No spectular political outrage here.

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W4d5Y

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No, this isn't any news about any event if that intentionally lame-sounding headline should have intrigued you and served as a pretext for you to open this thread up.

I just want to point this out:
Regarding some discrepancies I had with other people here on the forum, regarding certain extreme events that had occured in western US a little more than six years ago,
I just got to...persuade a classmate of mine to accept certain moronic views I share with probably, like, 2% of this forum's populace?

A hint: No, he is certainly not a moron, he is expirienced in informatics, has a cute girlfriend, and an IQ of about 132, if I remember quite correct.

So did my brother, who has an IQ of 154, and, judging by his success in school, certainly is not the dumbest person on this planet to share my views.

Not all of them, but regarding the core content, we have the same thoughts.


Now, I have an IQ quotient of "something over 130" (that's what a test actually spit out, I cannot confirm how accurate that is), although I suffer a bit at my grades for my lack of educational effort, which I basically swopped for conspiracy theories and their refutation.

On of my favourite, despite oldest, conspiracy theories is the intentional destruction of the world trade center's intentional destruction by "some not further defined insider".


And so far, I haven't heard anything from anybody here to actually convince me, that the firemen who felt a hot rush of air knocking their helmets off while they stood in a stairwell in one of the towers during its own collapse.

Point is: Even if NIST would disproove their conclusion that the fires in the towers were merely hotter than 250? celsius at some peak locations,
this doesn't conclude their couldn't have been "secondary devices", which the police and fire departments suspected to be placed in the buildings that day.


I am not somebody who stares at grainy, WTC-collapse footage over and over again up to a point where he concludes he saw something suspicious, which -undoubtedly- prooved their were bombs planted in the building.


Now, what I do is listen to the firemen, those, who even today, due to the lies of the EPA, had and still have to suffer from 9/11 even today, in form of lung-deseases.

What they say is shocking, to say the least.
And in this occasion, NIST nor 911myths will help those, who understandably are positioned on the skeptic side regarding the case for government complicity, debunk these numerous quotes.

I tried to inform the public by offering that information and let everybody evaluate that again, because after six years of commented conspiracy theory movies, most are saturated with this "kind of nonsense".

Thus, they will be hindered in a possible effort to look for further information that would surface and become publicly available with the time.

This is the kind of information that I share with them, and that prisonplanet shares with them (alongside a whole lot of advertisments, to be honest) but which will sink in the widths of the internet, because there will be nobody to take care of it and add it to general public knowledge.

And no, popular mechanics won't be exactely the ones who will tell you about compelling witness accounts, which will instantly, directly proportional to the incredibility of their content, be deemed false.

Because if they were accepted as true, the debunkers would face a serious problem to debunk those statements.

And no, 911myths has by far not covered all the explosion and bomb accounts by civilian witnesses (which of course also heard explosions, which were unquestionably due to other non-explosive origins) and professional firefighters reported.


And what I never heard of from any debunker was, what his interpretation of "the orders" was, that Dick Cheney had confirmed to be still in place from the presidential emergency bunker, by the time that he was made aware that a plane was closing into washington and "50 miles out". That account was initially made by transportation ministre Norman Mineta in front of the congressional 9/11 hearing.
 
This is your 4th 911 conspiracy thread in the last week, two of which have been locked. Have you noticed a trend? ENOUGH ALREADY!!!
 
Ask an good architect.

Ask an good engineer.

Ask a good metallurgist.

Ask a good WELDER.



They will all tell you that secondary explosions were not required to take down the twin towers.
 
Ask a good psychiatrist.


He will tell you that you're delusional. You're so convinced in everyone else being wrong regardless of what they say, that you don't even have the good grace anymore to examine how less than paper-thin your own arguments are. As for a lack of political outrage, how about being outraged about something that actually matters like poverty, war, murder, education, health, etc. than being 'outraged' by the 'great Zionist Neo-con conspiracy of 9/11'.
 
Mods, please, ban this idiot. Please. All he is doing is trolling.
 
