Poll: Why was the US attacked on 9/11?

[Mechagodzilla]

I am not saying I actively worry about terrorism, or that it affects my life. Nor do I think it should. I worry that people completely ignore the threat and therefore invite a terrorist attack. I think the chances of my city getting attacked are very small. But I don't want other cities to be attacked either simply because people have become too complacent about it. I fear for Europe too, where the prevalent notion is that the US is the only country that needs to fear terrorism. If people in the govt. start thinking like that, we will all wake up one morning to see the Louvre burning.

Well, the main thing is that it doesn't really matter if people are afraid of terrorism or not. That doesn't help fight terrorism at all. It just makes people unhappy.

It's the government, and the security organizations of our country that actually need to be concerned, and all that matters is that they are doing their best. Which they probably are, since they are paid to worry about terror so that we don't have to.

We are also the closest allies of the most terror-safe nation on Earth, I'd warrant, and we work with them now more than ever in matters of homeland security. We now know tons more about how Al-Qaeda operates, and how to fight them. Our airlines are more safe, and our police are more vigilant. And with all this extra preparation, there has still been no more sign of threat than before.

So there is honestly no reason to to be more concerned about terror than you were in August of 2001.


Edit: And Bodacious, when I asked what attempted attacks there have been, I meant against Canada, since Canada's (and other non-US nations') level of risk is the topic of the thread. The shoebomber and the rest are a tad OT.

 

[GhostFox]

Well, the main thing is that it doesn't really matter if people are afraid of terrorism or not. That doesn't help fight terrorism at all. It just makes people unhappy.

It's the government, and the security organizations of our country that actually need to be concerned, and all that matters is that they are doing their best.

I agree, but I don't think you have to equate vigilance with fear. I don't think people should be fearful of muslims, but if you see an Arab guy videotaping your nuclear power plant for a couple hours maybe it is time to make a phone call. And I think vigilant people can make those distinctions. I wish that some airport staff members were more vigilant on 9/11 and there would be 3,000 more people in the world.

 

[kirovman]

Europe has always been well-prepared. And yet they still suffered an attack in Spain. Even if your guard is up you are still at risk. If you guard slips just a little bit...

Spain always gets attacks, eg Madrid today.

Mostly from Eta.

And UK has had terrorist attacks plentifully in the past, from the IRA, eg Birmingham pub bombings.

And remember the Pan Am Lockerbie bombing where the 747 got blown out of the sky? And it landed on a town.

Terrorism isn't new, and it doesn't all come from the Middle-East either.

And a long time ago I seem to remember reading from a source, saying the USA government supported the IRA terrorists?

Yet another example of one rule for a government and another rule for the rest of us...

 

[Mechagodzilla]

I agree, but I don't think you have to equate vigilance with fear. I don't think people should be fearful of muslims, but if you see an Arab guy videotaping your nuclear power plant for a couple hours maybe it is time to make a phone call. And I think vigilant people can make those distinctions. I wish that some airport staff members were more vigilant on 9/11 and there would be 3,000 more people in the world.

Airport security staff are governed by the FAA, I'm fairly certain, and their failure to catch the terrorists on Sept. 11th was due mostly to not following regulations correctly, and inadequacies in inter-agency intelligence sharing.
Basically, it was a failure of the government, not of the civilian population. After years and years of nothing happening, they let one attack through. And now that hole has been patched.

Nearly 100% of the time, I'm certain, vigilance by the civilian population is uneccessary. Maybe even counter-productive.
When you've got untrained individuals encouraged to report things, you can bet there'll just be more false alarms.

 

[CptStern]

Terrorism is terrorism.

