Rantings of a very tired cross country runner

[FCBob]

I was gonna post this in the thread about the citadel and why it is digging but the more my train of thought went on I got so off topic that i decided not to hijack somebodies thread. As is in the title i'm very tired and I did not read the "why is the citadel digging" thread so if any of this has been posted already please tell me so i can shut up before i make an *** of myself.
I was first trying to adress the mystery of why the citadel was digging but in a round about way I started thinking about what motives the combine would have to keep up this relentless interuniversal planet hopping campaigne. The easiest answer to explain why the citadel is digging is for resources but that's too predictable and I don't believe that the writers at valve would link all this caos cause by the combine just to some classic war of the worlds senario. Then I took into acount that on each of the planets/universes the combine takes they turn the indigenous species into slaves and soldiers. If it were just for resources they would just have slaves and maybe some indigenous soldiers to keep the slaves in line and maybe to help with the subduing of other worlds as we know they do. But they produce massive armies using the indegenous species. They do so so much that not a single combine (at least as far as we know for sure) has had to put his self on the line.
Thinking this I started thinking that there might be another far larger force, at least large enough to have the combine worried, out in the universes doing the exact same thing, building up resources and armies for an impending conflict of biblical proportions between the two super powers. If that's true then my theory on G-man that I posted is gonna need some rethinking but hey, that's what theories are for. I still beleive that G-man is as I described him but he is probably of that other Interuniversal superpower doing some cold war like espionage, and all earth is to them is a intergalactic Vietnam conflict. If all this is so half life 3 could be much grander and on a much wider scale than previously thought. Whatever the case i'm sure it'll be good.

But hey, as the title says all this is is the rantings of a very tired cross country runner.

 

[Laivasse]

Your idea of the Combine is identical to mine. I don't think they go around looking for anything as mundane as resources, but instead just do it to swell their ranks and become an even more unstoppable force, like you say.

I hadn't previously considered the idea that they were doing it just to square up to G-man's people, whoever they are. That's an interesting one...

Edit- I've thought a bit more about this and it's thrown up some completely implausible but really cool ideas. Before, everyone tended to think that it was the G-Man who went around fighting the Combine. What if it's actually the Combine going around fighting G-man - or rather, the force behind G-Man?

What if the whole BM/HL1 scenario was the G-bosses trying to make inroads into Earth, or Xen, or both at the same time? And then the Combine turn up and prevent it the job from being completed - in effect, SAVING us? After all, who knows how terrible it would be under G-rule, his side,if he has one,is a completely unknown quantity...

And then naturally the G-Man's next obvious target is the Combine on Earth - kicking them back into touch, "I was here first!", kind of thing. So effectively Earth is just the Twister mat upon which 2 grotequely obese and sweaty men are knotting their bodies in combat....worth considering.

 

[Edcrab]

Just at the centre of a power struggle between two opposing forces... hmm.

Can't say I've never thought of it like that, but the idea that the G-man represents a power just as bad (if not worse) than the Combine is an intriguing concept, not forgetting Gabe's ancient remarks to the effect that "one side is wrong" and the other is "really wrong"...

 

[FCBob]

I figured people have already thought up the part about what the combine hopes to gain out of these planets or somthing to that effect. My main point was that there could be something much larger going on here I.E. a very powerful rival to the combine which the combine are preparing to do battle against. I don't know about you guys but something cataclysmic like that would be friggin' awesome for hl 3.

opps never mind, i was reading the combine-xen connection thread and i think it was narc who had posted somthing that g-man could be apart of another force. Not entirely like my theory but close enough that this ain't too special. Oh well.

 

[Laivasse]

Just at the centre of a power struggle between two opposing forces... hmm.

Can't say I've never thought of it like that, but the idea that the G-man represents a power just as bad (if not worse) than the Combine is an intriguing concept, not forgetting Gabe's ancient remarks to the effect that "one side is wrong" and the other is "really wrong"...

