Poll on Abortion

[RakuraiTenjin]

No..no it's not.

Yes, yes it is.

wow... the results of this poll makes me very happy. im so happy to see so much pro-choice people here. And dont get confused, some people claim to be "pro-life" when we all know that they are just anti-choice.

I cannot fathom anyone who would oppose abortion just to spite the decision of it. Anyone concerned about it is concerned about the baby who is going to be killed.

If they wanted to control, wouldn't they force abstinence? And abstinence is good in my opinion, but that's up to you because THAT only affects you if you've taken all the necessary steps safety wise.

 

[johnmedz]

Yes, yes it is.


I cannot fathom anyone who would oppose abortion just to spite the decision of it. Anyone concerned about it is concerned about the baby who is going to be killed.

If they wanted to control, wouldn't they force abstinence? And abstinence is good in my opinion, but that's up to you because THAT only affects you if you've taken all the necessary steps safety wise.

exactly. people shouldnt feel that they can go get an abortion whenever. If they used condoms or birth control, or if its a really rare situation where the baby cannot be taken care of, they should be allowed to have an abortion. that baby belongs to those people. girls egg + guys sperm = girl and guys baby. NOT THE GOVERNMENTS.

edit: i forgot i was preaching to the choir

 

[Calanen]

wow... the results of this poll makes me very happy. im so happy to see so much pro-choice people here. And dont get confused, some people claim to be "pro-life" when we all know that they are just anti-choice.
Reply With Quote

Maybe you are just pro-death?

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

exactly. people shouldnt feel that they can go get an abortion whenever. If they used condoms or birth control, or if its a really rare situation where the baby cannot be taken care of, they should be allowed to have an abortion. that baby belongs to those people. girls egg + guys sperm = girl and guys baby. NOT THE GOVERNMENTS.

edit: i forgot i was preaching to the choir

By that logic if someone's kid is annoying them and they get sick of it, they can kill it. After all, it's theirs.

If they don't want the child, can't take care of it, etc, it is to be adopted, not KILLED.

 

[GhostFox]

wow... the results of this poll makes me very happy. im so happy to see so much pro-choice people here. And dont get confused, some people claim to be "pro-life" when we all know that they are just anti-choice.

You see nothing wrong with killing your unwanted children?

 

[johnmedz]

You see nothing wrong with killing your unwanted children?

well, thanks for the flame first of all. secondly, i never said anything along those lines. I think it is great that people realize that everybody has a choice to what they do with their own child. If it came down to it, i dont think i would encourage a girl to get an abortion if i got her pregnant, those are my moral values. I will not, however, impose my values onto another person and make their decisions. Thats for them to do. Maybe those people do not have moral or religious regulations against abortion. why should they not be allowed to do what they want with their own child?

if u read my posts earlier, i said that it is important for people to use protection and not just to have an abortion whenever they want. but ultimately, what people do on their own can only be controlled so much

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

why should they not be allowed to do what they want with their own child?

Like I said before, just because it's their child doesn't mean they can kill it.

 

[GhostFox]

well, thanks for the flame first of all.

How is a simple question a flame?

why should they not be allowed to do what they want with their own child?

So your answer really is "yes, if someone wants to kill their child, it is their right." Again you are entitled to your opinion, I am just trying to get it straight.

 

[Blakeb155]

It doesn't matter how long she hasn't been pregnant for, the moment the sperm fertilises the ovum that being has a future, a whole life set before him/she. Terminating it is just like a murder, IMO.

 

[johnmedz]

It doesn't matter how long she hasn't been pregnant for, the moment the sperm fertilises the ovum that being has a future, a whole life set before him/she. Terminating it is just like a murder, IMO.

exactly. thats your opinion. but it may not be the opinion of the mother who is having the child.

i dont think u have the right to kill a child even if its your own, but u have the right to see a doctor about getting an abortion. if the doctors see's it unfit, he can recommend adoption as another option.

