybe if it was Biology it would be different but Physics has nothing to do with origins so who cares.
Click to expand...
If alot of people suddenly appeared out of nowhere, that is of great interest to physicists as we will have to rethink the laws of thermodynamics.
 
PimpinPenguin said:
This is just like my Science lessons all over again where we had to learn about Intelligent Design yet were forbidden to learn about Evolution. Then to top it off Religious Eduaction was compulserary and we had to learn why Science is a lie, and that Evolution was a trick by God to test our faith.
And it wasn't even a bloody faith school. It's a shame where religion can simply lie and try to use supposed scientific facts to help their cause, and the scientific community sits back and welcomes them.

I's like to see them reply back to that.
Click to expand...

Jesus, what school did you go to??.
 
Honestly, that letter makes you look childish.

Why are different ideas so toxic to you? It's not like it hurts you if someone tells you something that is wrong. That is why you have to learn to critically analyze ideas for yourself instead of blindly accepting what people tell you. If an idea is blatantly wrong, then it is easy to defeat in an open debate, if it has some points of merit, then it forces you to acknowledge them and refine your position.

Scientific fundamentalism is no different than religious fundamentalism.
 
The key word there was fundamentalism, I will go back and put it in bold. I was calling out the hypocrisy of rationalizing fundamentalist belief because it is counter to another fundamentalist belief. And you totally missed the point of my post because I never once mentioned that creationism was science or that evolution was not science, silly term though it is.

On a bit of a tangent, those who uses the word scientist these days is generally just trying to appeal to a higher power. It leverages a concept of someone smarter than the average Joe. Most fields are specialized enough that a scientist doesn't even exist. Researchers are usually classified as physicists, or biologists, or mathematicians at the most general level.
 
What's open to question is to what degree the department even 'endorses' this talk. Who is Rachel Montgomery, maybe just a copypasta admin woman? What is this 'Where's Your Head At?' week and how easy/hard is it for scientists (of any calibre) to get on the lecturing schedule for it? Just because they've scheduled it, doesn't mean there will be anyone in attendance who believes a word of it - doesn't mean the guy won't get torn to shreds. And if that happens you should be glad of it.

Incidentally it is a bit immature to declare a loss of 'respect' for anyone religious. For many people, religion is not the endpoint of their belief system but more of a moral/ideological prism through which they interpret everything that is intangible/unknowable about life. That prism can sometimes occlude all rational thought or it can have no effect on their reasoning ability whatsoever. For example, Ken Miller has been one of the most vocal and active attackers of Creationism in America, and he's Catholic I believe.
 
KICK HER IN THE YOOHOO



meh it's a lecture not unlike lectures on other subjects like fairy tales and or star trek


also:

"QUBCU Events week"

Queen's University Belfast Christian Union. Is someone in your class from this organisation? if so target them not the physics department as a whole as it doesnt seem to be associated with your school just with that particular association
 
CptStern said:
KICK HER IN THE YOOHOO



meh it's a lecture not unlike lectures on other subjects like fairy tales and or star trek


also:

"QUBCU Events week"

Queen's University Belfast Christian Union. Is someone in your class from this organisation? if so target them not the physics department as a whole as it doesnt seem to be associated with your school just with that particular association
Click to expand...

Half my floor is in the CU. They set up a stall outside campus and give people free coffee and sweets on the way back from a night out. I always decline and shout Darwin quotes at them.
 
Good for you voicing your disdain and anger over this issue. I would have done the exact same thing.
 
Solaris said:
Half my floor is in the CU. They set up a stall outside campus and give people free coffee and sweets on the way back from a night out. I always decline and shout Darwin quotes at them.
Click to expand...

in other words you play the part of the screaming lunatic ;)

perhaps you should have sent them a letter instead of the physics department something along the lines of

"IRELAND IS CATHOLIC, PREPARE TO BE ASSISIMULATED, SPECIFICALLY THE ASS PART"

then throw a molotov in their general direction ..it helps if you're wearing a bandana or balaclava
 
I didn't know evolution fell under the umbrella of physics.

But I'm glad to hear its not just the US that is crazy.
 
Emporius said:
Everything falls under physics :p
Click to expand...

But evolution falls many miles below the "umbrella of physics."

Also, you're assuming the physics department forwarded that email for your benefit. They may have just wanted to plant hecklers in the audience, in which case it sounds like you should have gone.
 
That's what happens in a very religioulsy conservative country.
 
I never run into creationists. I mean absolutely never. even the christians I know mostly believe in evolution ..they just dont like the gays/abortion. I think I'd go just to see how downright crazy/fanatical some people can be over sky wizards and associated mumbo jumbo
 
Dan said:
Honestly, that letter makes you look childish.
Click to expand...

We're talking about Solaris here, that's a given surely? :LOL:

You have to remember that in the mind of Solaris there can only be one way of thinking, anything else is unacceptable (possibly even treasonous and your friend the computer hates treason :dozey: ). The irony that pretty much all scientific advance has been based on questioning the assumptions of those beforehand rather than blindly accepting the existing convention as a given is beside the point. :rolleyes:

Sounds like a discussion forum for 'open debate' rather than an' evolution is the devils talk!!'. OP is making a mountain out of a molehill as usual, and missing the point.

Personally I'm all on the evolution band wagon, but occasionally like when my football team score a kick ass goal one can't help but feel it's just all too perfect ;)
 
Thus why I live in France. Your teacher would be send to jail for sending that particular email, let alone having that kind of lecture in a University.

Here in France, religion is for the weak.
 
There are a few christian religions that allow individual interpretation of certain parts of the bible, Genesis included.
 
