Other titles with real time lighting?

Originally posted by Lil' Timmy
dude, pants toatlly pwnz shorts.. it's a fact, not my opinion! so you can disagree with it, if you have no problem being completely wrong (which, apparently, you don't)!!!!!!!
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I agree to disagree
 
hey lets keep with the realtime lightning topic please... :)


Originally posted by bate18
what is dynamic lighting?
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dynamic = changing over time: used to describe any system that changes over time.

the opposite is static.. that dont change.. .. and you already know what ligthning is.. ;)

RT= real time
the point of having -REALTIME- Dynamic lightning even in scenes where there is static objects ,walls,or surfaces is that you can create very cool effects with light. like a swinging Lamps in the ceiling.. (doom3 alpha level1) the shadows of rotating fans , an so on.. those things can be faked .. but remember faking things doesnt work well at all times..

in the future all engines will move to unified realtime lightning/shadowing renderers. Farcry/stalker/halo2/unreal3 engine already have something similar if not more advanced(in the case of U3) than doom3.

in games with RT Lightning you can can interact with many sources of lights and get accurate shadows/soft shadows . a rocket fired ,can act as a source of light an illuminate everything in a map with static objects..
with RT lightning the lights affects -ALL SURFACES/characters- at the same time.. people will love Doom3 multiplayer ,because fhashlights play an important role there.. imagine a dark room.. the first to tun on his flash lights is dead :cheese:
 
Originally posted by vann7
hey lets keep with the realtime lightning topic please... :)





dynamic = changing over time: used to describe any system that changes over time.

the opposite is static.. that dont change.. .. and you already know what ligthning is.. ;)

RT= real time
the point of having -REALTIME- Dynamic lightning even in scenes where there is static objects ,walls,or surfaces is that you can create very cool effects with light. like a swinging Lamps in the ceiling.. (doom3 alpha level1) the shadows of rotating fans , an so on.. those things can be faked .. but remember faking things doesnt work well at all times..

in games with RT Lightning you can can interact with many sources of lights and get accurate shadows/soft shadows . a rocket fired ,can act as a source of light an illuminate everything in a map with static objects..
with RT lightning the lights affects -ALL SURFACES/characters- at the same time.. people will love Doom3 multiplayer ,because fhashlights play an important role there.. imagine a dark room.. the first to tun on his flash lights is dead :cheese:
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I hate to nitpick, but, lightning is static discharge from the sky. Lighting is the word you're looking for (and if your primary language isn't English, then nevermind :))

Edit: But it would be cool to see a multiplayer D3 match in the dark.. although, the same could be said for any other game (such as HL2)
 
Originally posted by Shuzer
I hate to nitpick, but, lightning is static discharge from the sky. Lighting is the word you're looking for (and if your primary language isn't English, then nevermind :))
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lol...indeed :cheese:

my apology ..thanks for the help...
but its a mix between language and really bad typing skills ..
static or dynamic discharge? ..hehe :cheese:
 
Originally posted by vann7
lol...indeed :cheese:

my apology ..thanks for the help...
but its a mix beetween language and really bad typing skills ..hehe
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lol, I dunno why I pointed it out, I'd say overall it was pointless of me to do so.. anyhow! Back on topic..

LIGHTS! I'm glad lights exist.. ..er, heh.
 
LOl guys, you crack me up, The arguements start at page 2 and continue to 6, I have gone through all the pages...
Oh yea and cant be bothered to check if this has already been stated but hl2 uses a mixture of both, lightmaps and dynamics lighting - as in if an object can move, its shadow will react realisticlly, I dont see the point in wasting calculations on non moving objects such as building when a lightmap will do.
Doom3 is a different story, its going ofr a bad ass ultra cool future look - in other words lots of different coloured and moving lights so they cant really use lightmaps....
If that doesnt help just ignore me! :p
coool when did they make the tongue smily animated?!
 
@Mountain Man
The most of your arguments are just flameing so i`ll ignore them.
And youre wrong with the point that HL2 uses real time shadows. Also the characters use precalculated shadows.
You can see this in the video. But lets see what the final product will show up.
I have not downloaded the source and seen only some shots from the leaked beta. But im sure, if i would look
into the source, i would find many points for critics.

