Poll: Why was the US attacked on 9/11?

[GhostFox]

Please feel free to state your reasons for your vote. Please limit your flaming.

 

[Tr0n]

Asking people to limit their flaming on a topic like this is asking a alcoholic to stop drinking.

It's a hard thing to do.

 

[GhostFox]

As a followup, if you believe that the US actions were the cause for 9/11, does that make you feel safe yourself from terrorism (if living outside of the US).

 

[MuToiD_MaN]

Because the U.S. gives the air of wanting to help other countries, but in reality, the actions are just exploitations in the name of making a buck off 'em.

That and religious fanaticism/fundamentalism, every religion's got them, but I think the first reason is more important.

/Here's to this thread not blowing up in our faces

 

[Tr0n]

Bah...heres truth.

You need realplayer.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/november2004/121104powerofnightmares.htm

 

[burner69]

Other:

OBL and his few friends, after a failed attempt to get Middle Eastern countries to take to their extreme form of the Muslim religion, decided that they needed to show that they were powerful and strong. (I think Tr0n's nodding his head here). Due to American hatred rife in the area because of it's foreign policy and what perhaps was a percieved expansion (which is now seeming to become a real expansion) people celebrated seeing the US attacked. OBL got noticed.

Of course these particular fanatics (key word) didn't like the US because they were non Muslim, but that would not have caused 9/11 alone, far from it. Some people after attention saw a target that would be celebrated when attacked. They attacked.

Now with the US fulfilling every last idea people in Iraq and Afghan held of them, by invading, killing thousands of innocents, taking resources, subverting their religion, and taking power their (percieved or otherwise) we now have, rather than a few extremeists, two countries who DO NOT LIKE THE US, or indeed the coalition as a whole. So for your second question, do I feel safer, no - but I don't feel unsafe. Terrorism is rare enough for me not to worry about it. I'm more likely to die taking pills in a night club, and more likely to be hit by a bus than die taking pills in a nightclub etc.

And yes, I hope this thread does not sink into a flame war. Should be interesting to see the response.

Btw, you missed out; "Because the Middle East is burning with jealousy for the US" seriously :thumbs:

 

[No Limit]

Because the U.S. gives the air of wanting to help other countries, but in reality, the actions are just exploitations in the name of making a buck off 'em.

That and religious fanaticism/fundamentalism, every religion's got them, but I think the first reason is more important.

/Here's to this thread not blowing up in our faces

Show me an example of the US using military action for financial gain; leave out Iraq and oil please as that is debatable and it will just turn this in to a thread about the Iraq war.

 

[CptStern]

all of the above ...btw this poll is a little too rigid ..should have just left it as a write in ...you're formulating people's answers based on those 4 choices

anyways ..9/11 happened because the US bombed training camps in afghanistan (in retaliation for the bombing of the USS cole) where hundreds of radicals including their families were wiped out ...9/11 was payback

btw I'm tired of this particular subject ...look at my post count ...the majority of my posts are in political threads ..we've beaten this dead horse so often that there's no horse left to beat

 

[The Monkey]

Mainly beacouse those terrorists didn't like that US's support od Israel, but also beacouse it's the world's only superpower, and it's a western one.

 

[GhostFox]

you're formulating people's answers based on those 4 choices

I took the 4 most common reasons I have seen, and left a write in. I don't mind if other gets all the votes. I don't think it will, but you needed some options to choose from. If it was all write-ins people would vote 50 different ways all basically meaning the same thing.

 

[CptStern]

true but it's overly simplified ..if you asked osama I'm sure he'd have more than one reason

 

[GhostFox]

anyways ..9/11 happened because the US bombed training camps in afghanistan (in retaliation for the bombing of the USS cole) where hundreds of radicals including their families were wiped out ...9/11 was payback

OK, so for that reason do you feel safe living in Canada from terrorists?

