news: CIA wrong about purported WMDs

DarkStar said:
That didn't stop the mainstream press from jumping all over the Abu Gharib prison scandel. Or this latest report on intelligence failures. Listen, the mainstream press has no problem with making America look bad, but the story has to be true. Sorry, the argument that ALL news organization's are solely responsible only to their investors doesn't hold water with me. It is just a little to conspiracy-laden for my tastes.

Now you're certainly right about SOME news outlets pandering to their investors.....(cough)Fox News(cough)
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they all pander to investors ...they have to ..investors make or break the company. Believe what you want but US media is biased in the war in iraq. Just watch any other news source and compare. I cant turn oncnn without watching some human interest piece about american troops in the US, but they rarely report any of the mounting civilian casualties...at least not in comparison to the BBC or CBC

also there was no way to avoid the prison scandal
 
DarkStar said:
Except Saddam said over and over again that he didn't have any weapons, he never claimed "I have a gun." He f*cked up though by not allowing inspectors to look absolutely everywhere.
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lol, thats not the point, the intelligence f*cked up in the first place. your just trying to shift the blame to a man, who, in his current state couldnt even wipe his own arse.
 
DarkStar said:
No doubt we officially supported the Baath party, But that is majorly different from a clandestine US operation to put Saddam into power. Which did not occur.
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Darkstar ....the CIA provided the Baath party with a list of targets that needed to be assinated in order to ensure power
 
clarky003 said:
the difference = this is a war with hundreds of thousands of lives on the line.

you need to be sure first. :dozey:
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Okay... you say you need to be sure first. However, we're talking about a guy, who has gassed, murdered, butchered people in countless ways, who has launched missiles of destruction on neighboring countries(scud missiles), and is generally known to be a very violent, dangerous person. Can you be sure, that guy on the street, who is a convicted felon of multiple murders, robberies, etc, won't indeed be capable of what he says he is?

It's just an analogy man. The point is... you can't honestly look at Saddam's history and say with certainly, "Naw, that guy doesn't have WMD, he isn't the type!"
 
CIA always ****s everything up!!!!Hopefully with a new CIA adminstrator and Kerry/Edwards in the White House everything would change.
 
blahblahblah said:
I can name plenty of instances of where a country botched up foreign relations. Take a look in history, every country has make tons of foreign policy mistakes. Some of them caused major wars. I am not saying the United States is better than any other country, but don't say that the United States is the only country to mess something up regarding a foreign country.
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that's completely beside the point. i'm an american. it is my civic and ethical duty to demand responsible behavior from my government.. i'm not a citizen of any other country.

every thinking person in this country knew that this war was a mistake (at best), and the simple-mindedness/short-sightedness of this administration just ****ed it up like we all said they would anyways.
 
CptStern said:
Darkstar ....the CIA provided the Baath party with a list of targets that needed to be assinated in order to ensure power
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Where is this factual information? It's of my knowledge that the CIA rarely EVER tells anybody what they, in fact, do.
 
CptStern said:
they all pander to investors ...they have to ..investors make or break the company. Believe what you want but US media is biased in the war in iraq. Just watch any other news source and compare. I cant turn oncnn without watching some human interest piece about american troops in the US, but they rarely report any of the mounting civilian casualties...at least not in comparison to the BBC or CBC

also there was no way to avoid the prison scandal
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Okay, fine give me some links to BBC sources or major foreign newspapers. I'm just not buying into a link from some random website called "alternet." If I used any of the websites provided in this thread for a college paper, the professor would laugh their ass off and give me a D.
 
Lil' Timmy said:
every thinking person in this country knew that this war was a mistake (at best), and the simple-mindedness/short-sightedness of this administration just ****ed it up like we all said they would anyways.
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Totally man. Even supporters of the war (which I was not) have to admit the Bush administrations post-war strategy was at best impotent and at worst non-existant.
 
CptStern said:
Darkstar ....the CIA provided the Baath party with a list of targets that needed to be assinated in order to ensure power
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Again, give me a halfway respectable source and I'll believe it.
 
Tr0n said:
CIA always ****s everything up!!!!Hopefully with a new CIA adminstrator and Kerry/Edwards in the White House everything would change.
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Well, just so you know... the world was unstable far before bush, the middle eastern countries have had lots of people who have hated the united states far before bush... and they will continue to do so after bush. Nothing is going to change and suddenly end all hostilities completely and permanently in the course of one man's reign as president.