Yeah that quote occurred back to me when I was editing my post. Until now I've never thought of a scenario where it really fit in. Could it be that Laidlaw's not flying so blind as we think...? :O :thumbs:

 

[Steel.Inferno]

I think the Combine are something like the Borg from Star Trek (though not as evil)

Borg Queen = advisor

regular borg would be elites and soldiers, modified humans. Every time they assimilate a race, they become that much stronger. Therefore, they are nearly unstoppable.

Thanks for bringing up that quote, I totally forgot about it. Originally I thought he was talking about the Resistance being "wrong" and Combine being "really wrong"

But I don't see how the Resistance is wrong in what they are doing, without the Combine actually being for the better of humanity.

 

[gabriel]

what the hell is a borg?

 

[Asknoone]

It is from Star Trek.

 

[Flyingdebris]

thats a very interesting point. From what i hear of laidlaws books, (i haven't gotten around to reading them unfortunately) he just might end up adding something really bizarre to throw us for a loop.

The G-man as a representative of an equally powerful rival to the combine theory is a very interesting one indeed.

 

[Laivasse]

thats a very interesting point. From what i hear of laidlaws books, (i haven't gotten around to reading them unfortunately) he just might end up adding something really bizarre to throw us for a loop.

The G-man as a representative of an equally powerful rival to the combine theory is a very interesting one indeed.

Yeah, I think it's a corker. Thus far it's the only thing someone's put forward that would really make me feel satisfied if it turned up in HL3 - and now that we've hit on it it stands even less chance of turning up ;( Imagine first discovering the true nature of G-man and his backers and thinking "crap...we would have been better off under the Combine!" That would be a cool twist.

 

[Jandor]

It's a really cool idea. One that I like.

 

[FCBob]

hey help me out here. i've read posts in other threads saying something about race X. please interpret that for me cause if it's similar to what i'm thinking of i'm gonna brace for flaming cause people aren't taking too kindly to race X whatever it is.

 

[Edcrab]

"Race X" are the new aliens added by Gearbox in the official Half-Life expansion Opposing Force. It's thought that- although offically canon according to Laidlaw himself- they aren't going to play a part in future storylines, merely existing as a neat excuse to throw in some more enemy varieties.

Personally I quite liked them, but I accept that a lot of other players found them not in keeping with the "feel" of the other aliens- almost garish or cartoony to some people, but they're (a) (probably) an entirely different species and (b) not alone- you could argue that even the original Xenians could've looked a bit more gritty, in keeping with Valve's original concept art. Not that I would.

Basically, people are either happy or apathetic over the fact that they're never likely to seen again.

 

[FCBob]

Laivasse your a genius! Or at least you've given me an idea. Now i'm just grasping at straws here and some of this conflicts but just roll with me. You were saying somthing about g-man and the bm incident that g-man was just making inroads for his force. Thinking like this black mesa is a perfect target! First be reminded that black mesa is a MILITARY facility, which house a large number (atleast from what we can tell with some of the scenes from hl1) of Nuclear devices, which could be used effectivly against any invasion force due to the influx of humans to city's after the resonance cascade, which g-man would've surely predicted. Secondly, g-mans employers which i'm guessing is this third party if you will, probably detected the humans simple portal technology because it's tunneling probably gives off some ott of signature. they then used the image of the g-man, which from a whole seprate theory i've got on g-man i'm concluding he's just some kind of manifestation of these higher beings thinking but in this thread i don't feel like debating that, to cause the resonance cascade. He needs to do this because in the game half life 2, it's safe to say that planet to planet transport is reliant on teleportation not space travel or whatnot.

So maybe G-man was preparing the way for his forces, whether they be good or bad. But then, why cause the resonance cascade with the Xen relay if the combine controlled the nihilanth as many people believe? And if this third party really did control nihilanth then why did they not invade before the combine. Maybe G-man was not trying to coax them into causing the resonance cascade, but the exact opposite? Maybe he knew that by doing that the combine would have a gateway to earth. Somewhere i read that Breen had been in contact with the Combine some time before all this went down. I believe that it was Breen who under combine orders, caused the resonance cascade and the image of G-man was used to act as high up BM brass (the black mesa breif case that you only see in hl1, in hl2 it's just a plain ol' breif case) and STOP the resonance cascade, that's why he would be argueing with the scientist. And that would explain why he leads and helps Gordon get to the lambda center, tunnel through to xen, and destroy the nihilanth, which i still believe is combine controlled. Impressed by the resourcefullness of one person they preserved him to a latter time to be a pawn and deliver humantiy out of the frying pan of the combine and into the fire of this third party (pardon the cliche).