@No Limit
Thanks for flaming me about DX9.
But who has no clue here ?
Open your eyes, its possible to make games without DX9 or another M$ technologie.
You disqualified yourself with this sentence "Every game out there uses DX and almost every new game coming out will only use DX9."
The most developer use it because the main platform for games is M$ Windows.
I belive you think DX9 is necessary to make a game - it is in fact not.
Call of Duty for example runs with OpenGL, Doom3, Tenebrae, Crystallspace3D, Ogre... uses OpenGL and i belive also the Unrealengine has a OpenGL renderer.

Also every game converted to linux CAN`T use DX9.
Maybe you think its impossible to create a game with "real" physics. But as usal, theres also a free alternative for this.
ODE - open dynamics engine, just for example.
 
Originally posted by burzum
...and i belive also the Unrealengine has a OpenGL renderer.
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Yes sir, it does!

Off topic here, do you play CS? I coulda sworn I played with a Burzum in CS, and someone called you Burzam, and you scolded him for it.. maybe it was in these forums, but I coulda sworn it was in a game
 
Originally posted by burzum
[BAlso the characters use precalculated shadows.
You can see this in the video. [/B]
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the world is pre-calculated, the characters use realtime shadows. I dunno what video you've been watching but it clearly can't have been Half-Life2.. It's simply impossible to pre-calculate every possible shadow shape and position for realtime characters. Because thats what you'd have to do, calculate before hand every possible outcome within every map to make sure there was a shadow to match whatever a character happened to do at that point and position...

Besides its obvious their realtime, DX9 apparantly smoothes them so they have a nice soft edge, otherwise their hard edged shadows, like a stencil cut from the model.. basically a realtime shadow map created from the light source casting the shadows.
 
hl2 has realtime shadows for physics objects ive noticed, which is neat. although a bit buggy in the beta.
 
Originally posted by poseyjmac
hl2 has realtime shadows for physics objects ive noticed, which is neat. although a bit buggy in the beta.
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Buggy in what way? I hadn't noticed, although I'm sure you're right

Edit: w00t, Hydra :)
 
well like when i put a prop_physics clock up on a wall, the shadow was very long along the wall. kinda weird, but im sure itll be sorted out.
 
Originally posted by poseyjmac
hl2 has realtime shadows for physics objects ive noticed, which is neat. although a bit buggy in the beta.
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I dunno about the stolen files.. But yep, it would make sense that anything in the map that isn't actually a brush, would have realtime shadows, so that would include yeah physics objects, props, characters, equipment, weapons and so on. Then the rest is handled by static lights and shadows.

Personally I'd rather have the HL2 method, and use as many lights as I want. Than have them all dynamic and be forced to use below a certain number per area to avoid massive slowdowns.


Besides, HL2's method is always going to look better than DIII's.. Cause DIII hasn't got any radiosity calculations going on, just old fashioned ray tracing. And you can't, (with so few lights before it crawls), Give the impression of realism when compared to radiosity calculations bouncing light around a map to get a better approximation of how real light behaves.. Just can't be done, need way more lights in a scene if someone wants to fake that type of realistic lighting in DIII, and no way is DIII going to have full realtime radiosity, unless 1fps is ok by the Doom players.

DIII just wont be able to pull that off, HL2 does that as it compiles the map, so its there and done and doesn't slow down the actual game because of it, cause its not calculating it in realtime, it doesn't need to.
 
I encourage all to go here: http://www.farcryhq.com/downloads.php?ordner_id=2 and download the video "Far Cry - PC Action Video (HIGH)." A very good display of real time lighting at the beginning of the video if I must say so myself. It's the ol' shoot the swinging lamp type thing, but it still looks incredible, even if we have seen it done before.
 
Originally posted by spitcodfry
I encourage all to go here: http://www.farcryhq.com/downloads.php?ordner_id=2 and download the video "Far Cry - PC Action Video (HIGH)." A very good display of real time lighting at the beginning of the video if I must say so myself. It's the ol' shoot the swinging lamp type thing, but it still looks incredible, even if we have seen it done before.
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Spit what the hell? first... your off topic, secondly who invited you to this thread??!

