PC Action Mag: Black Box Release Date
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All about a game you have never played. I'm sure if you have thought about it, they have too. I bet they have worked something out so that the medics aren't overpowered. Even if it turns out that way, its something they can fix after release. I'm guessing a few months after release, everything will have been buffed or nurfed so that the classes are balanced.
Cole
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Capture the Universe?CTP - Capture the Planet! How about that? Lets think bigger than flags & A4 documents
Capture the Dimensions?
-I got length bitches!
+Ha we got time mofo!
-Oh Shit!!!!!
God damn it. I actually laughed at this and now I hate myself.
Forgive me if i sound noobish, but when i played TFC the thing that i saw most was just the most insane grnade spam. There was no tactics to it, just a F*** LOAD of grenades being spammed into an area. If that aspect has been removed then i say good ridence.
Also to all you people who are complaining that TF2 isnt going to be the same as TFC BAD LUCK. This isnt TFC: Source, this is TF2. What VALVe has been saying is that games like BF dont have much variation and by changing up a few aspects about the game it makes the game more unique.
Also to all you people who are complaining that TF2 isnt going to be the same as TFC BAD LUCK. This isnt TFC: Source, this is TF2. What VALVe has been saying is that games like BF dont have much variation and by changing up a few aspects about the game it makes the game more unique.
COALslaw
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Hahha.
Do you know how utterly boring this crap is going to be once it finally comes out? taking out the nades? capture the documents?. I suppose they'll change it just enough to adopt an entirely new TF crowd and abandon their old fanbase. Pretty cool valve. well done you bunch of ****ing pricks.
Do you know how utterly boring this crap is going to be once it finally comes out? taking out the nades? capture the documents?. I suppose they'll change it just enough to adopt an entirely new TF crowd and abandon their old fanbase. Pretty cool valve. well done you bunch of ****ing pricks.
Ennui
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roflCOALslaw, mate, don't you think it's a bit twattish to judge a game before it comes out when we know very little about it?
Ennui
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You'll notice they aren't touching TFC itself. This is not TFC:Source, it's TF2, which is a sequel and they're entirely entitled to change it as much as they want! TFC is still here, and Fortress Forever is essentially TFC:Source.
You have played TFC for 5+ years, so keep playing TFC for another 5+ years.
VALVe is not forcing ANYONE to get TF2. If you think it sucks dont get it, they are not ruining your precious TFC, its still there, exactially the same.
Because they bring out a new game that takes some old idea's and makes them new idea's that might appeal to different people doesnt mean the quality of the game has been degraded.
If the people that get TF2 dont like the gameplay etc they can either go back to TFC or buy TFC if thety dont already have it.
VALVe is not forcing ANYONE to get TF2. If you think it sucks dont get it, they are not ruining your precious TFC, its still there, exactially the same.
Because they bring out a new game that takes some old idea's and makes them new idea's that might appeal to different people doesnt mean the quality of the game has been degraded.
If the people that get TF2 dont like the gameplay etc they can either go back to TFC or buy TFC if thety dont already have it.
It sounds to be unbalanaced , but a gret deal of the time is spent on playtesting , so i'm sure they made it right.
Bitching about changing the flag to doctuments must be the dumbest thing i heard. It's the same game mode , they just replaced the item - what's the fricking deal?! Documents suits the new feel of the 60` spy look.
Overall sounds good. Anticipating to see how all comes together.
Bitching about changing the flag to doctuments must be the dumbest thing i heard. It's the same game mode , they just replaced the item - what's the fricking deal?! Documents suits the new feel of the 60` spy look.
Overall sounds good. Anticipating to see how all comes together.
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Heaven forbid they should try to make it appeal to as many people as possible.
Ennui
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Obviously the game isn't going to be unbalanced. Valve does not make changes to game design at random. They know what they're doing. I suggest we put our trust in them... they've brought us a lot of great games in the past couple of years, and the only fault is their sketchy release-date / delay tendencies, not gameplay or quality. I'll just wait to see what they bring us because I know it will be worth it.
Formaldehyde
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Why do you keep saying "this is not TFC, go back to TFC" bla bla bla? That's EXACTLY the problem: TFC, TF2, QWTF, Q3F, ETF, whatever, they're all TEAM FORTRESS. They're changing it so much now that it no longer feels like a TEAM FORTRESS game. It can be fun as hell, but it will not be Team Fortress... If this was a brand new game of course I wouldn't be complaining. What pisses me off is seeying how they're butchering the whole concept of the game... I swear that until a few days ago I was REALLY excited about TF2.... until I learned they're taking the grenades out and keeping the teleporters.
Look... I actually think it looks like this game will be fun. But the biggest concern I have is that it doesn't sound like these changes will provide the game with a long lifetime, or more DEPTH than TFC. But I suppose we'll have to see...
And why exactly are they keeping the teleporters? EVERYONE hated them in TFC...
