Ns - Source

maybe NS:Source would be able to better deal with the 30 weapon limit from HL, the reason they couldnt add so many weapons. does anyone know the limit for HL2?
 
bliink said:
maybe NS:Source would be able to better deal with the 30 weapon limit from HL, the reason they couldnt add so many weapons. does anyone know the limit for HL2?
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Weapon limit? I never heard of any weapon limit. You mean you could only have 30 different weapons or something?
 
I've heard something about this before.
It didn't make sense.
 
You know... I have to say, wouldn't DooM 3's engine make more sense for Natural Selection? Probablly make it too easy for the Aliens with all of the shadows though.
 
DannoHung said:
You know... I have to say, wouldn't DooM 3's engine make more sense for Natural Selection? Probablly make it too easy for the Aliens with all of the shadows though.
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I would have to agree with this. It's practically built for the D3 engine.
 
There has been talk on their forums of moving NS to a new engine eventually, but im not sure if Source is confirmed?

I think the Doom3 engine might make for compelling NS maps???
But i think system resources atm for Doom3 is a big detractor, espicially for MP.

I would love to see it remain in the HL world, true to its roots.
Finger crossed it does, ... can u imagine the beutiful ragdolls wen Skulks are shotgunned in mid air, im sure it will be an amazing thing to behold.


O Cheers
 
MjM said:
There has been talk on their forums of moving NS to a new engine eventually, but im not sure if Source is confirmed?

I think the Doom3 engine might make for compelling NS maps???
But i think system resources atm for Doom3 is a big detractor, espicially for MP.

I would love to see it remain in the HL world, true to its roots.
Finger crossed it does, ... can u imagine the beutiful ragdolls wen Skulks are shotgunned in mid air, im sure it will be an amazing thing to behold.


O Cheers
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Those are some good points. D3 wouldn't be able to support enough players for a while yet, until computers get better. Also, I'm not sure how good the physics is in the D3 netcode. I haven't really looked at it much though.
 
You know... I have to say, WE HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING THIS ALREADY. READ THE DAMNED THREAD.

Argh.

Anyway it's started the same stream of people saying "ns is made for doom 3". No it's not. How many light sources does NS tend to have per room? Look carefully. There are quite a few. Doom 3 would not handle NS as well as Source. Better yet, why burden the devs with trying to port NS to D3? Moving the current version to Source, and/or doing NS2 on Source would be far better than having them learn D3. Source is quite different from HL1's Q1/Q2 hybrid engine yes, but it has a lot more in common with D3 and the whole thing would go a lot more smoothly in a familiar development environment.

Why, by the ownage of Source, do you think D3 would handle NS better than Source?

Maybe your suggestion comes from the similar environments. Great. Just great. But have any of you ever seen DoD? Does it have a similar environment to HL1? Hell, pun/thingy not intended, does NS have a similar setting to HL1?

The answer to these three questions is no for at least two. Some of you are probably of the no crowd for number 1.

That's enough from me for now but I would love to see someone come up with 3 good reasons that hold up to anyone that posts after you (you being any reader and then poster - no specific person) as to why NS2 (or NS1 ported) would be more suitable for D4 than Source/HL2.
 
People don't know their software, FragBait0... Just don't mind them, let them be in their little "I talk about stuff I don't know" corner.

They think it's the best thing to do because, appearently, Doom 3 has better lightning (No it doesn't) and it looks to have the same environment that you'll be playing NS:S/2 in (Kind of true, but it's already completed in HL...).

So, don't bother with them. And Source is what they'd use between D3 & Source -- THEY know their shit even if you don't.
 
I'd keep it on source.

I was never a fan of constantly upgrading the computer.
 
IMHO any popular HL1 mod that doesn't port over is doomed... i'm sorry but i don't think that many people will still be hot to play games on a 5 year old engine after HL2 comes out.
 
FragBait0 said:
You know... I have to say, WE HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING THIS ALREADY. READ THE DAMNED THREAD.

Argh.

Anyway it's started the same stream of people saying "ns is made for doom 3". No it's not. How many light sources does NS tend to have per room? Look carefully. There are quite a few. Doom 3 would not handle NS as well as Source. Better yet, why burden the devs with trying to port NS to D3? Moving the current version to Source, and/or doing NS2 on Source would be far better than having them learn D3. Source is quite different from HL1's Q1/Q2 hybrid engine yes, but it has a lot more in common with D3 and the whole thing would go a lot more smoothly in a familiar development environment.

Why, by the ownage of Source, do you think D3 would handle NS better than Source?

