On Existential Crises and Coaching Friends Through Them

Maestro

Maestro

The Freeman
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So I have a friend (no, this isn't a cop-out, I got over this issue years ago), who is experiencing an existential crisis. This is largely due to our freshman composition class (of all things). She has read Camus' essay on the three choices when confronting existential crisis: acceptance, religion (the cop-out in Camus' lexicon), or suicide. She has apparently decided acceptance is out of the question, and is waffling hard between religion or suicide.

She went on a retreat this weekend with a campus Christian group and has decided (over the course of a weekend) that she is 'going back to Jesus.' I am pretty sure that house of cards has a lifespan of a week at most, all it's waiting for is the right bump to collapse. She has already started on the path to skepticism and I doubt there's much turning back.

So, my question and dilemma is this: for those of you who struggled with this issue, any tips on how to convince her acceptance is the right decision? I have already figured the Socratic method is probably the right one (asking questions in order to guide her to a conclusion), but what specific issues have you encountered on the path to acceptance? What kinds of carrots and sticks can I use to guide her to a less precarious position?
 
Are you sure she's not just after attention? Feed her SMBC comics until she feels better.
 
Acceptance can be hard, but there is a hidden option: ignorance. Pretend like it didn't happen and go on about her life. Some people's minds can't handle real shit.
 
Talk about the universe. Talk about it lots. Talk about how incredible it is that we have images of sunsets taken on Mars, how fast the winds are on Neptune (1,300mph)...talk about the milky way, universal theories, entropy, how mind ****ingly BIG everything is, anything. A lot of it might sound nihilistic to her at first, but it's truer than any religious bullshit you'll come across.
 
Would you mind elaborating on what is causing her existential crisis?
 
Smoke said:
Talk about the universe. Talk about it lots. Talk about how incredible it is that we have images of sunsets taken on Mars, how fast the winds are on Neptune (1,300mph)...talk about the milky way, universal theories, entropy, how mind ****ingly BIG everything is, anything. A lot of it might sound nihilistic to her at first, but it's truer than any religious bullshit you'll come across.
Click to expand...

And remind her every step of the way, just how devoid of life each of those places are ;)
 
I have problems with existentialism all the time, as I'm sure a lot of people do. No longer in extreme cases, such as this, but my method of dealing with it is relative, I'm sure.

I've had a debate on here once about my religion and I'm not keen on bringing it up again, but (the dreaded butt). I'm a Buddhist, and I honestly do not know where I would be without it. The best thing about Buddhism is that though it is a 'religion', you can choose to ignore the practice and only take in the philosophical teachings. Which are universal and relevant to everyone. I recommend starting with the big guy, Siddhartha Gautama, the Buddha. Buy her a book, I recommend this, it covers most basic concepts of Buddhism, and is a biography of his life which I found quite interesting. If that's going to fast then make her watch a Youtube video of one of The Dalai Lama's teachings.

I know what you may be thinking, I hate people that push their religion onto others as much as the next guy. But I'm willing to bet ANYONE who interprets some form of Buddhist teaching will get something beneficial out of it. Even if it's just a few hours sleep.
As an extreme example, earlier this year I took part in a one day course at my Buddhist centre in Melbourne, and there was a woman in my discussion group who, 4 years ago, walked in on her husband shagging a prostitute. She had a series of mental breakdowns, panic attacks, suicide attempts, for 3 entire years. And then, one day when she was laying in her hospital bed she saw a leaflet for an afternoon teaching on 'Acceptance and Reality' at a centre called Tara Institute. Today she is a practicing Buddhist, is on the road to recovery, and finds meaning and virtue in her life.
Again, I hate to be the poster boy for anything, but give it a try and reap the rewards. I promise you it's worth the effort.

