Personally I really want China to become a Superpower

[Scotsman]

At the moment we have only one Superpower, the US. This is dangerous since the US needs to have an equal to check it's power. And vice-versa. China seems to be going in this path. We can't complain or do anything about China's increasing power. What we can do is accept it.

 

[gh0st]

Why dont you get off your ass and become a superpower yourself? Nobody is stopping you. If they can bludgeon their way with their 400 million strong working class into being a superpower, good for them. Their cheaply made wares are no match for American patriotism and innovation. And our 30 thousand nuclear warheads.

 

[Scotsman]

Exactly what the problem is.

Iraq defies the UN and invades a country = gets utterly crushed in a war

US defies the UN and invades a country = gets a slap on the wrist

 

[Anoma|ous]

What the hell?! China should just stay put. Don't you know that it has one of the most corrupt government on the planet, and US maybe a superpower but everything it has cost alot. Besides China isn't the only nation that would rival the US there's North Korea, they might not be superpowers but they are a real threat to be feared.

 

[Scotsman]

To gh0st: so America is morally superior to China? Yeah, probably. But look at your "buddies".

Saudi Arabia: Still decapitates, and the monarchy is all powerful
Pakistan: Its pretty much a dictatorship

And who America hates:

Venezuela: A democraticly elected president that is popular with the people, but happens to be Anti-American and left-wing. Oops!
"Old" Europe: All the powerful countries in mainland Europe. Americas claim that they were no longer important is complete bunk.

And to be honest, though this may sound harsh, the repression of millions of people in one nation is a price that can be paid for the security of six billion people.

 

[Calanen]

You are nuts if you think anything that China does is going to lead to more security anywhere.

 

[Scotsman]

And you'd be nuts to think that anything the US does is going to lead to more security anywhere.

The point is, that if both were superpowers, they would possibly check each other.

 

[Calanen]

With the major exception of saving Europe from being conquered during the Second World War...........

 

[Pogrom]

With the major exception of saving Europe from being conquered during the Second World War...........

That has entirely no relevance to the discussion at hand. 'Saving Europe' is just something the right likes to parade out whenever this kind of discussion comes up.

Personally, having spent almost half of my university degree living in China (close to two years over there) I've found it an extremely agreeable place to live.

The Government is opening up all the time, social mores are becoming much more open. Did you hear that there is no longer a 1 child policy in China? And hasn't been for over a year now?

But realistically, China will not be a military superpower for a long while yet. Do you know how hard it is to feed 1.3 billion people when only 15% of your country is arable land?

Not to mention the myriad problems adjusting a constantly changing technology to a largely unskilled workforce. I could go on and on but you get the idea.

As for matching the US, I dunno. Typically a two-sided power structure is fairly unstable. Perhaps if the EU can mobilise itself into another superpower, then we'd hav a much more stable tripod power scheme.

 

[The Monkey]

Yes, China will probably rise up and become a superpower, and so might India...but for that to happen China must become a democracy first. A democracy has a much greater economy growth than a dictatorship. As it is now, the european countries can't become a superpower of its own, not while the EU is as weak as it is. And I really hope that the EU will not become stronger, it would be a catastroph for all of the small countries in the union.

 

[Pogrom]

Yes, China will probably rise up and become a superpower, and so might India...but for that to happen China must become a democracy first. A democracy has a much greater economy growth than a dictatorship. As it is now, the european countries can't become a superpower of its own, not while the EU is as weak as it is. And I really hope that the EU will not become stronger, it would be a catastroph for all of the small countries in the union.

Well, the fact that China has the fastest growing economy in the developing world might tell you something about how necessary democracy is.

You can still have the freedom to pursue individual enterprise without a fully functioning democracy.

In fact, most third world democracies are in terrible straights, economically and fiscally speaking.

 

[Calanen]

That has entirely no relevance to the discussion at hand. 'Saving Europe' is just something the right likes to parade out whenever this kind of discussion comes up.

No it was relevant - because Scotsmen said I was nuts for saying that 'anything' the US would do would lead to better security forthe world.

And here is something that the US has done, not an example, not a fictitious maybe sometime - but a concrete of example of something the US has done which has led to greater stability. It fell within the realm of 'anything'.

And jumping into other threads with a tit for tat argument because you did not like me calling a halt to the mindlessness of equating patriotism to Nazism in another thread is just more childishness.

