Natural inconsistency

[haruspex]

How come Half Life 2 series has the best weapon feel and reload animations(besides Rainbow Six and Battlefield 2142) unlike most of the stiff-fixed-to-screen FPSs, it really is great but when you walk there is no natural bobbing like in Battlefield 2142...in HL2 you just sort of glide..this always bothers me, especially after playing Battlefield 2142...

And also while you run there is no that weapon running animation like in almost all FPSs...

And it is really weird that you don't see your hands while operating turrets, valves and driving a vehicle, it is even bigger visual inconsistency. How hard it is to create just 3 additional animations?

In Gears of War you even see when you turn on switches, also in Prey--and you even see a hand when you operate that flying vehicle, and in SW:Republic Commando you see detailed animation of every hand action when operation all kinds of different turrets.

It is really strange inconsistency that Half Life 2 series doesn't have such basic stuff..

 

[redruM]

Well these things are a sort of...trademark of the HL series (can't think of a better word right now), it's always been this way, and even thought it would be cool to have these extra animations, I don't think it's really gonna happen.

 

[ríomhaire]

And it is really weird that you don't see your hands while operating turrets, valves and driving a vehicle, it is even bigger visual inconsistency. How hard it is to create just 3 additional animations?

You don't comprehend the complexities of this at all. Animations from a first person perspective are very different for those for third person games. In a third person game the player model is in the world and can interact with with.

In a first person game the arm and weapon models are not actually pressent in the game world, they are usually just sort of plastered onto the player's perspective. This is because it is extremely difficult to make models that interact with the world and look good. Look at any first person game. You will find next to zero where the arms interact with world and look good. The only game I can think of where this happens is Tresspasser, which looks like shit.

It is almost impossible for the arm models in a first person shooter to reach out into the game world and interact with objects and make it look good. If you look at Deus Ex, which shows an animation for using a lockpick on doors, the lockpicks are quite clearly just held in front of the doors and jiggled about, never actually entering the lock itself. This looks really, really stupid in an otherwise brilliant game.

The reason Valve didn't put animations for Gordon opening doors/pressing buttons? The same reason no FPS developer does this; because it looks shite. The turrets and the vehicles would be even worse. It's easier for thrid person games, where, as I've said, the model is already in the world, but also because the animations don't need to be good. You see the animations from a distance so they can be a bit unrealistic. First person animations must be decent.

Play any FPS game and grab a stationary turret. Look at your arms. Wait, you can't. Because every single dev knows that seeing your arms in this situation looks crap. What do they do? They lock your view so that you can just see the top of the turret but never the end of it or your hands. HL is pretty much the only exception to this rule.

Now, for the vehicles. "How hard it is to create just 3 additional animations?" you said. 3 additional animations my ass. Imagine trying to program animations for the buggy. You must program the movement of the feet, for both accelerating and breaking. The aiming of the tau gun and the shooting of it. The steering and the use of the turbo must also be animated. Now think. The player can go from accellerating to braking instantly. How can you program the feet to jump straight from one pedal to another instantly and make it look good? If you're just talking about the hands you must have Gordon able to steer, aim the gun and use the turbo all at once without this system ever breaking, looking stupid or just plain sucking. It's impossible. Remember that in the buggy you can look in any direction. What happens when Gordon has his hand on the gunbut then looks behind him? The hands would probably do something really stupid and unrealistic. And I haven't even mentioned the fact that you'd have huge ugly arms taking up half your vision.

I can't be arsed to go on so I just hope you've realised that what you're suggesting is not possbile without it looking damn stupid.

 

[FrostXian]

I still wish there was a head bobbing. After returning to Half Life earlier this month, I was actually suprised there was no headbob, and that I never noticed.

 

[Asknoone]

You have two more posts to prove you're not a troll.

 

[haruspex]

The same reason no FPS developer does this; because it looks shite.

How come you are lying?
Mentioning just SW: Republic Commando(not to mention Prey and others) in which this looks great and you even see a finger pulling the trigger and recoil while operating different turrets wasn't enough for you?

I still wish there was a head bobbing. After returning to Half Life earlier this month, I was actually suprised there was no headbob, and that I never noticed.

yeah, it's a shame, check out Battlefield 2142, it has the most natural feel of motion in FPS genre to this day, so every time such basic thing doesn't exist in other FPSs it ruins the immersion, the same as fixed stiff weapon in which HL2 excels(the absence of it of course).

 

[haruspex]

......

