Obama a Threat to Gun Owners

[Eejit]

You may OWN them, but you don't carry them into town with you right?

 

[leib10]

You actually have the right to do that as long as the weapon is not concealed. Now, I'm not a bodyguard or a cop or someone who has a need to do that, but I could if I wanted to.

 

[Eejit]

... I know. But you don't. Nobody carries assault weapons around except people looking to commit a crime (or sometimes law enforcement). Therefore if you prevented access to those weapons the average person wouldn't be affected much, and criminals would find it much more difficult (at least) to get them, and cops wouldn't be outgunned as often.

 

[leib10]

You don't understand that making it illegal for them to carry them around isn't going to keep them from doing it. You've made the point that they're probably going to commit a crime with them, so being nailed for merely carrying them around is not going to bother them much compared to the risks when they commit a serious crime with them.

If you're making the case that nobody should be allowed to have them, I've explained myself in a previous post. True, they would not be able to buy them in gun stores (something convicted felons cannot do today), but there is a black market in existence that will prove to be a bit harder to shut down than the gun stores.

 

[PvtRyan]

You say "criminals will always have guns" as if criminals were some sort of homogeneous group. To find firearms on criminals here, you'd have to look for organized crime, and even they don't run around with AKs. But what's stopping some lowlife thug gangsta wannabe from packing heat in the US? There's absolutely no threshold. And no, those kind of people here generally don't have guns. Those kind of people carry knifes with them, which have a much higher psychological threshold to be used because they're more personal and confrontational.

But I agree that guncontrol in the US is pointless, because it's already retarded on the subject of guns. Guncontrol would only hurt law abiding citizens, because everyone already has guns and criminals wouldn't give them up while citizens would.

I don't see a ban on devices whose only purpose is to kill other people as a loss of freedom. I think a society without the paranoid fear of each other that makes people think it's needed to arm themselves is more free in fact. Although I wouldn't object to people owning guns through a license if they pass a competency test, just like a car exam (and with the difficulty of driving exams here, not those in the US) because just like driving a car isn't a right, neither is gun ownership.

 

[Ridge]

"Stolen" as in a jobless Gun Owner sold the gun illegally because he has to feed his family in this down spiraling economy.

Thats an amazing assumption you pulled out of your ass right there...

BTW, did you know that nobody but cops can have guns in Mexico??

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[Mr-Fusion]

Obama might, maybe, perhaps, possibly, on the off chance strip away all of America's guns!

That's a good thing.

 

[Saturos]

You say "criminals will always have guns" as if criminals were some sort of homogeneous group. To find firearms on criminals here, you'd have to look for organized crime, and even they don't run around with AKs. But what's stopping some lowlife thug gangsta wannabe from packing heat in the US? There's absolutely no threshold. And no, those kind of people here generally don't have guns. Those kind of people carry knifes with them, which have a much higher psychological threshold to be used because they're more personal and confrontational.

But I agree that guncontrol in the US is pointless, because it's already retarded on the subject of guns. Guncontrol would only hurt law abiding citizens, because everyone already has guns and criminals wouldn't give them up while citizens would.

I don't see a ban on devices whose only purpose is to kill other people as a loss of freedom. I think a society without the paranoid fear of each other that makes people think it's needed to arm themselves is more free in fact. Although I wouldn't object to people owning guns through a license if they pass a competency test, just like a car exam (and with the difficulty of driving exams here, not those in the US) because just like driving a car isn't a right, neither is gun ownership.

^agree

If guns were banned from the start 200 years ago, maybe, just maybe, gun-control would work since few would be in circulation. Both physically and culturally. Humans are ever ingenious in their ways to kill people though or to find devices to make it easy to kill people. Gun-control is not a good deterrent for high-crime in a country as large as the US imo. EDIT>This may be where my opinion is different however.

Education and dicipline is however, and both seem to be lacking in the US of late.

BTW, did you know the US founding fathers designed the second Amendment right to bear arms so that it's citizens could have equal firepower of that of the government in case it no longer served the constitution? In that case though, tanks, rocket launchers, anti-air etc. should all be legal. What a mess that would be though.

