Now to point a stern finger...

[Fraxture]

Well working for a goverment funded company. I might add that hacking is at the top of the list because it is one of the most concerned methods of terrorism. Any action even though it seems trival, will be followed. Because just individuals are approachable by terrorist, and highly susceptible to bribes. Falcon and the Snowman!

 

[TrueWeltall]

CaveatEmptor: Great post.

For one, CaveatEmptor, when I said my name, I meant my Online name, seeing as i've never seen it registered anywhere else.

Sounds to me you saw too much of a cartoon with swords perhaps?

 

[KaneRobot]

Originally posted by DjBourgeoisie
1. They are not the same.

2. I'm 29, quite grown up thank you.

3. Your a perfect example of the typical person who should keep one's thoughts to themselves instead of openly sharing their useless and utterly pointless thoughts.

If I've ever seen a candidate for "best representative of a typical internet message board post," that is it.

Someone makes a list of points that don't really SAY anything and only serve to argue for the sake of arguing. Then they conclude with some Snidley Whiplash/Dr. Doom-sounding decree like "you are an utterly foolish human, and no match for my superior intellect!"

 

[MindWipe]

I registered just to post here

Wow, this is intressting. I read all the pages now, and it seeems like there's a little hope of finding those who did this.

Just curious: What now? Will there be actions taken by the FBI soon? What will Gabe do next?

Thanks! (No, nobody has to reply, I'm just so DAMN curious)

/MindWipe :bounce:

 

[ConSeannery]

Lets be realistic here.
Nobody will get fully convicted. People hack like they download music. Get with the scene. Hackers don't get caught! Wake up! People don't realize just how many "hackers" there are, how many systems get intruded and hacked every day. hacking is a very tough case to solve - you need so much practically inaccessible evidence that a conviction is almost never reached. to top this off, lack of computer knowledge by bigwig law enforcement causes mass misinterpretation and confusion. the reality - hackers have a very small chance of being caught, which is why hacking is so rampant.

as for this particular intrusion, someone had the resources to build a trojan variant and then deliver it via an unpatched (unknown, 0-day) outlook exploit. He/she then had the time to browse around until they found all the source, then had time to download it. this is where a problem may lie with a hacker...where are you going to download it to without logs showing where it went? well since gabe has no idea and is askign the community for help, it can only be assumed that this smart hacker....had the time to realize what server monitors are logging, and perhaps installed an app to delete logs after he was off their system. there are tons of other variants. logs can be recovered...sometimes. it gets so complicated....looks like the perpetrator will not be caught! where did you put it valve? everything into one folder on c:\sourcecodehere ??

Modern day security measures against intrusions is a JOKE. Lets say you have 9999999 firewalls installed. guess what. port80 is open so you can browse the web. ports relating to email are open so you can read email. ports are open so you can access your office network. why not set the trojan connect to one of those open ports? hmm? hows that gonna be blocked by a firewall? this isnt a difficult concept people! the only solution is a system holding the source that is innaccessible from any other computer! no hard wires, no wireless access! this of course is not an efficient manner to develop a game, so i don't blame valve for taking their chances (i would have too.)

sorry for the harshness, but security issues like this are so obvious that they make sense to someone who doesnt know anything about computers. the damage is done anyways. i'm just so angry. if worst comes to worse, valve gets sued, bankruptcy ensues, and we will never see half-life2 hit store shelves.

 

[Karma Harvest]

DJ, and Sling...

They are the same.. you are naive if you dont know this. The analogy used earlier about the locked door is the same here. Downloading a song on Kazaa is THEFT of a copyrighted work. It does not matter that it was an "open door" on Kazaa. It just means there are two parties breaking the law, one by distribution, and one by possesion. By downloading it, you have duplicated it, and therefore performed a further violation in addition to possesion.

Just because someone had to "hack" into a computer as opposed to it being "open" on kazaa makes no difference whatsoever. They just get an extra charge or two knocked on to the existing ones for their trouble of hacking at a password and unauthorised access to a computer.

