news: CIA wrong about purported WMDs

[not28]

I woke up and this was all over the news

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/09/senate.intel.ap/index.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,125123,00.html
http://news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl=fc&cid=34&in=world&cat=espionage_and_intelligence

I doubt this will make things any better.

 

[CptStern]

here's a few more:

Reports by Iraqi defectors on weapons of mass destruction were embellished to make Saddam Hussein a more attractive target for the United States

Departing Tenet tells cia to resist outside interference: something to hide?

they'll nitpick the specific terminology used in the reports effectively sidestepping the bigger issue: the war was one big sham

 

[Mechagodzilla]

I guess this just confirms what was fairly obvious from the start.

 

[moz4rt]

I know the war could've been run much better, but IMO the world is better off than it was when Saddam was in power.

 

[not28]

I know the war could've been run much better, but IMO the world is better off than it was when Saddam was in power.

i'm not too sure about that.

"The committee's ranking Democrat, Sen. Jay Rockefeller of West Virginia, said: 'Tragically, the intelligence failures set forth in this report will affect our national security for generations to come. Our credibility is diminished. Our standing in the world has never been lower. We have fostered a deep hatred of Americans in the Muslim world, and that will grow. As a direct consequence, our nation is more vulnerable today than ever before.'"

 

[Korgoth]

i'm not too sure about that.

"The committee's ranking Democrat, Sen. Jay Rockefeller of West Virginia, said: 'Tragically, the intelligence failures set forth in this report will affect our national security for generations to come. Our credibility is diminished. Our standing in the world has never been lower. We have fostered a deep hatred of Americans in the Muslim world, and that will grow. As a direct consequence, our nation is more vulnerable today than ever before.'"

Sadly, it doesn't take a crack team of intelligence analysts to see that that is absolutly correct. :frown:

 

[KagePrototype]

Finally, someone admits to it.

 

[crabcakes66]

i'm not too sure about that.

"The committee's ranking Democrat, Sen. Jay Rockefeller of West Virginia, said: 'Tragically, the intelligence failures set forth in this report will affect our national security for generations to come. Our credibility is diminished. Our standing in the world has never been lower. We have fostered a deep hatred of Americans in the Muslim world, and that will grow. As a direct consequence, our nation is more vulnerable today than ever before.'"

I think this guy nailed it pretty well.


Not that I will be sad to see saddam stood before a wall and shot.

 

[thehunter1320]

(sung to the tune of "God bless america") someone f***ed america, land that i love!

 

[moz4rt]

i'm not too sure about that.

"The committee's ranking Democrat, Sen. Jay Rockefeller of West Virginia, said: 'Tragically, the intelligence failures set forth in this report will affect our national security for generations to come. Our credibility is diminished. Our standing in the world has never been lower. We have fostered a deep hatred of Americans in the Muslim world, and that will grow. As a direct consequence, our nation is more vulnerable today than ever before.'"

They hated us just as much before the war! Look at 9-11. Would you rather have Saddam back in power?

(I'm not saying this in a rude way so lets keep this to a debate and refrain from name calling and personal attacks)

 

[Dedalus]

They hated us just as much before the war! Look at 9-11. Would you rather have Saddam back in power?

(I'm not saying this in a rude way so lets keep this to a debate and refrain from name calling and personal attacks)

i don't think saddam had anything to do with 9/11, so i can't see the connection you're making.

 

[KagePrototype]

They hated us just as much before the war! Look at 9-11. Would you rather have Saddam back in power?

(I'm not saying this in a rude way so lets keep this to a debate and refrain from name calling and personal attacks)

Because of these attacks, prejudice and racism against muslims and middle-eastern people has grown ten-fold. They have all the reason in the world to hate America even more.

 

[crabcakes66]

They hated us just as much before the war! Look at 9-11. Would you rather have Saddam back in power?

I dont think anyone wants saddam back in power. Its just a question of the cost at which he was removed....And if it was neccasery in the first place.


We certainly didnt do it for "Moral reasons". And it has never been proven saddam had any thing to do with 9/11. I think that stems from stupid racist people thinking everyone in the middle east is a terrorist.(not that saddam isnt one)....."Saddam is a bad guy! He Lives over yonder in the desert! He Musta crahsed those planes!"

