Piracy

[PimpinPenguin]

I could not disagree more with this blog. Chris Taylor is right: In a few years there will be no tripple-a games that can be played without a consistent broadband connection. That is the only thing that can save PC-gaming against the malignant cancer that is piracy.

I could not disagree more with you, First customers will be pissed at always having to be online to play a single player game. Just look at Steam, it's reasonable in letting you play off-line and only needing to activate once, yet people still complain about that. Also i would resent needing to be online constantly cause i like to play games on my laptop when i'am on the train etc., were there is no internet. This would mean i wouldn't be able to play a game i bought just because they think i'am a pirate.

Also adding protection they requires consistent broadband connection won't fix the problem as there are always ways round it, the pirates will eventually break the protection, and people like me who would buy the game would pirate it because of the stupid protection. And i think the industry is starting to realise that, Ubisoft have ditched Starforce,2K removed the installation limit in Bioshock.

 

[boglito]

I could not disagree more with you, First customers will be pissed at always having to be online to play a single player game. Just look at Steam, it's reasonable in letting you play off-line and only needing to activate once, yet people still complain about that. Also i would resent needing to be online constantly cause i like to play games on my laptop when i'am on the train etc., were there is no internet. This would mean i wouldn't be able to play a game i bought just because they think i'am a pirate.

Also adding protection they requires consistent broadband connection won't fix the problem as there are always ways round it, the pirates will eventually break the protection, and people like me who would buy the game would pirate it because of the stupid protection. And i think the industry is starting to realise that, Ubisoft have ditched Starforce,2K removed the installation limit in Bioshock.

You are right that people complain alot, but you are wrong in thinking that complainers vote with their dollars.
As time passes there will be less places without internet. For example, a major buscompany in the country I live last week anounced that they would implement internet connectivity on all their long-distance routes. More will follow.
The kind of protection Chris Taylor has in mind cannot be cracked any easier than the protection of WoW or TF2, which is to say that it can technically be cracked, but it wont be easy to use the crack, which will make it inaccessible to 90% of potential users.

The main problem with your (and Evo's) stance on piracy is that you offer no remedy. And no, taking away cd-checks is not a remedy against piracy.

 

[Asknoone]

must...resist......must show evidence

OH THE LOL

 

[Druckles]

I think you're both at the extreme where there's a middle ground which should be had. I don't believe removing all pirate-restrictions is the answer, it will simply make pirating easier, and they're there for a reason. But a digital distribution service like Steam could be our answer. While allowing you to play online, they still require the connection to the internet, but in a very flexible sense. I think that Steam, while having its faults and annoyances, has helped fight Pirating on the PC considerably. But making a consistent broadband connection necessary is absurd.

But then I can guarantee that finding somewhere without a consistent broadband connection will soon be a greater problem than finding one.

 

[AiM]

Companies need to learn to have faith in customers, period. The bloated lost revenue figures they throw around are absurd since it's illogical to assume every pirate equals lost sales. The pirates who will do anything in their power to avoid paying for the game should not be a target for companies to focus on. It would be better for companies to accept this as an unchangeable constant. Instead, they should go after the pirates who pirate because they're unsure of the value the game brings to them. If they can provide quality and convenience to the customers (e.g. StarDock / Valve) and have trust in the honest customers, then they'll be better off than trying to assume everyone is a pirate and shovel ridiculous anti-piracy measures down our throats.

Case in point, Blizzard and Valve both excel in these aspects. Blizzard provides updates for virtually all their games and maintains Battle.net without any charge. This quality and convenience is not easily duplicated without breaching copyrights (e.g. BnetD), and rather than be forced to play on crappy emulations of Bnet, most customers would rather pay the money in order to enjoy the service. Finding ways to provide incentives for legit customers is IMO the best way forward. Companies need to segment and find their target markets within their potential customers and create their strategy accordingly. Trying to target the entire customer base by implementing intrusive anti-piracy measures will only alienate the legitimate users as it gives them no incentive to purchase a legit version over downloading a pirating copy.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Awesome post, I haven't ever really thought of it that way.

