One step closer to tyranny

[A2597]

wow...thats scary.

I mean, America used tourture in one other war, and it was Brutal. Before that, and after, America has always firmly stood AGAINST tourture.


Not good. I'm all for the method the Russians found though. Total Sensary Depravation. doesn't hurt the guy at all...but apparently was very effective at making him talk.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Hell if it prevents another 9/11, then torture the terrorist SOBs till they are all dead.

 

[Private Hawke]

Hell if it prevents another 9/11, then torture the terrorist SOBs till they are all dead.

YOU WHAT??

if america hadnt stuffed all the middle eastern country up theri arsses for fun they wouldnt have fetl the need to

plus alot of the people will lie to stop being tortured
innocent people will be tortured

 

[The Mullinator]

wow...thats scary.

I mean, America used tourture in one other war, and it was Brutal. Before that, and after, America has always firmly stood AGAINST tourture.


Not good. I'm all for the method the Russians found though. Total Sensary Depravation. doesn't hurt the guy at all...but apparently was very effective at making him talk.

Im not sure exactly what the Russians did but i'm assuming it meant putting them into sensory depravation chambers. That may not physically hurt them but for some people that can easily destroy the mind causing complete insanity that can be very long lasting.

 

[seinfeldrules]

YOU WHAT??

if america hadnt stuffed all the middle eastern country up theri arsses for fun they wouldnt have fetl the need to

plus alot of the people will lie to stop being tortured
innocent people will be tortured

Care to make that into an intelligent statement so I can respond? I honestly have no idea what you are saying with all that jumbo.

 

[Private Hawke]

people dont feel the need to kill them self unless someone has given them reason to
i am not saying their actions are good

torture leads nowhere
as i said innocents will be tortured

 

[seinfeldrules]

people dont feel the need to kill them self unless someone has given them reason to
i am not saying their actions are good

torture leads nowhere
as i said innocents will be tortured

What did we do to cause 9/11? We had even leant Osama support back in the 1980s to defeat the Communist invaders of his country. People can, and do kill for no reason. Look at Palestine v Israel for a perfect example. The Palestinians have children blowing up other children riding their bus to school. There is no rhyme or reason for most terrorist acts.

 

[Private Hawke]

What did we do to cause 9/11? We had even leant Osama support back in the 1980s to defeat the Communist invaders of his country. People can, and do kill for no reason. Look at Palestine v Israel for a perfect example. The Palestinians have children blowing up other children riding their bus to school. There is no rhyme or reason for most terrorist acts.

the palestinians are prisioners living in slums in their own country
america handed over power of a country that was not owned by the isralites (sp?) to them
palestinians have been lied to for years about getting land to call their own and now a hugh wall is being built around palestine occupied land cutting familys off from each other and america continue to support this

im sorry is i insult you but im british and i hate the uk even more than america because it insults me with its actions and the arses that live here

i am sorry if i did insult you, wasnt my intension

 

[Ames]

America's master plan is to let the entire Middle East crumble as it slowly steals oil. America would then use the oil to fund secret armies designed using advanced cybernetic technology allowing super strength and many other enhancements.

Possibly.

Secretly America will take over the world leading to the opression of mankind and the eventual downfall of our species. We will be plunged into the dark ages once more.

Possibly.

See anything could happen in the future. However, there is the overlooming so-called "New World Order" which is a major possibilty.


Wow...that was weird. :bounce:

 

[Korgoth]

Wow! I'm suprised that this thread has stayed on track this long. Anyway, Seinfeldrules you asked what we did to cause 9/11? We (as in civillians) did nothing, and that was exactly the point. For years we've allowed, and sometimes even funded maniacle dictators to take power in middle eastern countries, forced economic sanctions, etc all so we could pay less at the pump. 9/11 was a horrible crime against humanity, innocent people lost their lives, but in these countries innocent people lose their lives on a daily basis due to our greed. The terrorist groups that acted out 9/11 also see America's support for Israel as a challenge to them directly. You would mention palestinian suicide bombers but you failed to mention israeli soldiers shooting children, bulldozing their homes, causing starvation, and creating thousands of refugees flea from their homes. I'm not taking sides on that debate, both peoples are in the wrong, and it just goes to show that violence only leads to more violence. But under the veil of "security" and harnessing public fear of terrorism this administration has gone overboard grossly misusing their powers, re-writing documents that this country was based on, and major over-hauling of a system that worked well until they came into power. My point still stands, how far is to far? When is enough, enough?

