Poland not getting enough recognition?

Raziaar said:
It wasn't about losing power, its about losing their ****ing countries, their livelyhood.

It was good vs evil in the case of hitler. Hitler had plans to nuke britain endlessly as a punishment to the people, until they were weak and surrendered. Thats what he was going to do when he finished developing his nukes, and its not a mystery or a question. Its a fact.
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mhm, I wonder whole africa or the Philepines felt after they where all colobies either amrican or british.The UDSSR also conquerd and swallloed alot of countries.stop watching History channel and read a book.
 
Spicy Tuna said:
hahahaah see, thats all you can do.why dont you just shut it instead of trying 2 insult me.big deal english isnt my first language.at least Im trying 2 make a point.and yes you did mention france "Normandy landing"
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Dude... don't you know anything about D-Day? Yes... the german army was spread thin in some areas, but not when it came to normandy. The freaking bastards were expecting an invasion, and had routed forces to areas they anticipated.

The reason the germans didn't do better, is because of the brilliant tactics and misinformation of the allied forces, which caused german forces to be routed to areas where the invasion wasn't taking place(where the germans thought it was going to)


he UDSSR also conquerd and swallloed alot of countries.stop watching History channel and read a book.
Click to expand...

Nobody here is denying the bad things that the russians did.

And whats up with your comments dude? You sound like the least educated here about the great war, and you keep insulting people saying not to watch history channel, or play games to get their information? Sheesh dude.

You should take your own advice... read a book. How old are you?
 
Raziaar said:
The reason the germans didn't do better, is because of the brilliant tactics and misinformation of the allied forces, which caused german forces to be routed to areas where the invasion wasn't taking place(where the germans thought it was going to)
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Can anyone say blow-up tanks?
 
no, it was because the best SS Panzer Division where in russia at the time.
man,you watch 2 much television.
 
Spicy Tuna said:
no, it was because the best SS Panzer Division where in russia at the time.
man,you watch 2 much television.
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DUde... get the **** out of this thread, you know nothing.

Operation Barbarossa was in mid 41... The germany army got crushed in russia since WELL before d-day, which took place mid 44.

Even if the forces never went to Russia, or not as many, the outcome would very likely be the same. No army will mass all their forces in one small area, especially not an offensive army like the german army during WWII. If they weren't in russia, they would be divided for africa, and Crete, and other areas of the war. Not all in normandy waiting for some invasion that didnt happen for years.

Don't ****ing kid yourself, you're not as intelligent as you think you are when it comes to this subject. You're naive, and your knowledge is frankly lacking. Pray tell, if you're so wise, what books do you read on the subject?
 
Spicy Tuna: Your entire post history is a joke. You claim to live in the US and yet your grammar and your spelling is so bad it's next to impossible to understand what you're trying to say. As soon are some sane person is trying to disprove your madness you tell them to leave the thread or stop watching TV (?). I'm suprised you weren't banned for your revisionist views, it sure would've made this thread and many other more enjoyable to read and take part of.
 
Alexferris said:
The Americans/Brits *let* the Russians take Berlin. If Germany hadn't invaded Russia, we would have just fought them on different ground, and most likely, won.

Any of these three events would have led to the defeat of Germany:

• Normandy landing
• Allied victories in Italy / Africa
• Stalingrad

None were "more important".

Poland fought bravely in WW2. The end.
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Your very wrong.

I belive there was 12times many German Troops fighting the Soviets than the western allies, I will try and find a source for that though.
 
Quite. Ultimatly in 1941 when the Germans failed to capture Moscow before the Russian winter was what lost the war for them. After that they were fighting a battle of attrition that they could not hope to win.

However, It is widly believed that if German forces had not been moved into the Balkans, Greece and North Africa to assist the incompetent Italians, and if Operation Sealion had been put into action and had been a sucess (although from the original battle plans and forces from both sides had in place it is believed that the German forces would't make it out of Kent and would have been Smashed between the British army pushing them back and the Royal Navy which would have cut off their retreat) so they would no longer have had to be used to guard the French Coast against Allied raids and they had total air superiority over europe so they could have moved the Luftwaffe out of air defence duties in western Europe and had been used in the invasion of the USSR then Moscow may well have fallen.

