One of the best speaches ive heard for a few years...

Obama is a genuinely intelligent individual and I feel strongly that he'd do well to get our country back on track. This is a very powerful and meaningful speech, yet CNN (or former Clinton News Network) had the gall pick this particular quote out of the entire thing and blow it way out of context:

obamacnn.jpg


That is what was on the front page of CNN's website for about 7 minutes before it was removed. Seriously, out of the ENTIRE speech they pick out that little bit and spin it to make it sound like a he was referring to the current constitution. There is nothing wrong with what he said, as the original (pre-13th amendment) constitution DID include clauses that were very much in support of slavery. Good show CNN, good show...
 
If these comments were made in '03, why has Obama only now begun to address them?
 
OTCEscape: He only began to address them now, because they've only become issues recently. The clip Stabby has provided us was dug up by his political rivals in an effort to tarnish Obama's political image. Its rather a common trend, as you must have noticed that presidential candidates for the last two elections and the upcoming one have had their respective pasts analyzed to the finest details in search of political weaponry.

Why did he wait until someone brought it up? Because its the opinion of someone who ISN'T Barack Obama and who ISN'T running for president, which really shouldn't matter in considering the candidates suitability.

Mr Stabby: Something confuses me. Did you perhaps miss that Obama's speech was, in fact, referring to the clip you provided? I mean, the focus of his speech was in response to recent condemnations involving Reverend Wright. Hell, I gathered that Obama would WANT people to see this clip, in only to get a better understanding of the reasons behind his words.

Still, I'm grateful. I've been missing the news lately, and didn't have an opportunity to see Reverend Wright's sermons. Now I don't have to look for them myself!
 
He has only moved to distance himself from pastor Wright when it was exposed that pastor Wright holds those views. Even though Obama knew that Wright held these views beforehand.

I knew what Obama's speech was about, it was a damage control speech, that didn't show the insanity of the church Obama has been apart of for 20 years.
 
Where are you from, Stabby? I'm not too well off on my European Geography, so you're going to have to tell me where Bellfast is.

But from what I can tell, that was an example of a very typical Gospel tradition church. There's a whole American subculture that revolves around churches like that, and there are similar places across America. Reverend Wright's sermons were certainly inflammatory, but they were hardly unique, and certainly not the worst. Besides, why should it matter? He went there for 20 years, but has he ever been seen expressing those views? I went to Chinese Church for a great deal of my youth, one which expressed considerable homophobia and subtle racism. I like to think I'm neither.
 
I really couldn't give a farting **** what Obama's pastor thinks.

Even if damage control was part of the speech's intent, that doesn't make it any less powerful IMO. Few in politics are willing to talk about a subject as touchy as this or in this way, at least without coming off as insincere or calculating. It has only strengthened my opinion of him.

I'll admit that I may have just been swept up in Obamania while watching it live yesterday. But is that necessarily a bad thing? I'm not so sure it is.
 
Actually he seems to have moved away from having Wright deal directly with anything political for a while now.
But the evening before he announced his campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination, Mr. Obama started to distance himself from Mr. Wright, canceling an invocation he had asked the minister to give at his presidential announcement.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/15/us/politics/15wright.html

And of course this was supposed to be a damage control speech. What made a very good impression on me was that Obama seemed well aware of that and decided to instead address the issues above and beyond this particular story and not just settle for denying and distancing himself from it. I think he addresses his long-time attendance in the text of the speech far better than I ever could.
Like other black churches, Trinity's services are full of raucous laughter and sometimes bawdy humor. They are full of dancing, clapping, screaming and shouting that may seem jarring to the untrained ear.

The church contains in full the kindness and cruelty, the fierce intelligence and the shocking ignorance, the struggles and successes, the love and yes, the bitterness and bias that make up the black experience in America.

And this helps explain, perhaps, my relationship with Rev. Wright. As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me. He strengthened my faith, officiated my wedding, and baptized my children.

Not once in my conversations with him have I heard him talk about any ethnic group in derogatory terms, or treat whites with whom he interacted with anything but courtesy and respect. He contains within him the contradictions -- the good and the bad -- of the community that he has served diligently for so many years.

I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother -- a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe.

These people are a part of me. And they are a part of America, this country that I love.
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http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/18/obama.transcript/index.html

I've been trying to dig up video of Wright giving sermons other than the ones we're seeing on TV, and so far all I've seen is a very good preacher.
 
