paedophiles....

[Cons Himself]

Good for you then that you live in a country that made a lot of its money by hiding Nazi Gold pulled out of the mouths of Jewish etc victims

Anyway I digress, when someone disagrees with you, what you going to do - change their mind on the Internet? Anyone who is a liberal on the paedophile issue and thinks we just have to talk to them and treat them is seriously messed up in the head and would change their mind in a split second if they were personally affected by this sickness. *

*Not saying i have been affected - just stating a fact

 

[Absinthe]

Good for you then that you live in a country that made a lot of its money by hiding Nazi Gold pulled out of the mouths of Jewish etc victims

You're a real piece of work you make an unrelated attack against me, but then persist in the attack despite knowing that it bears no relation to me any way.

Tell me, Cons. What does Switzerland's history in WW2 have to do with me or the topic at hand? Think hard.

Anyway I digress, when someone disagrees with you, what you going to do - change their mind on the Internet? Anyone who is a liberal on the paedophile issue and thinks we just have to talk to them and treat them is seriously messed up in the head and would change their mind in a split second if they were personally affected by this sickness. *

*Not saying i have been affected - just stating a fact

You assume that there is an official liberal stance regarding the issue. That displays an ignorance on your part so dense that it's readily apparent you're not worth any kind of debate.

If the official conservative stance (Ha, what a joke) requires the use of jackboots and barbaric practices, I think I'll pass.

 

[Cons Himself]

LoL - raping children is a barbaric practice or did you conveniently forget about that in your liberal mind?

Barbarity against children deserves barbarity in return. If you disagree with that there is obviously something wrong with you. And once again - you would change your mind in a secnd if this affected your directly

 

[Stigmata]

Barbarity against children deserves barbarity in return.

"An eye for an eye would make the whole world blind"
- Gandhi

 

[Cons Himself]

Gandhi was talking about cultural clashes and civil wars - not criminal justice.

Again people can quote these liberal segments of history to me all they like.


What I know, and what every other right-thinking person knows, is that if a it was a liberal's child who was raped and murdered, we would hear a very different story from aforementioned liberal High-minded arrogance coupled with hypocrisy - gotta love it.

 

[Absinthe]

LoL - raping children is a barbaric practice or did you conveniently forget about that in your liberal mind?

Did I ever say it wasn't? Oh right, I didn't.

Barbarity against children deserves barbarity in return. If you disagree with that there is obviously something wrong with you. And once again - you would change your mind in a secnd if this affected your directly

I see no reason for barbarity to be reciprocated. It achieves nothing. You say that the torture and execution of people is a deterrent. I put it to you that there has been nothing to suggest that the severity of the punishment inversely affects the rate of the crime in this day and age.

Do I think a pedophile deserves more than 8 months in prison? I most certainly do. Do I think they deserve torture and execution? No. It's not just the fact that innocent people can be accidentally subjected to such a thing, but that I find such a practice to be immoral and counterproductive to society's development.

Would I think differently if something like this happened to me or somebody I loved? Most probably. Being blinded by my emotions and my urge to inflict harm on the man believed to be responsible would most certainly result in a change of thought. Of course, in my current objective state of mind, I'd hope that I or somebody else would restrain me. Emotional appeals are not strong arguments, Cons.

And you'd do best to drop this partisan liberal/conservative bullshit now, because it only hurts you. Not me.

 

[Lemonking]

you need to shut the **** up con watch out what your saying

 

[Stigmata]

Gandhi was talking about cultural clashes and civil wars - not criminal justice.

I'm sure it can apply just as well to this.

Killing paedophiles will not solve the problem of paedophilia. Giving murderers the death sentence has never exactly driven the murder rate down, now has it?

 

[Laivasse]

The last thing society needs is more hysteria over paedophilia atm. As kupo says, rags like the Daily Mail have got the populace trembling with paranoia over the myth of some shadowy guy on in a big jacket on a street corner, offering sweets and waiting to steal your children away. This is actually total balls since the vast majority of sexual crimes against children are perpetrated by people they know.

There's also a big hypocrisy at work. Not many years ago, the Daily Star would print features about 16 year olds getting their tops off with an air of "wur-hey! tits out for the lads now that you're old enough!" Nowadays, it's more like "anyone who has sex with anyone under 16 should be strung up and roasted!!"

