Obama Proposes Renewed Militia

[RakuraiTenjin]

seriously what options do you have?

1. go on a bad cop killing spree with your semiauto
2. join some party and change the law
3. just move out of there

all options are not pretty, but what...what do you propose?

The entire time I've been saying and proposing #2 before it escalates to #1

#3 will never happen, sorry.


It's a nationwide problem, not just this area dude.

 

[jverne]

The entire time I've been saying and proposing #2 before it escalates to #1

#3 will never happen, sorry.

yea sure...but what would you change in the law?

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

yea sure...but what would you change in the law?

I thought I've made this clear in many many posts. I support the libertarian platform.


http://www.lp.org/platform


Any laws that conflict with this platform need to be repealed (unlikely) or slowly but surely legislated out of existance slowly (very possible and can be done)



Either way the police were wrong legally in that situation anyway. But it's a matter of in court my word vs them. It doesn't work out like it should and thats just life man.


At least cops have to be scared I might blow them away before they pull shit like that (not that I would, the point is they wont pull that kinda shit).


They just had the advantage of having 3 squad cars and 5 officers that time.

 

[jverne]

I thought I've made this clear in many many posts. I support the libertarian platform.


http://www.lp.org/platform


Any laws that conflict with this platform need to be repealed (unlikely) or slowly but surely legislated out of existance slowly (very possible and can be done)

looks interesting...will give it a read tomorrow.


before i even read it...i suspect there will be incompatibilities in some areas, like ecology for instance...but i have to read it first.


edit:

2.2 Environment

We support a clean and healthy environment and sensible use of our natural resources. Private landowners and conservation groups have a vested interest in maintaining natural resources. Pollution and misuse of resources cause damage to our ecosystem. Governments, unlike private businesses, are unaccountable for such damage done to our environment and have a terrible track record when it comes to environmental protection. Protecting the environment requires a clear definition and enforcement of individual rights in resources like land, water, air, and wildlife. Free markets and property rights stimulate the technological innovations and behavioral changes required to protect our environment and ecosystems. We realize that our planet's climate is constantly changing, but environmental advocates and social pressure are the most effective means of changing public behavior.

hah...this is so terribly vague. free market and the environment are not best buddies.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Its a great platform. The Libertarian candidate for President is Bob Barr. Not going to win- but if they get enough percantage of the vote the party gets federal funding.

Libertarian candidates win local elections and smaller posts all the time, and its always an increasing amount. This is where change can really happen with local laws and such and it needs to take place.

People always think its ridiculous to vote third party until I explain how many elections besides President that the libertarian party wins.

 

[theotherguy]

Civilian militias belong in the past.

And by the past, I mean pre-civil war.

Weapons and technology are so advanced and expensive these days that only the government is capable of funding and supporting armies.

The federal government would absolutely crush a civilian army in the US. Sure, if there was a revolution, there would be resistance and insurgency, but there would not be any open fighting in which civilian militias would win. The civilian militias would not be able to take over the government unless they were able to recruit branches of the real military.

Sorry, but civilian militias are just excuses for hicks to load up on firepower and commit brutal atrocities and vigilante justice.

 

[Thandurin]

looks interesting...will give it a read tomorrow.


before i even read it...i suspect there will be incompatibilities in some areas, like ecology for instance...but i have to read it first.


edit:



hah...this is so terribly vague. free market and the environment are not best buddies.

I always thought the platforms of the Constitution and Libertarian parties a little off myself but strictly speaking they are far better than the alternatives. I'd rather a party in power that isn't going to tax you up the ass to maintain a large global presence while chipping away at the Constitution that our country is based off of. We're choosing between the lesser of two evils already anyways, there isn't a great deal to loose.

 

[Eejit]

Agreed theotherguy, as I said in another thread (possibly another one by RT they're all a blur),

A volunteer militia are never going to be able to defeat a modern army. This isn't the 18th century. The disparity between militaries and weaponry available to civilians is now insurmountable.
In the 18th century there were infantry with relatively simple weapons, relatively simple artillery pieces, and cavalry. All easy enough for a rebellion to manufacture and use.
Today you'd be up against tanks, long range artillery, and bomber jets.