Lastly.. it is not a misdomeanor, it is grand larsony if the quantity is large enough, and it also falls under copyright theft which can be enforced as a felony if added to intent to distribute as is the case with Kazaa. Your earlier spew about DMCA is correct... sort of... but you failed to recognize the prior copyright acts which are still in effect, which are enforcable to a criminal degree. (albeit dependant on a cooperating DA)


I find the disrespect given to musicians by trying to make a distinction on this subject disturbing.. How is a game in a box that you are supposed to buy, any different from a cd you are supposed to buy.. Answer is.. it isnt... except in YOUR mind...

The source code is a copyrighted collection of text

 used to create a piece of software [ intangible IP ] distributed on a CD.  

Music is a series of  recordings [code on paper or media] , used to create an album [ intangible IP ] distributed on a CD.

 

[Fraxture]

Things are changing Con, I remeber one time someone said we will never get into space, then we will never get to the moon. Never say never Con. The way technology truely evolves is through neccesity. And as hacking becomes a greater and greater danger. More funds are being funneled into capturing the hacking low lifes. Cowards that hide behind the KB and don't have the guts to go in with guns blazing. It all boils down to this. Those who work hard to ruin the state because they are frightened of 'BIG BROTHER' in truth and actuality create 'BIG BROTHER'. By performing the actions they do to prevent something that truely doesn't exist, they in reality cause the fear to become real. By hacking the way they do to substantiate this fantasy regime of information monsters. They in turn create the beast they so galliantly state they are trying to vanquish.

 

[Luke-a-Tron]

I hate to jump into the conversation in this way but ConSeanary, that was such a stupid post I have to say something. There have been a lot of stupid posts about here but yours is ... just so very stupid.

You don't know anyting about security as you obviously don't know shit about how firewalls work. You can have a firewall with no open ports and still do basically anything on the internet unabaited.

Hacking very often leaves nice little slime trail as it is very hard to cover up completely. To go in and look about is one thing, but the second you start affecting things the cookie crumbs start falling. If you think the FBI doesn't know how deal with these things.. well why don't you go run a few hacks and step on some toes and we'll just see how hard it is for them to get to you.

Now I'm not saying that ip's can be traced back to a physical location in a matter of minutes as some have suggested, things just don't happen that fast. What I am saying is people will go down for this. It may take 5 years of litigation after they're caught but with the resources Valve will have after HL2 is on sale, they will easily be able to follow through.

Oh, and excellent work Ruroni, though it would probably have been better had you not made your info publically available.

 

[newuser]

ok now, hackers are not low lifes and there would be no internet without "hackers". The hackers in this case were thieves and scumbags! The ppl that stole the SC and dist. around wear wankers. I dont want to defend My Go t I have had the server crase a few times due to these *****
But by no means did a hacker create BigB. BigB. was created bcoz some ppl want more control over all other ppl! I do not hack my self and I love CS and hate hax in the game, I admin the servers I play on in NZ and ban at least 1 hax per week. anyhow.
Hacking is just a type of culture that will try to test other ppls security, on all lvls we have better firewall software now bcoz hax have tryed to get through all firewalls. We have new techology and better protocols because someone a hax said wait I can see a hole in this protocol.
I seem to have run out of net time I may post later.

 

[X-R4d]

prison sex

Forget this HL2 crap. I want to hear more about the gay prison sex!

 

[OCybrManO]

Here is one point that I am very suprised that no one else brought up:

So many people keep saying "I didn't distribute it to anyone else... I just downloaded it via BitTorrent."

By saying this they are admitting that they uploaded part of the file to maybe a dozen other people... or a lot more if they left it up after the download finished (as seen in the picture with the compiled hl2.exe file).

This is the main reason I would recommend avoiding the use of BitTorrent for illegal purposes (I would recommend avoiding the illegal stuff, but that won't happen).

Even if they can't bust you for having the actual source on your computer... if they also find the torrent file you could be in serious trouble because you would be considered a distributor.

I almost downloaded the source because I am interested in HL2 modding... but I have too much respect for Valve.