I think what Evo was trying to get at was the irony in punishing people who actually went to the trouble to buy the game, when such measures are easily circumvented by those who just pirate it. If you're going to protect your game from piracy, don't do it in a way that punishes the people who didn't pirate it. Whether or not introducing something like needing a constant broadband connection to play games will be a good idea further down the track remains to be seen, but I think it's pretty clear that a good amount of people would be put off were it implemented now, which in turn would mean only bad things for PC gaming as a whole.

I think more realisitically, as broadband becomes faster and more widely used, it's likelier that digital distribution will ultimately rule the day. To that end, it might be a better use of the PC industry's valuable time and effort to introduce more incentives to buy games rather than more deterrants to pirate them. For example, instead of making a net connection compulsory, why not just keep it optional and instead reward people for having one? With something like Steam you've already got a number of tools that support and enhance the core experience - achievements, leaderboards, communities etc. that people who pirate the games likely won't have access to. Broadband is definitely widespread enough to justify something like that on a wider scale, whereas imposing restrictions and rendering people without the net unable to even play is only going to lose you customers.

Anyway, whatever the future holds for PC gaming, I'm definitely behind the idea that the industry should be breaking down more walls rather than building them up.

Edit - Also, what he said ^^^

(lol)

 

[Deleted member 56031]

I think what Evo was trying to get at was the irony in punishing people who actually went to the trouble to buy the game, when such measures are easily circumvented by those who just pirate it. If you're going to protect your game from piracy, don't do it in a way that punishes the people who didn't pirate it.

This. The same thing happened to me with Civ 4 as I have daemon tools installed on my computer

 

[stemot]

A little bit away from the current topic, but still a piracy one...

Assassins Creed for the PC has leaked in an unfinished form (an unfinished press copy with a corrupted file that makes it crash when trying to enter one of the citys) and one of the devs of it went doolally flip over it on a forum, going even as far as to say "**** the PC", which to me is a little stupid when that is your target audiance.
I guess he was pissed off about the leak to say the least.

Now, I had no intentions of buying this game, with the system requirements released stating you need 3Gig of Ram (I have 1GB), I was thinking they hadn`t even tried to port it well.
Then the leak happened so my curiosity was peaked as to really how shitty it would run on my system, so I downloaded it.
I get 30 or above frames per second at all times and it is a great port, even with the random crash bugs in this early build present.
Now I have the game pre-ordered, and I would not have done this had it not been for that leak, and I know I`m not the only one who has done this.
Ubi recent PC ports have been that shitty, that people didn`t want to risk money on another one, and this early build getting pirated has in fact peaked these peoples interest again now they know it`s a decent job done on the game.

No doubt the game will still be heavily pirated, but that would have happened anyway, but now some of us are ready to buy it thanks to piracy.

 

[Baserape>]

I'm not going to go into the right and wrongs of piracy as it is a never ending debate but I will give you some advice. If a PC game does not work on your system or the quality is not what you expected return the game to the place of purchase for a full refund.

Places such as Game have a no returns policy for PC games which is company policy. The problem with company policy is that it is not consumer law. So if any item you buy is not fit for the purpose you are entitled to a full refund, end of/

 

[Kyorisu]

Assassins Creed for the PC has leaked in an unfinished form (an unfinished press copy with a corrupted file that makes it crash when trying to enter one of the citys) and one of the devs of it went doolally flip over it on a forum, going even as far as to say "**** the PC"

Can't find anything via google but I'd hope they reprimand that guy big time. Yes piracy is bad but that doesn't mean you insult the entire platform which contains legitimate buyers.

Places such as Game have a no returns policy for PC games which is company policy. The problem with company policy is that it is not consumer law. So if any item you buy is not fit for the purpose you are entitled to a full refund, end of/

Many people are stupid though. Seriously if you're a consumer you should know your rights.

