Off the wagon...

[Tacoeaterguy]

Doesn't have to be nicey nice, but certain things won't just be ignored. If people are unwilling to even try and act more mature on the forums, they will be dealt with.

Yeah but the thing is, sinkoman could try nicotine nasal spray as well. You need a doctors prescription I believe, but it's very effective from what I've heard. Pretty potent actually.

 

[Krynn72]

On a further note, sinkoman could also try nicotine nasal spray. You need a doctors prescription I believe, but it's very effective from what I've heard.

My question is what is "more mature" behavior? Clearly JossiRossi doesn't think BadHat's joke is mature behavior, so if we make innocent jokes like are we to start getting banned? Because if so I'll be banned in a week and glad of it.

Do you guys remember halflife2.net? That site was cool.

 

[JossiRossi]

I've not even said BadHat's name let alone accused him of anything directly.

There is a culture problem here that in addition to other factors contributes to the fact that people simply don't stick around. There are some users here that are fine, I don't want to make it seem like the whole site is comprised of assholes, but there are enough of them, and they are vocal enough that it's a problem. If people are unable or unwilling to not treat people poorly, then whatever happens happens.

 

[Tacoeaterguy]

I've not even said BadHat's name let alone accused him of anything directly.

There is a culture problem here that in addition to other factors contributes to the fact that people simply don't stick around. There are some users here that are fine, I don't want to make it seem like the whole site is comprised of assholes, but there are enough of them, and they are vocal enough that it's a problem. If people are unable or unwilling to not treat people poorly, then whatever happens happens.

I agree wholeheartedly. Nicotine gum is overpriced, and we're not denying that. The thing is, people need to stop shopping at expensive pharmacy stores when they buy the gum. You can find the off-brand stuff at any Walmart, and you can buy it in bulk at any Costco. It's all about where you look, and how you interpret the prices. The gum should still be an option of nicotine therapy, even if some people don't like it or think it's unreasonable.

Edit: Also, how often do you exercise sinko? Try doing some intense physical activities to get your mind off of cravings.

 

[Mogi67]

I've not even said BadHat's name let alone accused him of anything directly.

There is a culture problem here that in addition to other factors contributes to the fact that people simply don't stick around. There are some users here that are fine, I don't want to make it seem like the whole site is comprised of assholes, but there are enough of them, and they are vocal enough that it's a problem. If people are unable or unwilling to not treat people poorly, then whatever happens happens.

To be honest, there's not much of a reason to stick around these days. Most people aren't interested in discussing things related to Valve since not much is really happening (that we know about, other than the steambox/linux business).

I am sure that once/if Valve announces a new game or releases Half-Life related news that this site will pick back up. But right now there's nothing to distinguish Valvetime from any other gaming site. I agree that some posters here generally have negative/hostile attitudes, though.

 

[Mogi67]

I agree wholeheartedly. Nicotine gum is overpriced, and we're not denying that. The thing is, people need to stop shopping at expensive pharmacy stores when they buy the gum. You can find the off-brand stuff at any Walmart, and you can buy it in bulk at any Costco. It's all about where you look, and how you interpret the prices. The gum should still be an option of nicotine therapy, even if some people don't like it or think it's unreasonable.

Edit: Also, how often do you exercise sinko? Try doing some intense physical activities to get your mind off of cravings.

E-cigs are the way to go, in my opinion. In addition to nicotine delivery, the user also gets the physical sensation of smoking. Since there is such a wide variety of brands and flavors available, as well as the possibility for custom made devices and liquids, "vaping" can become a hobby all on it's own. Quitting smoking is fun again!

 

[Omnomnick]

Do you guys remember halflife2.net? That site was cool.

Yeah it was cool. And dead, completely stone dead. You guys might complain that the forums are quiet these days, but holy hell was the site unpopular before the re-brand.

E-cigs are the way to go, in my opinion.

Are they free to download?

 

[Krynn72]

Yeah it was cool. And dead, completely stone dead. You guys might complain that the forums are quiet these days, but holy hell was the site unpopular before the re-brand.

I haven't noticed a shred of difference, except we got that slamchest guy now.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

...also I really like this bomb ass XenForo forum software.

 

[Stylo]

tl;dr your all fat

I much prefer the term 'Generously Proportioned' if it's all the same to you.

