NVIDIA designated the "official" card of Doom 3.

dawdler said:
How many upcoming big games are OpenGL? How many upcoming games actually use this Ultrashadow in OpenGL?

Think on it.
Click to expand...
Doom 3. Quake IV.
 
We'll see id...we'll see... :D

Here's how I'll determine what gfx card to buy next:

How many games does the card perform over the competitor?
Image quality.

If ATi sacrifices some FPS in DOOM 3 but works better than Nivida in other newer games, I'm going with ATI because I'd get the most bang for my buck.
 
stigmata said:
Doom 3. Quake IV.
Click to expand...
Oooooooooh, two FPS shooters... I'm amazed. Yeah, you convinced me, OpenGL is the future :rolleyes:

How many games does the card perform over the competitor?
Image quality.
Click to expand...
Check out the link I gave ( http://members.shaw.ca/spiritwalker/pics/dx9diff.html ). Note the difference in the image, then check out fps, its pathetic on Nvidias side lol... (and no, not the garbled Fraps fps, that would be amazing eh, Far Cry at 250 fps! ;))
 
honestly, i'd rather more games were made with opengl since i'd rather microsoft not have the OS monopoly AND the DX monopoly...even if opengl was worse :p

everyone relying on directx just allows microsoft to do whatever it wants with longhorn and copy protection and everything else...dx10 = longhorn only, anyone?

but if id software is gonna be the only ones making ogl games...then so be it...let microsoft rule...because i'm not buying a vid card based on one company's games...valve or id.
 
dawdler said:
Oooooooooh, two FPS shooters... I'm amazed. Yeah, you convinced me, OpenGL is the future :rolleyes:


Check out the link I gave ( http://members.shaw.ca/spiritwalker/pics/dx9diff.html ). Note the difference in the image, then check out fps, its pathetic on Nvidias side lol... (and no, not the garbled Fraps fps, that would be amazing eh, Far Cry at 250 fps! ;))
Click to expand...

If OpenGL is not the future, i wonder why this OpenGL based game screenshot looks 1000 times better than DX9 screenshot you posted:

http://www.doom3.com/getdesktop.asp?num=3&size=sm
 
thenerdguy said:
Its like my 5900Ultra 256Mb card owning my friends 9800Pro at quake III in linux. :)
Click to expand...


:rolling: i love it when people bring that up......



ATI=300fps Nvidia=380fps

WOW!!!!! :upstare:
 
Considering DX9 is being developed by the mighty microsoft I think OpenGL has done well to stay close to DX9 in quality.

Personally I prefer OpenGL, it generally works better on my system with hardly any visible image quality reduction.
 
Seriously all you people boasting about "super fast framerates" are the ones kidding yourselves, whats the point going at 300 fps when you can only visually see a maximum of 30-60?
 
crabcakes66 said:
:rolling: i love it when people bring that up......



ATI=300fps Nvidia=380fps

WOW!!!!! :upstare:
Click to expand...

No its like my 5900 ultra at 1600x1200 with AA and AF at 8X getting around 450 fps and my friends 9800pro with the same settings and only getting 180 fps and very crappy image quailty and no lighting and no shadow and no water effects at all.

Ill bring it up every time. Nvidia is better in linux. OpenGl works better with Nvidia. Its that simple.
 
mortiz said:
Personally I prefer OpenGL, it generally works better on my system with hardly any visible image quality reduction.
Click to expand...
You know, that doesnt make sense. At all.

Quality reduction compared to what?! When it comes to D3D, both Nvidia [when following specs without haxing the image] and ATI [when it doesnt suffer gamma error] comes pretty close to the reference rasterizer. You cant get any more accurate image quality than that.

Nvidia is better in linux. OpenGl works better with Nvidia.
Click to expand...
So one could also say it... Ati is better in Windows. DirecX works better with ATI. Which weighs the most? :E

Sidenote: Read every review on the net, the differences are far smaller than that even in the 300+ range... Usually around +-40 fps. In actually *playable* conditions, we are talking +- 10 fps or less.

Sidenote: We are going offtopic, so... DOOM III SUXXORZ!!! HL2 RULEZZ JOOOOOO!!!!
 
WOW this from a mod.

(Why am i even bothering to argue with a mod on a hl2 fanboy site?)