BTW, inb4 out of control gun-control debate. I think I'm too late though.

(and those like you who push bullshit propaganda)

and I suppose you'll believe anything you hear on the news? :upstare:

 

[Krynn72]

Thats an amazing assumption you pulled out of your ass right there...

BTW, did you know that nobody but cops can have guns in Mexico??

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Did you know that posting shock images of rare and violent incidents makes your point more credible?





Oh, you do. Good.

By the way, Abortion is WRONG:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/SmileyMags/MyScrap/Elem/TB1MAG.png
http://www.plushinarush.com/ProductImages/valentines/1390V-Bear.jpg
http://www.rochesterinsider.com/blogs/susie/uploaded_images/bunnyclap-736834.jpg
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[Ridge]

Did you know that posting shock images of rare and violent incidents makes your point more credible?





Oh, you do. Good.

By the way, Abortion is WRONG:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/SmileyMags/MyScrap/Elem/TB1MAG.png
http://www.plushinarush.com/ProductImages/valentines/1390V-Bear.jpg
http://www.rochesterinsider.com/blogs/susie/uploaded_images/bunnyclap-736834.jpg
http://i1.iofferphoto.com/img/item/578/031/11/57df_1.JPG

Im pointing out that even where nobody is supposed to have guns, gun crime still runs rampant...

And your pop culture pedo bears (and the fluffy bunny) do not frighten me!

 

[Maestro]

I can see you enjoy having the government possess a monopoly on power then. As though they need to, the food distro is so centralized they can just control whether you eat anyway.
Sheeple, I'll never understand them...

 

[Ridge]

I can see you enjoy having the government possess a monopoly on power then. As though they need to, the food distro is so centralized they can just control whether you eat anyway.
Sheeple, I'll never understand them...

Who are you referring to?

 

[SIGbastard]

Here is my latest. I mentioned it in the lounge but never posted pics of mine. I finally mounted my scope. It is a Barrett M99-A1. I have 100rds of .50 BMG with some ball, armor piercing, and armor piercing incendiary. Left to right in my hand is armor piercing, ball, and API. The armor piercing and API projectiles are surplus projectiles so they are cheap. You can still get them by the thousands for cheap because of the huge surplus from WWII. Again I'm talking the projectiles not the cartridges. These were loaded by a commercial loader local to me as I do not have a press that can handle .50 bmg yet. The armor piercing and API are popular because they are so cheap, but they are not match grade. They are good for just informal practice/blasting. You can't buy newly made armor piercing projectiles or rounds but surplus before a certain time period is good to go. I'd actually just get ball ammo for cheap loads but the AP and API is cheaper.

Why is it just showing up as links? I put

around the links........


Oh yea here is the gun:

 

[Ridge]

Looks like a fun (and expensive!) pile of ammo...now lets see the Barrett

Yikes!!!! No way I could drop 4 Gs for a rifle...

 

[SIGbastard]

Looks like a fun (and expensive!) pile of ammo...now lets see the Barrett

Yikes!!!! No way I could drop 4 Gs for a rifle...

Yea I forgot that part:

Actually I got it for $3389 shipped. I just got the rifle and pelican case though as I did not like the rings or the scope the kit for $3800 comes with. I got my own glass and rings. The scope is not the best but I was running low on fundage. After the rings and scope I spent around $3900. I want a nice Leupold Mark 4 or Nightforce scope but I didn't want to dish out the cash.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

You know you can't shoot them if they are attempting to flee. You can't shoot them in the back either, or it's not self defense.

Yeah if they are trying to flee or you shoot them in the back. I figured everyone understands that. Why would I bother to shoot someone already running away? Dumb.

Then, by law, you'd be a murderer. You can't shoot someone outside your home who isn't attempting to harm others.

WRONG, look up Arizona law regarding this.

By law, you can't shoot them because they are stealing your car.

WRONG, look up Arizona law regarding this.