 

[Fraxture]

I know what you are saying sort of. But it is not so much that I am talking about technology to stop hacking/crackers all toghther. I am talking about better technology to track these hacks and cracks. Were not so much talking about prevention in the terms of better firewalls with IDP. But we are talking about every bit of Hardware and medium used for the internet and networking being sniffed, and combed for these people. And stiffer penalties. Kevin Metnich was a big man in the right circle. But when I talk to indiviudals who are up on current events, they are like Kevin who? These hackers think they are famous, but no more famous than the employee of the month at the local McDonalds. Limited audience. These penalties will escelate, and I see one day a treason hacker being executed by lethal injection, as if he committed several 1st degree murders. I also see Delta Force tactics to cause 'ACCIDIENTS' to those over seas hackers who feel they are safe from all that takes place here in North America.
America is the new USSR. We are becoming a paranoid country with advance technology and our finger on the button.

 

[Sling_Blade]

Well working for a goverment funded company. I might add that hacking is at the top of the list because it is one of the most concerned methods of terrorism. Any action even though it seems trival, will be followed. Because just individuals are approachable by terrorist, and highly susceptible to bribes. Falcon and the Snowman!

Oh god don't get me started. This crap about considering anything you feel like "terrorism" is pure bullshit. Terrorism is a political act designed to instill terror in an enemy with the motive to coerce them into doing something you want. Terrorism is getting tossed around a lot after 9/11, and it is often to so blacken a subject that people will feel ignoring civil liberties is worth it. Don't come here and tell me that what happened to valve was "terrorism", or that you can classify all computer crime as terrorism, or that every computer crime should be treated as a terrorist act until proven otherwise.

~Karma you are making the classic mistake of misunderstanding the difference between copying and stealing. I've explained this countless times, and it seems there are some people unable to grasp the concept. I pray you are not one of them.

US law FIRMLY draws the line between copying and stealing. Copying is reproducting a copy, and it means that the original owner still has the same item they had before your copied it. Stealing is when you take what the owner had, and they no longer have it. It doens't matter how your morals play out, and if your morals don't distinguish between the two. If you think they are both just as bad, that is fine. But US law does mark a clear difference between the two. If you copy something you are only liable to copyright law, if that work is copyrighted or patented. If it was for non commercial use it is usually only a civil case, and only rarely is prosecuted as a misdonimer. Stealing is a criminal offense, and can be a felony which caries penalties much, much higher.

What does matter is how you obtained the copy. The people who broke into Valve broke laws in order to obtain their copy. So they are liable for any penalties comming from computer crime laws and the such. They also broke copyright law when they distributed the material, so they can be sued and possibly prosecuted as a misdonimer. However, people who downloaded the copy did not break any laws in downloading something. It doesn't matter how ther person obtained it. So, they are only liable to copyright law, and should be exempt under fair use as long as they do not use the code in their own work or distribute it. If you don't agree then I challenge you to find laws which contradict the copyright laws, specifically the ones I've already mentioned in my posts before this. My arguement rests not on any "open door" reasoning, but on the laws of the US. Yes the people who did this broke laws and can face steep penalties. People who downloaded it may not be, depending on what they do with it after downloading it.

I find the disrespect given to musicians by trying to make a distinction on this subject disturbing..

I'm not showing disrespect, I am trying to educate people on what the law states.

 

[Sling_Blade]

~OCybrManO That is correct. Bittorent isn't bad just because of that. Actually the .torrent file isn't a big issue, because it is usually stored in your temp IE Files, and deleted very fast. The real danger with bittorent is that it is possible to get all the IPs of those using a bittorent link from the tracker.

 

[Fraxture]

All I am saying is, you can toss around all the definitions you want. Quote every noteworthy philospihers. And believe in anything you wish. In the end, the reality is USA is going to become police state real soon. And we'll see how much freedom you will truely have then...

".. I have the same dream every night,
I see the millions buringin in their beds,
I wake up shaking in the morning light."

 

[WARLORD]

Originally posted by Fraxture
7PM Oct 3, 2003 Basement of a run down shantie....