-

Or if the whole religious thing is really where you want her to be, do as Smoke says. Teach her some basic science, show her how f*cking amazing the universe we live in is. There is no denying there is beauty in our lives, whether you believe God put it there, it came to be by mistake, who cares? The fact is this is where we are and this what we've got.
Tell her this, this is a train of though I repeat to myself everytime I think life isn't worth living; Life is a circle, you can try and fight the current, refute all meaning and it will consume your life, whether through suicide or ongoing suffering to the point you die, and your life is wasted. Or, you can go along with the current, accept you have a set amount of time on this planet and make the best of it, life can suck, and life can be great. It's what YOU make of it.

Now, I hate to sound like an after school special, so the last thing I recommend you do for her, if all else fails is get her to play Peggle and listen to some damn rain.
 
As jule said, if religion does seem to have done something good for her, maybe you should just wait and see what comes of it. There's not really any point in interfering due to your own personal beliefs, unless it seems that it's not "working" anymore. Even if it's just a stopping point, at least it buys time for another option to become available -- whereas now it sounds like her only choices are religion or suicide, and one of those is clearly worse.
 
JUL3 said:
I have problems with existentialism all the time, as I'm sure a lot of people do. No longer in extreme cases, such as this, but my method of dealing with it is relative, I'm sure.

I've had a debate on here once about my religion and I'm not keen on bringing it up again, but (the dreaded butt). I'm a Buddhist, and I honestly do not know where I would be without it. The best thing about Buddhism is that though it is a 'religion', you can choose to ignore the practice and only take in the philosophical teachings. Which are universal and relevant to everyone. I recommend starting with the big guy, Siddhartha Gautama, the Buddha. Buy her a book, I recommend this, it covers most basic concepts of Buddhism, and is a biography of his life which I found quite interesting. If that's going to fast then make her watch a Youtube video of one of The Dalai Lama's teachings.

I know what you may be thinking, I hate people that push their religion onto others as much as the next guy. But I'm willing to bet ANYONE who interprets some form of Buddhist teaching will get something beneficial out of it. Even if it's just a few hours sleep.
As an extreme example, earlier this year I took part in a one day course at my Buddhist centre in Melbourne, and there was a woman in my discussion group who, 4 years ago, walked in on her husband shagging a prostitute. She had a series of mental breakdowns, panic attacks, suicide attempts, for 3 entire years. And then, one day when she was laying in her hospital bed she saw a leaflet for an afternoon teaching on 'Acceptance and Reality' at a centre called Tara Institute. Today she is a practicing Buddhist, is on the road to recovery, and finds meaning and virtue in her life.
Again, I hate to be the poster boy for anything, but give it a try and reap the rewards. I promise you it's worth the effort.

-

Or if the whole religious thing is really where you want her to be, do as Smoke says. Teach her some basic science, show her how f*cking amazing the universe we live in is. There is no denying there is beauty in our lives, whether you believe God put it there, it came to be by mistake, who cares? The fact is this is where we are and this what we've got.
Tell her this, this is a train of though I repeat to myself everytime I think life isn't worth living; Life is a circle, you can try and fight the current, refute all meaning and it will consume your life, whether through suicide or ongoing suffering to the point you die, and your life is wasted. Or, you can go along with the current, accept you have a set amount of time on this planet and make the best of it, life can suck, and life can be great. It's what YOU make of it.

Now, I hate to sound like an after school special, so the last thing I recommend you do for her, if all else fails is get her to play Peggle and listen to some damn rain.
Click to expand...

Therein lies my dilemma: I am opposed to proselytizing my beliefs to others, but what scares me is if she comes to a conclusion that leads to a path of self-destruction before anyone can see it happening. I'll try the Buddhism path, as you do have a point that the philosophy of the Buddha is generally helpful to anyone who reads it. It's not so much the religion I have an issue with, it's just that "going back to Jesus" (in so many words) over the course of a weekend sounds like more of a snap decision than it does a fundamental shift in thinking.
 
She's not going to kill herself. Give her some poetry. The Prophet by Kahlil Giban is excellent if you're going through an existential crisis. Smoke a joint and listen to Bob Dylan and watch the sun set. Go take a drive in nature. Everyone has to deal with their own existence. She might enjoy reading of Heidegger's writings on being.