Here is a good read on the shoebomber.

thanks, I watched a bbc documentary about him. He wasnt a muslim till he went to jail ..and even then he wasnt a radical till after he left ..his cell mate, also a jailbird convert, said Richard was more than a little crazy and paranoid

Maybe you need to read that article a little more.

hmmm maybe you should:


"Within hours of Ashcroft's announcement, administration officials were pointing out that Padilla had no radioactive material or any other bomb-making equipment. Nor had he chosen a target, or formulated a plan. And while his connections with al-Qaeda operatives were never in doubt, he suddenly began to look a lot more like the accused shoe-bomber Richard Reid (i.e. another disaffected ex-con from the West desperate to get in with al-Qaeda) than like the sophisticated professionals who put together September 11.

Details, of course, are sketchy, but it appears that Padilla converted to Islam after a prison spell in Florida, and eventually made his way to Afghanistan or Pakistan to make common cause with al-Qaeda. According to the government's account, he approached them with the idea of detonating a "dirty bomb" in a U.S. city, and they obliged by teaching him to wire a bomb. The impression, in the government's own account, is of a former street hoodlum desperate to join a new gang — and being kept at arm's length. An outsider taught to build a bomb (what's not to like, for al-Qaeda, about a U.S. passport holder asking to be taught how to kill his countrymen?) but not necessarily integrated into the organization he was desperate to join. The fact that the authorities arrested Padilla immediately on his arrival in Chicago rather than following him around in the hope that he would reveal al-Qaeda operatives already on U.S. soil says volumes about how little may have known about the organization. "

Sounds to me like he got a lot of help from Al-Qaeda.

"According to the government's account, he approached them with the idea of detonating a "dirty bomb" in a U.S. city, and they obliged by teaching him to wire a bomb. The impression, in the government's own account, is of a former street hoodlum desperate to join a new gang — and being kept at arm's length. An outsider taught to build a bomb (what's not to like, for al-Qaeda, about a U.S. passport holder asking to be taught how to kill his countrymen?) but not necessarily integrated into the organization he was desperate to join. The fact that the authorities arrested Padilla immediately on his arrival in Chicago rather than following him around in the hope that he would reveal al-Qaeda operatives already on U.S. soil says volumes about how little may have known about the organization."

No, like these guys,

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,128088,00.html

hmmmm fox"news" ...nuff said ..I searched around and found some other very interesting tidbits ...did you know one of them was actually a fbi informant? ...the government set up a sting (entrapment) and 2 leaders of an albany mosque took the bait ...Oh btw did you now the target was a UN pakistani ambassador? not an american target .....hmmmm sounds like
Orlando Bosch ..who attempted the exact same thing when he fired a rocket launcher at a polish freighter in miami harbour. he got a pardon for his troubles

here's a long list of his terrorist activities




btw: look what I found when I did a search on orlando bosch! my own post ..hehehehhe ..first link

 

[Sainku]

hmmmm fox"news" ...nuff said

Funny how you dismiss his link because it from fox news and then go on to quote several biased sources yourself.

I will add Globalfreepress.com and independence.net to my list of sites never to listen to news from.

 

[CptStern]

Funny how you dismiss his link because it from fox news and then go on to quote several biased sources yourself.

I will add Globalfreepress.com and independence.net to my list of sites never to listen to news from.

ah but the difference here is that I read the fox"news" link, did you read all of the links I provided?

 

[Sainku]

Yes, and a lot of the stories on the homepages too. Just for kicks.


Oh, this headline was one of my favorites.
Threataganda : US expert: Bush manipulated NKorea intelligence like he did in Iraq.


However my point is small and off topic, your links could be telling the truth so continue your argument.


Edit: To correct myself I didnt read ALL of the links you provided when I posted, I missed the one from the world socialist website but I have read it to now.

 

[KoreBolteR]

Al-Qaeda was jealous.

 

[KoreBolteR]

ah but the difference here is that I read the fox"news" link, did you read all of the links I provided?

ALL news is biased

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Al-Qaeda was jealous.

Why do you keep saying that? That's not thier motivation at all.