 

[Scotsman]

The Soviet Union fought 3/4 of the German Army. The British, French (in one form or another) and Canadians also fought Germany for 2 more years than the US. The US did have its lend-lease program, took major part in the ETO in late 1944-1945, and helped postwar Europe financially, but they were not Europe's lone saviors

 

[Calanen]

but they were not Europe's lone saviors

Did not say they were. But it was an example of the USA doing something to increase stability in the world. A significant example.

And Canada, UK, Britain (France?) all of them together could have never defeated the Germans without the USA. Russia maybe could have by itself eventually, but then all of Europe would have fallen behind the Iron Curtain instead of just the East.

 

[Mith']

And without the sabotage mission at Rjukan, Norway, arranged by the brits, the world COULD be pretty screwed...The US helped, but they don't deserve ALL the glory..

 

[The Mullinator]

Yes lets get ourselves a second super power. Problem is we all know what happened the last time there were two super powers in the world. A very large portion of the human race became close to being whiped out on a few occasions.

People complain about the existance of one super power. Problem is this, with two super powers they will compete on a very large scale and cause major problems. With no super powers there will be a lot more squabling between individual nations and the situation will be quite pathetic.

I prefer sticking with the U.S. as being the only super power thank you very much.

 

[Pogrom]

No it was relevant - because Scotsmen said I was nuts for saying that 'anything' the US would do would lead to better security forthe world.

And here is something that the US has done, not an example, not a fictitious maybe sometime - but a concrete of example of something the US has done which has led to greater stability. It fell within the realm of 'anything'.

And jumping into other threads with a tit for tat argument because you did not like me calling a halt to the mindlessness of equating patriotism to Nazism in another thread is just more childishness.

Well, for your information I didn't come to this thread just to argue in a tit for tat manner. In case you're only skim reading, I have actually lived in China, and I thought I had something relevant to contribute to the thread topic.

And I stand by my argument - we are talking about a completely different time in a completely different global political situation. Sure, the US has done some great things in the past. They have also done some downright nasty, dirty and illegal stuff as well.

Back on topic - I hope China does become a superpower - but not for the simple OMG I HOPE THEY STANDS UP TO THE USA! reason. I personally think it is inevitable, and a much healthier political situation when there are multiple global superpower without multiple competing global ideologies.

 

[kirovman]

Yeah, I have been to China many times, for work etc, and it is a very agreeable place to live.

They are becoming more democratic but it is not going to be an overnight change. They will need to transform their living standards of a lot of the populace, the rural areas are still very poor. Once a majority of the people have reasonable living standards, they will begin to question the rights they have in political freedoms, and the communist party will need to give way a bit.

I don't think they're dangerous in the conventional sense. If they want to seek hemony in the world, they will use their oldest tactic - flood surrounding areas with Han Chinese and claim it for China later. They aren't going to start wars they can't win.

But their way of thinking is very similar to the Japanese (and you may well argue less brutal), and Japan is recognised as a democracy today.

I think if China is smart enough to become a superpower, they will be smart enough to use that power wisely.

Remember they were very powerful and rich for a large period of time in the past. They just got lazy, and overtaken by colonial powers. They are now making up for lost time, playing catch up, and rebuilding from all the wars/one sided trade Western and Imperial Japan used to destroy them. We only have our own nations to blame for their rise...

 

[Foxtrot]

Exactly what the problem is.

Iraq defies the UN and invades a country = gets utterly crushed in a war

US defies the UN and invades a country = gets a slap on the wrist

Because obviously Iraq had good intentions for the country when invading it, against, another complainer ignoring the facts. Why don't you try somthing new? This is getting quite old.

 

[Pogrom]

Yeah, I have been to China many times, for work etc, and it is a very agreeable place to live.

They are becoming more democratic but it is not going to be an overnight change. They will need to transform their living standards of a lot of the populace, the rural areas are still very poor. Once a majority of the people have reasonable living standards, they will begin to question the rights they have in political freedoms, and the communist party will need to give way a bit.

I don't think they're dangerous in the conventional sense. If they want to seek hemony in the world, they will use their oldest tactic - flood surrounding areas with Han Chinese and claim it for China later. They aren't going to start wars they can't win.

But their way of thinking is very similar to the Japanese (and you may well argue less brutal), and Japan is recognised as a democracy today.