(IM so kidding bro) ;)

seriously though, awesome vid, especially the smooth transition from indoor to outdoor, and the absolutely ENORMOUS landscape that awaits outside.

when he dove into the water I was like... shizat... awesome stuff

the lighting is superb too ;)

god I want to snipe in maps like that... its like a whole jungle (instead of current tech's jungle sections) even BF1942 cant hold a candle to it.
 
Originally posted by Fenric1138
<text dump>
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Yeah, I agree. DoomIII is definately the next step in lighting technology, but it won't look quite as realistic at the stage it is in. I think Carmack said once that lighting can dynamic but unrealistic, or static but realistic. You can see that D3 is going for the former, and HL2 for the latter.
 
Originally posted by spitcodfry
I encourage all to go here: http://www.farcryhq.com/downloads.php?ordner_id=2 and download the video "Far Cry - PC Action Video (HIGH)." A very good display of real time lighting at the beginning of the video if I must say so myself. It's the ol' shoot the swinging lamp type thing, but it still looks incredible, even if we have seen it done before.
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ok DLing it.. but only cause I'm watching firefly and got nothing else to do right now ;)

there's a couple of open source engines out and about, with various quality physics aswell as spec, normal maps etc. and dynamic lights/shadows.. Their interesting to wander about in for a few minutes
 
Originally posted by poseyjmac
well like when i put a prop_physics clock up on a wall, the shadow was very long along the wall. kinda weird, but im sure itll be sorted out.
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you've never seen a long shadow? shadows length changes depending on where the light source is, and depending on the angle of the light source.......like... if i stand outside at noon, and the sun is up in the middle of the sky, i'll have a small shadow thats almost right under me, but if i wait until the aftenoon then my shadow will stretch along the ground.....

unless i totally misunderstood what you were saying...
 
Originally posted by Mr. Redundant
Spit what the hell? first... your off topic, secondly who invited you to this thread??!

(IM so kidding bro) ;)

seriously though, awesome vid, especially the smooth transition from indoor to outdoor, and the absolutely ENORMOUS landscape that awaits outside.

when he dove into the water I was like... shizat... awesome stuff

the lighting is superb too ;)

god I want to snipe in maps like that... its like a whole jungle (instead of current tech's jungle sections) even BF1942 cant hold a candle to it.
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Yeah I must say I haven't seen draw distance thats impressive as this game's. I mean, to actually see an area that you know you won't get to for some time (that metallic-looking base higher up on the island, when the player uses the binoculars once he gets out of the holding cell area) is mind-boggling. I mean, considering just how damn far away it really is. I dunno if you've seen all the videos on that site, but one shows an airlift plane coming down fast, right by the player, all aflame. When it crashes on the ground and explodes, sending flame and debris everywhere, it looks like a friggin action movie.
 
Originally posted by ElFuhrer
Yeah, I agree. DoomIII is definately the next step in lighting technology, but it won't look quite as realistic at the stage it is in. I think Carmack said once that lighting can dynamic but unrealistic, or static but realistic. You can see that D3 is going for the former, and HL2 for the latter.
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sounds familiar, i probably read the same thing as you. I guess I just prefer the static and realistic method cause of the pre-rendered stuff I've always done, prefer the subtle but realistic effects possible. And cause DIII couldn't hope to handle the mod I'm working on.. I'm living in fear that HL2 might not be able to handle it right now too hehehe damn me and my bright idea's :D
 
Originally posted by Xtasy0
you've never seen a long shadow? shadows length changes depending on where the light source is, and depending on the angle of the light source.......like... if i stand outside at noon, and the sun is up in the middle of the sky, i'll have a small shadow thats almost right under me, but if i wait until the aftenoon then my shadow will stretch along the ground.....

unless i totally misunderstood what you were saying...
Click to expand...

yeah you misunderstood what i was saying, it doesn't look natural thats why i was saying its buggy. thats just one of the glitches it does.
 