Look... I actually think it looks like this game will be fun. But the biggest concern I have is that it doesn't sound like these changes will provide the game with a long lifetime, or more DEPTH than TFC. But I suppose we'll have to see...
And why exactly are they keeping the teleporters? EVERYONE hated them in TFC...
Latest PC Zone arrived this morning with their hands-on impression of the game. It dosent mention many of the things the german mag has, but it does expand on some of the things (like the control point thing) and has pictures of the new Dustbowl (which looks awesome)
The medic invincibility is also explained. A medic fills some sort of meter while healing, and once this reaches 100% he and a team-mate can become invincible for 10 seconds. The example was on Dustbowl, where in the time before the gates open the attackers were hurting themselves (, and the medics were healing them. Once the gates opened, a medic got behind a heavy and they went out and were invulnerable for 10 seconds.
No mention of the grenade thing, but Im wondering what will happen to grenade jumping if they have removed all of the standard frag grenades. Most classes secondary grens are useless for jumping.
The medic invincibility is also explained. A medic fills some sort of meter while healing, and once this reaches 100% he and a team-mate can become invincible for 10 seconds. The example was on Dustbowl, where in the time before the gates open the attackers were hurting themselves (, and the medics were healing them. Once the gates opened, a medic got behind a heavy and they went out and were invulnerable for 10 seconds.
- Scouts can double jump
- The sniper rifle is still hold to charge, like TFC
- There is a 'hydro' map, which is used as one of the territory control maps.
- When you die, the camera cuts away and shows your attacker (hopefully this can be disabled for clan play)
- You also get little messages on death if you have done something notable. The example given was that you can be told "On the bright side: You've caused more damage as a scout in this round than ever before"
- Medics can heal disguised enemy spies.
- Engineers have a hud that shows their deployables, their status, if people are using it and health.
- Well is now a train yard, and is also a control point map.
No mention of the grenade thing, but Im wondering what will happen to grenade jumping if they have removed all of the standard frag grenades. Most classes secondary grens are useless for jumping.
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This is one of the stupider overreations I've seen...
It's a game. Seek help.
"The example was on Dustbowl, where in the time before the gates open the attackers were hurting themselves (, and the medics were healing them. Once the gates opened, a medic got behind a heavy and they went out and were invulnerable for 10 seconds."
Hmm..don't know what to think , it's cool strategy but it might be seen as some exploit. Attacking team-members to fill the medic bar.
Hmm..don't know what to think , it's cool strategy but it might be seen as some exploit. Attacking team-members to fill the medic bar.
Yeah. It was actually the Valve guys doing it though, and Robin Walker was explaining it to the reporter playing the game. Seems like they intend for it to happen, or at least know about it and will make a decision after some more playtesting.
well, the real problem is, that the elitists are usuall the ones keeping the drive in the community. it is so in cs, et, tf, tfc, starcraft, warcraft, q3, ut99 and basically any other old game that still has a big fanbase.
now from a developers standpoint (i know they have to make money) i find it not okay to wanting to attract a portion of this elitist group by leaving in just enough IP/features from the original game, while in fact changing the game altogether. this has the very sad consquence, that the community of the original game will probably collapse.
happened to ut99 with ut2k3 (which utterly destroyed any team-based approach for the game) and to q3 with q4 (although it is returning to its normal state after all).
if they want to attract the elitists (by saying they don't want to change overall class gameplay) they are bound to leave in every heavy used feature of tfc. this includes standard nades for all classes. after all these standard classes can make the difference between an emp charge not huriting an scout at all and killing him at instant. and killing a scout instantly that is gonna steal your flag can proof highly valuable.
there are countless other gameplay details like this, but there are also features that are underused in tfc like the desease. i agree that these should be changed fixed to create new possibilities.
taking out gameplay elements is NEVER giving you more possibilities, and after all, thats what everyone of us want ... possibilities to create our own experience/gameplay.
If that is so, then they should at least make it so that the the flagcarr.. I mean documentcarrier can't be made invulnerable and that an invulnerable person can't pick up the flag while invulnerable. There's just so much that could happen in 10 seconds so if they don't that feature will be way to unbalanced.
you can "balance" this very easy:
just disallow any fast movement of the characters, limit their airspeed, limit the explosion kickback and last but not least ... design the flagrooms and/or maps with narrow and/or complex geometry.
done.
however, this will destroy about 80% of the game's fun for me ...
why do publishers have to make sequels. if they want to make a new game, why not invent a new gametitle altogether?
the VERY REASON behind sequels is to take over some of the "hype", "craze", "fanbase", whatever ... call it what you want. so if they want to shift them, in my eyes they are obligated to stick to certain values the current userbase associates with the gamename and/or the brand.
splash damage is making ANOTHER enemy territory game. but they know that just calling it ET2 would have caused many problems as it will only inherit very few of Wolf : ET's basic principles. so instead of trying to immitate ET and stripping it to make it "mass compatible", they take a new approach.
new approach -> new title + new looks + new maps
with tf2, you not only have the same classes as in tf/tfc, you also play on the same maps, and basically have the same weapons. just that they really try to make it "easier". the outcome will be that the servers will empty after a few months and noone will remember it as a great game. much unlike with what happened to tf/tfc.
and i am sad because of this, becuase basically it puts them into the position where they only want to do good, but achieve only the worst ...