I think if China is smart enough to become a superpower, they will be smart enough to use that power wisely.

Remember they were very powerful and rich for a large period of time in the past. They just got lazy, and overtaken by colonial powers. They are now making up for lost time, playing catch up, and rebuilding from all the wars/one sided trade Western and Imperial Japan used to destroy them. We only have our own nations to blame for their rise...

I agree wholeheartedly about the overnight change thing. There is not going to be another Tiananmen Square, nor will there be social upheaval. It will be a gradual transition - much like the organic process experienced in the west.

And kirovman has a good point about China being intelligent enough to manage themselves. In the end I believe the Chinese are pragmatists, and just want to get along in the world as best they can. They are not going to stride about belligerently when diplomacy will work just as well.

 

[JellyWorld]

You are insane, China is one of the most repressive nations in the world, the Government silences the media, political dissidents disappear mysteriously, I'd say it's almost as bad as iraq.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

The problem is it's not a benevolent state becoming one- it's China.

This nation has serious human rights issues, communist agenda, and many threatening problems.
This only leads to -dangerous- tension with them rising, nothing good. Also, chances are they wouldn't care to check US policies unless they affected them directly, they'd use their power to different means (Taiwan, etc)

 

[kirovman]

You are insane, China is one of the most repressive nations in the world, the Government silences the media, political dissidents disappear mysteriously, I'd say it's almost as bad as iraq.

The media isn't silenced, but it is quite censored, fair enough.
YOU think it's as bad as Iraq? Tell me, have you been to either, or are you making idle speculation? I feel safer in China than the USA (just from the fact citizens don't ride about with guns, etc), but I would never goto Iraq.

You can say how bad the CCP is in the streets of Beijing, just can't make an organised political group. But they are improving, even since Tiananmen Square (15 years ago) which frightened them into improving rights a bit.
As I say it is going to be gradual change.
Maybe you should goto Japan first, and compare with Shanghai afterwards. Only difference for me is Japanese people are quieter, (seemly more supressed?)

Honestly, you remind me of this Blackadder episode:
"My Lord, they say her eyes are more blue than the famous Rock of Galverstone!"
"Have you seen this stone before?"
"No, but my friends have!"
"An have you seen this woman?"
"No, my lord"
"Oh, and have these friends seen this woman?"
"Hah, shouldn't think so my lord!"
"So what you're telling me is that you think something you have never seen before is slightly less blue than something else you have seen before?"

The problem is it's not a benevolent state becoming one- it's China.

This nation has serious human rights issues, communist agenda, and many threatening problems.
This only leads to -dangerous- tension with them rising, nothing good. Also, chances are they wouldn't care to check US policies unless they affected them directly, they'd use their power to different means (Taiwan, etc)

Tell me, during the industrial revolution we didn't treat workers and our own citizens badly.

Communist agenda, pah, it's communist only by party name, even a lot of Chinese tell me that.

Also Taiwan could be compared to Cuba, which the USA thought of invading, and still hold grudges against now.

China is clearly not communist, it is one of the most capitalist societies I have seen.

The control over the populace will diminish as they become more self aware of themselves. This will happen in the next century.

After this, maybe they will democratically seek invasion of Taiwan one day. What then? 1.3 billion vs. 30 million-ish (can't remember).

 

[Javert]

Bipolarity does not guarantee peace. China will only be a threat to the United States if they perceive them as a threat.
Though power between the two will be wrested not by might, but by economy.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

The media isn't silenced, but it is quite censored, fair enough.

Any dissenting media IS silenced. It's not editted to just seem a little biased- those who speak out are put into prison.

YOU think it's as bad as Iraq? Tell me, have you been to either, or are you making idle speculation? I feel safer in China than the USA (just from the fact citizens don't ride about with guns, etc), but I would never goto Iraq.

I don't think he's talking about Iraq as in the security situation now, I believe he means Saddam Era Iraqi government compared to Chinese government oppression. I think Saddam was worse but not by all that much.

You can say how bad the CCP is in the streets of Beijing, just can't make an organised political group. But they are improving, even since Tiananmen Square (15 years ago) which frightened them into improving rights a bit.
As I say it is going to be gradual change.
Maybe you should goto Japan first, and compare with Shanghai afterwards. Only difference for me is Japanese people are quieter, (seemly more supressed?)