Iraqi and Afghan insurgents seem to have firearms. How well exactly are they doing against the US army?
Inflicting some casualties, yes, but any closer to 'driving out the invaders'?

 

[jet_porkins]

It's about abuse of police power that runs rampant today.

Ever been beaten? Burned?

One time they burned my homies and my hands bad with the engine of their car. Made us all put our hands on it, then laughed when they turned on the engine and it began to get hot as ****. You can guess what happened to anyone that took their hands off.

All this for walking down the street and one person looked under 18 (they werent anyway)

I believe it.

 

[Top Secret]

And? Patrol in Modesto LOL.

Modesto is considered the Methamphetamine capital of California and ranks in the top for car theft and car jacking in the United States.

"the ten metropolitan statistical areas with the highest vehicle theft rates are:"

1. Modesto, Calif.
2. Las Vegas/Paradise, Nev.
3. Stockton, Calif.
4. Phoenix/Mesa/Scottsdale, Ariz.
5. Visalia/Porterville, Calif.
6. Seattle/Tacoma/Bellevue, Wash.
7. Sacramento/Arden-Arcade/Roseville, Calif.
8. San Diego/Carlsbad/San Marcos, Calif.
9. Fresno, Calif.
10. Yakima, Wash.

Notice Arizona is a few down on that list?

Hell, our neighboring city of Stockton is higher.

Nine years ago, 70 Meth labs were raided in Modesto. That's one meth lab every five days. For a year straight.

What was Modesto rated out of 373 city's in America for quality of life and crime?

373.

Last. The Worst out of almost 400 city's. Patrol in Mo-town is statistically more dangerous than LA or Oakland.

And? Patrol in Modesto LOL.

"LOL" Idiot.

You lied, I called you on it, deal with it.

You never were made to "put my hands on an engine".

 

[justin.walters01]

Civilian militias belong in the past.

And by the past, I mean pre-civil war.

Weapons and technology are so advanced and expensive these days that only the government is capable of funding and supporting armies.

The federal government would absolutely crush a civilian army in the US. Sure, if there was a revolution, there would be resistance and insurgency, but there would not be any open fighting in which civilian militias would win. The civilian militias would not be able to take over the government unless they were able to recruit branches of the real military.

Sorry, but civilian militias are just excuses for hicks to load up on firepower and commit brutal atrocities and vigilante justice.

The point isn't to actively combat government forces. The point is to make it hard for the government to implement the policies which would cause the suspension of citizen's rights. I also noticed how you said that the only way a resistance could prevail is by enlisting the help of parts of the military who are unloyal to the new tyrannical government. This is very possible. A lot of marines and law enforcement officers I've spoken to are libertarians and are completely against big government. A civilian uprising in this country, even unorganized, would have a large possibility of subduing the government. Plus, if it came down to it, it would end in guerrilla warfare; Vietnam style.

 

[jverne]

The point isn't to actively combat government forces. The point is to make it hard for the government to implement the policies which would cause the suspension of citizen's rights. I also noticed how you said that the only way a resistance could prevail is by enlisting the help of parts of the military who are unloyal to the new tyrannical government. This is very possible. A lot of marines and law enforcement officers I've spoken to are libertarians and are completely against big government. A civilian uprising in this country, even unorganized, would have a large possibility of subduing the government. Plus, if it came down to it, it would end in guerrilla warfare; Vietnam style.

oh please...civil uprising...yeah that will happen. the assault rifle wielding nuts are too busy shooting squirrels than taking the fight to the government. lol

 

[CptStern]

The point isn't to actively combat government forces. The point is to make it hard for the government to implement the policies which would cause the suspension of citizen's rights. I also noticed how you said that the only way a resistance could prevail is by enlisting the help of parts of the military who are unloyal to the new tyrannical government.