Lately there's been a berserk witchhunt mentality which has, as kupo said, resulted in people not even feeling able to watch over their own kids playing in the park, or film their kids performing in a talent show. You also get stuff like the shambolic Operation Ore in the UK, where you had thousands of men arrested for child porn, and most of them ruined forever by the stigma even if they weren't charged with anything in the end. Many others were sent to prison often for little more than some pics of topless 14 year olds on some nudist beach or whatever, when you had actual molesters of children sometimes being let out quicker. I think in all the cases they investigated, the police only uncovered 1 or 2 instances of actual abuse (and you can bet they were delighted to find them). Way to waste resources and clog up the court system by pandering to hysteria, guys, good job.

So anyway, harbour whatever grudges you want against the dirty old men you believe are stalking your kids, just keep your crazy mob mentalities away from me...

 

[Cons Himself]

How are we harming normal people's development in society by dealing with these kind of offenders in such a heavy handed way?

We're not - face it. And I put it to you proove it to me that the severity of the punishment is not a deterrent. What has happened to violent crime since the days of human rights legislation started being used to protect offenders rights and not victims? What happened since we got rid of the Death Penalty? It has gone UP.

So Proove it to me - I want to see PROOF. Not words.

I know for a fact that if a sicko knew he would be physically abused as he/she abused children, and subject to mental torture, it would affect at least 1 paedophile to not act on its disgusting impulses - and that 1 change of heart makes it all worthwhile

 

[Tr0n]

yet another stupid human problem, what the hell is a paedophile trying to achieve?
Sexual pleasure from a child, more pointless than with an adult and of course suffering caused to the child which is not good.

Why can't everyone be like me, there would be no problems then.

A parents instinct is to protect a childs mental and physical welfare, both are at extreme risk of damage from contact with a paedophile, a paedophile is therefore a danger and parental instinct should be to remove the threat.
.......kill them.

No one wants to be like you, because you're probally some fatass who acts like he's superman on forums...hell you can even change both your eyes different colors and run great lengths without getting tired!

So stfu and stop acting like you're something great when you aren't and never will be.

 

[Cons Himself]

And I love the way kupo can reconcile admitting he would change his mind if it happened to him, with his current stance on this by claiming he would be blinded by emotion.

Yes my weasley friends you would be blinded by emotion because a paedophile would have impacted on you directly by raping and murderin your child

congratulations for your high minded ideals now. why try to apply them to people who have suffered from this crime - these are the people with more of a right to decide what should be done about it, than some idiot sitting at his computer in Switzerland, one of the safest countries on the face of the planet, nicely insulated from the effects of many many crimes that others must suffer in silence to pander to your conscience.

GG.

 

[ray_MAN]

Why can't everyone be like me

Oh, great philosopher, if we were all like you, the Earth itself would implode from your greatness.






:|

 

[short recoil]

No one wants to be like you, because you're probally some fatass who acts like he's superman on forums...hell you can even change both your eyes different colors and run great lengths with getting tired!

So stfu and stop acting like you're something great when you aren't and never will be.

Why get angry at me?

I havn't made a single personal attack whatsoever yet people continue to have cracks at me.

I guess it's "go for the one who acts slightly different", don't worry i'm used to it.

Oh, great philosopher, if we were all like you, the Earth itself would implode from your greatness.

Dude, i am making the point that i cause no problems to anyone through my ways, i am a completely peaceful person.
If everyone was like that then you wouldn't have paedophiles raping your kids, no uneccasary killing, no silly "human disputes".

Of course trying to give wisdom to a subject dosn't work because everyone just becomes hostile, for no reason.

 

[Stigmata]

And I put it to you proove it to me that the severity of the punishment is not a deterrent. What has happened to violent crime since the days of human rights legislation started being used to protect offenders rights and not victims? What happened since we got rid of the Death Penalty? It has gone UP.

And it's obvious you've failed to realize that there's far more than the severity of the punishment that affects the crime rate.



Perhaps there's more to paedophiles than just being disgusting. Maybe, just maybe, certain events can trigger huge changes in an individual's mind, provoking the kind of mentality that would lend itself to paedophilia. Some of them might have been completely and irreparably damaged by rejection in high school or elementary school, and they get emotionally desperate enough to try to be with underage children.