 

[DEATH eVADER]

I'm a conspiracy Theorist so I would have to say that the US government attacked itself so they would have a reason to go into Afghanistan. However Bush was only pushing it when he decided to invade Iraq

 

[Hercules331]

Terrorists attacked us because they hate everything about us. So I voted other. They hate that we arent their same religion, they hate that we have freedom in out country, they hate how much power and money we have, they hate how well our government works, and they hate that we try to help others.

 

[CptStern]

bwahahahahahahahahha ...I have some swamp land for sale if you're interested

 

[MarcoPollo]

Alright guys, if you've seen some of my other posts you probably think I took english lessons from a monkey that fell out of a high tree onto his head; well I'm going to use punctuation OMFG!!!! So anyways, I think that the main reason for the terrorists attacking us is the same reason that the Nazi massacred millions of innocent people, because they are extreme racists/crazy asses. Also, to anyone that thinks they attacked us is because we are " evil " , and I know there are some out there, WE are not evil, SADDAM HUSSEIN is evil, a SERIAL RAPIST is evil. If you think that Bush is stupid or what ever I don't care, that is a matter of opinion but evil is a VERY harsh word reserved for actuall evil doers.

 

[burner69]

Terrorists attacked us because they hate everything about us. So I voted other. They hate that we arent their same religion, they hate that we have freedom in out country, they hate how much power and money we have, they hate how well our government works, and they hate that we try to help others.

Lmao, it's like I can hear FOX news echoing in here.

Stop spouting crap Bush tells you, do a little research and you might find a shocking answer... you're being fed a load of lies.

 

[MarcoPollo]

and where would we get this REAL information?? Mother Jones??? ROFL

 

[GhostFox]

you're being fed a load of lies.

I find it interesting that you immediately refer to Fox News and bias when the only proof you have of FN bias is that some liberal told you so. Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to parrot either?

 

[burner69]

WE are not evil, SADDAM HUSSEIN is evil, a SERIAL RAPIST is evil. If you think that Bush is stupid or what ever I don't care, that is a matter of opinion but evil is a VERY harsh word reserved for actuall evil doers.

Like actual evil doers (I love that phrase, "evil doers" *screams*) who sell WMD to..erm... Saddam. And other countries with just lovely glowing human rights records. Oh, and over militarised countries, sell them some weapons too eh?

How about evil doers who invade other countries based on lies? (See Nolimits recent thread about the flase case for war). Imagine if North Korea invaded India saying they had WMD, killed several thousnad innocent people then said "Actually, sh*t sorry, they didn't have any afterall, sorry!" There'd be an outcry, as it stands Bush just grins and says "Iran! Weapons! Oooo big scary weapons, we must invade and take these horrible weapons.... yes just like Iraq...."

Do I have to go on?
Sorry, it's just that I hate these double standards.

 

[burner69]

I find it interesting that you immediately refer to Fox News and bias when the only proof you have of FN bias is that some liberal told you so. Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to parrot either?

No, actually the Fox news was a half-joke, based around the many articles I've read on their website. Just as I never commented on Al Jazeera until I'd read their news stories.

And are you denying that what the person said is WRONG? And are you denying that Fox news broadcasts reports that would make it sound like they were RIGHT?

 

[GhostFox]

I am saying that I have never read a Fox News article that was factually incorrect. Or seen a segment where they outright lie to promote GWB.

Do they have many very conservative friendly commentators? Yes.

Can you watch regular news segments (non-commentary) on Fox News and CNN and get the same exact information? Yes.

 

[burner69]

and where would we get this REAL information?? Mother Jones??? ROFL

No, the reason Osama Bin Laden gave.
Not once have Al Quaeda said they want to attack because they "don't like us helping eachother out". It's always been about ceasing foreign policy in countries it is damaging, it's been about releasing prisoners that the US are detaining without charge, it's been about getting the US to leave countries alone.

 

[Absinthe]

GhostFox, I advise you to read this.

http://www.turnoffyourtv.com/networks/foxnews/foxnews.html

 

[burner69]

I am saying that I have never read a Fox News article that was factually incorrect. Or seen a segment where they outright lie to promote GWB.