Robert- said:
Is there a new Christianity/Science hybrid religion that I haven't heard about?
Click to expand...

yes it's called moderate/sane christians/catholics ..yes I know they're a rare breed, mostly taking to dark lonely corners of the world for fear of being exposed for their hypocrisy but they do exist


i think there must be a large minority/small majority of jesus believers who cant possibly swallow all the mumbo jumbo their religion pushes ..if that's not true than the vast majority of western society believe in the religious equivilent of the tooth fairy. and that's a lot of dum dums


Corp. Sheepo said:
There are a few christian religions that allow individual interpretation of certain parts of the bible, Genesis included.
Click to expand...


also for the most part canada doesnt have as many diverse christian groups as the US does ..probably a fraction of that and it's almost exclusively dominated by protestants and catholics. evangelical christians are either very rare in canada or seldom seen
 
Adrien C said:
Thus why I live in France. Your teacher would be send to jail for sending that particular email, let alone having that kind of lecture in a University.

Here in France, religion is for the weak.
Click to expand...

So is it a case of you live there by choice because of this, or is the reality more than you live there because you were born there and are too poor to move to a more enlightened and free thinking country? One where debate on a subject is allowed? :dozey:


Corp. Sheepo said:
There are a few christian religions that allow individual interpretation of certain parts of the bible, Genesis included.
Click to expand...


I think quite a few view much of what is written as allegorical rather than literal.
 
CptStern said:
yes it's called moderate/sane christians/catholics ..yes I know they're a rare breed, mostly taking to dark lonely corners of the world for fear of being exposed for their hypocrisy but they do exist


i think there must be a large minority/small majority of jesus believers who cant possibly swallow all the mumbo jumbo their religion pushes ..if that's not true than the vast majority of western society believe in the religious equivilent of the tooth fairy. and that's a lot of dum dums
Click to expand...

Yes, but, the Bible states that Jesus created everyone. That being said, "christians" who believe otherwise, aren't christian at all..
 
Not really. They take the stance that since Jesus taught mostly through allegory that may have been true of the old testament, especially since Genesis is obviously not factually correct.
 
Dan said:
Honestly, that letter makes you look childish.

Why are different ideas so toxic to you? It's not like it hurts you if someone tells you something that is wrong. That is why you have to learn to critically analyze ideas for yourself instead of blindly accepting what people tell you. If an idea is blatantly wrong, then it is easy to defeat in an open debate, if it has some points of merit, then it forces you to acknowledge them and refine your position.

Scientific fundamentalism is no different than religious fundamentalism.
Click to expand...

Err.. that doesn't make sense. Fundamentalism demands subjectivity, science strives for objectivity. You can be no more fundamentalist at science than you can be fundamentalist about math.

I find your standpoint to be dangerous, as it implies that creationism is somehow an equal idea, just the "other side of the same coin" while it couldn't be further from it. It also doesn't deserve an open debate, because creationism is not a scientific idea and thus it's not possible to have a scientific debate about it. Just like you can't have a debate between a NASA scientist and a flat-Earth believer. It doesn't adhere to any scientific standards so how can you judge the merits of the idea?
 
Robert- said:
Yes, but, the Bible states that Jesus created everyone. That being said, "christians" who believe otherwise, aren't christian at all..
Click to expand...

Jesus 'created' everybody? I think you mean God surely? Also you could view it more that God put the wheel in motion rather than he modelled everyone up like some coke snorting Sims player of a 4000" monitor
 
Robert- said:
Yes, but, the Bible states that Jesus created everyone. That being said, "christians" who believe otherwise, aren't christian at all..
Click to expand...

no, jesus didnt create anyone. god did. oh and even the vatican recognises evolution to a point:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...volution-is-compatible-with-Christianity.html

Just because some whacko fundamentalists say christians should believe everything word for word in the bible doesnt make it so. They're not defined by what they dont believe but rather what they do believe in ..at least this my impression having grown up catholic
 
PvtRyan said:
Err.. that doesn't make sense. Fundamentalism demands subjectivity, science strives for objectivity. You can be no more fundamentalist at science than you can be fundamentalist about math.

I find your standpoint to be dangerous, as it implies that creationism is somehow an equal idea, just the "other side of the same coin" while it couldn't be further from it. It also doesn't deserve an open debate, because creationism is not a scientific idea and thus it's not possible to have a scientific debate about it. Just like you can't have a debate between a NASA scientist and a flat-Earth believer. It doesn't adhere to any scientific standards so how can you judge the merits of the idea?
Click to expand...

Given the origins of how the universe came to be haven't yet been firmly established then debate is surely still on the cards? Scientific fundamentalism much? I think so. :dozey:

One doesn't necessarily have to hold firm to the idea of the Jewish Zombie Jesus God being the creator to speculate that the Universe might have come about because of intelligent fiddling by some extra dimensional power beyond our present comprehension. Everything around you came into existence, from NOTHING...how ****ing mad is that when you get down to it? What caused it? Why is it that a bunch of hithertoo unrelated particles of various kinds came together to form this:-

scarlett_johansson.jpg


Life..it's a pretty amazing thing tbh. Don't make it mundane. ;)




CptStern said:
no, jesus didnt create anyone. god did. oh and even the vatican recognises evolution to a point:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...volution-is-compatible-with-Christianity.html

Just because some whacko fundamentalists say christians should believe everything word for word in the bible doesnt make it so. They're not defined by what they dont believe but rather what they do believe in ..at least this my impression having grown up catholic
Click to expand...

This. There is way too much generalising when it comes to religions as collectives 'The Christians', 'The Muslims' when the wider reality is that there exist a large number of differing churches under each, all of whom have quite diverse takes and interpretations of what is fact and allegory.
 
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