O and its not only on quake III its also UT UT2003/4 too. :) yas directx 9 works better with ati, but from what the rumors are saying the next version will work better with nvidia, (Plus they say that the next nvidia card will own ati, I dont know but i think its a cool rumor)


OK this is the last post from me on this.
 
Venmoch said:
Seriously all you people boasting about "super fast framerates" are the ones kidding yourselves, whats the point going at 300 fps when you can only visually see a maximum of 30-60?
Click to expand...


uh oh...not another incredibly misinformed person about the human eye and framerates....

you can see the difference between 60fps and 100fps...especially if that's the average framerate...

and you can see the difference between 100fps and 200fps...our eyes perceive the world continuously...not in frames, so any framerate is visible...but the point where you can't tell the difference is much higher than 30-60fps...though i do agree that there is a point where it doesn't effectively matter to your eye.

but your eye can see blips that last 1/200th of a second (proven by tests on figher pilots identifying enemy planes/vehicles)

check this article out:
http://amo.net/NT/02-21-01FPS.html

and there are non-visual reasons why you would want to have a fast framerate...has to do with how the game updates your position, when you fired, etc...just do some searching on google...you'll get it.
 
sure doom3 will look nice...but will it be fun? that's the question.

i say...not really....though it'll be cool to run around and shoot pretty things.
 
dawdler said:
Maybe because the shot I posted was an ingame screen from Far Cry (I think) without any aim of being fancy, not concept art :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
The fact that you mistakenly identified an ingame Doom3 screenshots as concept art proves that the Doom3 engine indeed supports very high quality graphics. :cheese:
 
harrys said:
its an in-game screenshot, not concept art lol. :D
and so is this one.
http://www.planetdoom.com/images/image.asp?screenshots/official/15l.jpg

I love when people say the D3 screenshots are concept art, it just shows how good it looks :thumbs:
Click to expand...
They are concept, they arent a picture of someone *playing*.

Take a look at my originally image.

Then take a look at this image: http://www.crytek.com/screenshots/index.php?sx=xisle&px=1246.jpg
Or this: http://www.crytek.com/screenshots/index.php?sx=xisle&px=1243.jpg
Or this: http://www.crytek.com/screenshots/index.php?sx=xisle&px=1249.jpg
Or this: http://www.crytek.com/screenshots/index.php?sx=xisle&px=1245.jpg

Then take a look at your Doom III image.

All my screenshots listed here (edit: maybe except the truck, that's borderline) and the Doom III are purely high quality showoffs, preset shoots, thus more concept than ingame shot. Except the first link I posted, which was an ingame image to show the difference of Nvidia rendering and ATI rendering in Far Cry, not something to showoff the game, showoff the engine, or even showoff DX9.

Edit: this one, http://www.crytek.com/screenshots/index.php?sx=xisle&px=1233.jpg , is probably the better comparison, cause its the same type of scene setup as your Doom III image. And guess what: Its prettier! :p
 
dawdler said:
They are concept, they arent a picture of someone *playing*.

Take a look at my originally image.

Then take a look at this image: http://www.crytek.com/screenshots/index.php?sx=xisle&px=1246.jpg
Or this: http://www.crytek.com/screenshots/index.php?sx=xisle&px=1243.jpg
Or this: http://www.crytek.com/screenshots/index.php?sx=xisle&px=1249.jpg
Or this: http://www.crytek.com/screenshots/index.php?sx=xisle&px=1245.jpg

Then take a look at your Doom III image.

All my screenshots listed here (edit: maybe except the truck, that's borderline) and the Doom III are purely high quality showoffs, preset shoots, thus more concept than ingame shot. Except the first link I posted, which was an ingame image to show the difference of Nvidia rendering and ATI rendering in Far Cry, not something to showoff the game, showoff the engine, or even showoff DX9.
Click to expand...

Again, you are fooling yourself if you thnk D3 screenshots are concept art (anyone who had played leaked alpah will tell u that).

Take a look at these *in-game* screenshots from different angle.

http://www.doom3.com/images/screenshots/02.jpg
http://www.doom3.com/images/screenshots/03.jpg
http://www.doom3.com/images/screenshots/01.jpg
http://www.doom3.com/images/screenshots/04.jpg

Now compare with your DX9 game. The character models and in door environments in screenshots you posted looks pathetic compared do this OpenGL game.
 
it's carmack's work, not the greatness of opengl, that make doom3 look great....

if carmack and id were developing for directx, they'd make an engine that looks just as good...

and i think the "show off" screens from both games look great....doom has nice shadows and the crytek engine has great looking foliage....the thing is...all of the screens you guys posted are show off screens...who cares if they bothered to render a weapon in one of the doom3 screens...it's not going to look that good when you play it....far cry or doom 3.
 