A. A person is justified in threatening or using both physical force and deadly physical force against another if and to the extent the person reasonably believes that physical force or deadly physical force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's commission of:

arson of an occupied structure under section 13-1704,

burglary in the second or first degree under section 13-1507 13-1508,

kidnapping under section 13-1304,

manslaughter under section 13-1103,

second or first degree murder under section 13-1104

13-1105, sexual conduct with a minor under section 13-1405,

sexual assault under section 13-1406,

child molestation under section 13-1410,

armed robbery under section 13-1904, or

aggravated assault under section 13-1204, subsection A, paragraphs 1 and 2.

B. There is no duty to retreat before threatening or using PHYSICAL FORCE OR deadly physical force justified by subsection A of this section.

It doesn't say 'property' it says 'in your home' Your front yard (or wherever you keep your car) is not 'in your home'

WRONG, ANYWHERE.

D. THIS SECTION IS NOT LIMITED TO THE USE OR THREATENED USE OF PHYSICAL OR DEADLY PHYSICAL FORCE IN A PERSON'S HOME, RESIDENCE, PLACE OF BUSINESS, LAND THE PERSON OWNS OR LEASES, CONVEYANCE OF ANY KIND, OR ANY OTHER PLACE IN THIS STATE WHERE A PERSON HAS A RIGHT TO BE.

even fewer states cover automobiles and only if you occupy them. Do you live in your car RT? You don't have an Recreational Vehicle or camper do you? So unless you or your family were in your car with your gun and someone tried to steal it, then no, you don't have the right to kill them.

Occupied as in you are in it, not "live in it" Also this is burglarly in the second degree, look up AZ laws regarding this.

I suggest you actually read over that; ignorance of the law is no excuse to break it.


Here

You still have to present a reasonable and justifiable case in a court of law for using deadly force.

The law in Arizona states if you are using deadly force to prevent certain felonies from being prevented it is justified. Look up AZ law regarding this.

I What on earth?

Police officers do it every day. And no it's not sick and messed up - you are.

Police NEVER do this. Huge mistake. Police are taught that if they fire their weapon it is to kill. SPECIFICALLY not to "wound." You dont even know what you're talking about. Shooting to wound is utterly retarded. How am I "sick and messed up" because I value my family over someone trying to jack me.

They only shoot to kill if stopping a criminal is imperative. They won't shoot someone for attempting to steal a car. They shoot someone to kill only if someone's life is threatened.



Many of the states that support similar laws have a 'duty to retreat' clause:

Arizona is not one of them. nice try.

Then spend your life in jail for murder and think about how stupid and wrong you were every day.

Do I look like I'm in jail?

fixed, and I agree. I don't think R.Temjin should be allowed to have guns. He has already sternly and repeatedly admitted that he would murder someone unjustly, without good cause.

You don't think anybody should have guns anyway, so your point is stupid. Have fun when your house is robbed and you can't do a god damn thing about it but weep in the corner.






DO a little research next time before you try and act like you know the law. Especially the law for MY state

 

[SIGbastard]

Here is some anti-gun stuff straight from his own mouth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-4jqZSEo0Q

 

[Azner]

My God.

I COULD GO AROUND IN ARIZONA AND CARRY A GUN AND JUST WAIT FOR SOMEONE TO DO SOMETHING STUPID.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

My God.

I COULD GO AROUND IN ARIZONA AND CARRY A GUN AND JUST WAIT FOR SOMEONE TO DO SOMETHING STUPID.

Yes, you can carry your handgun on you even if you don't have CCW permit, it just has to be visible. EG: A holster outside your pants, etc. It's not uncommon to see here at all.

If you have your CCW permit ($90 and about a 6 hour class at age 21) you can carry it concealed anywhere besides specifically prohibited areas like schools, etc

 

[Azner]

That means you could be a vigilante and not be breaking any laws. Thats somewhat cool. Cowboy look with guns in holsters and walking around looking for anyone in trouble and just BLAM

WHAT AM I THINKING

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

That means you could be a vigilante and not be breaking any laws. Thats somewhat cool. Cowboy look with guns in holsters and walking around looking for anyone in trouble and just BLAM

WHAT AM I THINKING

I just imagine you like yosimmity sam.