Oh snap that was ridiculously good :O (Obama's, haven't watched the other)
 
This is a great speech on a topic that most polichickens wouldn't want to touch with a barge pole. Acknowledging racial resentment and searching for root causes is bound to be a far more productive course than pretending (as some politicians do) that every average joe is a paragon of egalitarianism who decries racism utterly.

Making this speech from an essentially disadvantageous position - of having to deflect criticisms over his connections to Wright - shows just how dexterous a politician he is, and how promising a president (and diplomat) he might be.
 
Yeah, I mean the worst case scenario you could think of would be that he's lying and really is a crazy racist, but if he's lying than he's so damn good at it that he'd be a hell of a diplomat.
 
I'll be the first to point it out....you misspelled speech in your title.
 
It was a good speech, but he's still going to lose a lot of votes thanks to his racist idiot pastor.

StardogChampion said:
Is that the only ammo they have against Obama? The stuff he's saying isn't that bad...
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He accuses the United States gov. of creating AIDS and being under KKK influence to keep blacks down. He says America deserved 9/11. That isn't that bad? You're joking right?
 
OTCEscape said:
"Isnt that bad?" Are you serious?
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3-strike law which targets the poor, who are often black - true.

US brought on terrorist attacks by being an ass to other countries - true.

The only bad thing he says is "US of KKK A".
 
StardogChampion said:
3-strike law which targets the poor, who are often black - true.

US brought on terrorist attacks by being an ass to other countries - true.

The only bad thing he says is "US of KKK A".
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3 Strike Law-- How is that the US's fault? Maybe it because they are committing the crimes?

The US still didnt deserve 9/11 and terrorist attacks.

The country he lives in he says this about it "God Damn America, not God Bless America." That in its own is bad enough. ****ing move somewhere else then.
 
3 Strike Law-- How is that the US's fault? Maybe it because they are committing the crimes?
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How is it not our fault? We did create the law you know. So you are saying that for simple crimes such as smoking crack you should go to prison for life? That's justice in your opinion? What the hell is wrong with you people? The 3 strike laws affect black people the most as everyone knows because of our unfair justice system and the way cops treat blacks. If you are going to dispute that the justice system is unfair to black people, like a certain other member tried to do a few weeks back, then you have to explain to me why a 17 year old black kid served 2 years in prison for getting head from a 16 year old white girl. And when the kid won his appeal why did the white DA of his state refuse to release him?

The US still didnt deserve 9/11 and terrorist attacks.
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If we drop billions of dollars worth of bombs on a perticular region it is only a matter of time before certain people from that region get pissed off enough to attack us. Is that really that hard for you to understand? You honestly think we don't deserve to get attacked when millions of innocent people have died as a direct result of our actions?

he country he lives in he says this about it "God Damn America, not God Bless America." That in its own is bad enough. ****ing move somewhere else then
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You should try growing up. Obama is the first politician to talk to americans about race like we are actual adults. Its sad that partisan hacks such as yourself can't appreciate that kind of honesty.

I gained a lot of respect for Obama after watching that speech. At first I was supporting him just because I didn't want Hillary, but now I'm actually excited to get behind him. He certainly isn't perfect but after the speech I know he will be better than any other president we have had in recent years.
 
No Limit said:
You honestly think we don't deserve to get attacked when millions of innocent people have died as a direct result of our actions?
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Whoah whoah whoah.

WHOAH.

Did the 3,000 people who died on 9/11 deserve to be attacked and killed? Were they responsible for the civilian deaths of other countries? I'm sure you could trace some long, obscure relationship, but I can tell you that most of them probably weren't operating their day on the task of killing Arab civilians. They couldn't care less about the Middle East and were more likely focused on running their own lives, minding their business, hurting nobody. Did killing them somehow make things more "fair" or something? Was it justice? That's the the implication here.

I know what you're getting at, in that such a catastrophe was going to befall the United States inevitably on account of our global presence. But deserved it was not. Innocent civilians should not bare the brunt of somebody's revenge.
 
No Limit said:
The 3 strike laws affect black people the most as everyone knows because of our unfair justice system and the way cops treat blacks.
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What do you mean by that...and how is the justice system unfair? Do you think that when someone commits a crime, they don't have to pay the price?


You should try growing up. Obama is the first politician to talk to americans about race like we are actual adults. Its sad that partisan hacks such as yourself can't appreciate that kind of honesty.
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He was talking about the pastor, and I agree with what he said. If he hates the country so much (which it seems like he does), then he needs to get the **** out. Simple

If we drop billions of dollars worth of bombs on a perticular region it is only a matter of time before certain people from that region get pissed off enough to attack us. Is that really that hard for you to understand? You honestly think we don't deserve to get attacked when millions of innocent people have died as a direct result of our actions?
Click to expand...