Originally posted by spitcodfry
Yeah I must say I haven't seen draw distance thats impressive as this game's. I mean, to actually see an area that you know you won't get to for some time (that metallic-looking base higher up on the island, when the player uses the binoculars once he gets out of the holding cell area) is mind-boggling. I mean, considering just how damn far away it really is. I dunno if you've seen all the videos on that site, but one shows an airlift plane coming down fast, right by the player, all aflame. When it crashes on the ground and explodes, sending flame and debris everywhere, it looks like a friggin action movie.
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havent seen that one I dont think, but I will agree it looks 100% like an action movie

is it just me, or does Far Cry have that "this is what a realistic Duke nukem would be" look to it?
seriously though :)
the draw distance is truely epic, if you havent seen it... it seriously conquers anything I have seen. (we dont really know how big the levels can get in HL2) but its not only huge, its so lush and densely populated with foliage.

still the underwater part when he drops down into it is amazing... fish, coral and rock formations not withstanding... looks breath-taking
 
actually fenric, if you make a brush a func_physbox, it gets its own dynamic shadow as well. so theoritically you could construct a building of all func_physbox brushes and everything would cast shadows. this in turn would make every single wall ceiling floor able to collapse as well, but of course there would be no occlusion and your comp would have to draw everything in the level. doh well
 
Originally posted by Mr. Redundant
havent seen that one I dont think, but I will agree it looks 100% like an action movie

is it just me, or does Far Cry have that "this is what a realistic Duke nukem would be" look to it?
seriously though :)
the draw distance is truely epic, if you havent seen it... it seriously conquers anything I have seen. (we dont really know how big the levels can get in HL2) but its not only huge, its so lush and densely populated with foliage.

still the underwater part when he drops down into it is amazing... fish coral looks breath-taking
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I also like how your character's hands stroke through the water. Don't know of an fps that's done that before. Nothing ground-breaking, mind you, but it's still a nice little detail.

On a Duke Nukem note, from briefly scanning 3D Realms message boards a while back, of which George Broussard actually takes a frequent participatory role in, he talks about DNF like it's gonna be the best thing since sliced bread (well obviously, it's his game he's pimping). Nevertheless, when confronted with talk of HL2 and Doom III he scoffs at those titles as if they won't hold a candle to his. If that game ever gets released, apparently it will sport some amazing tech we've never seen before. Here's to hoping that ol' George isn't BSing us (which I doubt he is). What gets me the most, is he has reiterated time and again for nobody to go out and upgrade now for the game, because when they do unveil their latest build, the tech then will supposedly conquer anything on the market currently in terms of hardware requirement. It really is a wonder though what he's cranking over there that's going to be a challenge even for a 9800 Pro to run.
 
Yeah the Cry Engine does look pretty damned impressive. The game itself doesn't look all that great (in my opinion), but that's one hell of an engine.
 
Originally posted by Wildhound
Yeah the Cry Engine does look pretty damned impressive. The game itself doesn't look all that great (in my opinion), but that's one hell of an engine.
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I know what you mean. The engine itself has amazing capabilities and seems to be superbly designed, but the graphics really aren't anything to write home about with the exception of water effects and draw distance. Water effects being ones that have obviously been implemented many a time already by other developers.

EDIT: I guess what I was trying to say about the water, is that it looks breathtaking considering the surrounding environment and its reflection onto it.
 
Well.. watched this far cry thing

ok so yeah, that single swinging lamp thing is kinda cool

but where are the character shadows outside (when the rest of the map is clearly casting shadows) where is the large shadow from the aircraft. Lack of large splash when you fall from a great height into the water. I only saw a small ripple, even a sprite based splash would have been nice.

The large appearance of the maps does look good, I agree with that, especially the bit where he snipes a guy quite far off, but by the looks of it it does have a transition/load thing now and again.. Which makes me think that might be more trickery than their letting on.. Just like Valve have suggested HL2 maps are massive, when in reality its very likely its the 3D sky thing that helps give that impression. So could well be the same sort of idea with Far Cry.. Saying that, HL2 maps are big, and probably that size, adding the 3D sky thing likely extends that even more then. So I reckon HL2 wouldn't have a problem doing something very similar.