 

[moz4rt]

i don't think saddam had anything to do with 9/11, so i can't see the connection you're making.

you need to read the previous posts, i'm not saying he did. not28 said he didn't think the world was better off because saddam was out of power and that we may have provoked more hatred in the middle east. i'm saying they hate us now just as much as before the war.

what i meant by that question was do you think the world would be better off if saddam were back in power.

EDIT: 100 posts. w00t!

 

[crabcakes66]

what i meant by that question was do you think the world would be better off if saddam were back in power.

It wouldnt be any worse.

 

[moz4rt]

Because of these attacks, prejudice and racism against muslims and middle-eastern people has grown ten-fold. They have all the reason in the world to hate America even more.

i don't think that's true. i haven't seen any evidence of increased prejudice, racism, etc., towards middle-eastern people.

 

[CptStern]

what i meant by that question was do you think the world would be better off if saddam were back in power.

saddam would have been disposed of a long time ago if he hadnt had US support for 20 years.

i don't think that's true. i haven't seen any evidence of increased prejudice, racism, etc., towards middle-eastern people.

you must live in an all white community. I've seen it here in canada so I'm sure it must be far more prevelant in the US

 

[moz4rt]

It wouldnt be any worse.

that's where we disagree.

 

[KagePrototype]

i don't think that's true. i haven't seen any evidence of increased prejudice, racism, etc., towards middle-eastern people.

Oh, I DO think it's true, I've experienced it first hand. And I'm sure my town isn't the only place this sort of thing is occuring.

 

[moz4rt]

saddam would have been disposed of a long time ago if he hadnt had US support for 20 years.

U.S. support? It was Germany and France who were supporting him with oil money.

 

[clarky003]

saddam would have been disposed of a long time ago if he hadnt had US support for 20 years

so true,, evidence that there treating the public like fools :x .


I suspected it all along, (alterior motives are in play, they'll be announcing those next ). that just pisses me off :hmph: , now hearing something that they denied vigourously for so long, they probably knew this was true from day one.

 

[KagePrototype]

U.S. support? It was Germany and France who were supporting him with oil money.

The CIA supported Iraq's war with Iran. This lasted about 8 years.

 

[CptStern]

U.S. support? It was Germany and France who were supporting him with oil money.

please read up on your history. Saddam was heavily funded by the US, he would have been slaughtered in the iran-iraq war if not for US support

 

[not28]

They hated us just as much before the war! Look at 9-11. Would you rather have Saddam back in power?

(I'm not saying this in a rude way so lets keep this to a debate and refrain from name calling and personal attacks)

9/11 was coordinated by usama bin laden and al qaeda. they should have been the our primary objectives the whole time.
no, i would not have saddam back in power. but i would not have 1000+ u.s. troops dead over misguided intelligence, either.

 

[not28]

I dont think anyone wants saddam back in power. Its just a question of the cost at which he was removed....And if it was neccasery in the first place.


We certainly didnt do it for "Moral reasons". And it has never been proven saddam had any thing to do with 9/11. I think that stems from stupid racist people thinking everyone in the middle east is a terrorist.(not that saddam isnt one)....."Saddam is a bad guy! He Lives over yonder in the desert! He Musta crahsed those planes!"

absolutely. saddam hussein was a horrible person and he certainly deserved to be ousted. BUT, the cost at doing this was just too great, and, in my opinion, not worth the chances.

 

[CptStern]

he wasnt a horrible person when the US called him an ally and friend

here: this photo was taken mere days after news broke that saddam had killed thousands of Iranian soldiers with chemical weapons

 

[moz4rt]

Oh, I DO think it's true, I've experienced it first hand. And I'm sure my town isn't the only place this sort of thing is occuring.

it's sad that those people are so badly informed then. if people know the facts then they can see there is no reason to be racist toward middle-eastern people. you can't say the war was bad because ill-informed people would become racist. it is their own fault. ya know? people need to start taking responsibility and read the news. it's terrorists who are bad, not muslims or middle-easter people in general.

(are there any other conservatitive thinking people out there who can help me out with this. i can't type this fast )

 

[not28]

he wasnt a horrible person when the US called him an ally and friend

here: this photo was taken mere days after news broke that saddam had killed thousands of Iranian soldiers with chemical weapons

i remember seeing that video....
funny how the u.s. government always ends up supporting the wrong people, only to back out and make themselves look like fools.