Yeah you'd be really weird to be doing that but yeah you can do that. I mean it's not all that common to just run into someone commiting such felonies in public but if you did have at it. You'll be glad you do have your handgun on you when someone shanks you or tries to and you can kill them before they do further damage.


The bigger threat however is after hours on your own property.

 

[CptStern]

Im pointing out that even where nobody is supposed to have guns, gun crime still runs rampant...

And your pop culture pedo bears (and the fluffy bunny) do not frighten me!

you're comparing mexico with the US? really?



well lets see I too can use facts to show the opposite is true:


mexico's murder rate in 2004 was 13.04/100,000 inhabitants, the US murder rate in 2004 was 5.6/100,000 inhabitants ..yet the rate of murder by firearm is within a few points of each other 2.58 and 3.45 respectively ..could it be that the huge difference between the murder rate and the murder by firearm rate is due to the fact guns are banned?

all other crimes including rape, burglary and robbery were higher in the US ..in some cases (robbery) much much higher ...this returns me to my first point that the high murder rate yet much lower rates of other crimes points to a gang/organised crime/civil unrest problem rather than ordinary criminals ..it's safe to say that gun violence is mainly endemic to these groups rather than petty criminals. In other words your point that mexico having less guns yet still a high gun crime rate is inaccurate at best and a twisting of facts to suit an agenda at worst

also the huge difference between the two countries crime rates points to something else ..guns probably perpetuate the high crime rate in all other crimes besides murder in the US. the fact that guns are so easy to obtain works far more in the criminals favor than it does the legitimate gun owner

 

[Ridge]

all other crimes including rape, burglary and robbery were higher in the US

More than likely due to the fact that most violent crimes in Mexico are met with resistance and therefore result in a shooting death...

 

[VirusType2]

Take a look at Ciudad Juarez, a major city right across the border from my hometown. Literally hundreds of people have been shot there this year- this in a country that has outlawed firearms entirely.

I don't think you can compare Mexico to the US in terms of crime. Mexico is something of the wild west right now. They have a really bad drug trafficking problem, a really underfunded, understaffed, under gunned and corrupt police force.

There isn't much work in Mexico, so there isn't much tax dollars, while the drug traffickers have millions, perhaps even billions, and with that money, they have recruited highly trained ex soldiers to form armies of criminals.

An example:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/08/AR2008050803242.html


A travel guide for visiting Mexico, courtesy the US government

CRIME: Crime in Mexico continues at high levels, and it is often violent, especially in Mexico City, Tijuana, Ciudad Juarez, Nuevo Laredo, Monterrey, Acapulco, and the state of Sinaloa. Other metropolitan areas have lower, but still serious, levels of crime. Low apprehension and conviction rates of criminals contribute to Mexico?s high crime rate.

Personal Property: Travelers should always leave valuables and irreplaceable items in a safe place, or not bring them at all. All visitors are encouraged to make use of hotel safes when available, avoid wearing obviously expensive jewelry or designer clothing, and carry only the cash or credit cards that will be needed on each outing. There are a significant number of pickpocket, purse snatching, and hotel-room theft incidents. Public transportation is a particularly popular place for pickpockets. When renting a vehicle, ensure that advertisements or labels for the rental agency are not prominently displayed on the vehicle. Avoid leaving valuables such as identification, passport and irreplaceable property in rental vehicles, even when locked.

A number of Americans have been arrested for passing on counterfeit currency they had earlier received in change. If you receive what you believe to be a counterfeit bank note, bring it to the attention of Mexican law enforcement.

Personal Safety: Visitors should be aware of their surroundings at all times, even when in areas generally considered safe. Women traveling alone are especially vulnerable and should exercise caution, particularly at night. Victims, who are almost always unaccompanied, have been raped, robbed of personal property, or abducted and then held while their credit cards were used at various businesses and Automatic Teller Machines (ATMs). U.S. citizens should be very cautious in general when using ATMs in Mexico. If an ATM must be used, it should be accessed only during the business day at large protected facilities (preferably inside commercial establishments, rather than at glass-enclosed, highly visible ATMs on streets). U.S. and Mexican citizens are sometimes accosted on the street and forced to withdraw money from their accounts using their ATM cards.