 

[Vigilante]

Just remember -- this is an act of the US government, not the people

 

[Lethal8472]

IMO, a big reason people hate other people is becaused they're RAISED to. Parents tell their kids that something is bad, or this person is bad and they believe them since they're impressionable kids. When they get older, they still believe these things they're told and tell their kids as well. Israeli parents tell their kids that Pakistanian people are bad and it makes Allah happy if you kill them, and vice-versa. I'm sure everyone here can remember at some point in you lives when your parents told you something is bad and you still believe it today.

 

[clarky003]

heres your New world order ,Seas Power I so want to see these oil companies get buried in the ground, along with all their pointless war mongering.

the lead publisher for a magazine 'Infinite Energy' was killed on friday may 14th. its in the latest news section,, very odd.

 

[Ames]

Israeli parents tell their kids that Pakistanian people are bad and it makes Allah happy if you kill them, and vice-versa.

Israel is a Jewish state. No Allah there.... And it's Palestine we're talking about.

 

[Lethal8472]

Israel is a Jewish state. No Allah there.... And it's Palestine we're talking about.

I wasnt sure what religion they were...I was just trying to prove a point.

 

[Tr0n]

Heh no one could control the world, even the romans couldnt

They didn't control the whole world...only just half of it and they controlled that half of the world for over 1000 years. :E

 

[nicrd]

Hell if it prevents another 9/11, then torture the terrorist SOBs till they are all dead.

do you really think that what america is doing will help prevent terrorisme????

If I kill your familly, for a good or a bad reason, wont you try to kill me ?

America is fuelling terrorist, they are giving them reasons (good or bad) to attack america again. Think about the situation in Israel and Palestine, when one gets attacked, he retaliates, then the other attacks again and it goes on never ending. Im not saying america is bad, i just think its obvious that their actions are not stopping the terrorists. America should think a bit more about foreign politics to help rebuild their image in the world. Bush is giving a very bad image for them.

 

[nicrd]

They didn't control the whole world...only just half of it and they controlled that half of the world for over 1000 years. :E

Maybe the roman civilisation lasted 1000 years, but they didnt control half the world for 1000 years. At first they had nothing and they slowly lost everything at the end.

 

[clarky003]

do you really think that what america is doing will help prevent terrorisme????

If I kill your familly, for a good or a bad reason, wont you try to kill me ?

America is fuelling terrorist, they are giving them reasons (good or bad) to attack america again. Think about the situation in Israel and Palestine, when one gets attacked, he retaliates, then the other attacks again and it goes on never ending. Im not saying america is bad, i just think its obvious that their actions are not stopping the terrorists. America should think a bit more about foreign politics to help rebuild their image in the world. Bush is giving a very bad image for them.

can I correct you on one thing.. its not 'America' .. its the people in charge, and I dont think they reflect the majority of Americans views.. proving again its not a democracey anymore. :cheers:, now weither that actually is bush , or people above him.. .. hmm thats a funny thought. :x

 

[hasan]

Well, being raised on something certianly plays a role, but oyu can't just ignore every thing and shrink the topic to how they were "raised". sooner or later these kids grow up and their ideas will not still be based on how they were raised .. but more or less on the realities they live in.

Also, if America is such a 'bad place', why do more people immigrate to this country than any other nation on the globe?

ok ok .. if you think people hate america because they hate rock and roll .. then please continue your sleep.

I wasnt sure what religion they were

They are jews, and they pretty much believe in the same God of the christians and muslims. btw, Arab Christians also say "Allah" .. just in-case you don't know. I'm not sure about jews, I think they say "Eloha", not sure. The hebrew language pretty much resembles the arabic language.
I mean, when Jesus came there wasn't an english language .. you know.