Do they have many very conservative friendly commentators? Yes.

Can you watch regular news segments (non-commentary) on Fox News and CNN and get the same exact information? Yes.

Oh come off it, the ones I've read have given "facts" yes.

FACT: US IS UNDER THREAT FROM TERRORISTS!!! Yes many terrorists have been arrested in America, confirming that the war on terrorism must go on.

Fact they choose to leave out: Hardly any of the people arrested get charged, they are released because there is absolutely to evidence to hold them.
For christ's sake they arrested some students who supported Cashmere for paintballing, saying they were training to attack America.

 

[MarcoPollo]

Ok burner I just LOVE how you rationalized calling Bush evil It was AMAZING how you totally took something and put it out of context. It was totally awesome when you implied that Bush is as bad as kim jong il. But burner would you like to know my FAVORITE part??? It was when you showed evidence of you're staments and showed your source.....wait that DIDN'T happen??? Are you serious? I can't believe someone calling Bush evil didn't give evidence of these evil actions!

 

[MarcoPollo]

^^^sarcasm ROFL

 

[GhostFox]

I'll pay anyone here $100 dollars if they can prove that Fox News purposefully reported factually incorrect information becuase of their supposed political views.

Anyone?

 

[burner69]

Ok burner I just LOVE how you rationalized calling Bush evil It was AMAZING how you totally took something and put it out of context. It was totally awesome when you implied that Bush is as bad as kim jong il. But burner would you like to know my FAVORITE part??? It was when you showed evidence of you're staments and showed your source.....wait that DIDN'T happen??? Are you serious? I can't believe someone calling Bush evil didn't give evidence of these evil actions!

Cheers buddy.
Are you saying I'm lying?

Weapon sales, looks like a dodgy site but check it's sources:
http://www.holesinthesky.com/weapon-sales2002.html

And do I really need to show you that we were lied to to get into Iraq? Do you still believe that Saddam WAS linked to 9/11, that he DID have WMDs, that he WAS going to use them against the west, and that he COULD do that in 45mins?

Do I have to find those quotes then show you the news reports, studies and independant research done that shows it was all a load of crap? Really? Do I have to?

 

[burner69]

I'll pay anyone here $100 dollars if they can prove that Fox News purposefully reported factually incorrect information becuase of their supposed political views.

Anyone?

I'll take that on. But I won't ask for $100, it'd be robbery... plus we'll never agree and end up arguing... but worth a shot eh?

 

[MarcoPollo]

hmmm im not so sure about your source but at least you tried to find something....anyways sorry I flammed, because I dont care if you think bush is whatever you think he is except when people compare him to saddam and people of that nature its just not right.

 

[burner69]

hmmm im not so sure about your source but at least you tried to find something....anyways sorry I flammed, because I dont care if you think bush is whatever you think he is except when people compare him to saddam and people of that nature its just not right.

No worries. Sorry I was a bit of an aggressive p*ick.
But seriously, look at the number of people US foreign policy kills, and compare that to Saddam, it's a 'different' sort of wrongdoing, dressed up a little bit, but many people are being killed. To not draw a comparison is perhaps a little foolish.

 

[CptStern]

I'll pay anyone here $100 dollars if they can prove that Fox News purposefully reported factually incorrect information becuase of their supposed political views.

Anyone?

here ya go

compare it to this far more sedate headline from the same day

paypal will do, no cheques please


oh ...btw how do you know fox"news" isnt impartial? ..if you really are canadian you wouldnt have access to fox"news"

 

[MarcoPollo]

But seriously, look at the number of people US foreign policy kills, and compare that to Saddam, it's a 'different' sort of wrongdoing, dressed up a little bit, but many people are being killed. To not draw a comparison is perhaps a little foolish.

Yes, there have been casualties BUT I think what you are saying is a little extreme.

 

[Absinthe]

Yes, there have been casualties BUT I think what you are saying is a little extreme.

