Normal map testing

[softmonkey]

Here is a normal map test. 8118 triangles

Model and animation by The Refinery http://www.refinery.co.za - Thanks Guys!

Textures and normal mapping by me

 

[SidewinderX]

it looks good from all the detail we cna see (ie not much).

throw a light closwer to the face, and show us a more upclose part of the body.

 

[eddie500]

yeah, looks cool tho will look even better close up

 

[The Dark Elf]

I can see the normal maps working perfectly on it. Guys, look at the edges of the model, its pretty low poly, the normal map is making a big difference, especially on the chest/underside area and neck. Those look normal mapped. The way the light across it moves around smoothly instead of stuttery is likely also down to the normal map.

Gonna sticky this if thats ok Softmonkey, might help some people see how important/useful they are.

Oh yeah, and it looks like its directly in the viewport too, XSI can show normal maps in realtime, a lot of 3D apps can't do that properly, in realtime atleast.

 

[softmonkey]

You can download a vid on how it was done HERE (100 MB - cos I suck at compression)

 

[softmonkey]

Gonna sticky this if thats ok Softmonkey, might help some people see how important/useful they are

Thanks

Oh yeah, and it looks like its directly in the viewport too, XSI can show normal maps in realtime, a lot of 3D apps can't do that properly, in realtime atleast.

Yeah - all in the viewport using Cg although it could easily be DirectX

And here are some more pics for those who don't wanna download the video:
Original hi-resolution mesh comes in at 32,000 triangles. Created using sub-d modelling in XSI.

Rendered with mental ray. Shader built from about 10 small textures all layered in XSI, modulated via weight maps and fractals. No Photoshop!

The low resolution mesh for applying the normal map.

Tangent normal map from mental ray

The result :afro:

 

[Brian Damage]

's damn hot!

Oh, the possibilities...

 

[nutcrackr]

Heard of a game called Far Cry? Get those dinosaurs in the game ASAP
Looks good btw.

 

[softmonkey]

Heard of a game called Far Cry? Get those dinosaurs in the game ASAP
Looks good btw.

Can't - not my model.
This is more about technique and testing some new tools.

 

[!-fgdf-!]

Yeah - all in the viewport using Cg although it could easily be DirectX

I can't see such an option in XSI EXP for HL2 :/

 

[softmonkey]

I can't see such an option in XSI EXP for HL2 :/

True. The viewport mode you want is Realtime shaders. Then depending on whether you have Cg or DX nodes on the material it will draw those.

 

[desty]

Can we use this on half life 2 characters? looks great.

desty

 

[SidewinderX]

Can we use this on half life 2 characters? looks great.

desty

yes.



and for those max users, discreet released an unsupported plugin for 5.x that lets you see them in the viewports, as long as you're in dx mode. (you change under customize>preferences (or mybe it's UI) search for it at maxplugins.de

 

[Ti133700N]

This is another example of normal maps. It's a sword I made for my MOD (I posted pictures of it before in another thread but it wasn't normal mapped). I used the MetalBump option for the viewports in MAX.

The first two pics show the sword textured only.

Those are normal mapped :

And this is the resized normal map:

 

[Triggerhappy41]

wow the low poly, normal mapped version looks better than the original high poly mesh. Did you insert additional detals or do normal maps just look better?

 

[Epyon]

This is another example of normal maps. It's a sword I made for my MOD (I posted pictures of it before in another thread but it wasn't normal mapped). I used the MetalBump option for the viewports in MAX.

What did you use to make the normal maps? ORB?

 

[eddie500]

lol @ softmonkey, scary scary dino (on the vid btw) thats a v.nice tut :bounce: might have to have a look at XSI again

 

[oldfaq]

hahah awsome man, do you work on any mods :naughty: heh, becuase you could help make an amazing mod man? I am currently working on one that could use someone experienced in normal mapping hahha, I doubt you will want to but check out http://www.shadow-phoenix.com email or pm me if you'd like... [email protected]
oldfaq

and btw, the render looks amazing, great job, and did you create all of te maps inside of XSI?