 

[VirusType2]

when you buy a movie, it often has 10 minutes of movie previews, and other forced viewing. Disney is the worst when it comes to this. 10 years from now, I don't want to put in my "cars" movie, and be forced to watch previews of movies "coming to theatres soon!" when the movie came out so many years ago.

I don't mind if movies have room (without compressing the main feature movie) to fit some movie previews on there, sure no problem, but only if they are accessed through the main menu so I can watch them if I want, when I want.

Sometimes, if I'm bored, I'll watch the previews. but when I get home and am forced to watch 10 minutes of movies that I've already seen, it really peeves me.

I don't even really like previews because they are soft of like spoilers.


As for games, I stopped buying them because I'm tired of installing them, being forced to jump through loops to prove that it is real, have it check my system and monitor my software and drives, and still require that I put the disc in the drive to play it, when everything is on the hard drive. I don't have over 1.5 Terra-bytes of hard drive space so I can put the pussy little 700MB CDRom in the drive to play. Kiss my ass. the first thing I used to do was download the crack to play it without the disc. I've got 1000's of CD's and DVD's and if I have to shuffle through them to select a game, by the time I do that, I don't even feel like playing anymore. I'm dead serious. I'm disgusted. I'm so disgusted, that I won't even bother cracking them anymore. The games I've bought, I won't play anymore. I just want to click a little icon, and get lost in a game, movie, or song for a little while, and then get on with my life.

I also rip my DVD movies to my hard drive as well, after I remove the previews (see above). There I keep my perfect copy of the movie in it's case, on my shelf where it won't get damaged the first time i touch it or drop it or scratch it. If they weren't so greedy with their cost cutting measures, they would have given the Disc a proper sleeve like the good ol floopy discs have.

I quit. I'm done with video games. Games like GTA IV and spore interest me, but I don't feel like dealing with it anymore.


i think what put me over the edge was steam. I bought half-life2 episode 1, and got to play it once. Then I no longer had internet, and the game doesn't work anymore. For some reason, i have to be connected to the internet at all times to play episode 1, lost coast, and whatever else in 1 player mode. Lost Coast was FREE! Free with Half-life2 and it won't let me play it without being online... =/ At least, I'd rather be required to have the disc in my drive and be hassled than to not be able to play episode 1 at all without being on the internet. A shame because half-life2 was one of my favorite games of all time. Now I hate it. If your game gives me problems when I want to play it, I'll just play something else. And next time, I'll buy something else. So think about that when you install anti-piracy measures on your games. I have access to the internet intermittently, and when I finally get online, the last thing I'm going to do is play an offline game, wasting my precious access time!


I think for many people, the days of searching for fixes to get your games to work right are over. I bought Half-life2 and went through a lot of trouble to fix some texture bug (never did fix the sound looping problem). Now a days, I'll just give up. I don't have hours and hours anymore to try to find a way to get things to work right. That is the developers job. I can't really complain about incompatibility this time I guess, since my PC didn't meet the minimum specs - however, this is not always the case.

And another thing - If my 'most powerful audio processor in the world' X-Fi sound card can't play the games simple sound effects correctly, this is just unacceptable. I won't ever buy your games anymore. I also won't buy a creative product anymore. People are fed up - at least I am.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The biggest anti-piracy measure is to make quality games, music, or films, and to sell them at a good price, that is at least as good as the pirated version, since the pirated version usually is better (see above).

I bought hundreds of movies at $3 - $5 each, and haven't bought any at a higher price and never will. Marketing should think about pricing, as that is the main problem, they are asking as much as they can possibly get for something, and expecting it to fly off shelves. If they sell their products at a low price, many times more people will buy it, meaning more profit for them. STUPID MONKEYS!

And when it comes to music, how about giving people value. A Double CD doesn't cost them much more, but they get a bonus disc with some songs on there, maybe B-sides, or songs that they don't feel are good enough for the main album, or whatever they want. Just give people value, that is all they want.