this sounds like some gun advocate's fantasy ..a tyrranical government? you mean moreso then bush? he rammed right through your rights and most americans didnt bat an eyelash much less organise to take down the government ..I mean what exactly are you thinking this will entail? Iran takes over the government? some secret muslim is elected into government and then reveals his plan to convert america to an islamic state? this is never going to happen ..the US is nto going to taken over by a tyrant because the presidsent is just a figure head ..so unless you think the president and congress will become tyrannical this is completely unrealisitic ..and even so, even if the rulers were tyrants what makes you think you wouldnt automatically be branded terrorists or traitors tryingto overthrow the government? if they can convince you that acountry that was by far the weakest state in the middle east was an immiment threat against the US what makes you think you have a chance? if there's anything americans hate more than aye-rrabs it's traitors

any thought to the contrary is just ego stroking; you wouldnt last a week

oh and did you join this site just to add your gun advocacy to the mix? which one of our gun advocates invited you?

 

[Kase]

The point isn't to actively combat government forces. The point is to make it hard for the government to implement the policies which would cause the suspension of citizen's rights. I also noticed how you said that the only way a resistance could prevail is by enlisting the help of parts of the military who are unloyal to the new tyrannical government. This is very possible. A lot of marines and law enforcement officers I've spoken to are libertarians and are completely against big government. A civilian uprising in this country, even unorganized, would have a large possibility of subduing the government. Plus, if it came down to it, it would end in guerrilla warfare; Vietnam style.

i think if there was a civil uprising it would be flatend in a matter of days-weeks:bounce:

 

[CptStern]

I dont think it would even get to that point ..no political movement in the US stays unnoticed for long, the FBI would infiltrate it long before they ever got to the point of actually doing something with their guns that doesnt involve the shooting of helpless animals/pop cans

 

[jverne]

this sounds like some gun advocate's fantasy ..a tyrranical government? you mean moreso then bush? he rammed right through your rights and most americans didnt bat an eyelash much less organise to take down the government ..I mean what exactly are you thinking this will entail? Iran takes over the government? some secret muslim is elected into government and then reveals his plan to convert america to an islamic state? this is never going to happen ..the US is nto going to taken over by a tyrant because the presidsent is just a figure head ..so unless you think the president and congress will become tyrannical this is completely unrealisitic ..and even so, even if the rulers were tyrants what makes you think you wouldnt automatically be branded terrorists or traitors tryingto overthrow the government? if they can convince you that acountry that was by far the weakest state in the middle east was an immiment threat against the US what makes you think you have a chance? if there's anything americans hate more than aye-rrabs it's traitors

any thought to the contrary is just ego stroking; you wouldnt last a week

oh and did you join this site just to add your gun advocacy to the mix? which one of our gun advocates invited you?

i have much the same thoughts.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Modesto is considered the Methamphetamine capital of California and ranks in the top for car theft and car jacking in the United States.

"the ten metropolitan statistical areas with the highest vehicle theft rates are:"

1. Modesto, Calif.
2. Las Vegas/Paradise, Nev.
3. Stockton, Calif.
4. Phoenix/Mesa/Scottsdale, Ariz.
5. Visalia/Porterville, Calif.
6. Seattle/Tacoma/Bellevue, Wash.
7. Sacramento/Arden-Arcade/Roseville, Calif.
8. San Diego/Carlsbad/San Marcos, Calif.
9. Fresno, Calif.
10. Yakima, Wash.

Notice Arizona is a few down on that list? [ /QUOTE]
And? You have high vehicle theft. That doesnt relate to anything I've been talking about. A lot of tweakers doesn't mean much either. Most of your meth is exported westward.

"LOL" Idiot.

You lied, I called you on it, deal with it.

You never were made to "put my hands on an engine".

"LOL" moron.


You never called me on shit, because I didn't lie about shit. It was on the hood, obviously, not the engine if that's what you thought. Shit WAS hot as **** and yes it did leave blisters. Those who took their hands off (just hovering them) got roughed up.