 

[Houndini]

im guessing those are combat games where you really need to put effort into how the gun looks, shoots and all that other stuff, but half life isn't a army game, this isn't call of duty, they dont need the gun to look real and act like a real thing.

also what redruM said.

Valve puts there effort into other things instead of making useless animations.

about the "head bobbling" that wouldn't be to bad.

 

[haruspex]

Valve puts there effort into other things instead of making useless animations.

That's a pretty bizarre and absurd thing to say...then everything is useless, why don't you just play Invaders or Solitaire?

not to mention that HL2 obviously puts much effort in the immersion(by mentioning how great it feels when you handle weapon and move your view around along with your hand), so such inconsistency is odd...

this is all stated in the first post..there is such thing called functional illiteracy...

 

[Houndini]

i didn't say everything was useless did i?

 

[Absinthe]

Nobody gives a shit if you can't see your hands when operating a vehicle, or a turret, or a toilet.

I've played through all the games and not once was there a moment where I thought "Wow! I wish I could see my arms grabbing these ladder bars!". It's a holdover from the feel of the first game. It never crosses my mind. So why bother?

 

[Asknoone]

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=127060&highlight=No+hands!

You have two more posts to prove you're not a troll.

 

[haruspex]

Well, "nobody", "I" and the existence of this topic doesn't go together very well, does it?

and when you mentioned ladders, after playing Dark Messiah, F.E.A.R. or Riddick every time some FPS doesn't have that it feels very lacking...

it's just a matter that some games raise standards, and after them you see something that is so natural that you wonder why it didn't bother you before, something like graphics in Crysis...

 

[Asknoone]

I was not planning to go into that but this is very simple:

1.Chronicles of Riddick :Escape From The Buthcer Bay
2.F.E.A.R.
3.Dark Messiah Of Might And Magic

As you can see they are superb games that show full body(everything you mentioned) thus giving greater immersion(especially 3)

This isn't looking good for you is it?

 

[haruspex]

stop trolling, your posts have no content whatsoever, I sent you a private message, delete your posts on this topic including this one...

 

[Asknoone]

Oh I don't want to ban you you're too good!

 

[MorganFreeman911]

Oh you're too good, Salmon.

 

[99.vikram]

And yet he's banned. I call intergalactic conspiracy!

 

[Cryha]

Did that guy just seriously talk back to a staff member . . . ?

 

[Andrew LB]

ha HA!!! Now that is a special kind of stupid.

 

[Pinkle]

holy shit, that was hilarious. Good show!

 

[MattyDienhoff]

it really is great but when you walk there is no natural bobbing like in Battlefield 2142...in HL2 you just sort of glide..this always bothers me, especially after playing Battlefield 2142...

There is weapon bob in HL2, although it's suspiciously absent on some weapons in GMod, for no apparent reason.

 

[kineaesth]

There is weapon bob in HL2, although it's suspiciously absent on some weapons in GMod, for no apparent reason.

A tad late...


Samon, you're the man.

 

[Jintor]

Wonderfully hilareous.

 

[ríomhaire]

and when you mentioned ladders, after playing Dark Messiah, F.E.A.R. or Riddick every time some FPS doesn't have that it feels very lacking...

I suppose there's not much point in replying now that he's banned, but ever since I played FEAR I've been glad that most FPSs don't include legs. Also, I don't remember any door-opening animations if FEAR.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

Oh I don't want to ban you you're too good!

That's showing him what happens when you mess with a Welshman!

 

[Flyingdebris]

the real answer is more often than not comes down to

"will adding this feature make a difference in terms of sales? No? then its not a priority, maybe we'll get around to it"

Valve is not a perfect company, they make good games, but they don't seem to focus too much on small scale consistancy as much as they do big picture kind of stuff. In fact, i'd go so far as to accuse them of laziness on part of the weapons.

Like how npcs manually reload the pulse rifle, but gordon's is automatic and apparently one handed, or how the grenades are bigger than the "mp7's" mysterious semi auto grenade barrel, or how gordon speedloads a revolver with just his thumb, or how a pump action shotty can double blast, and other stuff.

 

[AciD]

Hah that was great!
+1 to Epic

 

[Druckles]

:O And I missed it all!

Damn "holidays"

 

[Vaun]

The incredibly over-the-top HEV suit has a compensation module, it was made for hazardous environments including war zones (suprised there isnt on in S.T.A.L.K.E.R., but gordon freeman's corpse is... woulda made a kickass bit of armor).

 

[banana_f]

my answer is - Otherwise it wont be HALF LIFE !!!