Some people seem to think that pressing on the "terrorist" will stop them! well, it won't. It'll just give them more reasons to attack; and even worse, it'll give them more pupolarity.

and btw .. someone said iraq was stolen from the jews!! dude, the Jews are the sons of Israel, who is the son of Ibraham .. and there were people living in iraq long before Ibraham was born; and he was born in Iraq.

 

[The Mullinator]

and btw .. someone said iraq was stolen from the jews!! dude, the Jews are the sons of Israel, who is the son of Ibraham .. and there were people living in iraq long before Ibraham was born; and he was born in Iraq.

I had made a mistake about that, Assyria took the area of what is now Iraq away from the Babylonians along with a few other mesopotamian civilizations. Not the Jews, however I was mistaken since the Assyrians did attack Israel and sent alot of Jews into slavery in Assyria. Either way my point stands.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Wow! I'm suprised that this thread has stayed on track this long. Anyway, Seinfeldrules you asked what we did to cause 9/11? We (as in civillians) did nothing, and that was exactly the point. For years we've allowed, and sometimes even funded maniacle dictators to take power in middle eastern countries, forced economic sanctions, etc all so we could pay less at the pump. 9/11 was a horrible crime against humanity, innocent people lost their lives, but in these countries innocent people lose their lives on a daily basis due to our greed. The terrorist groups that acted out 9/11 also see America's support for Israel as a challenge to them directly. You would mention palestinian suicide bombers but you failed to mention israeli soldiers shooting children, bulldozing their homes, causing starvation, and creating thousands of refugees flea from their homes. I'm not taking sides on that debate, both peoples are in the wrong, and it just goes to show that violence only leads to more violence. But under the veil of "security" and harnessing public fear of terrorism this administration has gone overboard grossly misusing their powers, re-writing documents that this country was based on, and major over-hauling of a system that worked well until they came into power. My point still stands, how far is to far? When is enough, enough?

It is enough once ALL terrorists are gone. I believe they attacked America because of their own misplaced jealously and anger. America has stood for the things they are against. We promote; equality between men and women, religions (Jews basically), consumerism, and a so called 'lack' of morals.
We did not put these people into place to 'cheapen' our gasoline prices. They are dictated by companies like Exxon and assosications like OPEC. If we had seriously wanted the cheapest prices at any cost, why place Iraqi and Libyan oil under sanction? The oil argument is tried and weak. The current administration is not playing off the fear of terrorism at all, 3000+ dead bodies from 9/11 does that job for them. I am sick of people accusing Bush of all these unfounded conspiracy theories. "Bush knew about 9/11, Bush killed Nick Berg, Bush really knew Iraq didnt have WMD, Bush rigged the election, Bush faked the moonlandings, Bush this, Bush that". Its all a bunch of garbage and lies.

ok ok .. if you think people hate america because they hate rock and roll .. then please continue your sleep.

I think 99% of people hate America because it is the 'cool' thing to do, I dont know what their reason is. These same people and countries come to us FIRST, however, whenever they need assistance. Ironic isnt it?

 

[clarky003]

Its all a bunch of garbage and lies

,

prove it and we'll shut up. plain and simple

you sound like you feel your being targeted responsible as a member of the US public .. its not your fault dude,, its the guys incharge, . theres no need to get patriotic on us. we just want some answers.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Nah you prove the conspiracy theories. The ball isnt in my court on that one. You make all the assumptions based on no fact, then ask me for proof? Come on now.

And I heard from my friend! Or I read on moveon.org! Or I read on congress.org! Doesnt quite cut it.

 

[nicrd]

can I correct you on one thing.. its not 'America' .. its the people in charge, and I dont think they reflect the majority of Americans views.. proving again its not a democracey anymore. :cheers:, now weither that actually is bush , or people above him.. .. hmm thats a funny thought. :x

I'm sorry about this mistake. I actually meant the american goverment, not the people but I should have said that.

It is enough once ALL terrorists are gone

omg, pls think about what your saying.

And about Bush, its not a conspiracy theorie that he IS a danger to world peace. (either because hes controlled by other not) Apart from making war and degrading the image of the american government, what has he done???