NNo, he is certainly not a moron, he is expirienced in informatics, has a cute girlfriend, and an IQ of about 132, if I remember quite correct.

What does that have to do with anything?
 
Seriously. Good trolls know when to take a breather now and then. But this is just an endless stream of crap and it's just getting tiresome.
 
Every time you advocate a conspiracy theory, it's a proverbial spit wad in the faces of the dead. And no, you're not "finding the real killers", you're being an asshole. Period.

And the whole IQ stuff: Bullshit. Just because you have a high IQ... Do the math.
 
Your fancy IQ numbers mean nothing by the way. I personally have at least a mensa-level IQ but in various areas I am a blithering idiot.
 
Now, I have an IQ quotient of "something over 130"

You have an intelligence quotient quotient of over 130?

Gotta love it when people try to sound intelligent but fail miserably.
 
I'll listen to him when he gives me a definition of "Spectular"

oh wait...
 
The possession of an alleged high IQ does not preclude the possibility of one being a nut.
 
The problem is you've already decided it's a conspiracy, there is no way to convince you otherwise.
 
Okay, alright, I fail miserably at sounding well-educated, intelligent or at least not excrutiatingly dumb.
Maybe because english is not my mothertongue.

Anyway, I make the assumption that "911 was an inside job" because events engulfing this day are just too weird.

And there simply is a lot of points that the debunkers' faction will never discuss, maybe because they can't.

And don't expect the NIST to tell you the truth, because they can't.

Their conclusion has no credibility because they exclude unbiased analysis.
They can't just blurt out "holy shit, those loose change ****s were right", because that is not their purpose.

The 9/11 comission has the same task as the warren comission investigating Kennedy's murder: To convince the people of the government's account of a case.

Comissioner Warren was asked by LBJ to proove LHO was the lone gunman, to prevent an escalation of the Cuba-conflict.

And the 9/11 comission could succeede in a similiar matter, they are not as alleged an independent investigation; most of the members are republicans and were selected by the president himself.

Some of them have complained about the obstruction of their work and resigned for exactely that reason, have even concidered to take legal action against federal departments due to false accounts.


It's not the task to prove the conspiracy theories are false, it is the general debunkers' task to prove the official conspiracy theory is true, no matter what.

Could even imagine popular mechanics would accept that they didn't cover all of the "9/11 lies'" topics and therefore can't conclusively prove there is no indication the government was in fact complicit!?



And for the experts' accounts, the unneccessity of remote charges, if such indeed did exist, which I can't claim to know, doesn't exclude their possible existence.

Those charges would have been in place to ensure the collapse of the world trade towers, you wouldn't leave that job to one plane and 20-minutes long office fires.

That's an advantage the conspiracy theory has over the official explanation:
If it is proved the three world trade center buildings couldn't have been collapsed on themselves (and the plane, of course), then there's the need to rethink the idea that there couldn't possibly have other third party involvement in the collapse after the terrorists had done their jobs.

If it's proved, by an independent investigation, that the world trade towers were in fact not structurally stable and that their collapse was likely to occure, then this does not exclude that secondary devices could have been in place.

Because even if the towers had been able to collapse on themselves, charges could have been in place as an insurance of their collapse anyway.

Now, apart from physical fallacies regarding the collapses of 1, 2 and 7...
It would be necessary to disprove the possibility of third party involvement by debunking indication of secondary devices, of whatever nature they might be, or at least explain the phenomena regarding the firemens' quotes.
The explosion accounts.
Some of which have been explained, while others -indeed- have not.

I just recently faced an explanation by a skeptic, which was much more inlogical then any of the conspiracy theories that I pursue.
 
Ask an good architect.

Ask an good engineer.

Ask a good metallurgist.

Ask a good WELDER.



They will all tell you that secondary explosions were not required to take down the twin towers.


sorry but an architect doesn't know shit.
 
If it is proved the three world trade center buildings couldn't have been collapsed on themselves (and the plane, of course), then there's the need to rethink the idea that there couldn't possibly have other third party involvement in the collapse after the terrorists had done their jobs.