Another note to add, maybe Breen knew about this third party, but this is grasping at straws. At the end when he says Freeman is a fine pawn to those who control him. This immediately indicates he knows much more about this whole mess than anybody Human. How would he know about the motivation for the exploits of Dr. Gordon Freeman unless the combine homeworld has informed of the situation.

This is kinda going out on a limb on a lot of this so feel free to pick it apart or add things as you see fit. Now me go sleep....

 

[Flyingdebris]

you know, this theory does fit in rather well. it would explain why the gman says the borderworld is now under "our" control in the end of the first hl.

That Xen was claimed by whatever force the gman represented following the death of Mr. Giant Floating Baby.

Also with all the pop up appearances throughout the game. I'm beginning to think that perhaps certain elements of the resistance have had contact with these forces most likely through the gman.

I can easily imagine the gman manipulating events and people so that the Xen world belongs to his superiors, the combine take notice of/enslave earth, the rebels get desperate, the gman gives them an offer they can't refuse, enter gordon,and citadel destroyed.

I get the feeling that in future installments of the hl storyline, gman will bring in his forces that will be welcomed as "liberators" only to find out that they are just as corrupt if not more than the combine.

My guestimate is that since hl1 was about survival, and hl2 was about being a superhero idol, that hl3 will be about being in a warzone between superpowers

 

[Marx! II]

FCBob has a point, but I have never heard anything explaining how Breen was contacted. If they can call a place, can they not warp in, without all the third-party bribery and invasion padding?

 

[FCBob]

well keep in mind that they were using the teleporter before the resonance cascade. Maybe some method of communication with breen could've been established via connection with xen. Now they would've still had to get a larger area to teleport to thus the satalite and destroying black mesa would have still been necsary. But as we see in op force it's da big g-man who blows it up. But then again that could just be because black mesa and it's nuclear arsenal would've been a thorn in either forces side.

 

[Marx! II]

Hm. I still have difficulty believeing that they could find a guy, any guy, contact him, have him be on board with the humanity sans instinct affair, then predict that some scientist will launch the right sattelite and kill the right anther to get the storms working, and then invade and go.
Seems to me they'd cut the foreplay and just citidel us then and there.

 

[Laivasse]

Hm. I still have difficulty believeing that they could find a guy, any guy, contact him, have him be on board with the humanity sans instinct affair, then predict that some scientist will launch the right sattelite and kill the right anther to get the storms working, and then invade and go.
Seems to me they'd cut the foreplay and just citidel us then and there.

Same. Faffing around like that doesn't seem very Combine.

 

[FCBob]

I concede some of that stuff was too far fetched for it's own good. I'm just trying to thinks of specifics on how this theory could possibly fit in with the story line, which is easy for hl2 but hl and it's expansions are a different story. If I was smart i'd shut up and quit diluting a decent theory.

 

[Marx! II]

Hey, any opposing theory that does not include the phrases:
"gman am alien cuz he screws with time"
"CROMBINEPWNXENJUSTLOOKATASSJETANDNILINANTHSEZSLAVES!!!111"
Or of course,
"Laidlaw said the website was the real deal"
Is just fine with me.

 

[Laivasse]

Hey, any opposing theory that does not include the phrases:
"gman am alien cuz he screws with time"
"CROMBINEPWNXENJUSTLOOKATASSJETANDNILINANTHSEZSLAVES!!!111"
Or of course,
"Laidlaw said the website was the real deal"
Is just fine with me.