We have to remember that in '41 the German forces were split all over the place, If they had taken complete control of Europe before hand and had sorted out North Africa then they could have used the whole of their forces to smash the Soveit armed forces.

So, If the USSR had been the only battle frount they German forces had been fighting on then they may well have been victorius. However, as they were occupied with fighting in other areas they were not.

Also, many of the campagins that people dismiss as side shows later in the war were in fact crucial. For example the Italian campagian. The fact that it forced the Germans to redeploy their western forces ment that inorder to keep France under control they had to either withdraw troops from the Eastern Frount or use green troops who could not be relied upon. This allowed the invasion of Normandy to take place and the Russians to put even more pressure on the already stretched Eastern armies.
 
the decisive battle of WWII was Kursk, not the normandy or Africa
Italy was a total failure for the western allies even.without russia,I wouldnt have been born.snd you would be speaking german.

The Monkey,you can go screw youself,just because I have a differnt view then you doenst mean you can just ban me.now thats fascism
 
I still think If Germany didn't attack anyone but Russia it still would have lost.
Though all I know about the war is gathered from soviet propaganda and such...
 
Thats true Russia did play a big roll,If Hitle didnt go after the oil fields and rushed 2 Moscow they might have won,the smartest would have been to leave russia alone and go to thwe UK,it would have been a few months and the UK would have been crushed,Hitler after the invasion of Greece and the loss of elite para troopers did not want 2 risk that.



no offense againt the brits btw,I just think that the UK wouldn have lasted very long, thats all.
 
Spicy Tuna said:
the decisive battle of WWII was Kursk, not the normandy or Africa
Italy was a total failure for the western allies even.without russia,I wouldnt have been born.snd you would be speaking german.

The Monkey,you can go screw youself,just because I have a differnt view then you doenst mean you can just ban me.now thats fascism
Click to expand...

I have to side with The Monkey. I agree with Freedom of Speech, but Holocaust Denial, in my opinion, is race-hate incitement. And due to my background, I find Holocaust Denial really disgusting, on the basest of levels. Past that of the standard HATEHATEHATE, but deep-seated loathing. Real hate, not just generic anger.

So yeah, Lemonking, you should be banned anyways.

-Angry Lawyer
 
Spicy Tuna said:
the decisive battle of WWII was Kursk, not the normandy or Africa
Italy was a total failure for the western allies even.without russia,I wouldnt have been born.snd you would be speaking german.

The Monkey,you can go screw youself,just because I have a differnt view then you doenst mean you can just ban me.now thats fascism
Click to expand...

Total Faliure ay? lets see... It forces the Germans to commit whats left of their reserves and more besides to defend the Italian Peninsula. It knocks Italy out of the war (OK, they were rubbish to start with but thats not the point). It provides valuble lessons that make the D-Day landings go much better than they would have (even if the Americans still managed to screw up Omaha).

Not really a total waste is it?

Without doubt the big battles of the Eastern frount were critical, and Stalingrad was the turning point, not Kursk. That was another nail in the coffin, and crushed the final hopes of a facist victory in the east.

Also, the bombing campagins of the western allies are another major factor to consider. Without them the Germans still would not have been able to mass divisions of Russia (not due to their manufacturing capacity, but rather the complexity of the German designs) but they would have had more and better equipment and may have been able to gain air superiority over the USSR and so the losses amoungst the German tank divisons would have been much lower, as one of the biggest killers that they faced were low flying Soviet attack aircraft.

not to mention the weapons and supplies that the western allies supplied to the USSR that proved vital.
 
Spicy Tuna said:
no offense againt the brits btw,I just think that the UK wouldn have lasted very long, thats all.
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Wargames conducted after the war using the Battle plans and forces that each side was prepareing for invasion and with Generals from both nations show that that is a load of popy-cock! (and yes, these plans do include the continued bombing of RAF airfeilds, rather than the switch to cities).