Nice try to sound big, guy. This shit does happen and the things I've talked about DID. Like I said there's been shit that I've brought on myself but I dont even mention those. These incidents were true abuse by the LVPD in Laughlin (they werent even in their own city, they were there for the event)

You might not like that I have this story but trying to say "LOL YOU LIED" doesnt make it so. GTFO

 

[Sir Phoenixx]

It was on the hood, obviously, not the engine if that's what you thought. Shit WAS hot as **** and yes it did leave blisters. Those who took their hands off (just hovering them) got roughed up.

Well, I can see how he would think that, since at first you did say they made you put your hands on the engine...

So it was late at night, their car's engine had been off, and they made you keep your hands on the hood and turned the engine on until your hands got second degree burns? Doesn't sound plausible at all. First of all, the hood of a car wouldn't get that hot from just having the engine on, maybe a little warm to the touch after several hours of actually driving around, but not from just having the engine on, especially at night. You could possibly have been burned if it was the middle of the day, in the middle of summer, regardless of if the engine was on or not.

 

[Kase]

neee naw neeee naw woooo ooo wooo ooo thats the bs alarm going off

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Don't know what else to say, I can only tell you whats happened. It's not my problem and I don't really care if you believe it or not. One day you'll have to deal with the same situation and you won't be spouting its a lie then.

I find it funny how you all are so hard on defending such flagrant abuse of power because it happened to me, when if it happened to someone you agree with politically you'd be up in arms.

 

[Saturos]

The point isn't to actively combat government forces. The point is to make it hard for the government to implement the policies which would cause the suspension of citizen's rights. I also noticed how you said that the only way a resistance could prevail is by enlisting the help of parts of the military who are unloyal to the new tyrannical government. This is very possible. A lot of marines and law enforcement officers I've spoken to are libertarians and are completely against big government. A civilian uprising in this country, even unorganized, would have a large possibility of subduing the government. Plus, if it came down to it, it would end in guerrilla warfare; Vietnam style.

I've heard that the U.S. Marines defend the constitution first, then president, even though they are called the president's own. I don't know how true that may hold though. It's what my father being a former Marine said anyways.

The US Army on the other hand is wholly a US politician's weapon.

If an uprising was to occur in the US, first the National Guard. Then if they send in the Marines, it's time to grab the "oh shit" handle and hang on, because some serious s*** is going down, and then you'll know the country's in serious political trouble.

 

[Pesmerga]

Dammit Saturos, reading your writing is akin to petting a buzz saw.

 

[Saturos]

Dammit Saturos, reading your writing is akin to petting a buzz saw.

I'm sorry to hear you have SLD. Keep trying, eventually this "reading" thing will come naturally to you. I promise. :>

 

[Top Secret]

Modesto is considered the Methamphetamine capital of California and ranks in the top for car theft and car jacking in the United States.

"the ten metropolitan statistical areas with the highest vehicle theft rates are:"

1. Modesto, Calif.
2. Las Vegas/Paradise, Nev.
3. Stockton, Calif.
4. Phoenix/Mesa/Scottsdale, Ariz.
5. Visalia/Porterville, Calif.
6. Seattle/Tacoma/Bellevue, Wash.
7. Sacramento/Arden-Arcade/Roseville, Calif.
8. San Diego/Carlsbad/San Marcos, Calif.
9. Fresno, Calif.
10. Yakima, Wash.

Notice Arizona is a few down on that list? [ /QUOTE]
And? You have high vehicle theft. That doesnt relate to anything I've been talking about. A lot of tweakers doesn't mean much either. Most of your meth is exported westward.


"LOL" moron.


You never called me on shit, because I didn't lie about shit. It was on the hood, obviously, not the engine if that's what you thought. Shit WAS hot as **** and yes it did leave blisters. Those who took their hands off (just hovering them) got roughed up.