 

[Omnomnick]

I haven't noticed a shred of difference, except we got that slamchest guy now.

Look at it this way - there was a reason the site staff decided to rebrand with a new name which wasn't as limiting as the old one.

 

[MFL]

Yeah, now we can talk about Dota 2.

 

[Stigmata]

Incidentally, playing Dota 2 will only make you want to smoke even more.

 

[ktimekiller]

I think we can say with all degree of certainty that you guys are all dicks and I need to smoke to relieve this stress.

 

[Krynn72]

Look at it this way - there was a reason the site staff decided to rebrand with a new name which wasn't as limiting as the old one.

Ah, so it was the name that was holding the site back, I see. And you know, when I look at the numbers, I can really see how it's taken off since then!

Spoiler

 

[Tollbooth Willie]

You seem to be having difficulty with the idea that you will not be allowed to be a jerk with impunity.

You seem to be having difficulty with the idea that I don't give a flying shit. If you have a problem with me, ban the shit out of me. I'm not changing my behavior of the last several years and I doubt anyone else will just because one person had a problem with a non-aggressive comment.

Holy shit guys later I'm gonna need to be drunk a while.

 

[Vegeta897]

Here are some facts:

1. The forum is unpopular lately because that's what happens to internet forums in 2013 about a game developer that doesn't have much to discuss (until hl3 or a new game is afoot)
1b. It is not because of any 'attitudes'. You're letting a few squeeky wheels warp your perception of reality here. You can not prove that people are choosing not to register after seeing how we talk to eachother on here. That's not even how new people join forums; they usually have a specific question to ask, or topic they want to discuss, which they will sign up to post.
2. You can't tell a bunch of people who have been community members for years, who are keeping the site alive, how to act. Especially when you yourself do not have as much experience being a part of this community as we do. And please don't try to claim that you do. It's naive and insulting. I've been posting here actively without any breaks for over 9 years, and everyone else here who is a long time member disagrees with your idea of "improving" the forum.

I have to have some amount of dignity here. I've contributed massively to this forum's activity and made a lot of friends. I've organized group gaming events in here and in the steam chatroom. I treat members new and old with an attitude that you're trying to say is a problem that needs to be fixed. Sorry, but you can't make that call. You may be on the staff but you actually do not have the tie to the community that I have to tell me that I'm wrong and you're right. Every other member with more experience on this forum than you is all the support I need to say this confidently. Trying to tell all of us that we need to change our act for you is an outright insult, and like Stig says, is the opposite of helping the forum.

 

[Bad^Hat]

If you make a rude joke to someone you've known for a long time that is one thing. To take jabs at people you don't really know, that's of course going to be interpreted the way Rorschach did.

The problem is not that there are assholes here. The problem is that they treat EVERYONE that way. That can't be tolerated.

Rorschach has been a member here for more than 9 months now. That means he's post-natal. When, praytell, should I be allowed to treat him like "everyone else."

I've not even said BadHat's name let alone accused him of anything directly.

I mean you were pretty clearly talking about me in that last post but alright.

There is a culture problem here that in addition to other factors contributes to the fact that people simply don't stick around. There are some users here that are fine, I don't want to make it seem like the whole site is comprised of assholes, but there are enough of them, and they are vocal enough that it's a problem. If people are unable or unwilling to not treat people poorly, then whatever happens happens.

I thought you just said the problem wasn't that there were assholes here.

So, to clarify, is the problem that we're treating everyone the same by not considering the target of our comments? Is it that the culture is giving us an outwardly hostile appearance, which is causing newer members to react poorly to said comments? Or is it that we "pile on" these newer members after they react, no matter how vitriolic or uncalled for their reaction happens to be? Which cog in the machine needs to be tweaked in order for you to be happy with our image?

 

[Stigmata]

There is a culture problem here that in addition to other factors contributes to the fact that people simply don't stick around.

"There is a culture I don't understand here and find impenetrable. This is unique to ValveTime, and the forum's decline has nothing to do with the actions taken by the content/moderation team, the non-engaging content our site produces, or the lack of any Half-Life media of any real significance for upwards of four years. Because of this, people who make jokes that I don't find funny will be met with warnings and bans. Enjoy your stay here at NotalkTime."