As far as "going back to Jesus" goes. One's own opinion on religion is just that - an opinion, an idea, a conviction. One can not seperate their religion from action, or their beliefs from their occupations. Religion is not a seperate entity from all other aspects of one's life. Her going back to Jesus is nothing, because one's religion is comprised of everything they do - how they react to others, how they reflect upon the world, and how they treat their own selves.
 
Tell her to try out eXistenZ.

I don't get why acceptance is out of the question. Thats really the only real option, and its clearly the best one.
 
you could coach her through it by sticking your dick in her, because that's honestly the only possible way i could ever imagine giving a shit about someone in such a retarded situation as this. it's also clear and to the point!

it's possible jesus might not be down with that, but man, f*ck that guy
 
^^ Outstanding. Do it, for the good of insufferable meaning-seekers everywhere.
 
I know there is a solution to the problem. Let me talk to my best bud Cthulu, he's been through this kind of stuff before.


Tell her
'Good things come to those who wait'
'Shes the Ace in the deck'
'Your needed in the future, just enjoy life till then'
'you are the future resistance leader, people depend on you'

She may feel worse if you do this, but get her a big book of Astronomy and a book on other Universes by Michio Kaku or someone. If it does what its intended to do, it will cause her to question everything about life, future and the past, basically keeps her alive with thoughts of intrigue.
 
if she is going into some religion make her go to some cool religion like viking religion or sacrificial mayan religions
 
I'm reading through the symptoms of Seasonal Affective Disorder, and her current behavior pattern coupled with the time frame seems to point very, very strongly to this. I think this is far less about existential crisis than it is a lack of proper sun and Vitamin D.

It's like a damned check list:

-Occurs in late fall/winter
-Occurs mostly in young women
-Happens most often above 40 degrees latitude (hello, Milwaukee)
-Recurring thoughts of suicide
-Lack of energy
-She lives on the north side of the dorms

I'm reserving judgment, but this is like a description of her current condition.
 
Krynn72 said:
I don't get why acceptance is out of the question. Thats really the only real option, and its clearly the best one.
Click to expand...

Pretty much this.

Also, tell her to read more before she makes up her mind. It isn't like Camus is the only philosopher in the world, nor is Christianity the only possible way to religious salvation.

EDIT I didn't want to sound condescending by suggesting her 'existential crisis' might be little more that some sort of psychological breakdown, but you might be on to something with that seasonal affective disorder. There is an easy 'cure' for that by the way. Just tell her to use a sunbed three times a week.
 
JUL3 has a good point.

I think you will remember this video and just how amazing it is. However its anti-religious sentiments might cause an averse reaction... maybe show her only the first half.

"I stepped out of a supernova, and so did you."


Also, these things come in cycles. I go through a few minor ones ever so often. Normally its a conversation or a new opportunity that shakes me out of it. Or they just go away after a while.
 
Who appointed you this woman's psychologist? Do you think it's really up to you to "diagnose" her with anything? If she's very unhappy or suicidal, suggest that she see someone who can professionally help her. If not, just listen and be her friend. I've never really believed that books, academia, religion, drugs or any of it can make people long-term happy, especially not if somebody else is choosing them for you.

For the record, I've had Buddhism shoved on me when I've been going through tough times and believe me, it's no picnic and it didn't help.
 
lord_raken said:
JUL3 has a good point.

I think you will remember this video and just how amazing it is. However its anti-religious sentiments might cause an averse reaction... maybe show her only the first half.

"I stepped out of a supernova, and so did you."
Click to expand...

I didn't actually watch the video, but that quote reminds me of this ridiculous "astronomy" talk I accompanied a friend to. Half of it was given by a dude who was actually an astronomy professor and had interesting things to say about dark matter. The other half was given by his wife who was a journalist who'd somehow latched herself onto his work and created an entire symbology and spirituality around how being made from "stardust" makes us special. She also came up with crap about how we're at the "center" of everything (this includes the fact that our bodies are on the meter scale, which happens to be in between the atom scale (10^-10 meters) and universe scale (10^10 meters) if plotted on a log scale. Seriously. They have an entire book on this.