 

[seinfeldrules]

And about Bush, its not a conspiracy theorie that he IS a danger to world peace. (either because hes controlled by other not) Apart from making war and degrading the image of the american government, what has he done???

He has sucessfully invaded and toppled two dicatorships bent on destroying our country and pulled our economy out of a recession.Seems decent to me... Saddam had killed 2 million of his own people and you call Bush a threat to world peace? Wow, only against an American I guess.

omg, pls think about what your saying.

Ok, think about your mother being in the WTC at the time of the attacks. Then think about what YOU are saying.

 

[clarky003]

Nah you prove the conspiracy theories. The ball isnt in my court on that one. You make all the assumptions based on no fact, then ask me for proof? Come on now.

And I heard from my friend! Or I read on moveon.org! Or I read on congress.org! Doesnt quite cut it.

so you agree you dont have a clue either.. great now where getting somewhere.

so where is the Ball? .. its not in my court either

lol there not even conspiracey theories.. theres so much evidence to prove that there in Iraq for Oil.
that immediately raises other unanswered questions. and unanswered questions of such an important maginitude is slightly worrying.

but so far all your opinions seem complete biased, and unrational. with more of an instinctual agression based attitude, atleast thats what im getting from your messages. its the 'I wont believe it' attitude, because Im convinced that my country's government arnt lieing to us. Although the majority of the worlds populations seem to think that they are? lol

so why should I lisen to what youve been saying.. were only speculating on facts that already exist, and the facts suggest that the US government have been planning to go into Iraq for the oil for many years. and you cant argue with that. unless you work for the US government of course .

its far more complex than it seems, it doesnt seem like you have too much of an understanding in the way the world works.. and what drives it. its all bad guys and hero's to you isnt it.. but I cant blame you,, I mean how old are you? 15? 16?

 

[seinfeldrules]

OK show me evidence the US went into Iraq for oil. And if so, why are the gas prices still going up? Why did we hand in a resolution to the UN in which the UN would oversee the selling of Iraqi oil? Wow, sounds like we really were in it for the oil, I mean come on, everyone knows it! See you acted just as I said you would. Everyone knows it! What great proof. There is nothing for me to believe, that is why I dont believe it. Its not my problem if most of the world, including yourself apparently, is naieve and believes everything the 'majority' says. The liberal media and population inside and outside the US is desperate to see Bush lose in 2004. That is why all this garbage is floating around, its not based on fact.

 

[seinfeldrules]

If you really need evidence, refer to paragraph 20 of UN resolution 1483, which was mostly used in the recent US resolution draft to the UN. Thank you for trying, next time dont assume without knowing the facts.

 

[clarky003]

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0211/p02s02-woiq.html

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,882512,00.html

http://www.iht.com/articles/103224.html

http://www.commondreams.org/views01/1208-04.htm

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/970062/posts

a variety of different news sources, that confirms there second motive (primary?)

pls wake up a little in the future and do your own research... ever heard of copernic? or a news site?

 

[seinfeldrules]

If you really need evidence, refer to paragraph 20 of UN resolution 1483, which was mostly used in the recent US resolution draft to the UN. Thank you for trying, next time dont assume without knowing the facts.

Ever hear of the UN.

 

[seinfeldrules]

And by the way, in the top three articles it mentions nothing about the war being over oil. It only mentions that the US seeked to prevent the Iraqis from burining the oil fields. Obviously Bush planned to do this for his own good! But wait, wouldnt it be best for the Iraqi people if they had such a potent resource for their future exports? In another one it mentioned Iraq will use 3.5 billion dollars, to fund their own expenses. Your articles prove nothing and are laughable at best.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Taken from your OWN articles. Great research, for my side that is.

The US economy will announce zero growth this week, prolonging three years of sluggish performance. Cheap oil would boost an economy importing half of its daily consumption of 20m barrels.

But a cheaper oil price could have been reached more easily by lifting sanctions and giving the US oil majors access to Iraq's untapped reserves.

And Iraq's oil reserves, the world's second-largest, would become crucial to the operation of a new Iraqi government.