Doesn't seem that way from recent actions. Namely the imprisonment of the SARS doctor who blew the whistle on the government, and crackdown on dissent recently

Tell me, during the industrial revolution we didn't treat workers and our own citizens badly.

This isn't a hundred years ago.

Communist agenda, pah, it's communist only by party name, even a lot of Chinese tell me that. China is clearly not communist, it is one of the most capitalist societies I have seen.

Not for it's citizens, the small businessman is crushed.

Also Taiwan could be compared to Cuba, which the USA thought of invading, and still hold grudges against now.

We almost did invade, on the hair of it even. My grandfather tells me stories about how they were moved to Florida in preparation to do so (USAF) but then they didn't. This isn't good for Taiwan being in the same position.

The control over the populace will diminish as they become more self aware of themselves. This will happen in the next century.

It needs to happen ASAP. Waiting a hundred years for freedom is not acceptable.

After this, maybe they will democratically seek invasion of Taiwan one day. What then? 1.3 billion vs. 30 million-ish (can't remember).

That wouldn't be good. Taiwan doesn't need to lose it's freedom.

 

[Sprafa]

Any dissenting media IS silenced. It's not editted to just seem a little biased- those who speak out are put into prison.

True. Still, the situation is looking as it is improving. Time will tell.

I don't think he's talking about Iraq as in the security situation now, I believe he means Saddam Era Iraqi government compared to Chinese government oppression. I think Saddam was worse but not by all that much.

That is absolute bullshit. Look at Honk Kong. Look at Macau. They're being a lot more benevolent now than ever before. You can't even compare Saddam to these guys, they're not gasing people, they're not deliberately keeping their populace poor for better control. The truth is that they want to join in the international community "peacefully" and without restraints, and no one is arguing about it when they take millions of dollars from worser people to fund their reelection campaign .

Doesn't seem that way from recent actions. Namely the imprisonment of the SARS doctor who blew the whistle on the government, and crackdown on dissent recently

As I've said, the situation is improving.

This isn't a hundred years ago.

Whether you like it or not there are countries a lot farther backwards. And no one's doing a thing about them.

We almost did invade, on the hair of it even. My grandfather tells me stories about how they were moved to Florida in preparation to do so (USAF) but then they didn't. This isn't good for Taiwan being in the same position.

There's something called "good sense" in the mind of Chinese national leaders. Something that many Americans lack
They have something called "China's peaceful rise".

It needs to happen ASAP. Waiting a hundred years for freedom is not acceptable.

Tell that to the people in Darfur. Tell that to the people in Saudi Arabia. Tell that to the people in Myanmar. Tell that to the people in Cuba. You do that, and we'll talk later.

That wouldn't be good. Taiwan doesn't need to lose it's freedom.

Technically, Taiwan isn't even independent. They are the "Republic of China", meaning, they believe they are the actual representatives of democratic China. The People's Republic of China wants to integrate them like they did with Honk Kong and Macau, and I think it wouldn't harm anyone (but a few independists, but hell, if they have their heads checked they'll run away).

 

[Calanen]

Tell me, during the industrial revolution we didn't treat workers and our own citizens badly.

Did we have state run 're-education' camps for people who disputed politicians?

Are talkshow hosts who speak out about the government threatened with death if they do not resign?

Did we massacre peaceful protesters with an armoured column? And don't say it would not happen today. It would. Its just that people are not stupid enough to try it again.

Are prisoners worked in gulags with dangerous chemicals and without protection equipment in the United States?

China is not some benevolent land of milk and money - and that doesn;t change just because you lived there and had a chinese gf. If you had your own radio show criticising the Central Government, you'd find out pretty darn quickly just how much they like political dissent.

So if the Left wants to paint China as the good guys fine. But I think you will see in a few years just how 'nice' and 'benevolent' China is when it kills a whole of people in Taiwan.

And if the Tianneman Square Massacre is all forgotten aberration, China are nice guys now - how come there are still so many of the original students in jail, as at 2000 some 11 years later. Im sure most of them are still in jail and I wish I had an up to date link.

http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/china/prisoners2000.pdf

And how about the report on China by Amnesty International:

Serious human rights violations continued and in some respects the situation deteriorated. Tens of thousands of people continued to be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned for peacefully exercising their rights to freedom of expression, association or belief. Some were sentenced to prison terms; many others were administratively detained without charge or trial. The “strike hard” campaign against crime launched in April 2001 was renewed for a further year. According to interim figures available, the crack-down led to at least 1,921 death sentences, many imposed after unfair trials, and 1,060 executions. Torture and ill-treatment remained widespread and appeared to increase as a result of the campaign.