Kidnapping, including the kidnapping of non-Mexicans, continues at alarming rates. So-called express kidnappings, an attempt to get quick cash in exchange for the release of an individual, have occurred in almost all the large cities in Mexico and appear to target not only the wealthy, but also the middle class. U.S. businesses with offices in Mexico or concerned U.S. citizens may contact the U.S. Embassy or any U.S. consulate to discuss precautions they should take.
Kidnapping in Mexico has become a lucrative business, whether it be an actual kidnapping or a virtual kidnapping. A common scam throughout Mexico is telephone kidnapping with a similar methodology. The virtual kidnapping calls typically include a distraught voice immediately after the phone is answered that serves as a ploy to elicit information about a potential victim. The caller then uses this knowledge to demand ransom for the release of the supposed victim. In the event of such a call stay calm since the vast majority of the calls are hoaxes; do not reveal any personal information; try to speak with the victim to corroborate identity; and contact the local police as well as the Embassy or nearest Consulate.

Criminal assaults occur on highways throughout Mexico; travelers should exercise extreme caution at all times, avoid traveling at night, and may wish to use toll (?cuota?) roads rather than the less secure ?free? (?libre?) roads whenever possible. Always keep your car doors locked and your windows up while driving, whether on the highway or in town. When in heavy traffic or when stopped in traffic, leave enough room between vehicles to maneuver and escape, if necessary. In addition, U.S. citizens should not hitchhike with, accept rides from or offer rides to, strangers anywhere in Mexico. Tourists should not hike alone in backcountry areas, nor walk alone on lightly-frequented beaches, ruins or trails.

Street Crime: Armed street crime is a serious problem in all of the major cities. Some bars and nightclubs, especially in resort cities such as Cancun, Cabo San Lucas, Mazatlan, Acapulco, and Tijuana, can be havens for drug dealers and petty criminals. Some establishments may contaminate or drug drinks to gain control over the patron.

All bus travel should be during daylight hours and on first-class conveyances. Although there have been several reports of bus hijackings and robberies on toll roads, buses on toll roads have a markedly lower rate of incidents than buses (second- and third-class) that travel the less secure "free" highways. The Embassy advises caution when traveling by bus from Acapulco toward Ixtapa or Huatulco. Although the police have made some progress in bringing this problem under control, armed robberies of entire busloads of passengers still occur.

Harassment/Extortion: In some instances, Americans have become victims of harassment, mistreatment and extortion by Mexican law enforcement and other officials. Mexican authorities have cooperated in investigating such cases, but one must have the officer's name, badge number, and patrol car number to pursue a complaint effectively. Please note this information if you ever have a problem with police or other officials. In addition, tourists should be wary of persons representing themselves as police officers or other officials. When in doubt, ask for identification. Be aware that offering a bribe to a public official to avoid a ticket or other penalty is a crime in Mexico.

It is increasingly common for extortionists to call prospective victims on the telephone, often posing as law enforcement or other officials, and demand payments in return for the release of an arrested family member, or to forestall a kidnapping. Prison inmates using smuggled cellular phones often place these calls. Persons receiving such calls should be extremely skeptical since most such demands or threats are baseless, and should contact the U.S. Embassy or closest U.S. consulate, or the Department of State for assistance.

U.S. citizens may refer to A Safe Trip Abroad for ways to promote a trouble-free journey.

Information for Victims of Crime: The loss or theft abroad of a U.S. passport should be reported immediately to the local police and the nearest U.S. Embassy or Consulate. If you are a victim of a crime while overseas, you should report it immediately to the nearest U.S. consular office and make a report to Mexican authorities. Do not rely on hotel/restaurant/tour company management to make the report for you. The Embassy/Consulate staff can, for example, assist you to find appropriate medical care, contact family members or friends and explain how funds can be transferred. Although the investigation and prosecution of the crime is solely the responsibility of local authorities, consular officers can help you to understand the local criminal justice process and to find an attorney if needed. Under the best of circumstances, prosecution is very difficult (a fact some assailants appear to exploit knowingly), but no criminal investigation is possible without a formal complaint to Mexican authorities.