QFE
9chars

 

[FCBob]

I think my theory may not be as off as i've been thinking. Now throw out all the complicated crap that i threw in with my last major addition to it, what with all the "faffing" as laivasse put it. I replayed the start of hl 1 (i don't have that program to listen to it's sounds files so i gotta do it the old fasion way ) and tried to decern some of the muffled argument between g-man and the scientist. He does very much sound like he is trying to halt the experiment. Now take that into acount with the fact that from some source that I can't put my finger on (somebody please help me out with what that source is) we know that Breen was contacted by the combine before the resonance cascade and my theory seems fit indeed. G-man was trying to halt the combine from using xen forces to soften up earth for bringin' in the citadels. The only thing i need to now is about the "portal storms" and when they could've occured. That's the main missin' piece of this theory so please help me out.

 

[Marx! II]

In fact you've just pointed out what I think is the biggest whole in that theory.
Combine contact Breen. Not a fact, by the way, but now I'm just splitting hairs.
Firstly, how? If they can contact him, why can't they teleport to him? Why do they need him?

And Laivasse, what does all that mean?

 

[Laivasse]

In fact you've just pointed out what I think is the biggest whole in that theory.
Combine contact Breen. Not a fact, by the way, but now I'm just splitting hairs.
Firstly, how? If they can contact him, why can't they teleport to him? Why do they need him?

And Laivasse, what does all that mean?

I agree, that the only problem with the theory is if you start basing it on the Combine contacting Breen beforehand. For a start I don't think they were connected to Xen, but let's not get into that again (I smell the thread-jackers lurking), and the only source for this Breen contact thing is that fragfiles story site - basically one guy who made a guess.

tbh I still think G-man was for the experiment, and he was shutting up any scientists who complained. The impression I get from G-man popping up everywhere is that he is watching his plan unfold, and checking for any uncontrolled elements, Gordon's progress, etc - so to have it all start off with something that wasn't part of his plan seems weird.

So the G-man's backers wanted Xen, and perhaps wanted to get Earth along the way - with Earth so weakened by the portal storms perhaps he was well on his way to getting Earth, except that the Combine showed up and threw a spanner in the works.

This new idea of G-man doesn't actually change very much for me, but it puts a cool new slant on who G-man is, and what he was doing in HL1, what he was doing in HL2, what might happen in HL3, etc...

btw Marx - I was "quoting for emphasis" in that reply.

 

[Asknoone]

Yeah, lets not mention the combine/xen connection here

 

[Angry Lawyer]

You all know my opinions. The Combine are super-efficient - makes little sense for them to waste time with faffing.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Flyingdebris]

its not really faffing, its easier to control a populace with a human face rather than a big green sluggy gasmasked one.

and i think you've pretty much pieced together the hl-hl2 story. it seems plausible enough and fits together almost perfectly. You seem to have done what 1 million nerds could not.

So in recap. Gman's employers want xen and probably earth. He manipulates events to get the resonance cascade to work. The Black mesa incident happens, xen comes under gman employer's control. Combine takes notice of earth sometime during the subsequent portal storms that ravage the world. During 7 hour war, Breen contacts the combine and negotiates surrender terms. World is ruled by combine for some indeterminate amount of time. Gman calls in plan B (gordon) to help fix this situation in the way that only gordon can.

Which once again brings back gabe newell's saying regarding the factions in the story

One side is wrong, but the other is really wrong. It seems like the resistance might be the "really wrong." Wouldn't that be something?

 

[Jandor]

I like it, it may even make me drop my G-Man is human line.

Maybe Xen, G-Man race and the Combine where all preparing to have a massive fight.
G-Man notices Earth is experimenting with Xen.
Xen prepares troops to deal with the minor incursion.
G-Man sets of the Resonance Cascade, causing major disruption on Xen.
Nihilanth, blind to the G-Man's interference, invades Earth.
Gordon kills Nihilanth
G-Man conquers Xen.
Combine use the Portal Storms to invade Earth.
G-Man calls in Gordon, who destroys the Citadel on Earth, disrupting Combine teleport research on Earth.


I just made this up on the spot, probably got more holes than my underwear.

 

[Marx! II]

You could still work a human G-man into all that.

 

[Jandor]

ok, work it.

 

[FCBob]

alright you know how you get really drunk then wake up somewhere that you have no idea where it is or how you got there, like a corn field or somthing. Well maybe g-man partied a little too hard then woke up on the third parties homeworld. Being the partier that he is, g-man decided to roll with and got a job on their planet as minister of keepin' it real. First assingment: make gordon freeman quit being so quite and reserved. :afro:

so g-man could be human.