I'm sure the families affected by 9/11 agree too
 
Absinthe said:
Whoah whoah whoah.

WHOAH.

Did the 3,000 people who died on 9/11 deserve to be attacked and killed? Were they responsible for the civilian deaths of other countries? I'm sure you could trace some long, obscure relationship, but I can tell you that most of them probably weren't operating their day on the task of killing Arab civilians. They couldn't care less about the Middle East and were more likely focused on running their own lives, minding their business, hurting nobody. Did killing them somehow make things more "fair" or something? Was it justice? That's the the implication here.

I know what you're getting at, in that such a catastrophe was going to befall the United States inevitably on account of our global presence. But deserved it was not. Innocent civilians should not bare the brunt of somebody's revenge.
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You say all this, yet if 9/11 never happened then America would never have attacked Iraq. They've killed at least 60,000 (some reports say 200,000+) innocent Iraqis over weapons that didn't even exist.

Did they deserve to be attacked and killed? Did that make it "fair"? Of course not.
 
StardogChampion said:
You say all this, yet if 9/11 never happened then America would never have attacked Iraq. They've killed at least 60,000 (some reports say 200,000+) innocent Iraqis over weapons that didn't even exist.

Did they deserve to be attacked and killed? Did that make it "fair"? Of course not.
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The difference is intention though. America is a drunk driver, stupid, dangerous and inconsiderate, while those who perpetrated 9/11 were Ted Bundys, meticulous mass murderers. Both bad, but only one had the intention of killing as many people as possible, just to prove a point.
 
StardogChampion said:
You say all this, yet if 9/11 never happened then America would never have attacked Iraq. They've killed at least 60,000 (some reports say 200,000+) innocent Iraqis over weapons that didn't even exist.

Did they deserve to be attacked and killed? Did that make it "fair"? Of course not.
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You say "they". They who? Certainly not the victims of 9/11. They were in fact quite dead, I assure you.

Oh, you mean those politicians and generals who make and enforce our foreign policy? Yes, our meddlings around the world have caused many unfortunate civilian deaths. How exactly does this justify a terrorist attack explicitly aimed at killing innocents?

Have I ever called Iraqi civilian deaths fair? No. I have consistently criticized both the attacks of 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq, viewing both as having caused needless deaths, so don't try to paint me as some war sympathizer or apologist. I don't consider killing defenseless men, women, and children a way of "evening out" the scales of justice.
 
Absinthe said:
Whoah whoah whoah.

WHOAH.

Did the 3,000 people who died on 9/11 deserve to be attacked and killed?
Click to expand...

I'm sure the families affected by 9/11 agree too
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Ok, deserve was a stupid word to use. You are right, the people that died that day in no way deserved what happened to them, just like the half million Iraq children that died as a result of our actions did not deserve what happened to them. What I meant to say was that as a country we should not be suprised we were attacked, and we should not have a hard time understanding why we were attacked. I wish 9/11 never happened, I wish we never dropped all those bombs, and I certainly hope we will never be attacked again (common sense tells me we will) so again, you both are absolutely correct, "deserve" was a stupid word to use on my part.

What do you mean by that...and how is the justice system unfair? Do you think that when someone commits a crime, they don't have to pay the price?
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If you read the rest of what you quoted you would have seen one very recent example I provided you of how blacks are treated unfair. It is also common knowledge that blacks are pulled over and searched by the police far more than white people.

If you commit a crime you do need to pay the price for it, I am not arguing against that. But what's the price? Life in prison for smoking crack? Life in prison for shoplifting? That's fair? But I guess for a rich white male that didn't have to grow up in a single parent home on minimum wage you have the right to judge that life in prison is fair punishment for those crimes.

If he hates the country so much (which it seems like he does), then he needs to get the **** out.
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Who the pastor or Obama?

I'm guessing you are talking about the pastor. So why do you think he is so pissed off at this country? Or do you not tend to think past "he hates america, he needs to get out"?
 
I reckoned you didn't really mean it that way, just awkward wording. I didn't expect myself to feel so passionate about it.