Maskirovka said:
sure doom3 will look nice...but will it be fun? that's the question.

i say...not really....though it'll be cool to run around and shoot pretty things.
Click to expand...

OMG!! yeah. I will be able to run and shoot stuff for first time in game :O
I hope HL2 also implements that feature, it will be awesome:O
 
Maskirovka said:
it's carmack's work, not the greatness of opengl, that make doom3 look great....

if carmack and id were developing for directx, they'd make an engine that looks just as good...

and i think the "show off" screens from both games look great....doom has nice shadows and the crytek engine has great looking foliage....the thing is...all of the screens you guys posted are show off screens...who cares if they bothered to render a weapon in one of the doom3 screens...it's not going to look that good when you play it....far cry or doom 3.
Click to expand...

you're right. thats what I was trying to prove, oppose to some people who think just because a game uses DirectX9 magically produces better output. Hardware makes bigger difference not API. API is only layer which talks to hardware and to use its features with set instructions. For example , If graphics card doesn't support Pixel Shaders technology, Doom3 or FarCry may look totally different games.
 
dawdler said:
They are concept, they arent a picture of someone *playing*.
Click to expand...

concept

n : an abstract or general idea inferred or derived from specific instances

"Concept art" is used in the planning stage of game development, to give the artists an idea about the theme of the game and to aid them in creating the actual game art. The screenshots you showed all show actual game content. None of it can be regarded as concept, because everything seen in those screenshots will appear in the commercial product. It could very well be possible that they represent actual ingame cinematic sequences.
 
by the time HL2 comes out, the Nvidia cards will beable to perform better with shader based operations, so how come peeps are saying that its ATI vs Nvidia, come the time it'll be completely different
 
clarky003 said:
by the time HL2 comes out, the Nvidia cards will beable to perform better with shader based operations, so how come peeps are saying that its ATI vs Nvidia, come the time it'll be completely different
Click to expand...

Will they now? Okay then, I'm just glad you can see into the future, because without you, I would have thought that ATi will have released their new cards as well, indicating that it will still be an ATi vs. nVidia situation...
 
Arno said:
concept

n : an abstract or general idea inferred or derived from specific instances

"Concept art" is used in the planning stage of game development, to give the artists an idea about the theme of the game and to aid them in creating the actual game art. The screenshots you showed all show actual game content. None of it can be regarded as concept, because everything seen in those screenshots will appear in the commercial product. It could very well be possible that they represent actual ingame cinematic sequences.
Click to expand...
Concept art is also something that gives the player an idea of the theme of the game, I consider it fairly similar when we are talking about a 3D image, ingame or no.

Maybe I used wrong wordings with saying "concept art"... Hm... How about super-high-quality-situational-footage-from-3rd-person-camera-and-not-player-staged-by-the-developer-whether-ingame-cinematic-or-no-with-the-purpose-of-only-looking-good-and-sell-the-game-or-possibly-with-the-purpose-of-displaying-fancy-things-like-normal-mapping-and-pixelshaders?
 
dawdler said:
Maybe I used wrong wordings with saying "concept art"... Hm... How about super-high-quality-situational-footage-from-3rd-person-camera-and-not-player-staged-by-the-developer-whether-ingame-cinematic-or-no-with-the-purpose-of-only-looking-good-and-sell-the-game-or-possibly-with-the-purpose-of-displaying-fancy-things-like-normal-mapping-and-pixelshaders?
Click to expand...
That seems like a pretty accurate description! :E
 
I hate to be the guy that says this (there always is one), but you leave me no choice.. :sleep:


How the hell can you compare these games graphically!??
I think you understand which on is which by these descriptions...

One is set in a lush, tropical landscape, and has somethine like a 2km drawdistance.

One is set in tight, claustrophobic, (mostly) indoor environments, but uses sophisticated realtime lighting and shadows.


It's like comparing apples and pineapples (or something....)!