I am seriously considering uploading 100's of songs that I wrote/made, and sharing them with the world for free, with a donation feature on my website to where you can support me if you enjoy it and want to encourage me to create more. Copyrighted, but NOT copy protected. Copy encouraged. You will see...

 

[Gargantou]

^Wow, self-advertising at it's worst.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Some good points are made but I would like to comment on one particular clause - I nitpick:

In recent years we have seen Sony fall foul of excessive Digital Rights Management (DRM) when they installed a spyware rootkit on their music CDs.

This misses the point a little. Sony's actions there weren't just "excessive"; it wasn't just a case of them being a little too overzealous. They were installing spyware on your computer without your knowledge. That's not just excessive. That's malicious. That's repulsive. And I'm fairly sure it's criminal.

 

[AiM]

I bought hundreds of movies at $3 - $5 each, and haven't bought any at a higher price and never will. Marketing should think about pricing, as that is the main problem, they are asking as much as they can possibly get for something, and expecting it to fly off shelves. If they sell their products at a low price, many times more people will buy it, meaning more profit for them. STUPID MONKEYS!

And when it comes to music, how about giving people value. A Double CD doesn't cost them much more, but they get a bonus disc with some songs on there, maybe B-sides, or songs that they don't feel are good enough for the main album, or whatever they want. Just give people value, that is all they want.

That logic doesn't quite work according to economics. In order to maximize profit, you need to set the price at equilibrium levels in order to generate the most profit. While reducing the cost will definitely raise the Quantity you sell, it won't necessarily reflect with an increase in Profits. Of course all this goes deeper and deeper when you consider things like Marginal Products of Labor / Capital / etc. (micro and macroeconomics), but the gist of it is, prices are set at equilibrium levels and thus... maximizing profits for the company right now.

As for the bonus disc, the companies will incur substantial increase in expenditure / costs if all of the releases come with an extra CD. While it may not seem much when you consider the price of just one CD (especially in bulk), but when they're mass producing at their levels... more than likely it'll require a relative price hike for the CD as well.

Keep in mind, I'm all for your ideas as I'm a consumer myself, but from a company's point of view, giving more value usually means more costs and that's something that they will always try to avoid.

 

[Kadayi]

OMG Virus, the only man who posts like a bitch on speed but continually denies he has any internet access....

 

[Druckles]

when you buy a movie, it often has 10 minutes of movie previews, and other forced viewing. Disney is the worst when it comes to this. 10 years from now, I don't want to put in my "cars" movie, and be forced to watch previews of movies "coming to theatres soon!" when the movie came out so many years ago.

I don't mind if movies have room (without compressing the main feature movie) to fit some movie previews on there, sure no problem, but only if they are accessed through the main menu so I can watch them if I want, when I want.

Sometimes, if I'm bored, I'll watch the previews. but when I get home and am forced to watch 10 minutes of movies that I've already seen, it really peeves me.

Funny, because it's rare that a DVD has previews or trailers at the beginning. And guess what; you have a Fast Forward button if you're watching a VHS! And the wonders of modern technology: the SKIP button! Now, who would have figured that was there!

You have little reason to complain on this part, mostly because it has nothing to do with piracy, but also because it's entirely irrelevant.

I feel your point with the Half-Life 2 and Steam not working, but there is an offline mode. It works. If you're not connected to the internet, use dial-up, get connected, switch to offline mode, then dial-out. If you're not willing to do this, don't complain!

 

[Saturos]

Piracy sucks and so do pirates, but what sucks and blows, is when developers use anti-piracy methods like secuROM, which punishes non-pirates with reduced performance in games that use it.

 

[Evo]

Some good points are made but I would like to comment on one particular clause - I nitpick:

This misses the point a little. Sony's actions there weren't just "excessive"; it wasn't just a case of them being a little too overzealous. They were installing spyware on your computer without your knowledge. That's not just excessive. That's malicious. That's repulsive. And I'm fairly sure it's criminal.