:cheers:
 
No Limit said:
If you commit a crime you do need to pay the price for it, I am not arguing against that. But what's the price? Life in prison for smoking crack? Life in prison for shoplifting? That's fair? But I guess for a rich white male that didn't have to grow up in a single parent home on minimum wage you have the right to judge that life in prison is fair punishment for those crimes.
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I never said that life in prison is fair for those types of lesser crimes. And I'm not rich either, I work just above minimum wage and go to a community college. And yeah I was referring to the pastor, not Obama. As for why he's so pissed off at the country, I don't know. All I know is that he's a moron, and he's really taking a big shit on Obama's campaign to put it bluntly.
 
Zeus said:
I never said that life in prison is fair for those types of lesser crimes. And I'm not rich either, I work just above minimum wage and go to a community college. And yeah I was referring to the pastor, not Obama. As for why he's so pissed off at the country, I don't know. All I know is that he's a moron, and he's really taking a big shit on Obama's campaign to put it bluntly.
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But you did go to a good elementary, middle, and high school right? I feel your pain man, working close to minimum wage sucks but if you are doing it for school it is well worth it. But let's be honest, you are here on the internet chatting on a message board, you don't have it that bad ;).

You are basing your opinion that he's a moron on a couple of 30 second clips? have you done any research in to the guy, have you read anything else from him, seen any of his other sermons?
You don't think gorwing up in a segragated country has anything to do with his anger? What about the fact that most black schools are crap compared to their white counter parts? You don't think his being so pissed off over all of this would lead him to say some of these things? But I guess "If you don't like america GTFO" is a much easier mentality for you to go by.

I totally agree this whole thing is bad for Obama's campaign. But also ask yourself why this is an issue and why this is constantly replayed on all the news networks. White right wing pastors have said much worse about this country, they were never covered by the media the way Wright has been covered. This is purely racial, simple as that.
 
Nice speech, but I didn't like this part: "In no other country on earth is this story possible". He seems to be under the impression that America is the only democracy on the planet. Why wouldn't his story be possible in Europe or Australia?
 
No Limit said:
I totally agree this whole thing is bad for Obama's campaign. But also ask yourself why this is an issue and why this is constantly replayed on all the news networks. White right wing pastors have said much worse about this country, they were never covered by the media the way Wright has been covered. This is purely racial, simple as that.
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It's getting coverage because Obama says the man is "like an uncle" to him. For a man who is running for the position of President of the United States, it's not a good thing at all for him to be so closely associated with someone who spews rhetoric such as "god damn america"

No Limit said:
But you did go to a good elementary, middle, and high school right?
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No, actually.

You are basing your opinion that he's a moron on a couple of 30 second clips? have you done any research in to the guy, have you read anything else from him, seen any of his other sermons?
You don't think gorwing up in a segragated country has anything to do with his anger? What about the fact that most black schools are crap compared to their white counter parts? You don't think his being so pissed off over all of this would lead him to say some of these things? But I guess "If you don't like america GTFO" is a much easier mentality for you to go by.
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He lost all credibility to me when he accused the United States government of creating HIV and AIDS, and being under KKK influence. His supporters can yell "context, context, context" until they're blue in the face. It doesn't change the fact that he is a hate-mongering idiot. Maybe he has legitimate reasons behind his anger, however it doesn't change the fact that he said stupid things.
 
It's getting coverage because Obama says the man is "like an uncle" to him. For a man who is running for the position of President of the United States, it's not a good thing at all for him to be so closely associated with someone who spews rhetoric such as "god damn america"
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He is like an uncle to him, so what? There are plenty of racist uncles out there. It doesn't mean they should be thrown under the bus when convenient. Obama has already said he does not agree with what Wright has said, you did watch the video right?

He lost all credibility to me when he accused the United States government of creating HIV and AIDS,
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I've heard this claim too. I am not calling you a liar, but have you actually seen the clip of him saying this? I've been looking for it and can not find it, the only source seems to be places like newsmax and Bill O'Reilly.

Same thing with the KKK claim. I looked here and no where in the video is the KKK mentioned:

http://wizbangblue.com/2008/03/14/amerika-is-under-the-influence-of-the-ku-klux-klan.php
 
The Monkey said:
Nice speech, but I didn't like this part: "In no other country on earth is this story possible". He seems to be under the impression that America is the only democracy on the planet. Why wouldn't his story be possible in Europe or Australia?
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Because he's trying to reach the ears of America, whose population thinks it is the most significant and unique country on earth.
 
The Monkey said:
Nice speech, but I didn't like this part: "In no other country on earth is this story possible". He seems to be under the impression that America is the only democracy on the planet. Why wouldn't his story be possible in Europe or Australia?
Click to expand...

It's all part of a national feeling of American uniqueness. I wouldn't pay any attention to it.
 
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