Considering what the casualties are a result of, perhaps not.

I don't think it's correct to call Bush evil. He's dumb, incompetent, and twisted, but not evil. Doesn't diminish the impact of his actions though.

 

[burner69]

Yes, there have been casualties BUT I think what you are saying is a little extreme.

Well Saddam could just say: "Well there have been some casualties in my regime" *shrugs*. No, can't have double standards. Stern will be glad to tell you about the US purposefully destroying Iraqi civilians water supply, killing half a million people.

That's one of many.

EDIT: I tend to side with Absinthes view on Bush being evil. Very few people are 'evil' - most that are made out to be aren't, and are just being twisted by the media.

 

[Hercules331]

You guys are all arguing over articles that you have seen on the internet and shit. None of you have first hand experience. I read an article that said this! Well I read an article that said that!! None of you obviously know what youre talking about and you are only backing up what you have seen, not what you know. And if you dont live in the United States then you cannot say shit about its "evilness", terrible politics, or how stupid we all are, because the only stuff you have to back yourself up is from the f*cking media!!

 

[Tr0n]

You guys are all arguing over articles that you have seen on the internet and shit. None of you have first hand experience. I read an article that said this! Well I read an article that said that!! None of you obviously know what youre talking about and you are only backing up what you have seen, not what you know. And if you dont live in the United States then you cannot say shit about its "evilness", terrible politics, or how stupid we all are, because the only stuff you have to back yourself up is from the f*cking media!!

*points to his location*

Kthxbai.

...and do you have first hand experience mr.hercules?

 

[GhostFox]

if you really are canadian you wouldnt have access to fox"news"

It is called Satilite. Though you'll be happy to know that it is on it's way to digital cable as well.

Oh, you your example was laughable. Let me give you an example of a factually biased story.

Ex.

CNN: US Invades Iraq (correct)

Fox News: Iraq Invades US territory, Bush asks them nicely to leave, does not want any trouble. (false)

Do you see the difference between that and a difference in writing style containing the same facts?

 

[VirusType2]

Its all a ploy to get the world to hate the US

So you think that the terrorist threat in Canada is simply from US actions?

They will pull any trick in the book to get the world to hate the US, but thats just it, if they attack another country, its for this reason, becuase they obviously hate the US the most.

They are smart

It's all a ploy to get america mad enough to be foolish enough to get the entire world to hate the US

Its all a ploy to get the world to rally against, and hate the US

They hate anyone not muslim.
They hate women having power
They hate america
They hate George Bush
They hate shavers lol
joke* They hate Tall buildings?
Osamas parents were architects

They will not stop untill we are dead, and they bring this to the table, now, we must not stop untill they cannot kill us, at any cost.
If you have a choice to kill or be killed. I think the choice is obvious. LETS KICK SOME ASS!! IVE GOT MY GUNS RIGHT HERE
___________________________________
In the future, the world may be run by a handfull of countries.

-I really don't understand whats everyones problem with Canada, its like the running joke in US to bash Canada.

Canada is next door, you can smoke weed there, and some good rock bands come from there.

Leave Canada out of it.

The French on the other hand, want to go AGAINST the US in everything, but as soon as Rice goes there and talk to them, now the french "want to be equal partners with IRAQ", but we paid for it with our blood! (other countries too)
But they want half the credit for Freeing the Iraqi people.
WTF

The French are a bunch of Cowards and I would like to spit In a french mans eye

I hate them more and more untill someone can explain to me why I should not.

US: Virginia

 

[Hercules331]

*points to his location*

Kthxbai.

...and do you have first hand experience mr.hercules?

Im from the US, whos side are you on anyway? What does Kthxbai mean? Since Im in the Army I do have some first hand experience, I know what is going on in Iraq, I know what our troops are dying for, I know how dedicated the US military is, and I know that we are helping people. And I live in the US so I have more first hand experience then the British punks on the forums. Does that answer your question mr. tron?