Just a thought.

 

[ray_MAN]

You are not slightly different. YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY BULLSHIT! You act as if you are Superman. You make life sound like an obstacle in your way to "ultimate greatness." Tell us, what makes you so perfect? :|

 

[PickledGecko]

There was some talk over here in the UK recently about a family that had to move home because the Paedophile that had lived on their street and abused their 7 year old daughter was released from prison after just 8 months and was free to continue living in his home!!!

8 months! Goddamm! I knew the judiciary were a liberal bunch of old rich men who dont live in the real world but 8 months! That takes the biscuit it really does.

I agree, punishment in this country, especially for the worst of crimes, is much smaller than I would like. Also, I really don’t understand what happened here, letting him back into the community is just punishing the family all over again. The police need to be able to force criminals to move out of the area they committed the crime in, or something, I’ve not really thought this through.

In my mind any crime against children whether it is sexual or physical abuse is worse than its equivalent as if it were committed by an adult against another adult.

Agreed.

Sexual crimes against children are the worst there are. Right now in the UK you can be hung for High Treason and High Treason only. Not Murder, Not Rape and not the sexual molestation of a child. This is a national disgrace.

That’s a myth. A law was passed in the ‘90s that stops the State from ever hanging anyone for any crime.

What we need are public executions for paedophiles. What we need is legalised torture and rape against paedophiles… Not only that - but we make their families watch them die.

This is where I disagree. Firstly, what did their families do to deserve that? If my brother commits a crime am I supposed to sit in his jail cell with him? Secondly, the death penalty does not deter criminals, that’s why it was abolished and I also doubt threats of torture would either. What you are suggesting is revenge, revenge is a form of lashing out, trying to make amends for what has been done to you rather than trying to fix the problem. Justice is about trying to fix the problem, a little punishment; a little rehabilitation and keeping them off the streets while it’s done. However I do agree that we need longer sentences and more proactive rehabilitation, especially when it comes to sex crimes.

We let them die as they killed - taken, abused, strangled, stabbed whatever they did to their victims should be returned to them 10 times over, and the heartache should be constant and sharp. This should serve as a warning to other sickos.

So according to this, the man who got 8 months should not have gone to jail, but should have just been molested “10 times over”? No of course not, because you are blind, blind to the fact that not all paedophiles fit into your imagined Daily-Mail-esque sense of what a paedophile actually is.

We need the iron fist of the state to come down hard on these sub humans - these unter-menschen.

There are no such things as “sub-humans”. That term was invented by those who want a bunch of people to kill another bunch of people and need to find a way of getting then to over-ride the part of their brain that stops them from killing other humans. A human is a human, regardless of their crimes or their motivations and I cannot be tricked into thinking otherwise.

Listen kupo don't be a retard. These sickos know what is right and what is wrong - they may get horrible yearnings to go out there and have sex with small children...OK, does it mean they have to act on it? No of course it doesn't. And it isn't as uncommon as you may think - these are taken from the Met's website:

Some 90,000 children a year come to the notice of police Child Abuse Investigation Units;

The Child Abuse Investigation Command investigates over 15,000 allegations of crime against children each year;

Approximately 26,500 children a year are taken into police protection

And those are just the cases we know about.

This is going to be a big shock to you so prepare yourself.

The vast majority of child sex abuse’s are committed by a family member or close friend of the family’s over a period of time. The stereotypical paedophile, the one that abducts, rapes and kills his victims is rare, that is why they are constantly reported in the tabloids. Also, the rate at which these offences happen are dropping fast, the reason it seems like its happening more and more is that the rarer and rarer it gets, the more and more tabloids write about it. Every piece of evidence, every day in the trial over years and years, they report it in their paper. So it looks like its happening every other month, but its not.

Also, bear in mind that people usually love their family. I recently watched a program on BBC1 called Why Do Bad Things Happen to Good People. It was mainly based on the troubles of a few different, honest, Christian families that have suffered. On one episode a woman talked about the years of sexual abuse she suffered at the hands of her Grandfather. The thing that struck me was that she stated many times that she loved her Grandfather, after all, he was her Grandfather. People do not stop loving because they have been hurt, so you might want to ask yourself, would that girl have been more or less likely to report her abuse if it meant terrible things happening to her Grandfather?