 

[OCybrManO]

IMO, the discussion comes down to one point: If you kill something that cannot feel, see, think, hear, breathe, etc... basically, exhibits no signs of being a living human, is it murder? In my opinion, a "living" lump of cells with human DNA does not a human make. Should people that having miscarriages or still births be charged with involuntary manslaughter because it had a "potential future"? At conception an embryo is about as much a human as a tumor. They both start as a few cells and multiply into larger lumps of cells. At that point, neither of them has a brain... neither even remotely resembles a human. I say the turning point is when the fetus has a developed brain that is actually active. When it can first process input... when it can start to feel... when it can potentially be thinking... that's when I think abortion should stop being legal.

IMO, if you slaughter cows/chickens/etc by the billions for food when there are plenty of healthy alternatives just because you like they way they taste, support the death penalty because jails can't handle enough criminals, or think starting wars is the best way to peace... and still claim you believe in the sanctity of life you should rethink your views on all of the above.

 

[Calanen]

MO, the discussion comes down to one point: If you kill something that cannot feel, see, think, hear, breathe, etc... basically, exhibits no signs of being a living human, is it murder? In my opinion, a "living" lump of cells with human DNA does not a human make.

Thats the spin - but not the truth. I've held off doing it, but I can probably put a few links up to show you what abortions are like - and it aint just clipping a lump of cells. Don't believe me? Check it out for yourself. The whole rationalisation of what the procedure is, killling an unborn baby, is cleaned away with euphemisms - its just a bunch of cells. Maybe when she takes RU486 no later than 3 days after pregnancy it might be. But - not when many of these abortions take place. Its a living being - and its killed. Not a lump of cells.

But I have already said I would not ban it, and the reasons why. But lets deal with the facts - and not the euphemisms.

 

[MarcoPollo]

Like I said before, just because it's their child doesn't mean they can kill it.

Quoted for emphasis!

 

[OCybrManO]

I'm studying to be a psychiatrist (basically, a psychologist with medical training), my mother was a registered nurse through my entire life, my mother went back to medical school to become a diagnostic medical sonographer, my uncle works in a hospital, I watch a lot of informative television shows about medical procedures, I read medical journals, I have seen the actual procedures, etc... I think I know what the baby looks like during prenatal development and what an abortion is like. Do you have any experience?

What I was saying is that I think abortion should be legal but that it should either take place very early during the pregnancy or not at all.

EDIT: Specifically, I think the end of the first trimester (IIRC, the generally accepted time amongst pro-choice supporters) is too late... ideally it shouldn't go past 6 weeks (most babies wouldn't be developed to the point I talked about at that point but I went back a bit to cover the ones that develop a bit faster) in cases where the mother isn't in any physical danger. I haven't thought about an exact time period but before that point there isn't any movement (not even reflexive), the nervous system is still developing, there isn't detectable brain activity, etc.

If you're going to have sex without wanting a child it still gives you enough time to find out if you are pregnant and consult a doctor. For example, a blood test can detect it as soon as 7 days after conception and home tests can detect it about two weeks after conception... leaving a window of nearly a month.

 

[Blakeb155]

Adoption is the only option IMO for a mother who doesn't want there child, Abortion is the same as murder, except ones still in thw womb. If it's the mothers choice that silly, because that also means that the parents can decide to kill the child when he/she is seven for instance. Same thing except ones more developed.

 

[Raziaar]

I'd say yes... but... the dumb bitch should have thought about all this before she let herself have sex without protection. At the very least, she could have gotten checkups if she was worried, to get the earliest possible detection for pregnancy to abort it, rather than waiting it out until a later stage.

If the development stage is just a couple days past conception though... I think she should simply raise the child... experience the birthing process.. and give the child up for adoption, or not... depending on how she feels about the child after its in her arms.

 

[KoreBolteR]

I'd say yes... but... the dumb bitch should have thought about all this before she let herself have sex without protection. At the very least, she could have gotten checkups if she was worried, to get the earliest possible detection for pregnancy to abort it, rather than waiting it out until a later stage.

If the development stage is just a couple days past conception though... I think she should simply raise the child... experience the birthing process.. and give the child up for adoption, or not... depending on how she feels about the child after its in her arms.

thats basically what i was just about to say. :upstare:

 

[SupremePain]

How many of you 'No' voters are fundamentalist Americans? Uh i mean, Christians. (Holy shit, im so gonna get flamed for this but yeah, i said it)

 

[Calanen]

How many of you 'No' voters are fundamentalist Americans? Uh i mean, Christians. (Holy shit, im so gonna get flamed for this but yeah, i said it)

How many of you Yes voters are.....well u know the stereotypes. But lots of people come to their conclusions to different reasons. No need to be mean to people just because they are american and believe in a religion. Btw - I am neither.