The door flys into the room from the swift butt of the police issue battering ram! Quickly filtering in comes 2 armed and kevlar covered FBI agents; fanning out and followed by another pair.

'Clear!' crys one to the rear guard that stands in wait outside the door.

A gentleman walks in smartly dressed. Behind him follows 2 more masked FBI agents. The well dressed FBI agent eyes begin to water and he stiffles a GAG.

'My god can't these hackers take baths? Well that's what you get when you live at home with your widowed mother who walks around in a Moo Moo all day. These hackers are worse then the shit that crawls out of the serwers.'

He pulls a handkerchief from his pocket and puts it over his mouth as he walks further in the room. He plucks a pencil from his breast pocket and begins to gently turn over items in the room.

'Gay porn, Animal PORN?!?!? My god, these genetic jokes are a waste of space.'

'All right, call in the team, and warn them to wear HASMAT suits, because we have no idea what secretions these hacking rejects leave behind'

The agent walked toward the exit as an armed guard radioed for the inspection team, but stopped as something caught his eye. He leaned into a corner of the room to get a better view of a dimly lit poster. It was picture of Bin Laden bending over what apperaed to be a caricture of the PERP that they were currently investigation.

'That explains a lot' stated the FBI agent.

And as he left he could be heard stiffling another GAG.

lol someone played too much swat3

 

[He@t!]

LoL

 

[chumpchange]

check this..

http://gtwy.hl2arena.com/

 

[GJaaGular]

Ok you want it ...its out there..an mine has no Virri ya just gotta find it....buuubuuuu
Jag


Sooo funny

 

[Stormy151]

Personally, I don't know if this is legit or not- but it all sounds pretty plausible.

Either way, if the mag0ts were messing with Ruroni, and he reported it to Valve- the FBI will probably get involved at some level, and maybe bring some unwanted attention on the fag0ts. Aw, that's too bad... LOL

If they weren't, and it's legit, then they're one step closer to the perps. PWNED. LOL

Originally posted by Alea-Iacta-Est
and hey, the "culprit" is a member of a universally hated group, so it all fits in, doesn't it!

Huh! Maybe if the m y got bitch kiddie fags weren't playing their little attention whore games which made them "universally hated", no one would be pointing accusing fingers. Aw, that's also too bad...LOL

Anyone else think it's funny that all the people trying so hard to direct attention away from m y g o t registered in October? Things that make you go, hmmmmmm

Even if they weren't really behind it, I say let the community think they and other hack/cheat clans are. They'll be too busy trying to hide their affiliation from everybody to rage CS servers. The FBI will figure out the real crooks, while the gaming community forces the mag0ts to disband. ROTFLMAO

While we're all playing HL2 and Doom 3, they'll be getting "raged" by Bubba in Cell Block Six. w00t!

 

[Uh-Oh]

Woohooo! Finally reached the end of this thread! Yeah! I beat the thread! Game Over.

 

[Sling_Blade]

All I am saying is, you can toss around all the definitions you want. Quote every noteworthy philospihers. And believe in anything you wish. In the end, the reality is USA is going to become police state real soon. And we'll see how much freedom you will truely have then...

I hope you're wrong. These things swing back and forth through time, sometimes personal freedoms have the upper hand, and sometimes "security" provided by the government does. During WWII we were able to detain thoasands of american japanese in camps on the mere suspicion that some of them might be spies. During the McCarthy era, many people had their lives torn apart on the suspicion that they were communists. It is always fear that drives the pendelum the wrong way, and this time it is terrorism. At least for now, it seems that the pendelum is losing momentum, and things won't get much worse than they are now. If however there is another serious terrorist attack on the US, I would not be surprised to see the US turn into something resembling a police state. Especially if the terror of all terrors occured: a WMD being set off in a US city, be it a dirty bomb, biological weapon, or nuclear.

 

[LITTLE BILLY]

:bounce: he is liar

 

[The Dark Elf]

:bounce: he is liar

Don't drag up old threads for no reason.

*locked*