 

[Absinthe]

How are we harming normal people's development in society by dealing with these kind of offenders in such a heavy handed way?

You play into the hysteria. You make such barbarity a social norm. You inevitably wrongly charge innocents and then subject them to God knows what. And while I do not wish to employ a slipper slope here, It's more than likely it would promote vicious vigilanteism against suspected pedophiles. Think of the kind of doublethink such skewed morals would require. "Rape, torture, murder, bad. Rape, torture, murder of convicted pedophile good!"

No thanks. I'd prefer to think that, living in a civilized nation, we'd be above such primitive bullshit.

We're not - face it. And I put it to you proove it to me that the severity of the punishment is not a deterrent. What has happened to violent crime since the days of human rights legislation started being used to protect offenders rights and not victims? What happened since we got rid of the Death Penalty? It has gone UP.

So Proove it to me - I want to see PROOF. Not words.

Au contraire. I can't prove that figures don't exist. You supply the data. There has been, at least in the United States, nothing to support the idea that any introduced "laxness" has resulted in increased crime.

I know for a fact that if a sicko knew he would be physically abused as he/she abused children, and subject to mental torture, it would affect at least 1 paedophile to not act on its disgusting impulses - and that 1 change of heart makes it all worthwhile

And how exactly do you know this for a fact?

 

[Cons Himself]

Here's a thought for you, you spineless individual.

These people CHOOSE to rape children
They CHOOSE to murder children
They CHOOSE to ruin childrens lives and prevent them from reproducing in the female case


Why?

For their own sick sexual pleasure


LOL and you try and defend this by saying (cue whiney little voice) "maybwe they had a vewy bad childhood boo hoo sob"

Grow a spine and realise that for every Paedo out there who had a bad upbringing there is someone else out there who probably had one that was even worse, and didnt end up raping and murdering little kids.

Soppy bastard - cure the paedos. LOL. They need their jaws introduced to the kerb and a boot to the back of the head - they knew what they were doing, and they knew it was wrong. Simple mother****ing as.

 

[Stigmata]

LOL and you try and defend this by saying (cue whiney little voice) "maybwe they had a vewy bad childhood boo hoo sob"

Grow a spine and realise that for every Paedo out there who had a bad upbringing there is someone else out there who probably had one that was even worse, and didnt end up raping and murdering little kids.

Soppy bastard - cure the paedos. LOL. They need their jaws introduced to the kerb and a boot to the back of the head - they knew what they were doing, and they knew it was wrong. Simple mother****ing as.

Quite a convincing argument you've got there. The best part is where you make me out to be a spineless twelve-year-old.

I did not ONCE say that everybody that has a bad upbringing becomes a paedophile. I was giving an example of something that MIGHT cause someone to become a paedophile. Simple as that.

 

[Murray_H]

LOL and you try and defend this by saying (cue whiney little voice) "maybwe they had a vewy bad childhood boo hoo sob"

Who doesn't want them punished? Imprisonment, yes, not ****ing sodomised and then executed.

 

[Absinthe]

Since when does every pedophile rape and murder his victims.

Cons, it's obvious you've been duped by the media and it's clear you run off of their supplied stereotype.

Nobody is saying that they shouldn't be punished and nobody is "defending" them as much as they are objecting to your ridiculous views.

 

[Laivasse]

Whoa, Cons, do 2 different people use your account or what? I used to think you talked sense but now you come on here flinging out wild personal sideswipes and peddling the same scaremongering nonsense you'd find in The Sun (that's a gutter newspaper, if you're not in the UK).

I daresay torture and execution would be a deterrent to paedophiles. It would probably be a deterrent to rapists, murderers and thieves, why not do it for all of them? Because it's "not as bad"? Use your own logic - see if you can grade the awfulness of crime in the way that you're doing if someone close to you got murdered or raped, or whatever.

And yet society doesn't use torture on anyone, for anything, despite the obvious deterrent effect it might have. Now why would that be? The dangers to a civilised society in using such practices should be obvious. Since when did the law become infallible? Is there a crime in existence that someone hasn't ever been wrongly accused of? And what would it make us, the people who would be revelling so much in the extreme pain of another, just for the sake of our satisfaction? Just because the rape/murder of a child is unspeakably wrong, it doesn't make whatever we do in retribution unspeakably right.