Full report here:

http://web.amnesty.org/report2003/chn-summary-eng

Yeah I want these guys running the world as the next superpower......they seem like a wonderfully enlightened country.

 

[Sprafa]

For the last time, China IS NOT a nice country. Without a doubt, they are NOT good, "freedom-loving" people.

But the truth is that they have continued a policy of peaceful rise and there is no indication that they will revert that, therefore if they are able to bring some more estability and repercussion to the World geopolitics, some people believe they are welcome to do so.

 

[kirovman]

I believe they will get their own freedom fairly soon in the future.

If they transformed into democracy overnight they would collapse (see Russia),

As for western nations, well we just treat other people's citizen's badly...that's ok I guess?

China's great if you have money. If not you're pretty much screwed. Same as the USA? In Europe, if you don't have money, it's a bit better than either of these two.

Full report here:
http://web.amnesty.org/report2003/Usa-summary-eng
http://web.amnesty.org/report2003/Gbr-summary-eng
http://web.amnesty.org/report2003/Fra-summary-eng

[SARCASM]Yeah I want these guys running the world as the next superpower......they seem like a wonderfully enlightened country.[/SARCASM]
China doesn't listen to our human rights complaints because we are not exactly role models ourselves. In fact they compile their own complaints against us in response. Watch this Question Time about human rights in China.

If we really think they are the evil of all evils when it comes to human rights, we should make a stand now, stop trading with them, we are mearly fuelling the exploitation of cheap labour.

I wouldn't like China to be a superpower NOW, but their future generations of government are going to have a better education, better view of life, broad understanding of the world (probably most of the communist party members will have been educated overseas in a couple of generations).
The current generation of communist party are still tainted by Cultural Revolution, Tiananmen Square.

Their democracy is extremely limited and corrupt now, but I bet it will broaden out, they can't keep a billion people down forever, once they are economically satisfied, they will look to become politically satisfied.

And just because I disagree with the USA's policies doesn't make me a lefty.
I consider myself a bit conservative (although I like Labour's policies currently over the Conservative's), I like to play a bit of Devil's Advocate - arguing the case of a side I may not necessarily agree with in my views - but who is poorly represented.

As a lawyer you should know all about playing Devil's Advocate.

 

[Pogrom]

This isn't a hundred years ago.

It needs to happen ASAP. Waiting a hundred years for freedom is not acceptable.

No, it isn't. But, one hundred years ago China was still a peasant based feudal culture, run by corrupt artstocrats. I've spoken to a 94 year old man in Yunnan province in China. He told stories of what he remembers under the feudal system, and the short-lived Nationalists (Koumintang) after.

He described stories of poor people being asked to entertain aristocrats or corrupt generals (those who then fled to Taiwan). How did they entertain them? By playing musical instruments while the rich fired fireworks at them! They were not even allowed to see a doctor until after the show was over.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: You cannot expect a country and culture to simply embrace democracy because it works in the west. They need to go through the process of maturation before it will work. And in terms of maturation, China is still AT LEAST a hundred years behind the west.

Not for it's citizens, the small businessman is crushed.

That's utter bullcrap. China is full of small businessmen. Sure, they don't make as much as the mega-corporations, but you show me one country where they do.

Don't make sweeping generalisations like that with no proof. It is simply not true.

Did we have state run 're-education' camps for people who disputed politicians?

Are talkshow hosts who speak out about the government threatened with death if they do not resign?

Did we massacre peaceful protesters with an armoured column? And don't say it would not happen today. It would. Its just that people are not stupid enough to try it again.

Are prisoners worked in gulags with dangerous chemicals and without protection equipment in the United States?

Is China making children as young as six work in factories? Britain and the US did.

And what about the US? A country that endorsed slavery.

I don't think countries like that should be running the world now. Oh wait... look, they changed.

Much as sprafa and kirovman are saying, China is evolving. Which is fine - as they are not going to turn into a superpower overnight.