If they switched places, we would truly know which engine is best... (And for that, I think Far Cry would come out on top, since there is still no pics of wide open terrain in the Doom3 engine, but Far Cry does indoors just fine)
 
well pur sorze...i wonder what the doom3 engine would do with 1km+ distances?
 
Maskirovka said:
well pur sorze...i wonder what the doom3 engine would do with 1km+ distances?
Click to expand...
may be because the game doesn't have vehicles to drive around 1 km distances?

Draw distance is accomplished by LOD (Level of Detail setting) , its a common trick already used by other game engines like serious sam.

The question is, can Far Cry engine display objects more than 200 ft away without loosing LOD?
take a look at this far cry screenshot:

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/farcry/screens.html?page=233

Notice the trees on far back in middle and on right side of screen and how some objects start to disappear. :E
 
harrys said:
may be because the game doesn't have vehicles to drive around 1 km distances?

Draw distance is accomplished by LOD (Level of Detail setting) , its a common trick already used by other game engines like serious sam.

The question is, can Far Cry engine display objects more than 200 ft away without loosing LOD?
take a look at this far cry screenshot:

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/farcry/screens.html?page=233

Notice the trees on far back in middle and on right side of screen and how some objects start to disappear. :E
Click to expand...
Well that's how the game is design. If you ask *CAN* it display them, then the answer is most likely yes, there is always a setting to move the lod distance or override it (at least you can do it in OFP, that's heavily lodded). Wether you *WANT* to play with such massive polycounts is another matter...

At any rate, they are *not* that different. Here's indoor shots from their page:
http://www.crytek.com/screenshots/index.php?sx=xisle&px=1242.jpg
http://www.crytek.com/screenshots/index.php?sx=xisle&px=1224.jpg
http://www.crytek.com/screenshots/index.php?sx=xisle&px=1232.jpg
Both still do pretty advanced enviroment indoors. Doom III is better at it, but lack outdoor enviroment. I consider Far Cry a *much* more balanced engine, that's why I said that this is what most people want for future engines, not Doom III (aka fancy Quake) style engines.
 
The Doom III engine is being used for Quake IV which has been said to include vechiles and huge outdoor enviroments.

:)
 
mrBadger said:
The Doom III engine is being used for Quake IV which has been said to include vechiles and huge outdoor enviroments.

:)
Click to expand...
So when will we see Quake IV? By the time we have the R500 we could probably run the Doom III engine with 1600x1200/6xAA/16xAF at 100+ fps. Outdoors levels and vehicle physics are easy to squeeze in then.
 
dawdler said:
So when will we see Quake IV? By the time we have the R500 we could probably run the Doom III engine with 1600x1200/6xAA/16xAF at 100+ fps. Outdoors levels and vehicle physics are easy to squeeze in then.
Click to expand...
It's the same scenario as with the Quake3 engine. Q3A was originally pretty much restricted to small, mainly indoor maps. When the hardware advanced, bigger areas could be rendered. This resulted in the terrain maps from Team Arena and RTCW.

No doubt that after a few years the Doom3 engine will also render large outdoor areas.
 
"we b3tter than ATi... cause we had a l33t fan contest! and we do teh 'teh way it's meant to be played!'!!!" Whoppde-****ing-do... :hmph:

doesn't mean that Nvidia will have ANY performace boost when running games on teh D3 engine
 
Listen. ATi make mistakes too you know. They're a company, they make mistakes.
 
Only reason I have ever supported ATI over NVIDIA is because they offered the same of better for far cheaper for a fair while....
 
Arno said:
It's the same scenario as with the Quake3 engine. Q3A was originally pretty much restricted to small, mainly indoor maps. When the hardware advanced, bigger areas could be rendered. This resulted in the terrain maps from Team Arena and RTCW.

No doubt that after a few years the Doom3 engine will also render large outdoor areas.
Click to expand...

There aren't any D3 screens that shows outdoor environments except this one:
http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image/2/0,1311,sz=1&i=29585,00.jpg
Which indicates that engine can render outdoor environments, but may not as huge as far cry environments.
 
Will they now? Okay then, I'm just glad you can see into the future, because without you, I would have thought that ATi will have released their new cards as well, indicating that it will still be an ATi vs. nVidia situation
Click to expand...

lol, I never said they wouldnt, silly :p, god damn Sarcasticness , perdantic... rant rant. :)
 
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