This is what I'm getting, mostly from you and in shades from other staff members. Are you really, honestly trying to grab at some hypothetical "new userbase" while simultaneously throwing out the people who are already here? This kind of strategy DOES NOT find success no matter the context. It never works. If you're going to micromanage the community and try to shape into something "friendly" or "nice" to people who don't even come here to begin with, you might as well delete the entire site and start over with yet another rebranding.

I'm practically autistic and even I realise that this top-down imposition of will breaks communities and makes the place seem even more impenetrable to newbies than before. I hate to be "that guy", but you've been here less than four years. Myself and others have been here for a decade. You don't get to tell us how to act just because you're buddy-buddy with other staff and contribute your voice to TalkTime. "Not being a jerk" goes both ways, and by acting like you know more about this community than the people who are actually a part of it, you've already made yourself out to be far more of a jerk than one person has been to one other person (which didn't even ****ing happen in the first place).

 

[JossiRossi]

You guys are pretty hilarious.

But that's ok, long as you treat people with respect there won't be any issues. Nice and simple.

 

[sinkoman]

Is Jossi a moderator or something? Why does it even matter what he thinks of the community? Look at Pi ffs. He's like a pissed off, balding, sarcastic poster child for the "community", and he waves his ban hammer around like a big, floppy, sarcastic cock.

This whole situation reminds me of the spring break, when I met a good friend's girlfriend for the first time, and it took me a while to figure out that her ****ish attitude was nothing more than a form of endearment. Well, except for the fact that i'd hardly consider BadHat's behavior to be "****ish".

I agree wholeheartedly. Nicotine gum is overpriced, and we're not denying that. The thing is, people need to stop shopping at expensive pharmacy stores when they buy the gum. You can find the off-brand stuff at any Walmart, and you can buy it in bulk at any Costco. It's all about where you look, and how you interpret the prices. The gum should still be an option of nicotine therapy, even if some people don't like it or think it's unreasonable.

Edit: Also, how often do you exercise sinko? Try doing some intense physical activities to get your mind off of cravings.

Man after my own heart; Tacoeater, I loled pretty hard reading your posts.

I typically ride my bike to work on a daily basis, and I try to get a good 1-3 hours of straight riding in on my lunch break or after work. I also typically try to get a couple of all-day rides in during the week, but like I said, I rolled my ankle so that's not gonna be happening for a few more weeks. I'm gonna be really busy with some projects and work for the two weeks or so though, so it's actually not too much of a bad thing for me to have both my body and my mind off of my bike right now. Most of my friends who ride smoke too, so it's hard for me to tell whether or not it'd help with the addiction.

E-cigs are the way to go, in my opinion. In addition to nicotine delivery, the user also gets the physical sensation of smoking. Since there is such a wide variety of brands and flavors available, as well as the possibility for custom made devices and liquids, "vaping" can become a hobby all on it's own. Quitting smoking is fun again!

I think this is what it's gonna come down to, because i'm pretty deep into the hole right now. I bought a pack yesterday and i'm already down to only 6 (and they're 100s too... ****...). Like I said too, now is a really bad time for me to be fighting an addiction, because of all the aforementioned projects. The last time I quit cold turkey, I had to disappear from the world for a good week or so, and it was still a bit of time before I was really "myself". I'm definitely getting to the point though, where i'm fed up with my lungs feeling like shit all day. Last night I was coughing up all sorts of crap in bed, and it was a pretty heavy reminder of why I left the things in the first place.

Sorry for the shitty derail. Hope you manage to kick the habit if you want, sinko. Or not if you decide it's not really important. The vital thing is to try not to let yourself associate your habit with every other problem or inadequacy you're experiencing. That's a shitty cycle of thinking to get into which will only reinforce the habit and make you feel worse about it, which you can then only relieve by engaging in it because you start to feel powerless to break the cycle yourself. I'm not saying this to discourage you from quitting, just saying not to let it become too much of a negative force in your life whether you quit or not.

Anyway, this is probably pretty rote stuff as I've never had to deal with any bad physical addictions, only psychological vices that I let myself get out of hand.

Not rote at all if you ask me, and either way, sometimes it's ok to state the obvious.

In any case, I think this is exactly where I stand right now. I did a lot of thinking about this the other night, and came to the conclusion that this whole chapter is tinted with self pity, and that I really need to grow the **** up, re-kick this damned habit, and stop feeling so ****ing sorry for myself.