Victims of crime may also report the crime to the Mexican embassy or nearest Mexican consulate after arriving in the United States. Before doing so, please contact the U.S. Embassy or consulate in Mexico for assistance in coordinating with Mexican consular officials to obtain an official appointment for the victim or witness with the Mexican Embassy or consulate. Travelers are encouraged to report crimes as soon as possible. Delays in reporting the crime may hinder or even prevent prosecution in some cases.

Crime in Mexico City: In Mexico City, the most frequently reported crimes involving tourists are taxi robbery (see below), armed robbery, pick pocketing, and purse-snatching. In several cases, tourists have reported that men in uniforms perpetrated the crime, stopping vehicles and seeking money, or assaulting and robbing tourists walking late at night. As in any large city, individuals should exercise caution and be aware of their surroundings, especially when walking anywhere in the city.

Business travelers should be aware that theft occurs even in what appears to be secure locations. Theft of such items as briefcases and laptops occur frequently at the Benito Juarez International Airport and at business-class hotels. Arriving travelers who need to obtain pesos at the airport should use the exchange counters or ATMs in the arrival/departure gate area, where access is restricted, rather than changing money after passing through Customs, where they can be observed by criminals.

Exercise caution when utilizing credit or debit cards in ATM machines or dubious locales. There have been reports of instances in which U.S. citizens in Mexico have had their card numbers ?skimmed? and the money in their debit accounts stolen or their credit cards fraudulently charged. (?Skimming? is the theft of credit card information by an employee of a legitimate merchant or bank, manually copying down numbers or using a magnetic stripe reader.) In addition to skimming, the risk of physical theft of credit or debit cards also exists. To prevent such theft, the Embassy recommends that travelers keep close track of their personal belongings when out and about and that they only carry that which is needed. If travelers choose to use credit cards, they should regularly check their account status to ensure its integrity.

Metro (subway) robberies are frequent in Mexico City. If riding the Metro or the city bus system, U.S. citizens should take extreme care with valuables and belongings. Avoid using Metro during busy commuting hours in the morning or afternoon. Tourists and residents alike should avoid driving alone at night anywhere in Mexico City.

Robbery and assault on passengers in taxis are frequent and violent in Mexico City, with passengers subjected to beating, shooting, and sexual assault. U.S. citizens visiting Mexico City should avoid taking any taxi not summoned by telephone or contacted in advance. When in need of a taxi, telephone a radio taxi or "sitio" (regulated taxi stand ? pronounced "C-T-O"), and ask the dispatcher for the driver's name and the cab's license plate number. Ask the hotel concierge or other responsible individual to write down the license plate number of the cab that you entered. Avoid ?libre? taxis and the Volkswagen beetle taxis altogether. Although ?libre? taxis are more convenient and less expensive, these are less regulated, may be unregistered, and are potentially more dangerous.

Passengers arriving at Mexico City's Benito Juarez International Airport should take only airport taxis (which are white with a yellow stripe and a black airplane symbol) after pre-paying the fare at one of the special booths inside the airport.

Crime in Cancun, Acapulco, and Other Resort Areas: There have been a significant number of rapes reported in Cancun and other resort areas. Many of these have occurred at night or in the early morning. Attacks have also occurred on deserted beaches and in hotel rooms. Acquaintance rape is a serious problem. In other cases, hotel workers, taxi drivers, and security personnel have been implicated. Please refer to our information for Victims of Crime.

Drug-related violence, including shooting and kidnapping, has increased in Acapulco. Although this violence is not targeted at foreign residents or tourists, U.S. citizens in these areas should be vigilant in their personal safety.