 

[CptStern]

up until 9/11 yes, yes I did ..I remember the first words I said after the second plane hit ..."oh my god we're headed for ww3" ..I knew that america's response would have far more reaching and lasting reprecussions than the attack itself ..hey guess what? I was right

btw, you tell me ...you claim to be amer ...er canadian ..so you should know how safe canadians feel

 

[GhostFox]

So you think that the terrorist threat in Canada is simply from US actions?

 

[jondy]

OK, so for that reason do you feel safe living in Canada from terrorists?

Yeah, that's exactly it.

 

[CptStern]

what terrorist threat in canada? name one terrorist event EVER on canadian soil that wasnt committed by a canadian?

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Other: all of the above.

Although it was mostly retaliatory action against US foreign policy, since a world-wide muslim state is more of a long-term goal. (As in a thousand years from now.)

 

[CptStern]

Other: all of the above.

Although it was mostly retaliatory action against US foreign policy, since a world-wide muslim state is more of a long-term goal. (As in a thousand years from now.)

hey Mecha you're canadian ..did you feel the terrorist threat pre, and post 9/11?

 

[GhostFox]

I feel less safe living in Canada then living in the US. The US has done much to make their security much tighter. In Canada little or nothing has been done. Canada was in the top 5 countries that Al-Qaeda released as their top targets before 9/11. I believe it is only a matter of when, not if, Canada gets attacked. Which is why the RCMP have started equipping their cruisers with geiger counters in major cities. I know someone high up in airport security. He says that ever since 9/11, everyone has been waiting for the other shoe to drop on Canada. This worries me. I think the attack would be more likely in T.O. or Ottawa, but what if Winnipeg is the easier target? I won't ever feel completely safe from terrorism until extremists are stamped out.

 

[Bodacious]

anyways ..9/11 happened because the US bombed training camps in afghanistan (in retaliation for the bombing of the USS cole) where hundreds of radicals including their families were wiped out ...9/11 was payback

I am not denying 9/11 was payback, but I am pretty sure it was planned long before the USS Cole was bombed.

 

[CptStern]

I feel less safe living in Canada then living in the US. The US has done much to make their security much tighter. In Canada little or nothing has been done. Canada was in the top 5 countries that Al-Qaeda released as their top targets before 9/11. I believe it is only a matter of when, not if, Canada gets attacked. Which is why the RCMP have started equipping their cruisers with geiger counters in major cities. I know someone high up in airport security. He says that ever since 9/11, everyone has been waiting for the other shoe to drop on Canada. This worries me. I think the attack would be more likely in T.O. or Ottawa, but what if Winnipeg is the easier target? I won't ever feel completely safe from terrorism until extremists are stamped out.

then you'll never feel safe ...iraq and the war on terror is a terrorist recruitment feeding frenzy ..the US stirred up not just a bee's hive but a whole field worth of bee hives ..really I dont think even the neo-cons who planned all this knew how bad it would be

btw canada will probably be a staging ground for the next attack but I doubt they'll attack it directly ..too much resources for too little a bang

 

[Mechagodzilla]

hey Mecha you're canadian ..did you feel the terrorist threat pre, and post 9/11?

Not really, to be honest. Although such a threat exists, and will likely always exist, the US is such a higher priority target that Canada's unlikely to be hit until later on in that thousand year timeline I mentioned.

Since basically all recent attacks have been retaliatory, and Canada hasn't really done anything worthy of retaliation yet.

 

[GhostFox]

name one terrorist event EVER on canadian soil that wasnt committed by a canadian?

How many sucessful terrorists attacks were carried out by Al-Qaeda on US soil before 9/11? Your proof of safety is that no one has suceeded yet? You really can't believe that.

 

[CptStern]

How many sucessful terrorists attacks were carried out by Al-Qaeda on US soil before 9/11? Your proof of safety is that no one has suceeded yet? You really can't believe that.

wtc ...for one. Anyways it's not really all that comparable because the US has been attacked on many occasions. But lets not divert the question ...answer it please


"Your proof of safety is that no one has suceeded yet"


yes but I can say the same about your proof:

"Your proof of not being safe is that it's happened in other countries"


"You really can't believe that"

 

[Mechagodzilla]

How many sucessful terrorists attacks were carried out by Al-Qaeda on US soil before 9/11?