Simply put them in prison like we always do. I for one think it's worth avoiding the death of even one unjustly hanged man, if all that is at stake is the self-satisfaction of everyone else at seeing sex offenders go into the mincer.

If you REALLY wanted to see a paedophile dead for having done something to you or your child, then you should kill them yourself, and not expect the law to do it for you. You would afterwards be accountable for your actions, as I would expect you to be.

 

[Absinthe]

Edit: Bah, nevermind.

 

[short recoil]

Everyone is a product of their genetic make up that has formed their brain and input from the environment.
Whatever you do is not really a choice, it is a reaction.
However you must think of the reasons for attacking something, destroying it or controlling it.
I mean you wouldn't say "give HIV a chance, it's just it's reaction"

It's all about weighing things up, yes the paedophile might have had a bad childhood but he has become a paedophile, with the mentality that people are not responsible for what they do, they get away with anything and soceity becomes shit.

Why oh why can't people just work together and not have any of these silly problems?
All i hear day in day out is bickering about problems caused by people themselves.
(talking as a whole rather than individually, despite the fact we all work individually it is part of soceity to work as a whole)

 

[Cons Himself]

Do I care if they were abused? No, they were aware of what they were doing - thus they deserve a painful death.

Western liberals need to grow a set of balls.

And Absinthe - go find me a regression study disputing a causal link between punishments lengths/severity and the crime rate - its called a negative co-efficient my un-learned friend.

And I dont care if it is a family member or not. Both types are as sick as each other and deserve the harshest forms of punishment imaginable.


Here's your evidence idiots:

Mussolini's Iron Prefect Cesare Mori declared war on the Mafia in the early 1930s. By the start of the war the Mafia had been effectively neutered and had all but disappeared from the land around Palermo. Guess how he did it? Well he was called the IRON prefect was he not?

If the mafia can be brought to its knees a bunch of cowardly paedos should be no problem.

 

[baxter]

I am a parent and would “kill or die” for my children. I would protect my children with my dying breath. I would never expose them to danger.

In the same token it is wrong to start suggesting that anything other than death or a slow painful death is appropriate to this type of behaviour and to suggest otherwise as a softly approach, i.e. American liberalism style is silly.

I do not pretend to understand the mind set of a child molester or the motivation behind their actions and am appalled by this type of behaviour.

I am not a left wing, do gooder, liberal who stands on the side lines and tolerates any sort of free thinking behaviour and believes a line must be drawn...

Child crime a is a disgusting, horrific crime, the fact that the punishment does not fit the crime actions is not the fault of of liberal thinking.

 

[Cons Himself]

And yet society doesn't use torture on anyone, for anything, despite the obvious deterrent effect it might have. Now why would that be? The dangers to a civilised society in using such practices should be obvious. Since when did the law become infallible? Is there a crime in existence that someone hasn't ever been wrongly accused of? And what would it make us, the people who would be revelling so much in the extreme pain of another, just for the sake of our satisfaction? Just because the rape/murder of a child is unspeakably wrong, it doesn't make whatever we do in retribution unspeakably right.

Ahahaha. You live in London - you do know WHAT is organised from Vauxhall Cross and what that organisation does in the name of HM Government

Hehe - I was taking you seriously until you came up with this excellent bit of naivity

 

[Absinthe]

What the **** does this have to do with liberals? For God's sake, Cons. Just shut the **** up already.

And I frankly don't need your condescension. I'll be honest, I can find no such study. Consider this your prime opportunity to supply quantitative data clearly displaying the direct relationship between punishment severity and deterrance.

 

[Cons Himself]

Because people with the (liberal) viewpoint that these people need treatment not punishment are a bunch of cowardly parasites - did we build our countries on wimps like these? I dont think so.

 

[Absinthe]

We never said they shouldn't be punished.

Bah, **** it. It's clear you want nothing more than a stupid pissing contest. I'm personally going to quit replying to your juvenile and unrelated liberal-bashing in this topic.

Ta. Have fun compensating for whatever it is you may be lacking.

 

[Stigmata]

Because people with the (liberal) viewpoint that these people need treatment not punishment are a bunch of cowardly parasites - did we build our countries on wimps like these? I dont think so.