At most the Germans would have got 90,000 men into Britan, but they would have been without many of the weapons that they had relied on during the Blitzkrieg campaigns against Poland, France, Holland, Norway, etc... Such as Panzers. They would have been facing 2 British tank divisions, many more infantry, etc divisions, the full might of the Royal Navy, which was still the most powerful in Europe and gurreilla resistance from specialy trained British troops.

They, according to the wargames which were conducted with the greatest of historical accuracy, wouldn't have even pushed north of Kent (the county where the inital landings were to be made) and would have been cut off and crushed within at the most 2 weeks. The German casualties would probubly have been higher, but the wargames did not use the plans to gas the invasion beaches as this would have breached international law, although this plan was prepared and had Churchill's full backing.
 
2 bad Angry Lawyer it just so happens I dont care If about your jewish background nor your feelings torwards me . I never called for slaughter of jews or anything even close 2 that.
Bob,when the war was over the allies where still in italy,they couldnt even move forward.
 
Spicy Tuna said:
Bob,when the war was over the allies where still in italy,they couldnt even move forward.
Click to expand...

Thats not the point. Please take your head out of your behind and listen. It diverted their forces. it didnt matter that the allies couldnt move forward in that theature, it forced the Germans to commit troops that were badly needed elswere to stoping the allies moving up the peninsula and invading from the south.

This ment that the Russians and, when they landed, the troops in France, had a much easier time than they would have.
 
Lemonking said:
big deal english isnt my first language.
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I manage to write with perfect punctuation and spelling in my German class. It really ain't that hard.

Lemonking said:
the decisive battle of WWII was Kursk, not the normandy or Africa
Italy was a total failure for the western allies even.without russia,I wouldnt have been born.snd you would be speaking german.#
Click to expand...
1. Stalingrad was more important than Kursk as has already been noted.
There were also more than just one turning point. Africa was certainly one of them, I think. In fact, without sucess in Africa, the nazis might have won the war in Russia - without Mussolini calling for help Operation Barbarossa would not have been delayed and might actually have succeeded before the onsent of the worst of the Russian winter.
3. Italy wasn't a 'total failure' because it tied up the Germans and allowed the testing of tactics (most notably US airborne tactics I think?) and stuff that would be very useful come D-Day.
4. The UK might have survived a German invasion (I find those wargame results quite surprising :O ) but even then, nobody would be speaking German because nobody stops speaking their own language within 60 years just because they've been occupied.

Solaris said:
I still think If Germany didn't attack anyone but Russia it still would have lost.
Though all I know about the war is gathered from soviet propaganda and such...
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Unlikely. If Germany had only attacked Russia, they probably would have won - even with the three-pronged attack.

Raziaar said:
It was good vs evil in the case of hitler. Hitler had plans to nuke britain endlessly as a punishment to the people, until they were weak and surrendered. Thats what he was going to do when he finished developing his nukes, and its not a mystery or a question. Its a fact.
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Yes, but he only did that towards the end of the war - 'revenge weapon' is aptly named. Originally he wanted a peace with Britain, so it's wrong to say that Britain declared war because their very survival was at stake.

Lemonking said:
edit:here you go again,all you do is flame,why dont leave the thread its obvious you dont know jack shit.
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'All you do is flame.' Sehr heuchlerisch, Herr Zitrone.
 
Angry Lawyer said:
I'm not Jewish, just half-Polish. And I still hate you.

-Angry Lawyer
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You hate everyone. :p
 
Lemonking's views aren't revisionist, they're just plain offensive.

If you persist in your frankley retarded refution of established historical fact I will ban you. There are two main reasons why someone would deny the holocaust:

1) They genuinely believe it didn't happen (god know why, perhaps they're the child of David Irving)
2) They wish to be offensive, plain and simple
 
I just wanted to say, as horrible as WWII was, isn't it funny how it brought us all together? We were all one, we were allies, friends even....I don't know why I'm bringing this up exactly, but looking at the state of the world today and our "alliances" with other countries, it saddens me that we're not very good "friends" anymore.
 