My reasoning for all the anti american middle easterners are saying bush is the worst president ever, is because they see the opportunity of convincing flawlessly to our own public to go against our government.
 
here's one froma bbc report.. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/2694885.stm

US diplomat James Akins served in the Baghdad Embassy at the time.

"I knew all the Ba'ath Party leaders and I liked them," he told me.

"The CIA were definitely involved in that coup. We saw the rise of the Ba'athists as a way of replacing a pro-Soviet government with a pro-American one and you don't get that chance very often.

"Sure, some people were rounded up and shot but these were mostly communists so that didn't bother us".
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I was just reading up on what bush has done to the US economy.

Damn did he fook that one up good and proper!

Clinton was a fine president even though he did get a little head ;)

BTW i didnt get any of my facts from this site but it's still a good little game(if a little biased)
http://www.emogame.com/bushgame.html
 
Bush isn't a 'yes' president like kerry is. kerry is the type of person who changes his views based upon what type of people he's currently in the company of :(
 
I prefer a guy who changes his mind to a liar

it hardly matters...they are both cut from the same mold
 
DarkStar said:
All these links you guys are giving are from some pretty small/unknown/biased sources...Get some BBC, New York Times, or CNN links and I'll start believeing stuff. I don't think the US put Saddam into power, but there's absolutely no question that we supported the man in his war with Iran.
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You will not find historical analyses in the news. They are way too busy with current events and factual accounts. It is the historian's purpose to takes these events and facts to craft them into a broader spectrum. You will not find a one-hit headline saying "CIA HELPS SADDAM INTO POWER" any more than finding a headline like "WAR ON IRAQ A QUAGMIRE".
But if you're still interested, dig in
 
Lil' Timmy said:
that's completely beside the point. i'm an american. it is my civic and ethical duty to demand responsible behavior from my government.. i'm not a citizen of any other country.

every thinking person in this country knew that this war was a mistake (at best), and the simple-mindedness/short-sightedness of this administration just ****ed it up like we all said they would anyways.
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Should you be blaming the adminstration or the government?

Contrary to what people like to belive, I highly doubt Bush wanted to go to war and have him known as the war monger president. He was simply reacting to what the American public wanted (more safety in the world) and the flaws of the government (in this case faulty intelligence).

If this intelligence would have been correct, people would have hailed Bush as a hero who prevented WMD from being launched. Alas, it wasn't and we have Bush being painted as a scapegoat. It is really upto your political ideaoligies if Bush should be blamed. The important thing to remember is that the US did screw up. How that blame is appropriated is up to you.

CptStern - If you are linking to a timeline (in this case refering to CIA atrocities) your sourcse better have more footnotes and/or sources if you want me to believe them. The article may or may not be true, but they need to show more evidence then what the article gave.
 
^Ben said:
I was just reading up on what bush has done to the US economy.

Damn did he fook that one up good and proper!

Clinton was a fine president even though he did get a little head ;)

BTW i didnt get any of my facts from this site but it's still a good little game(if a little biased)
http://www.emogame.com/bushgame.html
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roflmao :LOL:
 
CptStern said:
yes he did

months before he was even elected

blahblahblah ...all of those events are highly documented...I'm doing your homework for you
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Have you ever heard of a "contingency plan"? Do you not think that Kerry has the same plans already drawn up? "What if scenarios" are commonly used in the business world to help plan and prepare for unforseen circumstances.

I am wiling to bet a $100 that Bush has a contingency plan to take out North Korea. Just because the plan exists doesn't mean he will use it.

CptStern - If you could design your own government, how would you design it ? It seems to me that you want a highly socialistic country with an extreme foreign policy of isolationism.
 
Lil' Timmy said:
lol, that's the most awesome game ever!!!! haha.. voltron! ha.. dman..

EDIT! dude.. that game deserves it's own thread.. it's freaking awesome!
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i know. **** hl2. this game RULES.
 
As a European and someone who doesnt choose ANY sides, i believe that this last iraq-war was nothing more then a personal war of the bush-generation. Right after the 9-11 attack Bush included the name Saddam Hussein in his speeches while everybody still didnt know what the f*ck was going on. He was just looking for a reason to attack iraq, and found the 9-11 a very good reason. His farther also had war with Saddam, so this was nothing more then a personal war between the leaders. I found Bush sometimes so childish, even when i look at his speeches on tv, im always like: man this guy is full of sh*t. His face expressions ( or however you type that ) looks like a small spoiled kid. Its bassicly like: little_Bush: "he dad, can i attack iraq now?" , dad_Bush: " sure son, get that scumback ".