Yes, because it's far more cowardly to try and aid people that might need mental help than it is to go on a witchhunt and kill every last one of them.



Cowardice and a lack of violence do not go hand in hand. With your blatant condescension, I thought you would have understood that. You disappoint me.

 

[Cons Himself]

Say what you like, but liberal arrogance and condesencion to a right-wing point of view, that unfortunately for people like you resonates with the majority of most countries, amuses me

This is why right-wing parties will always be the natural parties of Government - they have the largest natural support base.

Back OT

 

[baxter]

Because people with the (liberal) viewpoint that these people need treatment not punishment are a bunch of cowardly parasites - did we build our countries on wimps like these? I dont think so.

Excuse me did you bother to read my posting or are you just ranting off in a tangent.
Are you a parent?
Have you seen close up the devastating effects of these dreadful actions?

Just because we don't agree that lynch parties is the way forward doesn't make me a cowardly parasite

 

[Murray_H]

liberal arrogance

And you aren't demonstrating an arrogant point of view?

 

[short recoil]

Consider this your prime opportunity to supply quantitative data clearly displaying the direct relationship between punishment severity and deterrance.

Ok, go into a shop and steal an mp3 player, but give them the money for it a week later.

No one is really losing out, so it's not about treatment of other humans it is about being deterred.

You obviously weigh up the risk of the punishment.

I believe however, this is not really the point here.
It is about removing the threat of paedophiles, not punishing them.
If there is no crime then there needs no deterrance.
However, it is extremely hard to tackle the issue "at the roots"

A lot of the comments here are "burn the paedophiles!!!" type of punishments.
I have to agree with those who say this is stupid, however i will not say that punishment is not suitable to reduce the problem, providing a deterrance.

 

[Cons Himself]

Yes, because it's far more cowardly to try and aid people that might need mental help than it is to go on a witchhunt and kill every last one of them.



Cowardice and a lack of violence do not go hand in hand. With your blatant condescension, I thought you would have understood that. You disappoint me.

Yes, everyone who commits crime 'just needs mental help'. There are no evil people, and people are not responsible for their actions.

That's what you are suggesting you realise - that these people are not responsible for their actions. How ridiculously blinkered is that point of view!

They know right from wrong. A Peado knows it is wrong to rape an 8month old, yet he does it anyway. So show him the same level of mercy he showed to an infant baby - disembowling seems a good place to start? Worked for the heretics back in the day

 

[Laivasse]

Ahahaha. You live in London - you do know WHAT is organised from Vauxhall Cross and what that organisation does in the name of HM Government

Hehe - I was taking you seriously until you came up with this excellent bit of naivity

Feel free to continue to take me seriously, if you like. I didn't found the Secret Service. Even if I did, how does the fact that they've broken all sorts of laws and codes of humanity to get info/perform tasks make ANY proposal for torture more valid? This is a bizarre tangent.

The SiS know that what they sometimes do would be unacceptable to most right-minded members of the public if it got out, regardless of their effectiveness, which is why they keep their business tightly under wraps. There's no reason why Joe Civilised should respond any more warmly to your
proposal than he would to the truth about his country's intelligence services.

edit - there's no reason why he should, but sadly, he would.

 

[Stigmata]

Yes, everyone who commits crime 'just needs mental help'. There are no evil people, and people are not responsible for their actions.

That's what you are suggesting you realise - that these people are not responsible for their actions. How ridiculously blinkered is that point of view!

They know right from wrong. A Peado knows it is wrong to rape an 8month old, yet he does it anyway. So show him the same level of mercy he showed to an infant baby - disembowling seems a good place to start? Worked for the heretics back in the day

I did NOT say that they're not responsible for their actions. What I'm saying is, though they are responsible, psychological attributes and problems can and probably do have a huge effect on the outcome of the decision-making process. They know right from wrong, but they either lack the emotional or psychological integrity to make the right choice.

 

[Cons Himself]

Because often the info they get and tasks they perform benefit no one but themselves.

And I never said it prooved anything - I just used it as an eg to you, since you claimed that society (which incs the Gov) doesnt use torture against anyone

At least focusing it against paedophiles would provide more of a deterrent than exists at present!