At least one (the 1993 WTC bombing). Although it wasn't totally successful because it caused very few casualties.

Plus, outside of US soil, embassies and US troops were attacked regularly. Not so with Canada.

Your proof of safety is that no one has suceeded yet? You really can't believe that.

More specifically then, how many attempted Al-Qaeda attacks have there been?

 

[GhostFox]

btw canada will probably be a staging ground for the next attack but I doubt they'll attack it directly ..too much resources for too little a bang

I would agree, except for the fact that if they decide the US is too hard to attack, and they have all the supplies here, what do you think they are going to do?

And don't try to make it seem like I am the only one who thinks like this. A poll last year showed that 42% of Canadians thought a major terrorist attack would occur on Canadian soil within the next 2 years. The clock is ticking. I don't want to die because everyone has convinced themselves that terrorists only hate the US.

 

[GhostFox]

More specifically then, how many attempted Al-Qaeda attacks have there been?

Many, though specific examples with be hard to find becuase most of the information is not available to the public. In a CSIS report discussing the CSIS Act in May of 2000, it states "The threat to Canada from international terrorism is forever changing, and may yet become more serious. Canada must continue its efforts to thwart terrorist activities—both those directed at Canada, and those targeting foreign states from our territory."

http://www.csis-scrs.gc.ca/eng/miscdocs/200004_e.html

Although it states no specific incidents, it specifically refers to CSIS thwarting terrorists threats aimed at Canada. And this is before 9/11. From what I have heard CSIS prevents about 13 terrorist "events" per year. Now this doesn't nessicarily mean attacks, but can be anything ranging from smuggling in terrorists to weapons aquisitions etc. And you could claim that most of the actions are intended to hurt the US. And you'd probably be right. But what happens when they miss one aimed at Canada?

 

[Bodacious]

WTc One wasn't a successful attack. An attack, yes, but successful, absolutly not. That attack had virtually no impact on the US except for news outlets, 6 deaths and their famlies, and some structural damage. A couple Terrorism's goals are to bring about political change and cause econimic distress. None of those were met.

More specifically then, how many attempted Al-Qaeda attacks have there been?

The shoebomber was stopped, for one. Jose padilla was stopped, for another. Oh, and some people in new york wanting to buy a SAM missile. There is 3.

 

[CptStern]

I would agree, except for the fact that if they decide the US is too hard to attack, and they have all the supplies here, what do you think they are going to do?

it makes absolutely no sense ..why? for what reason? why not attack one of the coalition countries ...the criteria you're using can be applied to any country in the world

And don't try to make it seem like I am the only one who thinks like this. A poll last year showed that 42% of Canadians thought a major terrorist attack would occur on Canadian soil within the next 2 years. The clock is ticking. I don't want to die because everyone has convinced themselves that terrorists only hate the US.

you missed half the poll results:

"However, when asked specifically about the border, 46.1 per cent of respondents said they thought existing security measures "represent a good balance between the safety of all Canadians and the rights of immigrants in Canada......Another 42.5 per cent of people interviewed in the Leger Marketing survey said the measures "do not go far enough to ensure our safety," while 4.5 per cent said they go too far."


well according to this canadians want less to do with the US since 9/11

"After the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, only 13 per cent of Canadians surveyed wanted ties with the U.S. to be more distant. A recent survey puts that number at 35 per cent. "


also according to this poll, most canadians feel the war in iraq increased terrorism

"Forty-eight per cent of Canadians surveyed said they were worried about the threat of terrorism at home, compared to 39 per cent who held such fears in February. Roughly two-thirds - 67 per cent - said the military action in Iraq had raised the terrorist threat worldwide, up from 53 per cent in February.