Kudos to all involved on the allied side in the war, especially the Poles, ANZACS (see Kokoda Trail campaign), all resistance movements, RAF, etc etc etc. They had balls of steel.

I found a funny american WWII propaganda poster, but I cant work out how to put it in
 
kirovman said:
Didn't France get invaded via neutral Belgium? As per usual.

Poland played no small part in the war - indeed, the invasion of it was the reason the UK and France declared war on Germany.
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Indeed.

WWI:
BE: "Don't use our country as a backdoor plz"
GE: "kk"
The next morning...
BE: "Piss."

WWII:
BE: "Don't use our country to invade France plz"
GE: "kk"
The next morning...
BE: "Dammit not agen"
 
gick said:
Kudos to all involved on the allied side in the war, especially the Poles, ANZACS (see Kokoda Trail campaign), all resistance movements, RAF, etc etc etc. They had balls of steel.

I found a funny american WWII propaganda poster, but I cant work out how to put it in
Click to expand...
"This is the Russian. He is your FRIEND. He fights for Freedom!"

that poster? :p

russianpropposter.jpg

MPW00292.jpg

MPW00294.jpg

MPW00293.jpg


I can't find any more.

edit: LOL at Canadian hat

edit2: Here's more

http://image.mplib.org/wp/MPW00291.jpg
http://image.mplib.org/wp/MPW00290.jpg
http://image.mplib.org/wp/MPW00289.jpg

This is kind of funny considering the Indian wars about half a decade before WWII

http://image.mplib.org/wp/MPW00279.jpg
But at least its intentions are good.
 
ComradeBadger said:
Lemonking's views aren't revisionist, they're just plain offensive.

If you persist in your frankley retarded refution of established historical fact I will ban you. There are two main reasons why someone would deny the holocaust:

1) They genuinely believe it didn't happen (god know why, perhaps they're the child of David Irving)
2) They wish to be offensive, plain and simple
Click to expand...


numero uno:it its a blatant over exaggeration of the truth.
numero dos:I didnt even talk about the the Holecaust in this thread.
 
RakuraiTenjin said:
edit: LOL at Canadian hat
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that's the Queen's Own Rifles of Canada ..they've been around since the mid 1800's ..they repelled an american invasion in 1866 and have been involved in every war since then most recently in afghanistan
 
CptStern said:
that's the Queen's Own Rifles of Canada ..they've been around since the mid 1800's ..they repelled an american invasion in 1866 and have been involved in every war since then most recently in afghanistan
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I'm sure the soldiers are great the hats just look rediculous.

I also think the US army's switch from the nice hats (EG: Marines still have them, the nice hats) to rediculous berets was silly looking. Luckily they're moving back to hats with the new BDUs.
 
DeusExMachina said:
We're getting new BDUs?
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Have had for about a year now. They look like shit in a room but they work VERY well cammo wise. That digital stuff dunno the specifics.

Recruiters at school were wearing them one day and it looks HORRID, like spilled milk or something, but I saw pics in action in the field in desert and grass and its almost like a chameleon.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/acu-pic04.jpg

They don't have body armor that matches the cammo yet but it's not too big of an issue yet (theyre making them) because if youre in desert just wear desert armor, forest/jungle wear green armor over it

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/acu-pic09.jpg

See how when in the right environment is gets chameleon like? SAME material, just chameleoned out
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/acu-pic03.jpg
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/acu-pic01.jpg
 
The most powerful and effective army in the war was Germany's army. No other army was as capable as theirs.
 
What I really hate is overexaggeration. For example, I live in Australia, and all you ever hear about are the Anzacs. There are whole history courses dedicated to there achievements and honouring Australias contribution to the war. They make it look like there never ever was any other war in the whole of history.

Don't get me wrong, in no way am I downplaying the contribution of the Anzacs, however, I think its insulting, how they distort the signficance of what happened and blow it out of proportion. Pride and honour shouldnt be mixed with historical facts and events. It only serves to distort the truth.
 
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