I like science and astronomy but I don't find either to be life-affirming. Trying to make up some kind of pseudo-science-religion just seems like an insult to science.
 
For the people saying she needs professional help which usually means psychiatry

Uh so what they can stuff her with pills that do more harm than good?

Psychiatry:

Feeling happy? - you have a disorder but here take this pill for the rest of your life, if it stops working we'll give you another one
Feeling sad? - you have a disorder but here take this pill for the rest of your life, if it stops working we'll give you another one
Feeling angry? - you have a disorder but here take this pill for the rest of your life, if it stops working we'll give you another one

and the list goes on and on

it's ridiculous and not to mention the fact that this whole "chemical imbalance" bs isn't even proven. The entire field of psychiatry is a giant guessing game and used to feed drug companies money.

She needs to see an actual professional who's actually intelligent - they're called psychologists.
 
Maestro said:
So I have a friend (no, this isn't a cop-out, I got over this issue years ago), who is experiencing an existential crisis. This is largely due to our freshman composition class (of all things). She has read Camus' essay on the three choices when confronting existential crisis: acceptance, religion (the cop-out in Camus' lexicon), or suicide. She has apparently decided acceptance is out of the question, and is waffling hard between religion or suicide.

She went on a retreat this weekend with a campus Christian group and has decided (over the course of a weekend) that she is 'going back to Jesus.' I am pretty sure that house of cards has a lifespan of a week at most, all it's waiting for is the right bump to collapse. She has already started on the path to skepticism and I doubt there's much turning back.

So, my question and dilemma is this: for those of you who struggled with this issue, any tips on how to convince her acceptance is the right decision? I have already figured the Socratic method is probably the right one (asking questions in order to guide her to a conclusion), but what specific issues have you encountered on the path to acceptance? What kinds of carrots and sticks can I use to guide her to a less precarious position?
Click to expand...


how about a hard slap to the face?

yell at her to stfu and grow a pair; tough love ftw.

sounds to me like this person is looking for attention. who the **** contemplates suicide after taking a class on some dead philosopher and decides their fate based on 3 arbitrary answers to a question that may or may not apply to her? angsty attention seeking self absorbed people that's who.


"going back to Jesus" lol suicide makes baby jesus cry
 
this thread makes me groan, glad to see im not the only one though
 
Love the internet psychiatry lads. My suggestion: treat her like a bloody friend and not a project. Just be there for her and listen to her problems and try to cheer her up in the normal way; make her laugh and do fun stuff with her.

If she has a serious problem you are probably not the person she needs. Ask her if she'd think it'd help to talk to a councillor.
 
AKIRA said:
She needs to see an actual professional who's actually intelligent - they're called psychologists.
Click to expand...

Yeah this is what I meant when I said professional help. Talking to a psychologist or a counselor is something that everybody should do at some stage in their lives, I think. You don't have to wait until you've already gone crazy to do it.
 
Get her pregnant!! At the very least she'll be too busy for this crap.
 
- Depressed person asks for help... Gets made fun of.
- Depressed person commits suicide without saying a word. People wonder why said person didn't ask for help.

Hilarious.
 
Remus said:
- Depressed person asks for help... Gets made fun of.
- Depressed person commits suicide without saying a word. People wonder why said person didn't ask for help.

Hilarious.
Click to expand...

Where do you see that happening?
 
Remus said:
- Depressed person asks for help... Gets made fun of.
- Depressed person commits suicide without saying a word. People wonder why said person didn't ask for help.

Hilarious.
Click to expand...

theres a pretty big difference between telling someone youre depressed, and telling someone that you vaguely understand an oversimplified concept in a single philosophical essay you read in freshman comp class, which will lead you to suicide.
 
On the other hand, we don't know if she had been struggling existentially before reading the essay. Maybe it was just a catalyst?
 
Oh so just general referencing of hilarity with only vague relation to this thread. Cool.
 
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