"It's clear that as the perception in Canada grows that terrorism is escalating as opposed to being extinguished in the region, Canadians own personal sense of vulnerability in the world is increasing as well" said Ipsos-Reid Vice-President John Wright."

 

[GhostFox]

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...erg2004.pdf+terrorist+threats+to+Canada&hl=en

"Winnipeg, Manitoba - According to a major new survey conducted across Canada’s seven largest cities, fewer than three in ten urban Canadians feel their city is prepared to withstand a terrorist attack. This finding emerged from a comprehensive survey of 1800urban adults conducted by Probe Research Inc. of Winnipeg, Manitoba and CameronStrategy Inc. of Calgary, Alberta. Other research results show most urban Canadians looking to the federal or to their provincial government for leadership on crisis management. These results are part of Urban Rule 2004: Charting the New Role of Canadian Cities. Urban Rule is a wide-ranging analysis of the attitudes and behavioursof those residing in Canada’s largest cities.

Across Canada’s major cities, concern about their ability to deal with a terrorist threat was most pronounced in Vancouver – the site of the 2010 Summer Olympic Games. In that city, only 25 percent of those polled said Vancouver was equipped to address aterrorist attack while fully two-thirds (66%) felt the city was “not very” (38%) or “not at all”(28%) prepared for such an occurrence. Residents of Ottawa and Calgary (38%) weremost confident their city could deal with a terrorist threat although, even in those twocentres, bare majorities (50% and 51% respectively) do not believe their cities’ areprepared in this regard."

 

[GhostFox]

it makes absolutely no sense ..why? for what reason? why not attack one of the coalition countries ...the criteria you're using can be applied to any country in the world

Because Canada is #5 of the countries Al-Qaeda rates as the highest targets, and of those 5 , numbers #1-4 have already been attacked. Which leaves Canada the odd man out. I wouldn't bet on that lasting forever.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Well, if you're looking for proof of safety, you're not going to find it. You can't prove a negative like this one.

The only way to guage Canada's safety would be to weigh current security measures against the amount of attacks they have prevented compared the amount they let through. Otherwise you're chasing ghosts.

And, currently, there is no reason to beleive Canada is in danger. We have recieved no threats, no ultamatims. There's no sign of any terrorist attacks on our assets overseas. Basically, even if we are an eventual target, there is no sign of it happening any time in the near future.

It took over twenty years for Al-Qaeda to build up to attack their main target, with plenty of warning signs and direct threats. And even then the attacks, although horrific, were minor on the larger scale of things.
We frankly have more to be afraid of from auto accidents and cigarette smoke than from terrorism.

So caution is warranted, but for now we are probably safe enough.

 

[CptStern]

The shoebomber was stopped, for one.

wasnt a member of any terrorist group

Jose padilla was stopped, for another.

Padilla was part of group that were operating out of Morrocco, he may have been arrested in chicago but he wasnt a trusted member of al queda

"And what has almost certainly been lost in the cacophony of a news week dominated by Jose Padilla, is the recognition that a major blow has been struck against al-Qaeda — in far-off Morocco. "

Oh, and some people in new york wanting to buy a SAM missile. There is 3.

like this guy?

 

[GhostFox]

We have recieved no threats

Al-Qaeda saying that "We will destroy destroy the infidel Canadians" etc. and putting Canada on the list of top 5 targets doesn't constitute a threat to you? What does then?

 

[kirovman]

I agree, all of the above, but foreign policy is the main one, and the cause of the others.

I feel safe from terrorists of this nature in the UK, because I don't live in London.(other places are hardly worth attacking, and I think if they really could have attacked us they would have by now).

I don't let the notion of the extremely rare event happening worry me - I might as well worry about being hit by a car when I cross the road.
Terrors just been hyped up after 9/11 because it was such a big event, but truth is a lot of things happened before 9/11, 9/11 wasn't the day the terrorist manifesto was published.

UK is actually safer (looking at statistical figures) in recent years because of the IRA threat being scaled down.