/edit:
and i will NEVER complain about additional features/IP to an already established system. what i AM complaining about is the removal of features/IP from systems. in this case, i denounce the removal of an established weapon system (standard nades for every class) and the removal of certain movement options. and i know that you will counter this with the "you haven't played the game yet" argument. but you know what? we both know that what i say is true. removing features/systems can only be justified if the actual feature/system is broken and/or heavily underused in the predecessor. this accounts for NIETHER standard nades, NOR bunnyjumping in both tf/tfc.
SO WHY THE **** ARE THE CALLING IT TF2? GUESS WHAT? BECAUSE THEY WANT TO SURF ON THE HYPE!
no other reason ... because we all know ... valve itself has NEVER made a good multiplayer game. hldm was q1 on hl maps with hl weapons. the gauss system was just pure luck on side of valve. other than that? dmc was a qw clone in the hl1 engine. hl2dm was ... it was hl2dm, you saw what happened. cs, garrysmod, day of defeat, the ship ... all these were "bought" by valve (not that this is a bad thing). and with cs and dod, they either largly stayed the same, or they became irrelevant to the community due to broken gameplay.
i hope you see the pattern now.
DONT FIX WHAT IS NOT BROKEN! especially if you want to benefit from it.
/edit #2:
the double jump of the scout and the invul feature of the medic are both great ideas. but both classes will break anyway if they lack the ability to gain additionally momentum. sentries only are balanced because you can "out-manouver" them with these classes. if you take away from their speed, their value will decrease, resulting in other, more static classes like the hwg, demo and the sniper to be virtually buffed. and believe me, you don't want classes that can barely move to be buffed ... after all tf is an action game, not cs.
/edit #3:
god i hope that i am all wrong on this. but ut2k4, q4, paraworld and other instances proved i am right more often than not
thats exactly my point.
by creating sequels that share only the "shippingbox" with their predecessors, you disrupt the still active community of the predecessor. splitting them into those who adapt and those who can't or don't want to adapt. this effectivly brings down the community. and this is what i can't stand.
they should name it Comic Wars or whatever. the comminities of tf, tfc and q3f would know that it has little to do with tf and just keep doing their stuff instaed of splitting and ruining their fun.
but i guess ... it's all marketing, no?
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As for the 'nades. Valve aready said why they removed them. They unify the classes a bit too much. That, IMO, seems like a pretty valid problem.
they are unify the classes too much?
have you ever played tf? tell me how scouts or medics are going to take down sentries WITHOUT standard nades?
my point is, that standard nades currently are used by almost all classes. and the point is that they are used differently with every class.
but hey, i guess if you remove bunnying and conc jumping, the scout will be useless alltogether.
bah ... so many problems arise when you remove key gameplay features.
but we will see.
but then again ... fortress forever looks promising ... its just that they are not introducing that much new features.
Jintor
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Adapt or die. It's your choice.
this is the entertainment industry, not the wildlife. realistically, the developers have deliver market needs to survive. so THEY have to adapt or get extinguished. but, since tf2 is bundeled with 2 very fine singleplayer games, it will be NO DOUBT it will sell, because the splayer games will sell. but the question is if it will also be PLAYED. actually its even far more complex than that. since marketing hypes can distort user perception to a point where everyone THINKS the game is played, but noone actually plays it ... happened with q4 3-4 months after release where the first competitive mods surfaced.
quake4 has showed that action duel shooter players have learned from the ut2k4 incident. paraworld has showed the rts players have learned from things like bfme, c&c:g and other games.
All these games have sold, but only ut2k4 has still remains from what you could call a "community". the other games got cought up in gameplay changes/removal from their predecessors (q4, c&c:g, ut2k4) or gameplay design experiments (bfme).
the trick is to realize that persistent multiplayer gaming is already a saturated market and can only be expanded (players joining long term community activities) by justified hypes. but you can also shrink (players abandoning communities) the market by unjustified hypes.
lets just hope it turns out good for tf2 and ff. but with the changes made right now, i don't see how.
M
MeeB
Guest
Hey,
we read the Preview again and again and took some more details out of it. Its more than you will find in the translation...
we are a german and also a english ressource site. Scroll down in the news and you will find the english part.
Maybe you all like to take a look.
http://www.teamfortress2.de/news_details.php?id=284
we read the Preview again and again and took some more details out of it. Its more than you will find in the translation...
we are a german and also a english ressource site. Scroll down in the news and you will find the english part.
Maybe you all like to take a look.
http://www.teamfortress2.de/news_details.php?id=284
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