 

[Blakeb155]

How many of you 'No' voters are fundamentalist Americans? Uh i mean, Christians. (Holy shit, im so gonna get flamed for this but yeah, i said it)

IMO, answering yes in this poll is the same as voting yes to the question "Do you agree with murder?" And yes I am a Christian.

 

[SupremePain]

How many of you Yes voters are.....well u know the stereotypes. But lots of people come to their conclusions to different reasons. No need to be mean to people just because they are american and believe in a religion. Btw - I am neither.

Yeah, well i was trying to provoke a bit, sorry. But really, Americans in general is greatly influenced by religion. About 70% of American citizens go to church every Sunday. But back on topic:

I feel that it is importent to grasp this subject scientificly, because that the only solution to the ethic and morale dillemas. Personaly i think abortion is okay. But i really don't see why someone would WANT to carry a unwanted baby and then wait till the 8'th month to get a adoption. So basicly that entire arguement is entirely irrelavant.

 

[ComradeBadger]

I wonder how many of you know people who have actually had abortions, and their reasons for doing so?

 

[Blakeb155]

The answer to all this is simple. Preferrably wait to your married t have sex and want a baby, but if you don't, Just be very careful. And if an accident happens (they usually do) just live with it.

 

[Raziaar]

If life throws you a few lemons... make lemonade. Don't toss them away!

 

[KoreBolteR]

but the UK is one of the Eu's most religious and cultered countries.

with loads of people from every corner of the world living here.

back to topic.

i think abortion should be legal.

 

[The Monkey]

Adoption is often the best way, beacause then you can bring joy to couples who can't get babies, and it's not always you can find people who want adopt the baby.And the whole birth progress is very painful, and maybe the mother fells that she is going trough it in vain, since she wont keep the baby anyway. The reason that I don't consider a pre-born child younger than 6 months (I've thought about it) alive is that it has no feelings, no sences (except very basic ones), and no awereness. A baby can ruin a woman's life, while an abortion will not ruin ruin any life at this stage.

 

[Blakeb155]

Adoption is often the best way, beacause then you can bring joy to couples who can't get babies, and it's not always you can find people who want adopt the baby.And the whole birth progress is very painful, and maybe the mother fells that she is going trough it in vain, since she wont keep the baby anyway. The reason that I don't consider a pre-born child younger than 6 months (I've thought about it) alive is that it has no feelings, no sences (except very basic ones), and no awereness. A baby can ruin a woman's life, while an abortion will not ruin ruin any life at this stage.

It won't ruin a life at that stage, but it will remove a life. That being will not get the chance at a life.

 

[Absinthe]

It won't ruin a life at that stage, but it will remove a life. That being will not get the chance at a life.

So all we're doing is removing potential?

I don't see the issue.

 

[Blakeb155]

So all we're doing is removing potential?

I don't see the issue.

This is extremely unlikely, but think about. Pretend the person's potential is to bring world peace or end a war. Who are we to decide that that person doesn't deserve to get a chance at life?

 

[Raziaar]

This is extremely unlikely, but think about. Pretend the person's potential is to bring world peace or end a war. Who are we to decide that that person doesn't deserve to live?

Or perhaps the inventor of some yet unforseen incredible, life changing advancement in video gaming that could benefit us all. You never know.

Hey, it could even be the next gabe newell!

 

[Absinthe]

This is extremely unlikely, but think about. Pretend the person's potential is to bring world peace or end a war. Who are we to decide that that person doesn't deserve to get a chance at life?

Its potential could also consist of being the next Hitler.

But you can't make these kinds of decisions based off that kind of speculation.

 

[Blakeb155]

Its potential could also consist of being the next Hitler.

But you can't make these kinds of decisions based off that kind of speculation.

Exactly, we don't have the knowledge to make the decision to take a life or prevent someone from having a life.

 

[Absinthe]

Exactly, we don't have the knowledge to make the decision to take a life or prevent someone from having a life.