If it's proved, by an independent investigation, that the world trade towers were in fact not structurally stable and that their collapse was likely to occure, then this does not exclude that secondary devices could have been in place.

Because even if the towers had been able to collapse on themselves, charges could have been in place as an insurance of their collapse anyway.
In other words, nothing can disprove the existence of "secondary devices".
I think you need to understand the concept of Falsifiability.
 
No, I didn't say that was infalsifiable, only that no one has ever honestly attempted to debunk *all* of them. Especially the more intriguing ones.
What you believe is, that conspiracy theories are made debunk-proof by refusing to live up to the challenge of the burden of proof while demanding counter-arguments by others instead.

Well, I gave you something to debunk: Explain how that fireball that errupted from one of the basements was created during the collapse of one of the towers (damnit, why can't I just remember which one), which those firemen felt, who would survive the collapse.
What was Cheney talking about when he referred to "the orders", back in the presidential emergency bunker, which had been tracking "a plane" which was 50 miles off washington at that time.
(another point why the theory that without their transponders on, the planes were undetectable is total bs)
And why was Bush not evacuated from that stupid school for an entire half of an hour?
And even if a chair either from flight 11 or 175 could survive the impact of that plane in the world trade center, I still have my sorts of...doubts that mohammad atta's passport could have slipped out of his pocket, somehow disembark the crashing plane, escape a massive fireball and fall straight onto the next street to be picked up by a policeman.
And last but not least, Dick Cheney himself admitted that "somebody missed to put the pieces together" to prevent those attacks...
Also, they sure did have a clue about what was going to happen, after all the director of the CIA was informed that this had "bin laden's fingerprints all over it", by the time flight 11 crashed. That was at a time where everybody else claimed this was an accident.
Not that this would prove the government's complicity, it is only worth mentioning that sometimes you really ought to be incarcerated for believing the official account.
one might claim that there are little green men without saying when or where, and furthermore that their existence is kept secret by a conspiracy.
Uhm, that would be the analogue to russel's teapot. Which is entirely different from what I try to express.

some stuff which is totally uninteressting:
http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/2007/LeggeVerticalCollapseWTC7_6.pdf

about experts' opinions against the official account, visit 911proof or patriots for 911 truth, I propose you do that because they have a lot of architects there, even demolition experts who will tell you quite explicitely that they believe the towers fell in a manner that could only be explained by controlled demolitions.

By the way, did you ever realize the roof emergency exits were locked on 9/11 and that people from the south tower were discouraged to evacuate the building by PA announcements while a plane crashed right frigging next to them???
 
You're walking in circles - Each time you post, you post a new nutjob site. When that's rebuked, you find technicalities that were not mentioned and move on to another one... If you wanna look at this another way, for example, let's prove that these people are assholes. Look at the various websites' names: "911truth", "911proof", "911studies"... All ****ing pompous cocks - The research of others is not "proof" or "truth", because it does not subscribe to their paranoid delusional bullshit. You might think of this as something negligible, but it's very indicative of the mindset that we are facing here - "We are right, everything you say is a lie because you are the government." - They'll even discard the 9/11 commission. And no, it's not right wing. They'll discard their thorough research simply because it doesn't fit their agenda. And yes, it's an agenda.
 
You're walking in circles - Each time you post, you post a new nutjob site. When that's rebuked, you find technicalities that were not mentioned and move on to another one... If you wanna look at this another way, for example, let's prove that these people are assholes. Look at the various websites' names: "911truth", "911proof", "911studies"... All ****ing pompous cocks - The research of others is not "proof" or "truth", because it does not subscribe to their paranoid delusional bullshit. You might think of this as something negligible, but it's very indicative of the mindset that we are facing here - "We are right, everything you say is a lie because you are the government." - They'll even discard the 9/11 commission. And no, it's not right wing. They'll discard their thorough research simply because it doesn't fit their agenda. And yes, it's an agenda.