While the fancy dynamic light being knocked about a bit was cool, and the shadow of the guy working on something near the start looked ok. I can't see it being a big deal after you've seen it in game a couple of times. Just like nobody makes a big deal about games running in 16mil colors these days, or that 3D objects in games even have textures atall.. Or light even, don't forget old classics like Driller :)

It looks like a cool effect, I wont argue about that, but it wont be the kind of effect that a game should base its whole selling point on like DIII seems to be doing.

I just get the feeling the shaking light fitting is gonna get overdone to the point of being compared to lens flares on the annoying scale. Everyone will want to do one, it'll get old, real fast... That'll go for the already cliche spinning fan with matching shadow and light beam effect
 
yeah I have read some of George broussard's comments on the 3dr forums too... however as you stated its hard to discern bullshit from fact around there.
its easy to say something and have nothing to back your claim.
if it truely as good as he believes (and makes it sound) it has to be something revolutionary... what that means I have no idea.

however I do wish them luck and hope to see something from their side soon.
man Im gonna be broke

Hl2, Doom3, Far-Cry, Stalker, Vampire:bloodlines, Deus Ex2, Thief3 etc etc etc
well we do deserve it, the gaming medium has been rather "dry" the last couple years
 
Originally posted by Fenric1138
Well.. watched this far cry thing

ok so yeah, that single swinging lamp thing is kinda cool

but where are the character shadows outside (when the rest of the map is clearly casting shadows) where is the large shadow from the aircraft. Lack of large splash when you fall from a great height into the water. I only saw a small ripple, even a sprite based splash would have been nice.

The large appearance of the maps does look good, I agree with that, especially the bit where he snipes a guy quite far off, but by the looks of it it does have a transition/load thing now and again.. Which makes me think that might be more trickery than their letting on.. Just like Valve have suggested HL2 maps are massive, when in reality its very likely its the 3D sky thing that helps give that impression. So could well be the same sort of idea with Far Cry.. Saying that, HL2 maps are big, and probably that size, adding the 3D sky thing likely extends that even more then. So I reckon HL2 wouldn't have a problem doing something very similar.

While the fancy dynamic light being knocked about a bit was cool, and the shadow of the guy working on something near the start looked ok. I can't see it being a big deal after you've seen it in game a couple of times. Just like nobody makes a big deal about games running in 16mil colors these days, or that 3D objects in games even have textures atall.. Or light even, don't forget old classics like Driller :)

It looks like a cool effect, I wont argue about that, but it wont be the kind of effect that a game should base its whole selling point on like DIII seems to be doing.

I just get the feeling the shaking light fitting is gonna get overdone to the point of being compared to lens flares on the annoying scale. Everyone will want to do one, it'll get old, real fast... That'll go for the already cliche spinning fan with matching shadow and light beam effect
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I agree that it shouldn't be a selling point, but it sure as hell looks impressive to me nontheless. Doom III will most likely utilize it better than any of the other titles in terms of presentation, simply because of its closed-corridor, claustrophobic environment. From the small amount of DE:IW videos we've seen, even though the graphics aren't impressive, the real time lighting still suits the look well.
 
Originally posted by Mr. Redundant
well we do deserve it, the gaming medium has been rather "dry" the last couple years
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Word. I hope HL2 makes it this year. If not, I'm plopping dough down on DE: IW instead.
 
Originally posted by spitcodfry
Word. I hope HL2 makes it this year. If not, I'm plopping dough down on DE: IW instead.
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Im in the same boat really.
IM hoping (as niave as it may be) that Valve are the cool gamers (and just like us) they make themselves out to be, and give us a surprise this holiday...
I have no illusions that this is not the case... but a man can dream, can't he?
 
Originally posted by Mr. Redundant
yeah I have read some of George broussard's comments on the 3dr forums too... however as you stated its hard to discern bullshit from fact around there.
its easy to say something and have nothing to back your claim.
if it truely as good as he believes (and makes it sound) it has to be something revolutionary... what that means I have no idea.

however I do wish them luck and hope to see something from their side soon.
man Im gonna be broke

Hl2, Doom3, Far-Cry, Stalker, Vampire:bloodlines, Deus Ex2, Thief3 etc etc etc
well we do deserve it, the gaming medium has been rather "dry" the last couple years
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I get the impression this George fella is like the little kid trying to fit in with the bigger boys.. Doesn't matter if I'm a fan of these other games or not, fact is, they've all backed up their claims with video's and screenshots, granted, some of their claims do fall a bit short of what they actually acomplished, but they still have something to show. This guy hasn't and is putting them all down saying his will be best.