 

[Jeremy]

Here's another example of normalmapping

(For Insurgency)
5,500 polys

Question, what program is being used to preview the normalmap on the model w/ the lighting and such you have going there?

 

[The Dark Elf]

Softimage XSI

 

[eddie500]

i know that XSI is really cool and it has a list of features longer than my arm, but why does hardly anyone use it? (apart from valve ) i mean i've just been looking around the cgtalk forums and i have yet to find one model on there done with XSI? :| I really wanna get into it but it looks alot harder, at the mo i use 3ds max like 90% of the other modelers. :monkee:

 

[The Dark Elf]

i know that XSI is really cool and it has a list of features longer than my arm, but why does hardly anyone use it? (apart from valve ) i mean i've just been looking around the cgtalk forums and i have to find one model on there done with XSI? :| I really wanna get into it but it looks alot harder, at the mo i use 3ds max like 90% of the other modelers. :monkee:

XSI is a professional tool. It's only very recently finding its way into semi pro hands and with HL2 EXP hobbiest hands. Before that it was studios pretty much only.

Only reason I have it was I owned a studio and we bought licences of it a while ago and thats when I got mine.

So yeah thats probably it. It's used a heck of a lot, though you'll find a lot more Softimage|3D users knocking about, even though its older its still very popular.

 

[Ti133700N]

What did you use to make the normal maps? ORB?

Yes I used ORB. It was my first try at normal mapping and I realise I didn't set all the smoothing groups correctly. Another thing I have noticed is that if you have a flat surface (or not many polys in an ara) and you try to make that area very smooth with the normal map, it won't look right. You have to set a proper amount of details on the low poly model to make the normal mapped model looks alright.

There is something I want to clarify. To generate the normal map correctly you need to:
- Create a low poly model
- Unwrap the low poly model (and make a texture)
- Set the smoothing groups correctly on the low poly model
- Create a high poly version of your model
- Set the smoothing groups correctly on the high poly model
- Generate the Normal Map
- Apply the normal map to your low poly model

Notice that you don't need to Unwrap the hight poly version (edit UVs) but you need to set the smoothing groups correctly for both versions of your model.

 

[The Dark Elf]

I prefer working on the high poly model first.

 

[Ti133700N]

I prefer working on the high poly model first.

Do you start the low poly version from scratch or you remove all the unnecesary details on the high poly version?

 

[!-fgdf-!]

Normal mapping rocks.Yeah here's my example .I hope that results in source engine will be similiar to what I achived in XSI

without

with

 

[SidewinderX]

wow, that looks pretty good. light it a bit breighter too

 

[The Dark Elf]

Do you start the low poly version from scratch or you remove all the unnecesary details on the high poly version?

low poly from scratch. So there's two entirely unique models, I prefer doing that, then I can make sure the polygons are exactly where I want them (things lke joints that need careful attention) Removing polys from a high poly version would end up taking much longer and in most cases end up having to have polygons added, moved about, repair broken polys.. Ends up easier to use the high poly version as a 3D template/reference in a background layer while working on the low poly version in the current layer.

 

[!-fgdf-!]

I made my normal maps first making a low poly model and unwrapping it Next I smoothed it and after sculpture I generated bump-map and then converted it to normal (nvidia's plugin)
So the model you see is less than 2900 tris when the hipoly version from which I created was about 45000

 

[softmonkey]

low poly from scratch. So there's two entirely unique models, I prefer doing that, then I can make sure the polygons are exactly where I want them (things lke joints that need careful attention) Removing polys from a high poly version would end up taking much longer and in most cases end up having to have polygons added, moved about, repair broken polys.. Ends up easier to use the high poly version as a 3D template/reference in a background layer while working on the low poly version in the current layer.

This is the same technique I use on mine as well. This works very well if you turn on snap to face when drawing a mesh, E.g.