.

char.
 
I never thought I would see a political post by Nemesis that I actually agreed wholeheartedly with :O
 
Wall of rambling text crits you for 1928 spectular damage.
You cast Close Browser (rank I).
 
No, I didn't say that was infalsifiable, only that no one has ever honestly attempted to debunk *all* of them. Especially the more intriguing ones.
What you believe is, that conspiracy theories are made debunk-proof by refusing to live up to the challenge of the burden of proof while demanding counter-arguments by others instead.

Well, I gave you something to debunk: Explain how that fireball that errupted from one of the basements was created during the collapse of one of the towers (damnit, why can't I just remember which one), which those firemen felt, who would survive the collapse.
What was Cheney talking about when he referred to "the orders", back in the presidential emergency bunker, which had been tracking "a plane" which was 50 miles off washington at that time.
(another point why the theory that without their transponders on, the planes were undetectable is total bs)
And why was Bush not evacuated from that stupid school for an entire half of an hour?
And even if a chair either from flight 11 or 175 could survive the impact of that plane in the world trade center, I still have my sorts of...doubts that mohammad atta's passport could have slipped out of his pocket, somehow disembark the crashing plane, escape a massive fireball and fall straight onto the next street to be picked up by a policeman.
And last but not least, Dick Cheney himself admitted that "somebody missed to put the pieces together" to prevent those attacks...
Also, they sure did have a clue about what was going to happen, after all the director of the CIA was informed that this had "bin laden's fingerprints all over it", by the time flight 11 crashed. That was at a time where everybody else claimed this was an accident.
Not that this would prove the government's complicity, it is only worth mentioning that sometimes you really ought to be incarcerated for believing the official account.

Uhm, that would be the analogue to russel's teapot. Which is entirely different from what I try to express.

some stuff which is totally uninteressting:
http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/2007/LeggeVerticalCollapseWTC7_6.pdf

about experts' opinions against the official account, visit 911proof or patriots for 911 truth, I propose you do that because they have a lot of architects there, even demolition experts who will tell you quite explicitely that they believe the towers fell in a manner that could only be explained by controlled demolitions.

By the way, did you ever realize the roof emergency exits were locked on 9/11 and that people from the south tower were discouraged to evacuate the building by PA announcements while a plane crashed right frigging next to them???

You're not posting sources just saying vague bullshit. For ever vague fireball example you need to describe what happened, provide a reputable source describing it then explain how the conventional explanation for the collapse cannot explain this. Do this a lot, if your claims stand, then you can think about an alternate theory.
 
Okay, I just right now lost A COMPLETE FRICKEN POST because had a sloppy aiming and just closed the window before I could post anything.
Now, I'll get this short.
I wanted to say a ****load of things, all of which probably don't matter to you anyway.
Now, I tried compiling a huge list of explosion-accounts, most of which I already had pointed out in the past, and since I'm TIRED from reworking this whole post again, which I had NEEDED APPROXIMATELY HALF AN HOUR OF WRITING for, I'll give you this link:
http://911proof.com/11.html

Now, please, for the love of god, just damn read through the comments, you have all the excerpts there, all the names, all the page listings and all the sources.

JUST FRIGGING TAKE THEM AND DON'T GIVE ME SUCH A LAME EXCUSE THAT YOU COULDN'T SIMPLY BECAUSE OF WHAT TITLE THE AUTHOR OF THE SITE CHOSE FOR IT.

I tried to be nice, I tried to give you a complete compilation of everything I know, a compilation of every comment, quoted from hundred-pages long credential reports by paramedics, policemen and firefighters, with names, with links, and the exact location of the excerpt.

However, I failed.

Because I just destroyed an amount of work, worth half an hour of continual writing.

And I am f*cking annoyed by that.

IhateitIhateitIhateit.

Anyway, I gave you a site, the content of which only is excerpts and source descriptions from other internet resources.

Now, don't think about it being an agenda-mongering site, but a simple nice compilation of everything that the debunkers will never tell you.
 
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