But this is just potential. It is not a life. It just has the ability to become one. It's not murder to prevent a life that doesn't exist yet.

Then again, this depends on what you consider to be alive. And that's why abortion debates tend to run around in circles. :\

 

[The Monkey]

It won't ruin a life at that stage, but it will remove a life. That being will not get the chance at a life.

You can't remove something that has never existed. And at this stage the baby is still a part of the woman's body, and it's hers to do what she wants with it.

 

[KoreBolteR]

You can't remove something that has never existed. And at this stage the baby is still a part of the woman's body, and it's hers to do what she wants with it.

quite right .

what if the woman committed suicide because she was pregnant, and that she didnt want the baby, and there was no option to have an abortion?.

trust me, banning abortions is the wrong way to do it.

 

[qckbeam]

I wonder how many of you know people who have actually had abortions, and their reasons for doing so?

I know a girl who had an abortion. She had sex at a party and decided she simply didn't want to deal with having to raise a child. Raising a child at her age (early twenties) surely would have been difficult. I’m certain giving the baby up for adoption would have been a difficult choice to make as well. But you know what? She decided to have unprotected sex knowing full well what the outcome of that could, and very likely would, end up being. She put herself into this position. She simply didn't want to deal with the consequences of her actions. So she had an abortion. Shirking off responsibilities or weaseling out of situations seems to be a popular trend in society today. Nobody wants to stand up and say "I did this, and I'll suffer the consequences for it". Aborting a pregnancy simply because you don’t want to go through all the trouble of raising the child or the pain of giving birth is a copout, and a terrible copout at that. Because no matter how you may try to compare a fetus to a cluster of dried up skin cells which you scratch off and kill each day, a healthy fetus, if left alone, will grow into a fully functional human being. You’d better have a damn good reason for wanting to snuff one out of existence; one better than “It’s going to hurt” or “It’ll ruin my social life”.

How many of you 'No' voters are fundamentalist Americans? Uh i mean, Christians. (Holy shit, im so gonna get flamed for this but yeah, i said it)

I voted no and I'm not a Christian. I'm not a member of any religion. I just hold human life in high esteem.

 

[jondy]

I say we go down the 'hamster' road, and eat the little ****ers.

But seriously, I'm quite divided on the issue. Legally, any woman should really have the right to an abortion, but the moral issues involved with each unwanted pregnancy are very individual, and I don't think any of you should be slapping generalisations on issues with such a diverse range of moral situations as this.

Plus, none of you are girls.

Apart from you, Bliink did you vote?

 

[el Chi]

This is extremely unlikely, but think about. Pretend the person's potential is to bring world peace or end a war. Who are we to decide that that person doesn't deserve to get a chance at life?

What about the millions upon millions of sperm? Maybe some of them had the potential to grow into a person who'd cure cancer?

Banning abortions would only result in back-alley abortions that could kill the mother as well as the baby. Not to want to be too blunt about it, but there's a big difference between a medical procedure and a coat hanger.

I wonder how many of you know people who have actually had abortions, and their reasons for doing so?

As I think I already said, a friend of mine had an abortion. She was in a serious long-term relationship at the time, so she wasn't the dizzy slut that pro-life people seem to portray people who get abortions as. As a matter of fact, they'd tried for a baby before, but she'd had a miscarriage. I think she felt that actually she wasn't ready and perhaps a little traumatised by the previous pregnancy. How extremely unreasonable of her.

Making people who are against it pay isnt fair. Lets shrug our consequences off onto somebody else, its the liberal way!

Don't turn this into another "conservatives are so superior to liberals" bitching piece of bollocks. Don't act so blindly hypocritical as to overlook the FACT that the right are just as keen on ignoring responsibility and repercussions.
I can't f*cking stand this sometimes.

 

[AzzMan]

I wonder how many of you know people who have actually had abortions, and their reasons for doing so?

I've had a friend who had to have one....

 

[kmack]

The US Constitution says abortion is okay in that situation, so frankly, who cares what we think. Most of us are men anyways, I don't think it's our place to say anything as we have NO comprehension of what a pregnant woman goes through biologically. Also every one of us lives a life of comforts, people who don't have expensive computers and the leisure time to game and participate in forums live a life that they may not be so anxious to share with a new being.