 

[Stigmata]

You can do it, man. You got the whole crew behind you!

Also, you could try looking into melatonin supplements. I've read some anecdotal reports of it helping to manage nicotine addiction (as well as with alcoholism though that's neither here nor there).

 

[morgs]

This thread really went up in smoke.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

My ban hammer is always massively erect, I'll have you know.

 

[Rorschach120]

My ban hammer is always massively erect, I'll have you know.

I just died.


ALSO: I was chillin with some people (wasted) and smoked a cigarette. Yeah. Everyone on this forum is doomed. There was some badass funk music though, this dude was singing and burnin on the keys at the same time.

Yeah we're all doomed.

 

[Omnomnick]

Ah, so it was the name that was holding the site back, I see. And you know, when I look at the numbers, I can really see how it's taken off since then!
-image-

Still a lot more active than 2010 and 2011 that's for sure, especially if you consider social networking stuff and YouTube, which were pretty much non-entities on the old site.

My ban hammer is always massively erect, I'll have you know.

Might wanna get that seen to, it can't be healthy.

 

[Krynn72]

Still a lot more active than 2010 and 2011 that's for sure, especially if you consider social networking stuff and YouTube, which were pretty much non-entities on the old site.


Might wanna get that seen to, it can't be healthy.

I'll admit that the staff have been doing a great job of creating content for the front page and those other outlets. The "news" aspect of the site has definitely improved and gotten more active. What I'm saying is that the forums/community doesn't have a correlating response. I'd wager if you looked at forum activity from this time in 2011 it'd be nearly identical.

 

[Vegeta897]

I don't really care about what effect on the forum activity the rebranding may or may not have had. Except for maybe the increased percentage of people who think we are Valve. That's always funny.

The forum has always been active enough to serve its purpose for my enjoyment. I say my enjoyment because I can only speak for myself. But judging by how many vets are still here, I would assume they still get value out of this place. Going from joking around with long time members to playing with new members, and having (mostly civil) arguments with new and old people, there's enough to do here without being considered dead, and not too much that I can't keep up with it. I don't have a problem with the site activity at all.

So it annoys me a little when some mods who don't know the community and the forum as well as we do try to say things need changing.

 

[JossiRossi]

These forums aren't here for you though. It's not about your individual enjoyment. It's supposed to be a part of the site as a whole. People might not like that I don't know the community, but there are members of the community who refuse to properly self reflect.

The best part is, all I am saying is to treat people with respect, and look at the mess it caused. Thicker skins needed indeed.

 

[Vegeta897]

These forums aren't here for you though. It's not about your individual enjoyment.

Of course I know that, Jossi. I can only speak for myself when talking about what I like on the forum, so that's what I did. But it's obvious that the majority of people here like it the way it is, otherwise we'd have a lot more complaining.

The best part is, all I am saying is to treat people with respect, and look at the mess it caused. Thicker skins needed indeed.

Who is against treating people with respect? I would never support giving free passes to anyone who is actually trying to upset or offend someone.
I'm going to speak for myself again: I got upset from being told that how I act is inappropriate or bad for the community. It is my opinion that you do not have the clout to say something like that to me. You have the power to enforce it, but that does not make you right. And I know you didn't say it specifically to me, but we both know I'm in the 'group' of people who you think are causing this problem.

 

[trunk_slamchest]

self discipline is the key to quitting.

dont be extremely hard on yourself if youre having trouble quitting, sinko. if quitting is becoming too stressful, you will naturally want to smoke more to relieve the stress. it is a vicious cycle that can only be ended if you dont let the frustration get to you.

tabacco companies engineer cigarettes to make them harder to quit, and quitting cigarettes has been compared to quitting crack or heroine.

i smoke weed/cigarettes everyday and the only time i feel guilty about it is if i cannot control my habit or if i smoke to much and feel like shit. then i realize i need to cut down, i do, and the process repeats itself.

if i didnt like in new york, i probably wouldnt smoke cigarettes.