See the information at travel.state.gov regarding Spring Break in Mexico if you are considering visiting Mexican resort areas during February through March when thousands of US college students traditionally arrive in those areas. Additional information designed specifically for traveling students is available at studentsabroad.state.gov.

Crime in Border Cities: Visitors to the U.S. ? Mexico border region, including cities such as Tijuana, Ciudad Juarez, Nuevo Laredo, Nogales, Reynosa, Matamoros, and Monterrey, should remain alert and be aware of their surroundings at all times.

Some border cities have seen an increase in violence over the past year, some of which has been directed against U.S. citizens. Local police forces have been ineffective in maintaining security in some regions along the border. Drug-related violence has increased dramatically in recent months, and shows no sign of abating. While U.S. citizens not involved in criminal activities are generally not targeted, innocent bystanders are at risk from the increase in violence in the streets of border cities.

In Ciudad Juarez, Monterrey, Nuevo Laredo, and Tijuana, shootings have taken place at busy intersections and at popular restaurants during daylight hours. The wave of violence has been aimed primarily at members of drug-trafficking organizations, criminal justice officials, and journalists. However, foreign visitors and residents, including U.S. citizens, have been among the victims of homicide and kidnapping in the border region. U.S. citizens are urged to be especially aware of safety and security concerns when visiting the border region and exercise commonsense precautions such as visiting only legitimate business and tourist areas of border towns during daylight hours. U.S. citizens who frequently make routine visits to border cities should vary their routes and times and are urged to park in well-lighted, paid, and guarded parking lots. Exercise caution when entering or exiting your vehicle and instruct all fellow travelers to enter and exit the vehicle safely and quickly.

Mexican authorities have failed to prosecute numerous crimes committed against U.S. citizens, including murder and kidnapping. Local police forces suffer from a lack of funds and training, and the judicial system is weak, overworked, and inefficient. Criminals, armed with an impressive array of weapons, know there is little chance they will be caught and punished. In some cases, assailants have been wearing full or partial police uniforms and have used vehicles that resemble police vehicles, indicating some elements of the police might be involved.

Visitors are very vulnerable when visiting the local "red-light districts," particularly if they are departing alone in the early hours of the morning. In Ciudad Juarez and Tijuana, there has also been a rise in automobile accidents in which municipal police extort money from U.S. citizen victims.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_970.html

 

[VirusType2]

Police NEVER do this. Huge mistake. Police are taught that if they fire their weapon it is to kill. SPECIFICALLY not to "wound." You dont even know what you're talking about. Shooting to wound is utterly retarded.

No you don't know what your talking about.


State law authorizes the use of deadly force by sworn law enforcement personnel.
N.C. General Statute ?15A-401(d)(2) - A law enforcement officer is justified in using
deadly physical force upon another person when it is or appears to be reasonably
necessary to defend himself/herself or a third person from what he/she reasonably
believes to be the use or imminent use of deadly physical force.
Contrary to popular opinion, law enforcement officers are not trained to ?shoot to kill.?
According to Garner Police Lieutenant Paul Shambaugh, a State certified Firearms
Instructor, police officers are trained to shoot ?center mass? or human torso region when
using deadly force. The intent is not to kill, but to stop the threat as quickly as possible.

Lieutenant Shambaugh also said the following

"If a person is trying to seriously injure or kill you, the quickest way to stop them from
doing so is to target areas of the body containing vital organs. Not all, but most vital
organs are in the torso region of the body. Precision shooting of extremities is
problematic for several reasons. First, a direct hit to an arm or leg may not stop the
pending threat. Second, arms and legs are much smaller targets and probably moving
during the situation. Your chances of missing an arm or leg is significantly higher than
the torso. A missed target may also endanger innocent by-standers. Last, but not least,
the stress associated with most deadly force encounters decreases fine and complex
motor skill performance. Officers usually have just enough time to react. Aiming
becomes a luxury rarely allowed in deadly force situations. We never want anyone to be
killed, but it can happen."

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cach...rained+shoot+to+kill&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us

You don't think anybody should have guns anyway, so your point is stupid. Have fun when your house is robbed and you can't do a god damn thing about it but weep in the corner.

what? you don't know the first thing about me. I am a gun owner and a member of the NRA. I just think self admitted drug dealing gangsters like yourself shouldn't be allowed to have guns.