 

[clarky003]

lol your laughable , your so single minded .. oil wont last forever. this is temporary. some of us are actually thinking of the future , you havnt read those articles properly atall,, (skim read? took you all of 2 minutes.lol ) anyway, I can clearly see your so shut minded and blinded by your own belief's and not what is true, so suggesting anything to you as ignorant as you are right now, is not worth my while..

.

 

[CptStern]

It is enough once ALL terrorists are gone.

you're kidding right? Iraq is a giant terrorist recruiting camp, you make new enemies on a daily basis

I believe they attacked America because of their own misplaced jealously and anger.

We did not put these people into place to 'cheapen' our gasoline prices. They are dictated by companies like Exxon and assosications like OPEC.

I found this letter from bush to saddam, it proves it all!

If we had seriously wanted the cheapest prices at any cost, why place Iraqi and Libyan oil under sanction?

no war with libya

I am sick of people accusing Bush of all these unfounded conspiracy theories. ...Its all a bunch of garbage and lies.

this is what they'd like you to believe
because....

Its all a bunch of garbage and lies.

do you mean bush? :

"Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons."

George W. Bush September 12, 2002

"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent."

George W. Bush January 28, 2003

"We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have."

George Bush February 8, 2003

"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."

George Bush March 18, 2003

 

[clarky003]

dont argue with this guy CptStern hes not forthcoming when it comes to keeping ignorance at bay. lets just rest in that fact that we know nothing is as straight forward as it sounds, and whats going on right now .. as we know is compounding the problem not solving it.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Was he in Iraq to discover those claims? No, he went in under the advice of the CIA. Are you also calling Kerry, Clinton, and Bush Sr. liars for making these same claims? You did nothing but post links which had nothing to do with the topic, other than to prove my point (you have no evidence).

And clark003, why not respond to my posts proving my point. There is no reason arguing with people like you who run from a lost battle without admitting defeat. Just admit it, and move on to your next attack. Your own articles proved my point, along with a real life UN resolution. Your response... dont listen to seinfeld, he knows nothing! Wow what a shocker just like most people your type.

 

[clarky003]

Was he in Iraq to discover those claims? No, he went in under the advice of the CIA. Are you also calling Kerry, Clinton, and Bush Sr. liars for making these same claims?

And clark003, why not respond to my posts proving my point. There is no reason arguing with people like you who run from a lost battle without admitting defeat. Just admit it, and move on to your next attack.

wtf? I thought you lost , lol, and I talk about this with friends far too much anyway :E

point what point? you had a point??

plus this is the only answer I get out of you,

(you have no evidence).

when its clearly stairing you in the face, you wipe it aside with that ignorant one track mind youve got going on there,. so I feel Its at a conclusion. its all been said before anyway

 

[seinfeldrules]

John Kerry-

I said at the time I would have preferred if we had given diplomacy a greater opportunity, but I think it was the right decision to disarm Saddam Hussein, and when the President made the decision, I supported him, and I support the fact that we did disarm him

Clinton-

Former US president Bill Clinton said in October during a visit to Portugal that he was convinced Iraq had weapons of mass destruction up until the fall of Saddam Hussein, Portuguese Prime Minister Jose Manuel Durao Barroso said.

Its not like Bush imagined the whole thing. Again, your conspricacy theory has been disproven.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Clarky are you blind, deaf, or both?

If you really need evidence, refer to paragraph 20 of UN resolution 1483, which was mostly used in the recent US resolution draft to the UN. Thank you for trying, next time dont assume without knowing the facts.

*Posted for the 3rd time now.

The US economy will announce zero growth this week, prolonging three years of sluggish performance. Cheap oil would boost an economy importing half of its daily consumption of 20m barrels.

But a cheaper oil price could have been reached more easily by lifting sanctions and giving the US oil majors access to Iraq's untapped reserves.

And Iraq's oil reserves, the world's second-largest, would become crucial to the operation of a new Iraqi government.

*Posted from clips from your articles, again posted 2nd time. Are you going to ignore them for a 4th time? Everyone of your posts will be followed by this evidence until you face the truth.