Honestly unless he comes up with something 99% close to perfect realism, he'll have built himself up for a huge fall and major humiliation (cause who's gonna believe a word he says afterwards if its all BS :))


Thats just my opinion anyway heh
 
Originally posted by Fenric1138
I get the impression this George fella is like the little kid trying to fit in with the bigger boys.. Doesn't matter if I'm a fan of these other games or not, fact is, they've all backed up their claims with video's and screenshots, granted, some of their claims do fall a bit short of what they actually acomplished, but they still have something to show. This guy hasn't and is putting them all down saying his will be best.

Honestly unless he comes up with something 99% close to perfect realism, he'll have built himself up for a huge fall and major humiliation (cause who's gonna believe a word he says afterwards if its all BS :))


Thats just my opinion anyway heh
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No you're totally right. If he doesn't have the media to back up his claims it means next to nothing. I'd like to think that he's so excited cause he knows his company has a gem they're creating, but it'll just be optimism till we see anything new. Hell, I'm sure I'll be impressed with whatever they throw at us if it's anything like the old 2001 E3 video they showed. Even though that had shit graphics, the level of interactivity looked awesome.
 
Originally posted by spitcodfry
I agree that it shouldn't be a selling point, but it sure as hell looks impressive to me nontheless. Doom III will most likely utilize it better than any of the other titles in terms of presentation, simply because of its closed-corridor, claustrophobic environment. From the small amount of DE:IW videos we've seen, even though the graphics aren't impressive, the real time lighting still suits the look well.
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Yeah.. I mean, don't get me wrong, DIII does look good (if a little too plasticy;)), and I'll likely buy it at some point. My preference is with the better realism of HL2's capabilities over the stylised appearance of DIII.. but thats just me, some people like anime, some don't, some people like horror movies when everything is always dark, some, like my dad hate that.

I imagine though that yeah for the clostraphobic(sp?) interiors, it might end up working really well for DIII. I can see it having problems with exterior area's though. But they were few and far between in the original anyway so it might be ok.

do you know if they'll be putting all the original games levels, updated and improved, with the original monsters in DIII? I seem to be one of the few who thought the Cacodeamon was a cool idea heheh
 
Originally posted by spitcodfry
No you're totally right. If he doesn't have the media to back up his claims it means next to nothing. I'd like to think that he's so excited cause he knows his company has a gem they're creating, but it'll just be optimism till we see anything new. Hell, I'm sure I'll be impressed with whatever they throw at us if it's anything like the old 2001 E3 video they showed. Even though that had shit graphics, the level of interactivity looked awesome.
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I VERY faintly remember some early stuff for it. Weren't they using the same engine as Unreal at one point? My memory sucks so I'm probably wrong about that, just sounds familiar.. I hope he is finally able to backup his claims, I'd be the first to say he made me look stupid :) But I've just seen it so many times, bragging about something and ending up not being able to keep to those claims.. hell I've done it myself in the past hehe

Have you got any links or stuff to the 01 E3 video / screenshots? Be interesting to see them properly
 
heh just googling and found this site, some crazy early images from HL1.. but also found this

http://www.gameaholic.com/games/chasm/

now I remember that game, and I loved it (it was really advanced for its time, cutting up the bad guys was great fun ;)) anyone else ever played it?
 
Originally posted by Fenric1138
I get the impression this George fella is like the little kid trying to fit in with the bigger boys.. Doesn't matter if I'm a fan of these other games or not, fact is, they've all backed up their claims with video's and screenshots, granted, some of their claims do fall a bit short of what they actually acomplished, but they still have something to show. This guy hasn't and is putting them all down saying his will be best.

Honestly unless he comes up with something 99% close to perfect realism, he'll have built himself up for a huge fall and major humiliation (cause who's gonna believe a word he says afterwards if its all BS :))


Thats just my opinion anyway heh
Click to expand...

*ahem*
John Romero is going to make you his bitch.

(same scenario)
 
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