And then RakuraiTenjin was the bad guys.

I don't worry about people breaking in and robbing my house because I live in America, not in an action movie.

I am not going to lunge at a home invader with a knife, I am going to put as many rounds as possible as quickly as possible into the center mass. If we're talking about protecting my property then yes, I will do exactly that REGARDLESS of the laws.

Lol. You are truly a piece of shit if you keep that attitude about human life. Have fun in jail with 'Big Bubba'. Maybe you are Big Bubba.

just kidding umbre.

Just woke up; I'll get back to the other stuff.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

I've never been convicted of a crime. I don't see how drugs or drug policy even relates to this discussion. That crime is not one of violence nor has victims.

Putting as many rounds as possible into center mass until a threat is stopped is another way of saying killing. Of course they're not going to say "trained to kill" but no one is trained to wound in an extremity, etc. You aim for center mass and pump as many rounds as quickly and accurately as possible until the target drops. If you dont think thats another way of saying killing the target you're deluding yourself.

Maybe you live in a nice neighborhood and don't have to worry about being robbed, not all of us are so lucky. Either way I showed you that at least where I live I'm legally justified in this, so there is no "have fun in jail"

Yes, if guns are outlawed I will still keep mine. I don't care what the laws say. As a claimed NRA member I'm sure you'll recognize this quote -"From my cold, dead hands."

My attitude on human life is that my family's life, wealth, property, and safety comes above an outsider's. Maybe you don't agree with that, but I do and the law supports me. I aim to keep the law that way with my vote.

 

[Eejit]

My attitude on human life is that my family's, wealth, property, comes above an outsider's life.

Clarified.

You're scum.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Clarified.

You're scum.

You're cum for being willing to take means of self defense away from innocent people. Changing what I say to what you wish I said doesn't make it so.

 

[Eejit]

You said it, I just cut some words from the middle to make it more concise. That meaning was there all along.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Either way you're a moron if you'd let someone rob you and your family blind of your possessions, life, and dignity. Good thing you have no say in the matter here anyway.

Would you dare to come near me, my family, or my shit knowing what you know about me and what I'll do? Most wouldn't, and that's the way it should be. The law supports me in this and always should.

 

[Eejit]

It's actually impossible for the police to catch criminals, amirite?

Also, no such thing as insurance against theft.


**** it, let's just kill human beings!

 

[unozero]

Clarified.

You're scum.

troll alert.



rakurai just ignore this dumbass.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

It's actually impossible for the police to catch criminals, amirite?

Also, no such thing as insurance against theft.


**** it, let's just kill human beings!

Not everyone has property insurance kid, nor is everything covered under all insurance policies.

Yes, I will use deadly force against someone attempting to commit one of the listed felonies against me that I posted above per Arizona law.

 

[Cornerstone]

Yea killing robbers, absolutely no hypocrisy there...

 

[VirusType2]

Yehawww. Gringos up in here don't know jack about us Americuns. I keep my six shooter on my hip, my assault rifle in my truck, and my bible in my glove box.'


Go ahead, make my day.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3a/Sudden-impact-10.jpg

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Yea killing robbers, absolutely no hypocrisy there...

It's not about any moral righteousness it's about protecting my shit. Killing someone isn't cool nor badass. It's a situation you're put into at times and you've got to deal with it and the results.

 

[Cornerstone]

So you are admitting your choice is the moral wrong?

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

No, it's not the 'moral wrong' in ANY way, nor is it a 'moral right.'

It's not a question of morality it's one of legality.

 

[Eejit]

Nothing is ever just a question of legality. Especially not taking someone's life.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Nothing is ever just a question of legality. Especially not taking someone's life.

So laws written regarding this exact issue to protect citizens using deadly force to prevent such crimes don't matter.

Ridiculous

I don't know what the hell kind of sheltered life you live, but I think a little life experience with life or death issues from other people would change your tune.