Maybe your suggestion comes from the similar environments. Great. Just great. But have any of you ever seen DoD? Does it have a similar environment to HL1? Hell, pun/thingy not intended, does NS have a similar setting to HL1?

The answer to these three questions is no for at least two. Some of you are probably of the no crowd for number 1.

That's enough from me for now but I would love to see someone come up with 3 good reasons that hold up to anyone that posts after you (you being any reader and then poster - no specific person) as to why NS2 (or NS1 ported) would be more suitable for D4 than Source/HL2.
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Got anger?

It was just an idea people were discussing. And yes I do know what would be involved. I've used both HL1 hammer editor and the D3 editor pretty extensively. It could be built for either engine. It would just depend on your priorities. But yes I agree source would probably be the better choice if only for the greater number of players possible in MP. But sheesh, you don't have to try to rip people apart for merely talking about it.

Lighten up.
 
stoops417 said:
IMHO any popular HL1 mod that doesn't port over is doomed... i'm sorry but i don't think that many people will still be hot to play games on a 5 year old engine after HL2 comes out.
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If NS doesn't port, I'm sure to be still playing it. :)
 
Got anger? Hella yeah....

Yes It *could* be built for either engine. If we wanted to it could be stuffed onto U2. But on D3 the amount of lighting in NS could quite possibly leave anyone with a less-than-uber system completly frozen waiting for the first frame 30 minutes later...maybe not that extreme you get it. Hence why Source would be better. The hybrid lighting system is good for performance and Source's implementation seems quite good looking for the moment. We'll just have to wait and see. :p

IMHO any popular HL1 mod that doesn't port over is doomed... i'm sorry but i don't think that many people will still be hot to play games on a 5 year old engine after HL2 comes out.
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You must be joking. Have you seen the output of the nightwatch team recently? My only problem with them of course, is that it looks like HL3 is going to be released before they give us NW. :)

Are you still on about this graphics stuff? If a mod has the gameplay the people will come.
 
TBH I've been less than impressed with CS:S and therefore Source's netcode. Not that I've been impressed with Doom 3's.

As for D3's lighting vs source. Just grow up, seriously, lighting is not going to make the game.

And does anyone have any proof that D3's engine cannot render outdoor environments? I only ask because if we take D3 as a be all and end all for the D3 engine, then it becomes apparant that the D3 engine can't render the colour blue... :p
 
And does anyone have any proof that D3's engine cannot render outdoor environments? I only ask because if we take D3 as a be all and end all for the D3 engine, then it becomes apparant that the D3 engine can't render the colour blue...
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He has a point there. But I wonder why a *research lab* on mars is so damned dark? Must be those demons sucking photons from midair... :p

TBH I've been less than impressed with CS:S and therefore Source's netcode. Not that I've been impressed with Doom 3's.
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Netcode can be changed.

As for D3's lighting vs source. Just grow up, seriously, lighting is not going to make the game.
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I would love to know where and who this is directed at because then I might have a chance to potentially 1) participate in a flame war or 2) watch one. :)
Not that that is in order of preferance. :p
 
NS is NOT being ported. They're turning it into a Retail product...Unless of course they've changed their minds.
 
D3 lighting is cool, but it really would not go with NS well because the game is not meant to be horror style with flickering lights and scary noises. I mean, maybe it would work but not for lighting reasons.
 
...if we take D3 as a be all and end all for the D3 engine, then it becomes apparant that the D3 engine can't render the colour blue...
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I think this is quite possibly the best statement in this entire thread. It is amazing how many people here can't tell the difference between a game and an engine. You could make a mod about cute little bunnies on a bright sunny day with the d3 engine if you wanted to.
 
True.

I wonder about the ability of the engine to do the sunlight in realtime at something above 2fps.

And about it's blue rendering with more than 4 lights in the PVS at once... or any rendering for that matter.
 
You know what? NS should be on the doom 3 engine. It's perfect for it in every way, shape, and form...
 
NS Mapping Guidelines said:
Avoid Terror and Gore - Natural Selection is about lush, atmospheric sci-fi environments, cooperative strategy, and intense battles. It isn't about scaring the player or horrific environments. The aliens will still be scary, but very dark environments, flickering florescent lights, bodies slumped on rafters, and other staples of the horror genre don't help Natural Selection achieve its goals. Don't place dead colonists anywhere (slumped against walls, in piles, etc.). Pools of blood and dismemberment are also to be avoided. The game doesn't avoid blood and gore completely, but doesn't display lingering dead bodies and gibbed alien flesh. In fact, NS is less gory than Half-Life. This may seem like a senseless guideline, but it will help the game appeal to more people--hopefully resulting in more players, more add-ons, and a broader community.
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The dark enviroment of Doom 3 doesn't really fit the NS feel....

