Normal Mapping Help

[IchI]

Hey, I have created 2 models. One high polgon and the other Low polgon. I have got to the point I now need to collect the high resolution data and apply it to the low one. But how do I actually do this? I mean... whats the theory behind it, there seems to be many methods but I can't find one I can actually get to work properly.

I am not really bothered which application I have to use but I need a good method to actually get this done, has anyone got any good tutorials or help they can direct me to? Remember I am only wanting high res to low res, not actually painting normal maps or the theory. I have read it all before

Thanks.

 

[FictiousWill]

There's a neat little free app that will do it for you, called ORB. I can't seem to find the website for it though :/

I found this page: http://sv3.3dbuzz.com/vbforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77037
Perhaps it's helpful.

I've used orb in the past, it works well. I wrote a tutorial for it too but I'll be damned if I can find it!

 

[switch]

Try out NormalMapper, one of ATI's tools. http://ati.com/developer/tools.html

There is a plugin for 3DS Max there too which looks useful.

I am not an experienced modeler, but I have used this program a few times in the past with good results. I do not know if it is the best but it is simple to use and seems to get the job done. A good place to start at least.

 

[Ti133700N]

I now use 3dsmax7. It can generate normal maps with the render to texture option. Open your low res model, import the high res version. Place is right on the low poly model. Apply the push modifier to make the model grow. Up the value until the high res version englobes all the low res model. Click on render to texture, select normal map, select the size of the texture (512x512 for exemple) and mess with the other options. Select the output (sword_normal.tja for example). Click on the render button. The normal map will be generated and saved in the file you specified as the output.

 

[thereisaspoon]

orb is a very good app, but if u have 3dsmax 7 u can use that, its much better. also note u needto uv the low one without any mirroring geometry.

 

[SidewinderX]

the key is that they have to have like UVs... I'm not so experienced with normal mapping personally, but you have to match the UVs up.

 

[Short_Fuse]

UV's dont need to match. If they do the program is bolloks.

I do normal mappping at work so i might be able to help you to some degree. But because i've signed an nda (non-disclosure agreement) i cant release all our little secrets

Normal mapping isnt easy man, best place to start is to learn everything about normals how faces in 3d space are built fundamental crap you usually over look. Helps a lot in the long run.

Gimmi a pm and i'll try help you out as much as i can.

 

[IchI]

Hmmmmm, I will try the 3dsmax7 method, before I was using the projection modifier in 3dsmax7 and it kinda sucked. I can render the normal maps fine its just getting them to actually align up. I am confused by which stage it takes and what I do and don't need to do. Someone said you don't even need to Unwrap the High polgon mesh, is this true? if it is then thank god for that

 

[Epyon]

Someone said you don't even need to Unwrap the High polgon mesh, is this true? if it is then thank god for that

You don't need to unwrap the high poly, just low.

 

[thereisaspoon]

lol, normal mapping is piss ez. Process is ez as hell. U need 2 models, one higih poly one low, then u need to unwrap the low poly so all the uvs do not mirror eachother, then you simply use a utility to bake in the normals. orb is straightforward, but 3dsmax7 offers more control. Optimization is the only hard part, and it aint that hard anyways.

what do you mean to align? when you use projection modifier u can move the cage verts around. u got a screenshot or something

 

[Short_Fuse]

Uvs can be mirrored, using tangent space. Object or World space you cant mirror. Object spaces normal maps incode all three xyz co-ordinates there for over laying normals is not possible. If the faces are facing the same direction and wont deform then sure why not . Tangent space only has 2 co ordinates in the normal map the third is takin from the faces normal direction. This is when smoothing groups normals editing becomes important and this is where it gets slightly technical. So that means you can mirror and deform tangent space maps.

 

[Ti133700N]

You don't need to unwrap the high poly, just low.

I confirm that

 

[IchI]

Ye thanks for all your help. I will get back to you on how it goes because as you know Unwraping takes the buscuit

 

[RSX]

Just a tip when normal mapping it, make sure there are no hard edges on your model, and that you only have 1 smoothing group applied to the model.

ATI Normal Mapper is good, if you have a copy of doom 3, then this as a built in normal mapping program and u can use that.

 

[HatRabit]

in 3d7 as far as I know the high and low poly have to be nearly the same or projection will give a horrible result. also whenever you have to fix the cage use the shaded view, it helps alot

 

[Ti133700N]

That's the case with any tools that generate normal maps. To get the best results, your models should be similar. If the normal map is wierd somewhere, add some poly to your low res to match the high res or easier, change the high res. Even if normal maps are more powerfull than bump maps, you should only use it to add details to your low poly models, if you try to add something very different than your low poly model, the result will be really bad.

Oh and something I didn't mention, you don't have to unwrap the high poly model (yes I know I said that but..) YOU HAVE TO SET THE SMOOTHING GROUPS ON BOTH THE LOW RES AND THE RIGH RES!

Hope this helps

 

[Lupus]

Hi, been trying normal mapping and am ready to inflict serious pain upon myself.

I know the theory, how to do it, process etc. but still get problems. I can use ORB, but it crashes if I try a 1024 size map, and the results are a bit...well...rough. It doesn't look very clean (I can uv map properly).

ATI normalmapper. This is a whole different kettle of fish. Whenever I use it the result is an invisible normal map. Either that or only small parts show, which are partially transparent.

Any ideas please? I don't have max or maya (I use blender, which can't yet do normal maps for stuff like this).

 

[evil^milk]

well, i'm a serious n00b at this (since i'm still running on dx7) but i have heard of some nvidia tool, which i think is somewhat like the atinormalmapper. i don't know, you might want to look into the nvidia tool.

 

[Ti133700N]

Orb was working perfectly for me, I don't know why it crashes for you. And you can play with some settings to make it render very precise normal maps (wich takes like 5 times longer to render but at least you get a very good result).

 

[Lupus]

I've tried Nvidia's Melody, but that sometimes doesn't work (like won't load in a model). Orb always crashes for me at 1024x1024, multisampleing or not

Just tried ATI normalmapper with a different mesh, it worked. Then I tried with a different model and all it did was load in the models then say 'normal map created' after a few seconds. So not sure what is going on there.