Nice try to sound big, guy. This shit does happen and the things I've talked about DID. Like I said there's been shit that I've brought on myself but I dont even mention those. These incidents were true abuse by the LVPD in Laughlin (they werent even in their own city, they were there for the event)

You might not like that I have this story but trying to say "LOL YOU LIED" doesnt make it so. GTFO

It would help your case if you originally told the truth and said on the car hood, not the engine. There is a temperature difference of several hundred degrees.

You either lied, or you exaggerated, pick one.

Well, I can see how he would think that, since at first you did say they made you put your hands on the engine...

So it was late at night, their car's engine had been off, and they made you keep your hands on the hood and turned the engine on until your hands got second degree burns? Doesn't sound plausible at all. First of all, the hood of a car wouldn't get that hot from just having the engine on, maybe a little warm to the touch after several hours of actually driving around, but not from just having the engine on, especially at night. You could possibly have been burned if it was the middle of the day, in the middle of summer, regardless of if the engine was on or not.

Actually, this is not the case. An engine hood can quite hot. Especially a non-mobile car. If you think about thermal dynamics, an engine bay is essentially a hot air balloon. With the hood being the top of the balloon where all the hot air is going. Second degree burns are attainable from the hood of a car.

An engine at idle can be in excess of 400 degrees Fahrenheit, with the manifolds/headers being much hotter.

 

[justin.walters01]

this sounds like some gun advocate's fantasy ..a tyrranical government? you mean moreso then bush? he rammed right through your rights and most americans didnt bat an eyelash much less organise to take down the government ..I mean what exactly are you thinking this will entail? Iran takes over the government? some secret muslim is elected into government and then reveals his plan to convert america to an islamic state? this is never going to happen ..the US is nto going to taken over by a tyrant because the presidsent is just a figure head ..so unless you think the president and congress will become tyrannical this is completely unrealisitic ..and even so, even if the rulers were tyrants what makes you think you wouldnt automatically be branded terrorists or traitors tryingto overthrow the government? if they can convince you that acountry that was by far the weakest state in the middle east was an immiment threat against the US what makes you think you have a chance? if there's anything americans hate more than aye-rrabs it's traitors

any thought to the contrary is just ego stroking; you wouldnt last a week

oh and did you join this site just to add your gun advocacy to the mix? which one of our gun advocates invited you?

Alright, you don't have to insult me. No I didn't join this site just to talk about guns, I love Half Life.

You say Bush is a tyrant? Apparently you don't know the meaning of the word. I hate Bush and almost all of his policies, but he is far from a tyrant. When I say tyrant, I mean cameras in your house, national ID cards, the loss of our 2nd amendment and 1st amendment rights, brutal police forces, loss of the right of peaceful assembly, and a national curfew.

You also claim that I believe some radical Islamist is going to "infiltrate" the government? What are you talking about? I didn't say anything like that.

I agree with you that the president is mostly just a figure head, but the office's power is growing. During the period immediately after the 9/11 attacks, Bush requisitioned a bunch of supposedly temporary executive powers so that he could "better finish the task at hand". The president is slowly becoming more and more powerful. All in all, it's not just the president I'm worried about, it's the parties and the millions of ignorant Americans who follow them without question. That is scary.

I hate to use Argumentum Ad Hitlerum here, but everyone thought that Hitler becoming a radical dictator was, as you put it, "unrealistic" at the time. Through clever use of propaganda and party loyalty, I could see one political party easily gaining most of the power in this country and turning it into a Fascist dictatorship.

Maybe I would be branded a terrorist, but I hope I would have the foresight to realize a situation like the above was going to happen in the near future and run out into the woods and hide. Now, I know you think that you can only last in the woods for so long, but I've been studying woodsmanship for more than 10 years and I know that it is very possible. I have the equipment, the will, and the know how to last for at least 2 years before my clothing starts to deteriorate. I would rather live in the woods than in the cities I live in now anyways.