 

[Laivasse]

alright you know how you get really drunk then wake up somewhere that you have no idea where it is or how you got there, like a corn field or somthing. Well maybe g-man partied a little too hard then woke up on the third parties homeworld. Being the partier that he is, g-man decided to roll with and got a job on their planet as minister of keepin' it real. First assingment: make gordon freeman quit being so quite and reserved. :afro:

so g-man could be human.

So G-man's assignment is to teach Gordon how to par-tay? Intriguing...

 

[Edcrab]

"That'sss right, Mr Freeman... shake your booty... like thisss..."

So the G-man represents a vast alien empire that wants to bring back disco! It all makes sense now- he truly is evil incarnate!

 

[Jandor]

alright you know how you get really drunk then wake up somewhere that you have no idea where it is or how you got there, like a corn field or somthing.

Oh yeh, I'm sure they would have been fond memories .

 

[Marx! II]

ok, work it.

Just a thought, but dig this:

1. After extensive dimensional screwing around, Black Mesa finds Xen, sends teams, nabs animals, crystals, etc.

2. The government finds out, as they sometimes do, and appoints sends G-man, a fellow of some considerable rank is some agency we're not allowed to know of, to oversee happenings within the facility.

3. Having noticed Xen's army, leader, and general civilization, G-man is ordered to take it, for one or more of the million reasons the government would want Xen.

4. He pulls a few strings and arranges for the resonance cascade, warping in pretty much all of Xen's standing army into a tiny facility on Earth. Obviously they won't fight half as well there as on Xen, so the USMC's inexperience fighting them is more or less evened out.

5. Whoops! Thanks to that darned physicist, and plain old fortunes of war, the marines are being taken to the cleaners, slowly but surely. Time for backup plan, equal parts black ops and nuke.

6. While all that's going on, and both sides are more or less drawing off for a while, arrange for physicist to head to Xen, take out anther, Xen is beaten and the next wave of marines can capture it handily.
(Yes, handily does allow for X amount of marines, tanks, trucks, jets, and other wartime gooides to be destroyed, it doesn't mean we didn't mop the floor with 'em.)

7. Skip a few years, some portal storms and things, that's the story. Now for questions.


Q. How does G-man teleport so?
A. All things point to Xen crystals being captured by the time we seem him, and it is not unreasonable to think that a high-ranking overnment fellow can get a device he can use to teleport himself about.

Q. Then if he is serving the government, why does he not help the 7-hour affair? Or at least try?
A. Supposing he could do anything about it? It is my thought that he helps more my directing Freeman about than he ever could while the war was going on.

 

[Edcrab]

Eh, personally I think HL2 helps crumble the last of us who believed G-man to be human (or rather a "real" Government agent- it's quite possible he's human, just not working for humankind).

If his powers are down to secret technology, it doesn't really explain how he keeps on going despite the complete overthrow of humanity's leadership- I don't think the Earth had reached a scientific level- even including Xen-inspired inventions- that would allow a normal human to do that without the Combine detecting him or at least cottoning on.

 

[Marx! II]

Eh, personally I think HL2 helps crumble the last of us who believed G-man to be human (or rather a "real" Government agent- it's quite possible he's human, just not working for humankind).

If his powers are down to secret technology, it doesn't really explain how he keeps on going despite the complete overthrow of humanity's leadership- I don't think the Earth had reached a scientific level- even including Xen-inspired inventions- that would allow a normal human to do that without the Combine detecting him or at least cottoning on.

Actually, it stands to reason that after the events of 1, the state of Earth has no bearing on Gster's teleporting prowess. Remember, it's as likely as anything that he essentially owns Xen at this point.

As for the Combine catching on, that's up for debate. Who's to say they would notice at all?

 

[Fliko]

Like I said before...
Anti-Antlion, to keep the city safe...

 

[MarcoPollo]

Earth is just a combine gas station, It is possibly closer to other galaxies which are otherwise un reachable from the combine planet.