You nitpicking bastard (who I love very much) why the nitpicking!

True, it is criminal etc. but I felt that getting to the focus of the article was better than ranting at Sony!

 

[VirusType2]

OMG Virus, the only man who posts like a bitch on speed but continually denies he has any internet access....

before the weekend, I hadn't posted in like a month. I have no internet service. I use internet cafes, but lately I have been able to receive a signal from my neighbor's house. =)

Funny, because it's rare that a DVD has previews or trailers at the beginning. And guess what; you have a Fast Forward button if you're watching a VHS! And the wonders of modern technology: the SKIP button! Now, who would have figured that was there!

You have little reason to complain on this part, mostly because it has nothing to do with piracy, but also because it's entirely irrelevant.

Also?

having nothing to do with piracy AND being entirely irrelevant? Isn't that the same thing?

It has everything to do with piracy.

My point is, I put in a DVD and have to wait several minutes for the multiple FBI warnings, the logos and the multiple previews. I guess the FBI warnings written on the face of the disc and the box just aren't enough.

Pirated movies don't have all that crap. Again, it's the people that pay for things that are forced to watch the piracy warnings, while the pirates don't have to!

It might not seem like a big deal, but I watch -- on average, 1 movie every day, and I'm sick to death of it. They are like advertisements. When I watch TV, I can't stand to sit through the commercials, so I stopped watching TV and started buying movies.



It really isn't rare. I just explained how I bought over 100 movies and checked out or rented hundreds more, and many of them have previews for other movies at the beginning. I think this makes me somewhat knowleged enough to say that. Can you say the same?

VHS? Are you serious? When I was talking about music did you think I was talking about 8-tracks and cassette tapes? I'm talking about DVD's and they ALWAYS have some material at the beginning that you CANNOT Skip. That is THE reason I'm complaining, because they force you to watch them.

Put your glasses on smart ass.

Do this for me right now: put in a DVD, and try to skip the FBI warnings and other miscellaneous crap they put on there. It won't let you.

I feel your point with the Half-Life 2 and Steam not working, but there is an offline mode. It works. If you're not connected to the internet, use dial-up, get connected, switch to offline mode, then dial-out. If you're not willing to do this, don't complain!

Should I jump through hoops too?

It doesn't work. Disconnect your internet, then try to launch episode 1 then come back and tell me how good it worked out for ya.

And you complain about me complaining.

I bought a game that doesn't work. I think that gives me a right to complain, especially right here on a steam forum. I activated it online and have a valid steam account.

Half-Life 2 works in offline mode without being connected to the internet so I don't see why they had to change it, because I expected no less, and ended up wasting my money.

 

[Druckles]

having nothing to do with piracy AND being entirely irrelevant? Isn't that the same thing?

No, I believe I meant it was irrelevant because it was a mute point.

Do this for me right now: put in a DVD, and try to skip the FBI warnings and other miscellaneous crap they put on there. It won't let you.

Done. No problem. Next trick?

It doesn't work. Disconnect your internet, then try to launch episode 1 then come back and tell me how good it worked out for ya.

Um, no, you're doing it in the wrong order. First you select offline mode, then you disconnect your internet. Voila. And yes, it does work.

And you complain about me complaining.

Quite a conundrum. However, you complain about things which you, yourself, can fix. I'm complaining about something which is entirely your fault :|

I bought a game that doesn't work. I think that gives me a right to complain, especially right here on a steam forum.

No, this isn't the Steam forum, this is a Half-Life 2 forum. Speak to Valve themselves if you want something fixed, we can't do anything about it. And you simply assume it doesn't work.

 

[Krynn72]

It doesn't work. Disconnect your internet, then try to launch episode 1 then come back and tell me how good it worked out for ya.

right now I'm going to the hospital after trying VirusType2's idea

Nobody listen to him! Dont do it!