Lastly, your use of "Aye-Rabs" brands you as ignorant and xenophobic. America has plenty of enemies besides the Arabs. I bet that you didn't even know that people from Iran aren't Arab, they are Persian and they speak Farsi, not Arabic.

From what you wrote, I can tell that you are ignorant of the current state of the world, and ignorant of the domestic threats that the average American faces. I don't know what your background is, but depending on what it is, I can probably understand why you are so ignorant on the subjects you claim to know so much about.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

It would help your case if you originally told the truth and said on the car hood, not the engine. There is a temperature difference of several hundred degrees.

I didn't lie in the first place, I didn't realize you thought I LITERALLY meant on the "engine". Obviously you know I meant hood or I'd have said "yeah I got third degree burns and it boiled my ****ing skin off" if it was literally on the engine

Why would the hood be OPEN. Think about standard police procedure and standard "assume the position" (been through it so many times )

I'm not trying to mislead anybody and this DID happen. I'm not exaggerating. I wasn't "beaten" and it wasnt rodney king style. It's still just as much an abuse of power for absolutely NO reason.

 

[jverne]

Actually, this is not the case. An engine hood can quite hot. Especially a non-mobile car. If you think about thermal dynamics, an engine bay is essentially a hot air balloon. With the hood being the top of the balloon where all the hot air is going. Second degree burns are attainable from the hood of a car.

An engine at idle can be in excess of 400 degrees Fahrenheit, with the manifolds/headers being much hotter.

ahahahahhaha...400F or 200C...ahahaha...you must be joking. a reasonable working temperature for a water cooled car is somewhere around 90C. the exhaust pipes can reach 200C, but they are on the lower part of the engine and have decent air circulation.
that a thin hood can get 200C is an exaggerated statement. at that temp you'd see considerable color and material deterioration.

but then again a some hoods can go to 200F or 93C (which is the working temp of the motor).

http://www.allworldauto.com/comments/viewthread.php?cid=638835

but that is obviously a malfunction and the car is a mini which obviously means engine room constraints.

you can get some burns in these rare cases...but not in your average family car. but i don't deny the fact that is can be pretty unpleasant even holding your hand at 60C.
i'm just reacting to your over exaggeration, i'm not denying any facts.

 

[Top Secret]

I didn't lie in the first place, I didn't realize you thought I LITERALLY meant on the "engine". Obviously you know I meant hood or I'd have said "yeah I got third degree burns and it boiled my ****ing skin off" if it was literally on the engine

Why would the hood be OPEN. Think about standard police procedure and standard "assume the position" (been through it so many times )

I'm not trying to mislead anybody and this DID happen. I'm not exaggerating. I wasn't "beaten" and it wasnt rodney king style. It's still just as much an abuse of power for absolutely NO reason.

I suggest you read up on logical fallacies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enthymeme

ahahahahhaha...400F or 200C...ahahaha...you must be joking. a reasonable working temperature for a water cooled car is somewhere around 90C. the exhaust pipes can reach 200C, but they are on the lower part of the engine and have decent air circulation.
that a thin hood can get 200C is an exaggerated statement. at that temp you'd see considerable color and material deterioration.

but then again a some hoods can go to 200F or 93C (which is the working temp of the motor).

http://www.allworldauto.com/comments/viewthread.php?cid=638835

but that is obviously a malfunction and the car is a mini which obviously means engine room constraints.

you can get some burns in these rare cases...but not in your average family car. but i don't deny the fact that is can be pretty unpleasant even holding your hand at 60C.
i'm just reacting to your over exaggeration, i'm not denying any facts.

Ugh, that is the temperature of the WATER. Not the actual temperature of THE ENGINE.

Oil temperature will general be a little bit higher.

However, engine block and CYLINDER HEAD temperatures will be significantly higher!

Right up to 400 Fahrenheit.

Also, headers can EASILY exceed 800 Fahrenheit.

I suggest you get an infrared heat gun, and go check yourself.

Also, I did not say a hood could reach 200C.