 

[FoB_Ed]

Here are some facts:

1. The forum is unpopular lately because that's what happens to internet forums in 2013 about a game developer that doesn't have much to discuss (until hl3 or a new game is afoot)
1b. It is not because of any 'attitudes'. You're letting a few squeeky wheels warp your perception of reality here. You can not prove that people are choosing not to register after seeing how we talk to eachother on here. That's not even how new people join forums; they usually have a specific question to ask, or topic they want to discuss, which they will sign up to post.
2. You can't tell a bunch of people who have been community members for years, who are keeping the site alive, how to act. Especially when you yourself do not have as much experience being a part of this community as we do. And please don't try to claim that you do. It's naive and insulting. I've been posting here actively without any breaks for over 9 years, and everyone else here who is a long time member disagrees with your idea of "improving" the forum.

I have to have some amount of dignity here. I've contributed massively to this forum's activity and made a lot of friends. I've organized group gaming events in here and in the steam chatroom. I treat members new and old with an attitude that you're trying to say is a problem that needs to be fixed. Sorry, but you can't make that call. You may be on the staff but you actually do not have the tie to the community that I have to tell me that I'm wrong and you're right. Every other member with more experience on this forum than you is all the support I need to say this confidently. Trying to tell all of us that we need to change our act for you is an outright insult, and like Stig says, is the opposite of helping the forum.

TLDR = I am still a pathetic nerd!!!

 

[Vegeta897]

Who... I... what...

 

[Stigmata]

These forums aren't here for you though. It's not about your individual enjoyment. It's supposed to be a part of the site as a whole. People might not like that I don't know the community, but there are members of the community who refuse to properly self reflect.

The best part is, all I am saying is to treat people with respect, and look at the mess it caused. Thicker skins needed indeed.

But the problem is you're not "just" saying that. Yes, in a purely literal sense you are, but as I and others have outlined in various ways, your words betray an almost active, purposeful misunderstanding of people who have been here much longer than you have, alongside a healthy portion of double standards concerning the community-at-large. You talk about people needing thicker skins, so what about the people who cry havoc about perceived insults that turn out to be phantoms? You talk about respect, but what about respecting the people whose activity has NEVER been a "problem" up until two days ago?

So far, it seems the only member of the community failing to self-reflect is you.

 

[JossiRossi]

If some people's actions have not been a problem in that past, it's not because those actions should not have always been discouraged, but because active moderation has been virtually nonexistent. If there were any one else, don't you think they would have spoken up by now in this very thread? I invited other staff to come here and set me straight if they disagreed. There's been nothing, and I think because while my words have been likely far too sharp ok certainly too sharp, it's that they do not disagree.

And, when I say that all that needs to be done is for people to respect one another, to not jump down someone's throat that's really the issue at hand. You're reading into my words things I don't feel.

BadHat made a joke that was sarcastic, but not the personal attack it was read as. Rorschach got upset at a perceived slight and reacted the way people often do to being repeatedly jabbed at. This situation itself wasn't bad, what happened next was many commentators jumping onto him for being too thin skinned and good riddance, etc. THAT is where the problem lay. Something was innocently misinterpreted and then through the small actions of multiple people it was turned into a big deal.

Vegeta did explain that he felt it was a joke (and not to call him out specifically) but the tone of his post is derogatory. There was no other attempt to correct him in a reasonable manner. And please don't quote single sentences to prove that wrong, the tone of nearly every post after his misunderstanding is one of "good riddance".

 

[DevonWC]

Well, the wagon already crashed, went off the hill and crumbled in flames....

 

[Krynn72]

the tone of nearly every post after his misunderstanding is one of "good riddance".

Shocking, I would have thought the tone would be happier after being told to "go **** yourselves." How immature of us to take a "good riddance" tone after that!

 

[JossiRossi]

If his reaction was based on just this one event then you might have a point, but he had felt that he had been repeatedly targeted. This was not a one off, it was a last straw.

 

[Vegeta897]

I want to go on record saying that I did not intend to be derogatory in my first post in this thread, explaining Badhat's post. I was greatly amused at how badly Rorschach took Badhat's jokey post, and I can see how my post expressing this amusement could have made things worse for him. But I didn't actually mean for it to be a "haha you idiot, see ya" post. Just pure amusement. I thought we could all have a laugh at it afterwards, but how wrong I was. It was short sighted of me I suppose, but it could have been fine.

And then you made your post saying we should be more careful, and I interpreted that as you telling badhat to be more careful, which of course sounded ridiculous to me. And then the rest was history.

 

[Mogi67]

Haha. Good thread. Moral of the story is don't get affected