And then we'll see and judge.

 

[seinfeldrules]

But the truth is that they have continued a policy of peaceful rise and there is no indication that they will revert that, therefore if they are able to bring some more estability and repercussion to the World geopolitics, some people believe they are welcome to do so.

Whats the deal with the new Taiwan anti-secession law then?

 

[Pogrom]

Whats the deal with the new Taiwan anti-secession law then?

That is simply to bring political pressure to bear. Upon Taiwan and the US. The US doesn't have a monopoly on placing political pressure.

There is no easy answer to the Taiwan issue. But I think the improving economic ties with the mainland will eventually bring Taiwan back into the fold.

It just may take a few generations.

 

[No Limit]

Why dont you get off your ass and become a superpower yourself? Nobody is stopping you. If they can bludgeon their way with their 400 million strong working class into being a superpower, good for them. Their cheaply made wares are no match for American patriotism and innovation. And our 30 thousand nuclear warheads.

Wow, you must feel special :thumbs:.

You really need to learn that if we **** up we won't always be able to win every situation.

 

[seinfeldrules]

That is simply to bring political pressure to bear. Upon Taiwan and the US.

I fail to see how it has anything to do with the US unless war is declared. Apparently China claims they will peacefully rise to power, the declaration and manner in which it was performed seemed quite hawk-like to me.

 

[Pogrom]

I fail to see how it has anything to do with the US unless war is declared. Apparently China claims they will peacefully rise to power, the declaration and manner in which it was performed seemed quite hawk-like to me.

Well, nobody can blame the US of being overly diplomatic in their foreign dealings either

As to how it concerns the US, it is more of a 'butt out, and let us handle our own internal affairs'. It is not like Taiwan is an independant state or anything. But let's not go down that long road again, at least in a different thread.

 

[Calanen]

As a lawyer you should know all about playing Devil's Advocate

If the devil has the demonstrable means to pay the hourly fee - then he has himself an attorney.

 

[Calanen]

That is simply to bring political pressure to bear. Upon Taiwan and the US. The US doesn't have a monopoly on placing political pressure.

There is no easy answer to the Taiwan issue. But I think the improving economic ties with the mainland will eventually bring Taiwan back into the fold.

It just may take a few generations.

They don't have that long. The people of Taiwan I'm guessing have about 5 years to agree to join Communist China or die. And what's this 'back into the fold' rubbish. The people in Taiwan, do not want to be part of China. They want to be left alone to do their own thing. Its just that there is a big bully with a heap of guns across the Taiwan Straits aimed in their direction.

 

[gh0st]

Wow, you must feel special :thumbs:.

You should too, you're part of the greatest country on earth.

You really need to learn that if we **** up we won't always be able to win every situation.

Well if we ****ed up, I guess then by default we wouldnt be able to win every situation -- though I'm wondering how you exactly came to the conclusion that that is what I think.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

I really really dont..

 

[Pogrom]

They don't have that long. The people of Taiwan I'm guessing have about 5 years to agree to join Communist China or die. And what's this 'back into the fold' rubbish. The people in Taiwan, do not want to be part of China. They want to be left alone to do their own thing. Its just that there is a big bully with a heap of guns across the Taiwan Straits aimed in their direction.

Well, just wanting to be a different country doesn't mean that it will happen. What if Tasmania decided they wanted to be a separate country? And then when the rest of Australia wanted to bring them back, a foreign country came in and said "No, I reckon they can be their own country". To reiterate, Taiwan has never delared independance from China. How would you feel if another country barged in and protected the Confederate States during the American Civil War?

And in the last Taiwanese election, the current government was only voted in by the narowest of margins, over the Nationalist party which favours moving closer back to China.

And as for the "back into the fold" statement, that is an educated guess based upon observation of both places. There is an awful lot of back and forth across the straits. Many of the non-native Taiwanese come from Fuzhou, and there is still a lot of business between these two places. Moreover, it is growing at a tremendous rate as we speak.

They speak the same dialect (as well as Mandarin), much investment is going both ways, they listen to the same pop stars, watch the same movies.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Taiwan economy becomes inextricably linked with the mainland's economy.

A friend of mine (a Texan) who has been teaching English in Taiwan for 5 years met up with me in Beijing. We compared notes and didn't find much different in the day to day life of Taiwanese and Chinese.