1. get your high res mesh and turn on snapping to faces. make sure you have baked any subdivision in using edit>Duplicate with subdivision

2. Create a new layer for your low resolution mesh. Start drawing a new mesh - poly by poly (press n in XSI). I find this the best technique for controlling how the mesh will work with animation - and suprisingly quick.

 

[Sparta]

Any chance someone could make a tutorial on normal mapping for us beginners?

 

[The Dark Elf]

This is the same technique I use on mine as well. This works very well if you turn on snap to face when drawing a mesh, E.g.

1. get your high res mesh and turn on snapping to faces. make sure you have baked any subdivision in using edit>Duplicate with subdivision

2. Create a new layer for your low resolution mesh. Start drawing a new mesh - poly by poly (press n in XSI). I find this the best technique for controlling how the mesh will work with animation - and suprisingly quick.

Damn, i've been doing that method for ages and never realised I could use snap to face for it lol. Got so used to lightwave's mediocre snap features that I keep forgetting Softimage has really good snap support

Cheers for the heads up, you've probably saved me days of extra work

 

[Sparta]

Damn, i've been doing that method for ages and never realised I could use snap to face for it lol. Got so used to lightwave's mediocre snap features that I keep forgetting Softimage has really good snap support

Cheers for the heads up, you've probably saved me days of extra work

How do you go about making normal maps in lightwave? I've tried looking for tutorials on how to do it but i can only get tutorials for bump-maps and not normal maps

 

[The Dark Elf]

How do you go about making normal maps in lightwave? I've tried looking for tutorials on how to do it but i can only get tutorials for bump-maps and not normal maps

http://www.evasion3d.com/mw_intro.html

Makes life easier

 

[Lupus]

Does anyone have decent instructions on how to make, apply and view normal maps in a non-mainstream program, eg. Blender? I have had a look at ORB, but I can't find good instructions for it, and stuff like 'tutorial' section on the site doesn't work.

 

[The Dark Elf]

Does anyone have decent instructions on how to make, apply and view normal maps in a non-mainstream program, eg. Blender? I have had a look at ORB, but I can't find good instructions for it, and stuff like 'tutorial' section on the site doesn't work.

you could try this one, its for cinema4D though

http://members.shaw.ca/jimht03/normal.html

but I think it explains how to do it in a none plugin/native way. I think its page 3 that shows how to do that. I don't know what controls Blender has for such things, but atleast for wall textures, it should just be a simple case of either using specially setup gradient maps, or lighting to get the correct effect.. acutal models though, your gonna need something more.

 

[Lupus]

I'm realling looking more for a program that can show a final render of a normal mapped character. Blender is fine for modelling, so I'm good there, I can use ATI normal mapper thing to create the actual normal map, but it is the applying and viewing the final result that is the problem

I think ORB can do it, but I'm not sure since I can't even find good (basic hehe) instructions on how to use it.

 

[The Dark Elf]

I'm realling looking more for a program that can show a final render of a normal mapped character. Blender is fine for modelling, so I'm good there, I can use ATI normal mapper thing to create the actual normal map, but it is the applying and viewing the final result that is the problem

I think ORB can do it, but I'm not sure since I can't even find good (basic hehe) instructions on how to use it.

Just download Softimage XSI EXP then. That should do it.

 

[theGreenBunny]

I'm realling looking more for a program that can show a final render of a normal mapped character. Blender is fine for modelling, so I'm good there, I can use ATI normal mapper thing to create the actual normal map, but it is the applying and viewing the final result that is the problem

I think ORB can do it, but I'm not sure since I can't even find good (basic hehe) instructions on how to use it.

The ATI normal mapper tool comes with a program called NMFView.exe, it asks you for the location of the model and the normal map, and displays them in a realtime viewer. You can cycle through the view modes (with normal map, without map, etc) with the 'a' button and rotate the view with the mouse buttons.

 

[Kipper]

Softmonkey U RULE!!!!