I'm far more worried about crime, and even worry about tsunami victims. I am not so worried about terrorism, it's the new communism if you ask me, a buzzword to describe the vaguely defined enemy.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Al-Qaeda saying that "We will destroy destroy the infidel Canadians" etc. and putting Canada on the list of top 5 targets doesn't constitute a threat to you? What does then?

Well, they say that about every western country, to be honest.

And since they really did a shitty job of attacking their #1 target, #5 isn't at much risk. Remember, security hasn't gone unchanged since 9/11. Canada is much safer than it was before, and even then we were safe enough to never have been attacked. The threat of terrorist attack on Canada has gone down, if anything. Especially since we stayed out of Iraq.

 

[GhostFox]

I am not saying I actively worry about terrorism, or that it affects my life. Nor do I think it should. I worry that people completely ignore the threat and therefore invite a terrorist attack. I think the chances of my city getting attacked are very small. But I don't want other cities to be attacked either simply because people have become too complacent about it. I fear for Europe too, where the prevalent notion is that the US is the only country that needs to fear terrorism. If people in the govt. start thinking like that, we will all wake up one morning to see the Louvre burning.

 

[CptStern]

I am not saying I actively worry about terrorism, or that it affects my life. Nor do I think it should. I worry that people completely ignore the threat and therefore invite a terrorist attack. I think the chances of my city getting attacked are very small.

that's not what you said before:

"I feel less safe living in Canada then living in the US."

But I don't want other cities to be attacked either simply because people have become too complacent about it. I fear for Europe too, where the prevalent notion is that the US is the only country that needs to fear terrorism. If people in the govt. start thinking like that, we will all wake up one morning to see the Louvre burning.

oh come on!! europe has been dealing with terrorism far longer than the US ...all the way back to ww1 and even before that. They are far more prepared to deal with terrorism than the US ever was ..just go to europe ..every single country that has local terrorism has armed gaurds everywhere ..when I was in spain with my cousin (my parents are from spain) I asked him why the soldiers were in every city we went to and why did they look like they were ready to shoot someone ..he said it's because of terrorist attacks ..he also said that if I were to run towards the soldier he'd shoot me dead ...and check my body for weapons afterwards

 

[GhostFox]

that's not what you said before:

"I feel less safe living in Canada then living in the US."

And I do. But that is not an active fear. I don't wake up every day thinking "I'm going to get blown up today." But I do think "Canada is the next logical target". Just like my chances are hundreds of times higher getting shot here then if I lived in a small town somewhere. I can logically recognize that, without fearing for my life everytime I step outside.

I don't understand why people equate understanding the danger with living in total fear of it.


EDIT: Europe has always been well-prepared. And yet they still suffered an attack in Spain. Even if your guard is up you are still at risk. If you guard slips just a little bit...

 

[Bodacious]

wasnt a member of any terrorist group

Terrorism is terrorism.

Here is a good read on the shoebomber.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Reid

On January 30, 2003, he was found guilty on terrorism charges at a federal court in Boston, Massachusetts and sentenced to life in prison. During the sentencing hearing he openly stated that he was an Islamic fundamentalist and declared himself an enemy of the United States.

Padilla was part of group that were operating out of Morrocco, he may have been arrested in chicago but he wasnt a trusted member of al queda

"And what has almost certainly been lost in the cacophony of a news week dominated by Jose Padilla, is the recognition that a major blow has been struck against al-Qaeda — in far-off Morocco. "

Maybe you need to read that article a little more.

Padilla got some instruction in bomb-making, and some cash. And al-Qaeda leaders reportedly discussed with him schemes ranging from "dirty bombs" to blowing up gas stations — discussions which some captive terrorist leaders appear to have shared with U.S. agents.

Sounds to me like he got a lot of help from Al-Qaeda.

Here is a good read on Padilla:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jose_Padilla

like this guy?

No, like these guys,

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,128088,00.html