 

[clarky003]

absolutely. saddam hussein was a horrible person and he certainly deserved to be ousted. BUT, the cost at doing this was just too great, and, in my opinion, not worth the chances.

unless in doing so, they had something to gain, that out weighed the loss. :stare: hint hint

:hmph: me looks at the struggling over oil fields, and incidents involving Iraqi's burning oil fields in order to Prevent The US/ UN getting their hands on them.

 

[CptStern]

ya but it wasnt a secret that saddam was a butcher...actually saddam came into power because of a cia coup that overthrew the previous regime

 

[not28]

(are there any other conservatitive thinking people out there who can help me out with this. i can't type this fast )

this is the crutch of the american people. this transcends petty conservative-versus-liberal thought. for a so-called "united" country, we are divided on everything.

 

[not28]

ya but it wasnt a secret that saddam was a butcher...actually saddam came into power because of a cia coup that overthrew the previous regime

the same thing happened with fidel castro, didn't it?

 

[moz4rt]

please read up on your history. Saddam was heavily funded by the US, he would have been slaughtered in the iran-iraq war if not for US support

I'm all read up on my history. Germany and France supported him 10x more with oil money than the U.S. It's always BLAME AMERICA FIRST isn't it?

 

[Dan]

You don't think that the US uses Iraqi oil either??

 

[moz4rt]

this is the crutch of the american people. this transcends petty conservative-versus-liberal thought. for a so-called "united" country, we are divided on everything.

i'm talking generally here. it's a fact more liberals are against the war and more conservatives support it. why are we even talking about this?

 

[KagePrototype]

it's sad that those people are so badly informed then. if people know the facts then they can see there is no reason to be racist toward middle-eastern people. you can't say the war was bad because ill-informed people would become racist. it is their own fault. ya know? people need to start taking responsibility and read the news. it's terrorists who are bad, not muslims or middle-easter people in general.

(are there any other conservatitive thinking people out there who can help me out with this. i can't type this fast )

I'm simply saying you're wrong on your assertion that they don't hate the US anymore than they did before 9/11. As for your comments on being mis-informed, you're right, I agree, it is sickening how people could think like that. But that's what the world is like. This is a direct consequence of America placing the blame for the 9/11 attacks on middle-eastern countries, and a pretty bad one at that. I think people have every right to attack the war based on this.

 

[Javert]

I guess saying that Ronald Reagan sold weapons to Saddam is just too risque still eh?

Has the world and the U.S. really been a safer place since Saddam has been ousted? I don't think so. Terrorism is a phoenix, one that is constantly reborn from the ashes. In ousting him from power we have:
*Estranged the international community.
*Received constant terrorism threats, in vague and cryptic intelligence.
*Lost the lives of soldiers, civilians, engineers, and foreigners, oftentimes needlessly.
*Sparked an uprising in Iraq snowballing towards a coup and fueled more Anti-Western hatred in the Middle East.

gg.

I'm all read up on my history. Germany and France supported him 10x more with oil money than the U.S. It's always BLAME AMERICA FIRST isn't it?

You don't see Germany and France receving the major brunt of terrorism do you? I think they have their own problems, and we darn well have ours in spades. So it's not so much a country to blame, but administrations.
Also, out of curiosity, what's your source?

 

[moz4rt]

You don't think that the US uses Iraqi oil either??

i didn't say that.

 

[clarky003]

You don't think that the US uses Iraqi oil either??

you know they have plans ,, I dont think they'll be handing it over to Iraq, Oil is one of the main substances that drives the modern world,, the repeat statistic,, 40%,

its too important to ignore. Like alot of people dismiss this is an oil war,., when it just keeps looking more like one.

 

[moz4rt]

I'm simply saying you're wrong on your assertion that they don't hate the US anymore than they did before 9/11. As for your comments on being mis-informed, you're right, I agree, it is sickening how people could think like that. But that's what the world is like. This is a direct consequence of America placing the blame for the 9/11 attacks on middle-eastern countries, and a pretty bad one at that. I think people have every right to attack the war based on this.

i'm saying it's not as bad as you may make it out to be

EDIT: i'm glad we can agree on something, sort of.