Now that the war is over, iraq is in more sh*t as ever, all those innocent people getting slaughtered, why? Ok some people are crazy, but you have to look deeper then that. Why are they crazy? Because some weird country comes into their homeland and start to take over the place with no aproval ( again however you type that ) of the UN.

It was a illegal war, and i also believe its all for the oil. And they kept saying that Iraq would have mass destructive weapons, was bull sh*t in the first place. They knew that Iraq didnt have anything like that. They just tryed to mis guide the UN and so they would be allowed to attack Iraq. Their plan failed, and they acted like little childs and did something that wasnt allowed.

I dont dislike American people, in fact, i want to meet as many Americans as possible. As any other foreign country. But the goverment of America is corrupted and it sucks.
 
damn you guys stop posting games that I cant play at work ...you're going to get me fired
 
CptStern said:
I prefer a guy who changes his mind to a liar

it hardly matters...they are both cut from the same mold
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Umm, he IS lying. He has a certain view on matters... but he lies to people depending on who he's talking to. He's a yesman. He'll say anything to appease the audience he's currently speaking to, whereas bush speaks of his agenda up front.
 
Raziaar said:
Umm, he IS lying. He has a certain view on matters... but he lies to people depending on who he's talking to. He's a yesman. He'll say anything to appease the audience he's currently speaking to, whereas bush speaks of his agenda up front.
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like when he said this:

"Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons."

George W. Bush September 12, 2002

"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent."

George W. Bush January 28, 2003

"We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have."

George Bush February 8, 2003

"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."

George Bush March 18, 2003
 
Those quotes are relating to the faulty intelligence he had. Blame the CIA, not president Bush.

In order to lie, you must purposefully tell us something that is not true. Bush was using faulty intelligence. In order for him to lie, he would have had to believe that WMD did not exist in Iraq.
 
blahblahblah said:
Those quotes are relating to the faulty intelligence he had. Blame the CIA, not president Bush.

In order to lie, you must purposefully tell us something that is not true. Bush was using faulty intelligence. In order for him to lie, he would have had to believe that WMD did not exist in Iraq.
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The buck stops at the Oval Office, not at the Pentagon.
 
You say he thinks everything is a conspiracy... you think everything ever said about bush administration that was bad, is true. You're following blindly in alot of things, just like I am likely as well.
 
what did you expect? they lied to the american people about saddam ...yes it was a lie...if the world knew saddam didnt have WMD how could the cia not know?

I dont blindly follow anything, I let the facts speak for themselves
 
if the world knew saddam didnt have WMD how could the cia not know?
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The world 'did not' know. They only assumed. To assume, is to make an ass out of you and me :-P Sorry, had to say it. heh heh.

EDIT: Here's an idea. Let's all agree to disagee on all politics and religious discussions on these boards. No amount of arguing and debating will ever sway any of our views. But, the forums won't be as much fun without these heated discussions :-P
 
assume? who assumed? everybody knew that saddam didnt have the resources to build WMD ..the US had them on a very tight leash ...how where they going to import the resources to build everything if the US/UN had a tight lid on who entered/left Iraq. After the first gulf war, saddam's forces were so delpeted that even US intelligence said they would be surprised if he ever recouped his losses
 
Javert said:
The buck stops at the Oval Office, not at the Pentagon.
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Perhaps you should read some of my previous posts. I said that you claim blame whoever you want, the US government made a mistake. You cannot blame anyone person for this.

CptStern said:
sigh ...you think everything is a conspiracy
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sigh...you think Bush is the devil incarnate ;)

CptStern said:
what did you expect? they lied to the american people about saddam ...yes it was a lie...if the world knew saddam didnt have WMD how could the cia not know?
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Absolute knowledge is unattainable and people are bound to make mistakes since nobody has absolute knowledge. How did the world not know saddam didn't have WMD? If you look at his past track record, he seems like the perfect madman to attain and use WMD.

CptStern said:
I dont blindly follow anything, I let the facts speak for themselves
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Yes, you do. I follow somethings blindly too, that is human nature.

Facts can be interpretated in more than one way.
 
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