However, Doom 3 can do outdoor enviroments.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15452&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=80
 
No, no it's not... NS is all about vibrant gameplay in a gritty sci fi environment. Aliens vs Predator is about the darkness and scaryness. NS intentionally ups the gamma up on all maps and all the official maps specifically to avoid making the map either too dark or too scary and to make it look more colourful.

NS uses A LOT of custom code to get the skulks, lerks and jetpacks working right. These wont port over at all because they are all hacks of the dodgy HL1 physics system, and would need to be completely rewritten from scratch due to the Havoc engine. The weldables in the game are created from a type of solidity state that supposedly didn't exist in HL1. The commander mode would likely also need to be done from scratch, as I believe HL2 does the GUI quite differently and so the same methods may end up looking awefully messy after a port. The RTS building system may port over ok, as the buildings are basically all just inert monsters and would likely function similarly. Long story short, I highly doubt that the team would really want to put so much time and effort into converting NS over to source. Ofcourse if the conversion tools really are all the valve team says they are, then the team could possibly change their minds when they game comes out, but for the reasons stated above I seriously doubt it.

As for a sequel to NS, well we all know it's officially on the table and being planned. However I don't think even they know which engine they'll be using for it. I heard from one of the developers that the unreal engine would be quite nice to work with, though personally I feel the team is probably just holding off and waiting to see just how moddable HL2 is before making a decision. On the other hand however, they have just increased the size of their development team, however they are all working for free at the moment. I vaguely remember reading somewhere that those could eventually turn into paying jobs, which I suppose means the real hold up is just a lack of investors... I wouldn't hold your breath for this one, NS2 is probably still a distant goal.

Basically in short, I'm quite confident NS will be staying on the HL1 engine for a while yet. And personally I don't see why it needs to be any different. Now with steam integrating all the games and whacking them in a big handy dandy list, I can see HL1 mods still being able to survive.
 
Uh just to point out the obvious but any engine can do outdoor. Just make a cube with a planet skybox and tadah outside.

Now LOD and everything else is what makes outside enviroments so feasible.

Oh and to all those that think NS is good for D3 what utter lies. I know it's only netcode but I doubt any NS personel have any experiance with netcode. D3 with 8 players hurts like hell on a standard ADSL connection. Now imagine a 32 or 64 player NS match

Ouuuuuuuuuccccchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

/edit When will you people learn NS is not supposed to be dark.
 
id love to see D3 handle rooms from NS with 10 light sources all casting shadows. Thats the power of lightmaps right there.

EDIT: although with no funky shadows on/off ppl and the little bastard alien things.
 
The NS dev team may not have had experience with netcode, but they certainly don't lack experience in general... Flayra was one of the programs on the Empire Earth team, XP-Cagey was in the process of rewriting completely new HL compilers from scratch to specifically suit NS before he got hired by EA Games... I think regardless of what platform they move onto next, we can at the very least trust them to make an informed and sensible decision... And I highly doubt any amount of discussion will sway them from doing what they want...
 
Now hang on here they were not specificly for NS. They were to be for Half-Life. There really isn't much compile wise that can be done specificly for NS...
 
Hmm I suppose.... But he still ended up getting a job with EA and a contract that says he can't work for anybody else, even if it's for free... So basically he is contractually denied from being able to continue to work on NS or anything else mod related... Dammit... :(
 
That's pretty restricting. Im sure I would never sign something to that effect. Knowingly anyway :)
 
Revenge said:
Hmm I suppose.... But he still ended up getting a job with EA and a contract that says he can't work for anybody else, even if it's for free... So basically he is contractually denied from being able to continue to work on NS or anything else mod related... Dammit... :(
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Is this true? any linkage?

That is incredibly harsh to demand someones creativity purley for work. Work is a part of life but not everything. Whats the harm in working part-time on a mod?
 
EA succumes another soul I suppose. No offense to XP-Cagey, great guy with all the work he's done for the HL community.
 
It would be so sweet having an onos charge in, and be killed by the 4 hmgs there, only to ragdoll die and fall on the floor in the doorway, and the marines or aliens (except skulks and lerks) can't get through unless someone moves or gibs the onos body :D
 
Stop it. You are making my chair sweaty. And that means im 50% more likley to fall off and break something. :(
 
Wont the updated source engine courtesy a la bloodlines be perfecto mundo for the requirements of NS compared to the D3 engine?
 
Alty said:
Wont the updated source engine courtesy a la bloodlines be perfecto mundo for the requirements of NS compared to the D3 engine?
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Yes. But the devs need to take a look at the SDK first so they can make a decision (and announcement).
 
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